Magic-less Fantasy?

My novel isn't involving magic at all. I suppose the reason as to why is because I don't see the need for it. Personally I find magic to be a burden, its just a way people can be bigger and better than others just because they're 'special' and it always seems to just be an escape route. If brains, wit, intelligence or just plain luck doesn't work, magic always is there in case your character gets stuck. Not that I dislike books with Magic in. Magic is always good and I love reading how different people interpret Magic and what people's opinions are of it. Its just from my point of view, I find it overrated.

Personally, I find my novel going very well. Although, my novel is meant to be a comedic fantasy, and its not set in its traditional Medieval setting as are most fantasies. I think the fact is, if you completely get rid of magic altogether then it just means your characters are human and have to do things that rational (or perhaps not-so rational) humans would do in certain situations. Personally I think it would make it easier, because you can then connect with your characters more and engage with them, so you can figure out exactly how they'd react as a normal human being, rather than being 'special'.

I suppose the tricky side of things would be the fact that its all too tempting to want to fall into the cliche of bringing out magic at the end if you see that there's no way you can bring your character our of a sticky situation. That's happened in quite a few fantasies I've read. MC has no magic. MC gets into trouble. MC rescues self/others with Magic discovered at the last minute. End. Just keep reminding yourself that magic doesn't exist in that world, and why should you have to follow a cliche just so you can get someone out of a situation. Think outside the box :)

Who says unicorns and dragons and things are magical creatures? They could very well be as normal and well-known about as a dog or perhaps be considered rarer, lesser-known creatures, that doesn't necessarily mean they are magical. A unicorn is just a horse with a horn, perhaps folklore says its just good luck? A dragon is just an overgrown lizard that people should really stay away from if they don't want to be eaten.

Just think logically about things. We don't have magic in our world, so how do we think about things? We think it normal, boring plain. Perhaps in your world magic is science? Or good/bad luck is blamed on silly imaginary creatures called Rats which are giant mice with teeth and long tails? Its your novel, so make it up how you wish. Just because there is no actual magic, that doesn't mean there aren't people who believe in it (Magicians anyone?)

Hope that helped :) Best of luck with your novel!

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Title: The Absurdity of Hattingtonlee
Genre: Comedic Fantasy

Mine is written in a world where all the ideas, characters, plots and scenes were left to drift away never really becoming real works of art or fantastic ideas. The "Muses" of the worlds then get their criteria from those "Upstairs" and they have to then inspire humans on earth to create these ideas which then means these ideas and characters are born leaving room for more to come in.

I feel that using magic sometimes draws away from the social interactions between the characters. I also find that many set their fantasy in medieval sort of times. It would be good to see some set in times that a slightly more modern with more modern themes and language.

Good luck with yours btw :)

Mines doesn''t have magic in it simply because its set in this world except too far in the future for there to be humans. The creatures are all 'mythical' in one way or another {aside from the Flish, those were inspired by 'The Future is Wild' XP} that have simply evolved that way. The only reason they can all understand each other {for the most part} is because they're semi-sapient for the most part {besides it would be a very boring book if all the characters were only able to roar, growl etc}. There is a 'fantasy element' to it though, that isn't just about the creatures themselves but rather about the backstory to my MC's adventure/quest/whatever you wanna call it.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/gomababe/Nanopic2007sig.jpg

I don't have magic in my novel because it simply didn't fit. There are slightly different things going on - people who can write the language that moulds the universe - is that magic? :p

"It's not easy having a good time. Even smiling makes my face ache."

I personally didn't want to put magic in my novel because it gets too controversial, though there is an antagonist, who's a witch. Apart from that though, I'm mostly steering clear and it seems to be working fine. If I wanted to add it I'd probably have to work out a whole system or something ridiculous just to stop someone saying something and wiping everyone out. *Sighs*.

Josiah

06|School Town - Winner!
07|Mediev

For my novel, I just didn't think magic would help me tell the story. It's about a tyrannical regime taking over my MC's country, and the rebellion against it that she joins. I felt like if people could just go Harry Potter on each other, it'd be an entirely different story. I mean, what's the point of guerilla warfare if you've got magic?

I love stories with magic, but defining the rules in which your'e operating with it is like writing whole new laws of physics. I just didn't want to deal with it.

