What's overdone in a romance?

I personally do not read alot of romance books but the few I have. If I have an emotional reaction ie find I want to control the outcome or the ongoings to make it more in their favour than I tend to not pick apart the romance.

Edward and Bella - Twilight by Stephenie Meyer
Jacob and Bella - Esclipse by Stephenie Meyer

Jannelle and Daemon - Queen of the Darkness By Anne Bishop

Richard and Kahlan - Sword of Truth by Terry Goodkind

Rose and the Doctor - Doctor who

But I guess if I had to give an example. I guess the weak female , strong male can if not done right can be annoying. But i find if you are placing them in places they have to fight for their love. It tends to become more a focus on their situation rather than their love. It tends to make it stronger , not sure but it was like that in all those and I found it made me want them together all the more.

I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly, because you tread on my dreams.

-- William Butler Yeats

Too much romance in a romance bothers me.

That sounds wierd. I guess what I hate is reading novels where there is no conflict, just a lot of touchy-feely stuff, and the entire plot consists of the characters saying "Oh he/she is such a good kisser, but he/she can't possibly like me. I'm not good enough, etc etc, smut ensues."

I need conflict! Breakups are good. Get the main characters apart and build up that tension! Have something keeping them apart, have them fight to be together.
Characters who are too perfect bother me too, for pretty much the same reasons.

Nano 05: Without A Past- ! 52K
Nano 06: So Much More Than Gold and Finding Alaska- ! 115K!
Nano 07: Made To Be Broken and Jersey Heart - 93K!

i may be crazy
but it just may be a lunatic you're looking for

I LOVE angst. I get high on angst. lmao. So yeah I hate ones where it's just...perfect, no fighting throughout the whole thing.

I read one not too long ago that had too much conflict in it, and not the romantic kind. Stephanie Laurens was the author....she writes too much imagery in her love scenes. a page describing a kiss is just too much omg. hah.

Holding my breath. Waiting to breath. Taking a chance. Praying to Dream.

I agree with the person who used the Twilight/New Moon/Eclipse examples. Overdoing a vampire/werewolf/elf/whatever cliche is sickening. Someone being too beautiful is sickening. And "I'm dangerous, don't come near me" one day, then "mmm i love you alsdjflajdf" the next is just...*nausea*

Also, excessive description of physical appearance and clothing. Look. I really, really don't care. I'd rather imagine your character than have you spend a page telling me about their mahogany hair, cameo complexion, and rustling red satin skirts.

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THE SCIENCE OF MAKE-BELIEVE

14928/50000 words
0 sex scenes
1 hospital scene
1 drunk scene

WAR

2778/50000 words
1 character killed
0 sex scenes
1 terrorist operation

RESPECT your heroine. The cliched romance has wimpy, poorly-communicative women who fall prey to stronger heroes. I don't mean make your heroine a feminist icon, but give her realistic responses & urges. Conservative or liberal, a woman has a backbone!

The role of a writer is not to say what we all can say, but what we are unable to say. ~Anaïs Nin

http://selkierider.blogspot.com/

Characters that are trying too hard to be "current", by including characters that forgo realism in favor of the modern image of the perfect person.

Some sort of misunderstanding that is to drive the two apart, but cannot overcome the power of their love. *sigh* Conflict and separation is a lot more dramatic when it's a result of who they are, rather than some bizarre external circumstance.

And the biggie:

Lust being passed off as love. Yes, it's rather romantic to describe in great detail or with glowing photography a first meeting, the initial sighting of the fated-to-be love interest. But the problem is that a lot of novelists go "okay, they're in love now. Time to make it dramatic". Sorry, but love is built out of deep-rooted attachment that grows through encounter and time. If you can't convey that, don't bother writing a love story.

---------------------------------
Who's bright idea was this anyway?

I'm not into too much sex in a romance. Sure, the physical relationship can be a big part of a romance, but if I wanted to read an erotica, I would have picked one up.

I also agree with DavidSupina. Having a high-society miss in Victorian england who's not into fashion and can out shoot any man is all well and good. Once in a while. But there are many ways a woman can get what she wants while still being feminine. The woman of high-society where vicious, demanding, and just plain evil, but still participated in all things woman. Shopping, tea, bonnets, singing, etc. So over done!

