The Today Programme - 27/11/07

I listened to that too, and couldn't help but think that she had missed the point entirely. Yes, I think anyone who submits their 50,000 word draft on 1 December richly deserves to have it rejected, but only because at that stage it is still a rough first draft!

NaNoWriMo is a challenge. Most of the people taking part would not even consider trying to get it published. Some will, and of course some will fail, at least in the first few attempts. But the whole thing is fun, and it is a great exercise for those who have always wanted to write, but always told themselves they didn't have the time. NaNo gives you the excuse to try - if you really decide after November that you can't do it, then what have you lost? Nothing at all.

I almost laughed out loud when she criticised turning off the inner-editor - the sheer number of established authors who recommend that very step as a good way to start, I hope none of them are her clients! And as to her disdain for the "slushpile" - some recently published and highly successful authors spent a long time with their manuscripts wallowing in the slushpile.

I think the NaNoWriMoer acquitted herself very well with dignity and good humour, unlike the publisher who just sounded hostile to new authors full stop. Nobody on these forums is under any illusion that they are producing the greatest novel ever written. But it's a good starting point to get the storyline for the greatest novel ever written worked out on paper! ;-)

Ooh I'll download this. There was a piece on BBC news this morning that I caught the end of - set in York, I believe - that appeared much more positive. Did anyone see that?

I liked the way they spoke to normal people including: a guy who said he keeps writing even though he realises he'll probably never get published - he writes because, the more he writes the better he gets (he sounds just like me!); and a woman who said she writes because the words are in her head and she wants to get them out (sounds like me, too!).

I was pleased to see it on the news and I could say "I'm part of that". Whatever the naysayers on the other programme say, NaNo is a good thing - regardless of whether you write a stonkingly good novel or 50,000 words of near-rubbish. Too many people spend too little time writing as it is, and even if all you do is write nonsense it's better than not writing at all. I look at the first thing I wrote over 20 years ago and it's utter rubbish compared to what I write today (I recall enjoying writing it at the time), but if you don't at least write rubbish today you'll never aspire to write better tomorrow.

For many people, NaNoWriMo is a "first step" and it's a good first step.

I too am angry about this. Waiting for it made me late to work and in the end I still had to run before it was on (and missed the train).

Bad Today program.

Just heard it on the "Listen Again" (f***ing RealPlayer installation trying to get me to sign up to stuff). Both the presenter and the publisher came across as very condescending and dismissive. How is it something that "began in the States, obviously"? It should have been a feature on Radio 2, not 4.

I heard this whilst driving to work; also was mad with the publisher and thought the Nanowrimoer did a darn fine job defending herself and us.

Felt like phoning the BBC to get them to remind the miserable old bint that if it were not for us novelists she would find herself out of a job. Hope lots of potential novelists (not just Nanowrimoers) were listening, and following her performance resolved not to bother sending her their manuscript.

I wish it hadn't all been done in the tone of 'it's just a bit of fun' versus 'people who think they can write should be locked away' - it would have been nice to have a glimmer in there of 'maybe this will spawn the next blockbuster' and 'hurray for creative genius'.

Anyway, onwards and upwards.

Cosmic x

I've just listened to this, and I wasn't impressed with the publisher! I'm not under any delusions that what I end up with by midnight on 30th November will get published. All I'm intending to do with it is do a very quick rewrite of it in December (to neaten things up and fix a few continuity errors) and then put it on my website for my friends to read - it wouldn't be publishable anywhere else.

But my main problem with writing is to actually get on and write something. This challenge has spurred me on to actually get something done, so that once it's over I can go back to some other writing that I've been working on previously and get on to finishing them so that they are in a publishable state. Thanks to NaNoWriMo I feel that I can actually get on and do something!

If anyone else wants to listen to this, as long as you're in the UK you can access it for up to a week from the BBC Radio 4 "Listen Again" page at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/progs/listenagain.shtml

You'll find the segment at approx. 2h 37m into the show.