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Doin' it for the craic.

Mine doesn't have magic exactly as most authors describe it. I don't even use the world as magic, but there are things that are magic like, but actually more like gifts or powers that each race has.

For instance I have an entire world made out of origami and the world is made by a race of people that folded and brought to life everything in it.

I'm leaving a lot unexplained, because for the first time, I don't want to get bogged down with too much "physics of the worlds" type of thing.

For instance, my main character can travel through world just by staring at the sky, then the blue fades away like coming out of a fog, and he's falling out of the sky into another world, that's all. Period.

And the best thing, you don't need a big long explanation of "magic" or HOW things work, but that they work, they just accept it. They are completely okay with it.

"I talk best with my finger tips"

Personally I find magic to be a burden, its just a way people can be bigger and better than others just because they're 'special' and it always seems to just be an escape route. If brains, wit, intelligence or just plain luck doesn't work, magic always is there in case your character gets stuck.

It's not something I'm writing now, and it's not even really magic-free fantasy, but sitting in my brain is a plan for a story where the only ones who have magic are the villains. The hero is a sort of philosopher and warrior, and a leader, and considers magic to be something that drives humanity to evil. She requires that none of her followers practice magic, because it was used to upset and fracture the empire that she hopes to restore by cleansing the numerous mage-lords who use magic for horrible, vile things. Every escape and success of hers will require simple physical skill and possibly a cost in blood -- hers, or those who follow her. Without magic, you can't get past the need to sacrifice some of your own people to win a war.

"I have abandoned my search for truth, and am now looking for a good fantasy."
Ashleigh Brilliant

My novel doesn't have magic like you usually see it...people casting spells all over the place to make life easier/kill each other. People use guns and knives and explosives instead. I don't feel like coming up with a spell list or a basis for understanding and controlling magic, because it's too time-consuming and somewhat restricting. Plus magic makes everything too easy to get out of, you know?

"Wow, how did you evade that death blow?"
"Some kind of magic protection!"

Bah.

It doesn't make complete sense in my head right now, but the only thing that could be considered remotely magical is the power that can be used by producing sound on a musical instrument. But I'm probably going to come up with a logical explanation for that. Probably.

My fantasy doesn't have magic and won't as far as I know (but what do I know, it keeps changing and evolving far past what I was thinking. The little people are just that- people who are 2 inches tall. I guess there are some magical elements (shrinking/walls moving) but not wizards or magicians or anything. So far it seems to be working well- but I've just barely gotten her through the door to find the little people- so it's just real life so far.

At the current moment, my world has yet to show magic. Problem? Not at all, but I have a feeling it's going to show up, but it will be discreet and mystical and scary. As of now my main character is dealing with much realer problems, bad crops, a dry season and a war to the far north that may reach them soon enough.

My fantasy novel has werewolves, with preternatural strength, senses and longevity, but beyond that, no magic. I'm actually finding it kind of a relief; there's no one, anywhere, who can wave their hands and make inconvenient plot points go away, which forces my characters to think. I'm having a lot of fun doing away with all of the sigils and wards and crap I've used before.

I have a fantasy story with magic -- but it's in the background, never in the story. The premise itself is magical (people can be Healed of evil), and there are many characters being Healed. Other than that, the wizard MC is always explaining magic is not what people think it is, and he can't wave his arms and do stuff (I am still not sure what he *can* do :). So I guess I don't quite qualify, but it does feel pretty magicless...

'07 - Digital Watches (Won!)

This is my first time writing a fantasy story largely without magic (unless vampires and werewolves are "magic"); it simply didn't work with the story line. It's fun to give my characters problems than can't really be solved with magic.

It is very strange, though... my other main project has a hugely complex magic system that took me a couple years to develop thoroughly. And it's still a work in progress...

My story doesn't really have any magic in it, but then, I think it's only a fantasy because it doesn't really fit into any other genres. The world's just a giant tree, like continent sized, and the people all live in the upper branches. They have a technology on par with like 1920s or 30s level, just without mass production capabilities or wireless communication. People travel in airships and airplanes to get around. But then again, the tree is alive and isn't too pleased with what the people are doing to it, so I suppose that could be magical. Not too sure why I did that. It just sort of came out that way.