Men who are tough as nails tend to bother me sometimes, too. Why do most romances HAVE to have a man who's tortured, a spy with secrets, or hell-bent to stay a rogue? Sure, it's exciting and I love reading about them, but I'd like to see something different once in a while. A sensitive man does exist. So over done!

I'm sure I could come up with more things I hate about romances, but I honestly can't think of them right now. But if/when I do, I'll be sure to post them.

Happy Writing!
Amber

-Angstangstangst.

-Ex-fiance/boyfriends get back together with the "Woman They Lost".

-Plain girls gets handsome man.

-Weak females.

-Men of Power (Business Tycoons, Shieks, Princes, Pirates, etc. Why do you never see romances with ninjas...?)

-The sex always being phenomenal.

-Pretty much anything you can find on the back of a book for under $5 at Target/WalMart. No, really. Go read a few cheap ones and see what I mean.

:D Just a few reasons why this genre drives me crazy.

"Transitions are best when used in triplicate!"

"Also, excessive description of physical appearance and clothing. Look. I really, really don't care. I'd rather imagine your character than have you spend a page telling me about their mahogany hair, cameo complexion, and rustling red satin skirts."

A.K.A. Being told sixteen times per book how pretty Edward is and how you just can't breathe properly when he's around.

"Transitions are best when used in triplicate!"

-Men built like TANKS. Yeah, I like muscular guys, but the phrase 'massive chest' is lost on me after reading it a few hundred times.

-Men in expensive, name-brand sh*t. There's nothing straight about a guy in GUCCI. GTFO.

-Heroines who basically give up their previous lives to accommodate their new bed-buddy. That bugs me to no end. It feels like a continuation of women in their place. UGH.

-F*cked up pasts for both parties. I mean... c'mon.... SOMEONE'S gotta be at least remotely happy with how they got to where they are.

AUGH! I forgot about NaNo! *rummages for a plot*

What's overdone being a different thread than what I don't like I will try to stay on the topic. Just from a market perspective vampires are dead, dead, dead. (That's kind of ironic, isn't it) paranormal is a little overdone as well so if you are trying to sell one it better be the best thing that editor has ever seen or it will probably go right in the bin. Apparently chick lit is also overdone and waning in popularity.

I personally have seen way too many alpha males who completely gag me. Not that that stops me from writing them for money. ;)

AJ

http://www.talesfromthecrit.com/index.html, http://ajchase.blogspot.com/, http://www.myspace.com/ajchasebooks

Amen to that!
Normally, reading a novel in which the heroine is a wimp is just plain out of character. NO woman I know is like that-- flat, unresponsive to anything except in consideration to falling over a man. People are complex. There's strength and weakness, and I think not showing both sides is the root of most evils where cliched romance is concerned.

YES! Finally! Someone who actually dislikes the romance in Twilight!

I liked Twilight alright until they started to fall in love, at which point I got really really annoyed at Edward for being so contradictory and mad at Bella for saying "Oh, he's so beautiful" every five minutes. Not to mention the excessive descriptions of Edward's pale white skin, golden/black eyes, and copper hair as opposed to Bella, where the most you learn about her is her hair color. >_<

Anyway, to get on subject... a LOT of books have a scene where the FMC is cold or something and the MMC give her his jacket/shirt and she smells it and thinks "Oooh! Eau de MMC smells so gooooood!"

No. Just, no. My brother is hardly hygienically challenged, but his jackets don't smell that great. It's not even cologne that the FMC is smelling either, she always thinks of it as his "natural smell".

Just... eww.

The tan of the main character. Cheesy plot lines. Boring characters and settings that we are all familiar with. I want a character that I could go out to coffee with and still claim that she's the best character I know. A friend. I want a setting that I've never heard of, a romantic one with lots of details. And I want a hero that is well, a HERO. I don't want the guy in the next cubicle, I want Mark Darcy.

Trilli

You never see ninja romances because they move too fast! ;)

~ Manda

"Mais le coeur et la raison sont souvent discordants."
~ Une si longue lettre by Mariama Bâ

-When a girl's heart is absolutely torn to shreds because of something the big mean male character did. :) I like it when the guys are being hurt by the girls, it's a little less common.