Thanks for the link KSG.

I didn't hear this but a few years ago I was interviewed (along with some other Nanowrimers) for Women's Hour and it was completely clear from the tone the interviewer was taking with me that she wanted to stitch us all up and make us look stupid.

Strangely my answers were not used at all.

The finished product did exactly what I thought it would - tried to argue all the people taking part were misguided fools. Fortunately they interviewed a published writer who pointed out that when she has to meet a deadline she might well write 50,000 words in a month and that there was nothing bad about trying to write.

Far better to be
Fool with fifty thousand words
Than sage with haiku

Sorry. I got up early this morming to finish my novel, and I'm feeling a bit sleep deprived...

Haha. Good stuff.

I just want to point out that this was an agent, and not a publisher making all these comments.

It's a shame that she felt so resentful about this project -- a good agent would have realized that this is a wonderful way to find new talent -- something agents and editors are always crying out for.

It is actually an agent's sole purpose to sift through the slush pile and find talent. That is what they get money for. She is clearly someone who doesn't understand her role in the publishing industry.

She is not someone to be listened to or intimidated by. She is just someone to avoid when sending out your nicely edited scripts.

There are plenty of agents (and publishers) who support the idea of NaNoWriMo -- as long as the raw deal doesn't land on their desk on Dec 1st.

The best idea to get published is to actually go to publisher first, and when they say yes, get yourself an agent to handle the details. That guarantees a good response, as the agent knows that you've got a deal. And since agents work on commission, the more money they can get in a contract, the better for both them and you. An agent's sole purpose is to get the best deal possible for the client. The slushpile is where the rejected manuscripts end up, the ones that have not yet been sold to a publisher, or have not yet been examined, are still on the in-pile.

From a look at the Blake-Friedman website, I got the impression they (C Blake in particular) are not too fond of - shall we say "unconventional" - creative efforts.

It is important to be aware that many Publishers want you to find an Agent first.

Keep a wide open mind when reading some of these comments .......

I heard the piece. Didn't the agent say she wouldn't handle any novel that had been written in a month?

In the introduction to my copy of the 87th Precinct novel Cop Hater, Ed McBain says that he wrote the early novels of that series in, you guessed it, one month each. Cop Hater was first published in 1956, my copy is a 2003 edition. Yeah, you wouldn't want 5% of a book that stayed in print 50 years, would you?

Now, she might say Cop Hater doesn't sound much like literature, and she'd be right. Transpires that Ed McBain published his more literary fiction under his real name, Evan Hunter. I haven't checked, but I'd guess that The Blackboard Jungle is still in print too.
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Another thing I've noticed is that the press always seem to feature people failing to reach 50,000. As a soon-to-be five-time winner, that irks me. Hearing a joyful "up yours agent, I've achieved what I said I would" would really have lifted that piece, I think.
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2003 Vindicta, 2004 Clown Down, 2005 Lavender Latté, 2006 Ulysses not found, 2007 The Spike Garden

Oh, the Today programme! Can't live with it, can't live without it... I found the piece deeply patronising, but at least the most patronising part, for once, was not John Humphries, the interviewer, who revels in his reputation as a grumpy old man, but the incredibly irritating agent, who seems to think that unpublished writers only write in order to annoy her!

Still, all publicity is good publicity, I say, and if a few of the people who heard that article Googled NaNoWriMo afterwards, perhaps they'll join us next year. That's how I found out about NaNo in 2003 - though admittedly the radio piece that time came out at the beginning of November, so I managed to join in - and I've not looked back since.

Best of luck to everyone for the last couple of days. Write some more, just so you can put one finger up to that stupid agent :-)

God, who stuck that broom up her bum? What a complete party pooper. It set my teeth on edge listening to her envisioning a horde of crazy writers all convinced they've found the quick route to becoming the next great writer, as if NaNo were some kind of literary X factor. She completely missed the point, and would not be corrected. What a cow.