Usually when I write magic, i tend to keep it very loose and open. I always find magic systems that are guided by strict rules to be less 'magical', so to speak. More like an alternate science. But that can be a good thing too.

I'm also trying to figure out if I should throw in gratuitous magic to make my story more Fantasy-ish. I'm not sure I want to. Magic just complicates everything. It's like a virus! Once magic gets started in your story, it takes over and destroys everything else!

I tend to describe my story as a "Sword and Sorcery" era story (as opposed to just saying "High Fantasy" which might just imply that all the characters were stoned). But, there's no Sorcery in it! "Sword" isn't a subgenre by itself, I don't think? Neither is "Sword and", but if I tack on the word Sorcery, doesn't that mean I need to have some in there? Is there a simple vaccine for Magic? If so, I might try putting some Magic in there.

I have dragons, of course (the title is Death on Dragon Island, so it needed dragons). Those are dangerous, but not quite as bad as magic. I threw in a race of cat-people because those are always good. Do I need a race of mice-people to balance them out? I'm just not sure...

But, magic? I just don't know.....

- Davian

I don't have the traditional type of magic such as fireballs and the like. My race of gypsii people who the story pretty much revolves around are rumoured to be able to use magic but I haven't decided how far to go with that yet. I have no intention of making it a big thing though. I'm more interested in technology at the moment. Which is odd.

Some people are like slinkies. They have no apparent purprose but still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

I don't have magic in the classical sense. There's some pretty intense spirituality that comes into play and some weird abilities that people have. These abilities are akin to what people in real life have said they have, but in my novel they are unequivocal. That said, there're no spells and the only artifacts of significance earned their significance through what they mean to the character (ie, they have no intrinsic power, only sentimental value). In fact, the abilities people have tend to be very inward. They exercise no influence on the world - ie, no one's going to kill their enemy by thinking about it. But their talents might give them the foresight to know when and how they will meet their enemy, and/or the insight to know how to best defeat that enemy. I also have an alternative race of beings, but they aren't immortal (though they do live for a long time if they can avoid a violent end) and they don't really do anything the ordinary humans can't. They just do it better.

I did this because I find most of the magic used in fantasy annoying. I don't know why.

It's been going pretty smoothly thus far. It's like any other story - once you've established your world and your rules, you're golden. The novel I'm wiritng is a set in a world I developed long ago. In fact, it was born out of another project. The main character just popped out of nowhere witha very compelling tale of her own. She asked me to write it, so I decided to do that for NaNoWriMo.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

I'm in the camp where I have a magic system in place but I've hardly touched it at all. I had intended to make a bigger fuss about it originally, but when I began writing, I realized that there would be nothing for the non magic wielding population to do, so I toned down the magic SEVERELY to the point where the use of magic is sort of like archers; they get first shots from the range, but in close combat, it's completely useless.

Of course, this also gives my heroine an excuse to use a sword because, let's face it, girls with swords = all sorts of awesome.

As a Christian and a mom, I intentionally started out coming up with a fantasy idea because of a thread debating Harry Potter and whether Christians should let their kids read it/watch it. I watched the movies with my husband while the kids weren't home, and personally didn't like what I saw. The movies were very well done, and the special effects were great, but the ideas that it was putting out there just weren't what I'd like my kids to be exposed to.

I want my book to be something that every parent will be comfortable buying for their kids/teens.

"Ne'Ikio's Journey" is set in a world much like our own, but with imaginary creatures that we don't have in our world. For instance, one of the main characters is a made up creature I call a septurar and is a large four legged creature who looks like a cross between a bear and a lion. He has long pointed ears like a lynx and glows a frosty blue. There are also giant bird like creatures that are able to carry off someone in there sleep.

My MC goes off on a quest to find his parents and ends up spending a lot of time in a poor village going about life like most peasants would. Nothing too fancy.

On the more fantasy side of things, there are a group of creatures that are tracking him down, trying to keep him from finding his parents and there is a group trying to protect him. Both groups are invisible to Ne'Ikio and fight each other all around him, while he goes about his life completely unaware.

They are sort of an analogy between angels and demons. His father lives in their realm and is sort of a God like figure, watching and waiting for his son to return home. At least those are my thoughts behind the characters. I'll see as I go along how much of the analogy is obvious and how much is just a good guys fighting off the bad guys sort of thing.