I was over chick lit with every fashion brand listed in the first 6 pages as soon as it began. The gay male friend was also never new.

I agree the vampire and other paranormal romances are becoming predictable. Even if you change the vampire to another supernatural creature or have a lead woman with a some magical gift, it's still the same story over and over again-Woman or man coming to terms with the new, unusual supernatural element and each other. It's tough, I get it.

I'm sick and tired of trilogy setups. In the first book you just know what the second two books will be about. It's so artificial. I have never set up my 2 best friends with a lover's two best friends...and actually had it work.

[img]http://www.neilgaiman.com/exclusive/nanowrimo/meter.php?uid=235800&offset=-8&ignore=today[/img]

The titles of the Presents/Desire Lines.....

I love romance novels....cheesy, overdone, whatever, I will love it if its well-written and believable. I do not particularly like Stupid Heroines and Arrogant Heroes, but other than that I like them. If you want to taunt me for that, I'll take it.

Go Tigers!

A lot of the above responses are what I'd say. I happen to love to read a very well written romance, and there are many of them.

I think that the couple jumping into bed before they even know each other is overdone and I won't even bother with the book. I also don't like wimpy heroines or rude, crude and really unlovable heroes. And, personally, I can't stand Scarlet O'Hara. I know she's a well written character...but I despise her. LOL.

I totally agree with everything thats been said already. Guess the only other thing I can't stand is when the heroine is too strong, and she and the hero are always butting heads (which is cool most of the time in certain circumstances) but sometimes it gets so annoying I just want to shut the book and throw it across the room (and hope I don't break something in the process).

Though that doesn't apply if the story is well-written. If it's well written...well, pretty much everything can work.

~Mia

Mia Alkmini

I'm probably going to get turned into a toad for this, but I'm really SO OVER vampires, werewolves, and the like.

[img]http://www.neilgaiman.com/exclusive/nanowrimo/meter.php?uid=235800&offset=-8&ignore=today[/img]

Books that end with "I love you so much, you fixed all the bad things that ever happened in my life and i fixed yours, and now let's get married and then have 10 babies to show everyone how strong our love is".

Or the secret baby story line. Or the guy who loves her kid so much even tho the kid is a BRAT (okay, probably just a regular kid). I love kids. I even have one. But they ruin romance for me.

My mind not only wanders sometimes it leaves completly ...

What is so over:
Alpha male with perpetually clenched jaw and chiseled features and expert hands
woman with perfect shape, like a tightly-strung violin (yeah, I saw that once)
expensive designer clothes, shoes, jewelry, and purses with brand names
high-powered cold bitch boss lady in major corporation
cold steel office towers with lots of plate glass
private jets, mansions and estates, champagne and caviar, sports cars, yachts, horses
corporations where everyone is aggressive, ruthless, ambitious, powerful (the people I work with are kind of lazy and incompetent)
certain "ethnic" characters typecast as smoldering and sexy with a hot and spicy temper
weird or cute euphemisms for body parts and sex acts
contemporary cowboys that say "reckin' you need my help there, little lady" or maids that curtsey and say "Aye, Mum"
dialogue with lots of apostrophies because the character has an accent and every word is spelled phonetically
packet of scented and/or tear stained love letters tied with a ribbon that reveal a family secret
a perfect little outfit for every occassion--fitted velvet jacket and jodpurs for horseback riding; sarong and wide straw hat for a tropical vacation; big scarf and sunglasses for driving a convertable

I get so aggrivated whe there are loose ends when I finish reading. For heaven's sake finish the book, it's your job. at least make a sequel, come on.

Also words such as, quiver, quake, and shaft are overused. Although I must admit that I have fallen prey to such words in the past.

Jazz

C.J. Slater

Not every character death romance has to be some tragic story of fulfilling life dreams and the guy stepping up and being perfect just because she's gonna die. If you're going to have a character die, think up your own way of dealing with it and let Nicholas Sparks do his work.