Either way, my book does fit into the young adult/adventure/fantasy genres (I think), but will not contain any magic as a matter of personal convictions. :)

My novel (I can't believe I'm actually planning it this far ahead... maybe since I didn't participate last year all my ideas are wanting to jump out and get used! :D) doesn't have magic, because while I love many series with magic (of varying kinds-- honestly I prefer the odd stuff, like the Sunrunner series or The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant), I prefer worldbuilding... and like others have said, magic is too often used as an easy exit (the Companion novels come to mind, as much as I love them). I MAY include some small, subtle magic in my novel, but not in the main culture, which is a Rome-esque empire. Some characters will later encounter a distant, unknown culture... I may or may not give them some kind of magic. If I do, though, it'll be a subtle, difficult thing, not "*snaps fingers* Lightening, you're dead." kind of stuff.

To me it's more fun to make up the whole big bad world and then make my characters have to WORK to get where they're going.

I have some 'magic' like stuff in my NaNo, such as a sorcerer who mixes a potion that gives him farsight, and I've invented a few different creatures (shadow cats being the main one), but mostly there isn't much magic.

~dreams come from within, let your imagination soar~

~write, write! Because as long as we write, we live!~
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NaNo 07-Shadow Cats (WON!)
JanNo 08-A Feather of a Raven (WON!)
Screnzy 08- The Last of the Elvish Equines (WON!)

Magic, like Fantasy itself, can be easily abused.

That doesn't mean its bad to use, or something to be avoided, just that it does require its own set of rules which you do have to follow if you don't want it turning out stupid. When magic can do everything in the world without consequences, then its rather boring. No conflict, no tension, no problems when you can just snap your fingers and fix it all.

I find the best magic in a story is when its in the background. It's part of a character, yes, but its not the focus. The story doesn't revolve around the magic powers. Subtlety gets you everywhere when it regards magic.

Personally, I have one story where one of the main characters is the only one with any magical ability and the majority of people there don't believe in it. Now he does have quite a bit of power, but its offset with a few physical tradeoffs concerning his body. Another world magic occurs naturally in a 1/3rd of the population, but most of them just have single abilities, control over wind or earth for example. It's just part of who they are, and not used every second.

My current WIP has no magic in at all. It simply doesn't need it, and I find it difficult working out what magic can and can't do. The plot would suffer if there was magic in this.

My next project is slightly different. It's set in the same world, on a different continent and a different culture. There is no such thing as "magic" in terms of conjuring fireballs from this air and making things fly and turning things invisible, but there is a Guild of Magic which relies on superstition, willingness to be fooled, and a little bit of science. The Guild of Magic won't be the focus in this particular story, but I think it will be in a future story.

I concieved this project by asking: why does a world without magic have to know there's no magic? I was thinking about the alchemists of the past, and their attempts to turn base metals into gold, and I wondered how the society would work if that sort of thing, along with regular susperstitions, were not only widely believed, but encouraged. I mean, seriously. The Romans and Greeks were pretty smart. There were poets and philosophers and deep thinkers. But in general, they still held onto their suspicions and their gods.

I don't mess about with "real" magic - that is, the sort of stuff you usually find in fantasy - because it's too much trouble to work out the limitations, to rationalise it, and to work out how it would actually operate in normal everyday life and within the context of the story. I know that if I had magic, I'd only use it when it suits the plot, and the story would suffer for it. Thus it's better to do without, or use a substitute like my Guild of Magic, which isn't really magic.

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Screw physics, I write fantasy.

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Um. Okay. What? Quick question. Do you think your kids aren't bright enough to A: distinguish between fantasy and reality and B: make up their own minds about what they believe in?

Ok, sure, you wanna bring your kids up in a secure and loving Christian environment. I can understand that. That's perfectly acceptable. But I've never understood this attitude. "Protecting" your kids from Harry Potter can only, ultimately, damage them. Look at it this way. If you're always protecting them from stuff like Harry Potter, which, let's be honest, isn't exactly the work of Satan himself, how do you expect them to know how to guard against similar views and ideas when they come across them later in life? And if they don't learn now to make their own decisions on what is real and what is fantasy, what is "godly" and what is not, when they move out and face the same sort of things, how are they going to know how to deal with them?

Secondly, Harry Potter is fantasy. It's a story. It's entertainment. Nothing more. No-one ever claimed it was true, least of all JKR. If you won't let them read or watch Harry Potter, what else will you shield them from? Will you not allow them to watch the recent film Startdust because there's amgic in it? Will you stop them reading other fantasy novels by different authors, such as Terry Pratchett, Robin Hobb, David Gemmell, Tamora Pierce? Star Wars has a kind of magic in; will you prevent them from watching it? How much further will you take it? Will you not allow them to study Ancient History because the Romans and Greeks believed in pagan gods.

Will you allow them to question the Bible? Because, let's be honest, it may well have been inspired by God, but it was written by humans. Humans weren't around when the earth first formed; they did not have the ability or the need to write when they evolved, thus the Creation story is definitely not an accurate account. And humans are greedy; we're certainly not perfect. A lot of ancient texts were written more as propaganda than to record an event. Take Virgil's Aeneid for example. Sure, it's about a Roman hero from the time of the Trojan Wars with Greece. But it's also about Augustus, and the values he was trying to instill in the Roman populace. The plays of Greek poets such as Sophocles were about ancient heroes, but they were also about the Greek gods and why the audience shouldn't piss them off. Even Herodotus, the "first" historian, had a political bias in favour of the Athenians and against the Thebans, among others.

What I'm saying is that ancient writings have a human bias that goes beyond the obvious meaning, and the Bible is no different. Certainly, the New Testament is going to be more historically accurate than the Old because of when it was written in relation to the events it's describing.

Circling round back to my point, if you don't allow your kids to question the Bible, and shield them from fantasy, how are they going to be able to understand either and how are they going to remain strong in their faith? Faith is tested, and grows stronger, only by questions asked and sufficient answers gained. If your kids ask, "Why can't we watch Harry potter?" what will you tell them? Will you tell them God doesn't want them to? Will you tell them it's the work of Satan? Will you tell them it's not suitable, that it's not Christian? And what kind of impression would they go away with if you answer like that?

Christianity isn't about living without fantasy, or without hearing or reading views that oppose God. Christianity is about faith and trust, and living with that faith full in the knowledge that many do not believe what you believe.

Fantasy is fantasy. Sure, there are some roots in reality, but you've got to start with something. That doesn't mean the rest of it is real, or that magic in a fantasy novel is inherently bad. If your kids can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality, it's not them to blame, or society. It's yours for hiding them from their means of learning.

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Screw physics, I write fantasy.

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What Anezka said!

To which I would add: you can't prevent your kids from seeing/reading/hearing about Harry Potter, given the books' and movies' current popularity and ubiquity. You *can* make it harder, and in process make your children feel like social misfits, of course. But the biggest risk is undercutting your own credibility, since most children find the "Christian" objections to HP supremely silly.

I can't help but feel you're being unnecessarily harsh on Debboggy. I personally agree with what she said. I've read most of the Harry Potter books and didn't enjoy any of them but was told I needed to read them in order to hold a valid opinion. Yes, I think that perhaps the arguments have been blown a bit out of proportion but if you consider what you said about the Bible, are you naive enough to think that your opinion is the only one that's valid?

People are free to make up their own minds, and it sounds to be like you're judging Debboggy for having done just that. I think what she's doing is a brilliant idea - if you don't like something, do something about it. Well done.

"It's not easy having a good time. Even smiling makes my face ache."

Shucks, and here I thought Anezka was being *way* polite about the Bible. Not to mention really generous in ascribing any substantial historicity to most of it.

Now, now. That isn't what this thread is for.

"It's not easy having a good time. Even smiling makes my face ache."

Threads tend to go wither they will. But this one was diverted, after all, from its original course by Debboggy, with her insertion of moral judgement on Harry Potter.

I suppose we could return to topic by asking if the Bible should be considered magic-less fantasy...

In fact, literarily, the question of how "divine action" should be differentiated from "magic" could be interesting. As I recall, in some of Tamora Pierce's books (the Wild Magic series?) the line becomes pretty blurry. Elizabeth Moon, on the other hand hand, mostly seems to distinguish pretty clearly between the two.