2005: Bound by Red
2006: Top of the Tower
2007: Forget-Me-Not

"He had a square jaw (Oh, wow, I bet he's a BOXER! Get it? Get it? Hah?) an aristocratic, elegant nose (oh, have any of you heard that "The Aristocrat" joke? Well, let me elaborate: I'm sitting in front of the fireplace with my family, playing the piano....) square cheekbones (Boxer!!!!! Ha ha, I am easily amused... Seriously, though, what is it with this fetish of men who look as though they were, quite literally, carved out of a darned mountain?! Sorry, but I happen to like my men made of... flesh. Rock is just... weird.) And piercing blue eyes/eyes that flashed like lightening. (Take your pick... but if I EVER describe any of my characters eyes like this, please make me swallow some anti-freeze as an after dinner refresher. Please.)

Out of the (VERY out of place) billowy white shirt and tight pants he wears, his muscles, heavy, can be seen covering every inch of his body. (O.K, let's tackle the muscles first. Usually, many stories I've read like this are badly done historical romances or sci-fi's. First of all- hel-LO? Men back in time either looked like shrimpy little idiots- who, I might add, wore a powdered wig, pretty little shoes, and lovely floral patterned jackets *snigger, snort*, or they were muscle bound morons. As for the muscle bound thing, sorry dears, but even the biggest warriors didn't have a gym to go flex their idiot muscles, and if they happened to get a great bod my some miracle of man, they were bound to be chauvanistic jack-offs who had mistresses and bastard children everywhere he went without- and sometimes, with- his wife. He wasn't truthful; that's just the way things were in past times. Cry and get over it. Now, as for the attire, must I really point it out? Sigh, O.K, I know there's rarely a story where the author really does have the balls to come out and say, "A billowy white shirt and impossibly tight pants that leave nothing to the imagination"- but you know, the way they describe them, that their leading male is being made to wearing ridiculous clothes- as well as their "sparkling" unbelievable personalities, as I hope I need not remind you. And, don't act as though I'm lying; how many darned covers or innder covers have you scene with a man holding a practically nekkid girl, and he's wearing strange clothes that make NO sense for any hetero male in ANY time period to be wearing? That's right, I said it- some clothes these romance authors put out there are frankly clothes no straight man would wear. Let's be real, people; haven't you ever read a story where you can believe and would find it more fitting for the leading male in the epilouge to have dumped the twitty helpless female for another muscle bound dude who "just likes to let it all hang out, man, 'cuz that's smexi!!11!!". Don't lie. Well, if it happens to be a gay romance, I'll understand. But if he's supposed to be straight... SAY NO TO THE BILLOWY SHIRT AND IMPOSSIBLY TIGHT PANTS!!)

O.K, I could go onto what I HATE about leading females, but I need to go do... stuff. Maybe I'll add onto what I hate about romance females some other time. Who knows?

Peace!

NaNoWriMo 2007- "Abstract Hearts" 40,696 Words (Unfinished)

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"A mother who radiates self-love and self-acceptance vaccinates her daughter against low self-esteem. " -- Naomi Wolf

I'd like to say something in the defense of Twilight and the smell of guy's clothing.

Let's take the easy one first: I know from personal experience that there are people (men) who have a strong natural scent and whose jackets do not smell like sweat, but, instead, like them. In fact, I can even recognize the smell of a certain person (which is a nice smell by the way, I like it quite a lot) from three feet away. But the clothes, even after he's worn them, still smell mostly like him. Actually, his little sister smells pretty similar, so it's not cologne. You know how your grandparents smell like their house and everything? It's like that, except better.

Ah, Twilight. I loved it, so I suppose I'm a little biased. But, when you criticize it, you have to understand that it is in first person. The reason you don't see any description of Bella is b/c she's writing it, and she has a low opinion of her appearance. The stuff Edward says indicates that she's quite pretty. However, that's also why you suffer through a lot of 'I couldn't breathe' and 'he looked so perfect'. She has a low opinion of herself, which leads her to really focus in on the fact that Edward (being a vampire) has stunning good looks. She is insecure about herself and insecure about Edward being attracted to her a 'plain jane'. Also, there is a paranormal/supernatural attraction at work here, too. Edward has the whole blood/vampire problem to deal with and it's perfectly possible that it goes both ways. Love at first site actually happens. This is just supernatural.
I totally respect that you guys didn't like it. But I think that might have something to do with expectations which didn't fit with the parameters of the novel.

That was way too long...

So many voices... No wait, that's just my iPod.

And the ranting continues...

-- Medieval girls wearing low cut dresses, no cover-ups for their hair, and frankly, no flea bites? Puuuhhh-pleeaaaseee! If they wanted to become comfortable with their sexual identity in any way, shape, or form, they'd be burned at the stake as a witch or were wolf. And, come on, you live a long time ago, and you'll look like crap. Guaran-tee it, children. You're dirty and smell nasty, because it's considered unlucky to bathe all the time, you're covered in insect bites... BECAUSE IT'S THE 16 EFFING CENTURY, and you spend your life staring at the ground demurely or risk getting the crap beaten outta you. Can't make this sexy? Too bad- it's real!

-- Vampies, Were wolves, & anything else that was revolutionary- for the early 90's!. I refuse- ree-fuse- to read Twilight. No. I can't handle another single vampire novel. I've read two series- the Carpathian novels by Christine Feehan, and another one about a blatant Sue named Sookie (I hate her name I swear to god I hate her name) who had oh so smexy sex with everything within 10 miles. No more, I'm done. First of all- read the original Vampire book. Yes, I'm talking about THE book- Dracula. He's decaying, soulless, evil, decaying, psychotic, decaying... did I mention DECAYING? Know why? HE"S DEAD! Nasty! Plus, I'll never read Twilight because the town idiot's reading it- and she said (I'm quoting) "Oh my gawd, Edward's soooo hawt!! I just love reading this, because I can imagine she's ME!!" *gags* ANYTHING Nikki reads I will NEVER go near with a 10 foot pole, thank you VERY much- good DAY! Were wolves...? Really? REALLY? Ugh, one word: Bestiality! it's too close to that for me to get over it. Plus- oh, let me just say it- he would kill the poor girl once he turned. Rip her to shredddssss... "Blake, dearest?" She asks him, her breasts heaving with every word. "What is wrong? Oh, isn't the moon lovely tonight!... Blake? Blake... OH MY GOD, NOOOO, STOPP! AAUUKKK.!!" Lovely romance, there. Plus, as it's been mentioned numerous times- it's over done. I will never go near it unless it can break the mould.

-- Twittish girls. If I read about one more girl who gives up her entire life- nay, her every good SENSE- to go with some chauvanistic a-hole, I'll tear my hair out. Also- as a side note, I could give more of a crap for Nascar (and I dislike it enormously) than I would about some high-born b*** in Victorian England. I. Don't. Care.

-- Blabbing about some brand. Look, to give you some background, I live in rural Indiana. If you yakk on and on about some clothing brand the female is wearing, I'll immeditally throw the book away. Even worse is if it's the guy who's wearing the name brand stuff. I... no, too easy.

-- The villian is a stupid 'tard who goes after the female for some really idiotic- or just overdone- reason. And, just once, I'd love to read a scene where it's the villain who gets the girl. What's wrong with some switheroo-ing? Personally, let the psycho find love- before he axes her in the head. Heh heh, I'd understand, I have a sense of humor- after all I DO read JTHM :P.

O.K, enough for now- but alas, I may return!

NaNoWriMo 2007- "Abstract Hearts" 40,696 Words (Unfinished)

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"A mother who radiates self-love and self-acceptance vaccinates her daughter against low self-esteem. " -- Naomi Wolf

I don't know where to start with the many inaccuracies in your rant.

People bathed. Not as often as now, but they did bathe. Where did they go? The baths. Don't believe me?

http://tinyurl.com/2hq3qf

This is Durer's 'Men's Bathhouse'. There's a women's one, too, but you get the idea.

Now, as for clothes, the puffy white shirt was a staple of menswear for quite a while. The skin tight pants--not so much.

Your notion that 'no straight man would wear these clothes' is silly. They were the fashion of the times. I guarantee you that a few years from now people will look at the ultrabaggy pants barely clinging to the guy's butt & think it's stupid. And how crazy do the fake fur coats of the 70s look today?