The Ultra-Intelligent 5-Year Old. How to pull it off?

Mental intelligence does not equal emotional intelligence-- I'm sure you know that. So, what's common behavior among 5yo's?

Hmmm...any brothers or sisters he can fight with? Blame stuff on? Whine about the fact that this "intruder" is on his side by a certain micro-millimeter? Aggravate? Annoy or otherwise pester endlessly?

Even without siblings, there are certain things that even an ultra-intelligent 5yo may have trouble with: patience, for one. In fact, because he's supersmart, he may be less patient (ie, he can see all the viable answers that Mom is going to say as to why he can't have the cookie before she says so, but that doesn't lessen the fact that he still wants the cookie). He may understand the logistics of arguments, but his temper could be shortened. Discerning between reality and pretend is also difficult for 5yo's-- may or may not be an issue for your kid, but it could be an interesting dilemma if you've got something like Santa Claus/Tooth Fairy/Easter Bunny, what have you in your tale. In other words, he may logically understand the improbability of such fantasy creatures, but his unwillingness to surrender his childhood pleasures may allow him a measure of belief/faith that he otherwise wouldn't have if he weren't so young. Let him believe, feel wonder, in spite of, or even because of his intelligence.

He'll be able to process information at an extraordinary rate, but he's still at that age of wonder where everything seems new, and beautiful and grand. Let him have that curiousity-- use his intelligence to expound upon that curiousity and wonderment.

Muchas gracias. That helps a lot!

And I just realized this should be in Character and Plot Realization more than it should be here... =-) oh well...

How do you think a 5 yo would react to forced military training and service?

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."

A child like the one you are describing is going to qualify as “profoundly gifted” and you might want to look up the characteristics of such a child. They are wise beyond their years but this can make them vulnerable.

One of my daughters is considered gifted. She taught herself to read so we don't even know when she started doing it. She's also artistically gifted--some of these kids have talents like this beyond intellectual capacity. She’s not off the charts in her intellectual capacity, like your character seems to be, but it has been a unique experience raising her. Some people think that gifted kids are easier because they are more intelligent and reasonable. This is absolutely not true.

I agree with the points about patience and discerning between reality and fantasy. Being put in a situation where the child can't conceptualize the possibilities is really a struggle for such a child. They often have a very good imagination which helps them imagine all sorts of possible realities or fantasies.

My daughter was less whiney than I’ve experienced in other children. She was moody but in more of a brooding sense which set her apart sometimes. What struck me about her as being quite a bit different is that she was frequently worried, usually about impossible or unlikely things. Sometimes I felt like I was as much her cheerleader as I was her mother. She understood ideas that were beyond her years but she looked at it from a child’s point of view which is centered on themselves. Picking out books for her was difficult because she could read just about anything from a very young age but might be distressed about the implications of what she was reading if there was death, disease, or stressful concepts. She often didn’t finish books because when it got to the point of real conflict, she didn’t want to read further. This was why it was important to read books to her and make sure she got through the point of climax. She also often tried to avoid seeing the climax in movies—convinced it would all go wrong, even in silly kids' flicks that were intended for her age range.

She imagined numerous scenarios and always thought of them with a worst-case-scenario viewpoint. For example, unlike kids who you have to tell not to run into the street for a ball, she knew not to and sort of stood at the edge of the yard in fear. She would imagine that she had done it and that a car had hit her and worried that one day she might forget not to go into the street and she would die. She rarely voiced these fears though. So they would grow in her head to the point of being all but a reality. Drat, the imagination! I had to learn to guess what she was thinking so I could circumvent her cycle of worrying about an unlikely possibility. I got very good at it, actually.

A really intelligent child might not have adult relationship skills but may not bother with childhood ones either. As a younger child, my daughter didn’t have the same concept of friendship as the kids her own age did. She didn’t worry about rejection from potential friends. If a kid rejected her, she just assumed they were not her friend--no big deal. Sometimes kids thought she was snubbing them but she was so caught up in some project or another (she was always making things) that she forgot about her social obligations like talking to her friends or calling them. While this characteristic also meant she could dispassionately view how other kids were behaving toward her, it also meant that she expected them to understand her logic. Her real friends figured this out about her. Now that she's older, they understand it and have had to point out the problems in her social logic. Listening to this kind of interaction is hilarious, I have to say. Sometimes it's like dealing with Data on Star Trek.

This is not to say that she wasn't a delightful and engaging child. She's very quick-witted and often a favorite of good teachers (and a disciplinary target of other teachers). She would catch the adult humor that should go over the heads of other kids (not necessarily dirty humor but sarcasm and things like that). She's an absolute blast because, as astute as she is, she makes more connections between things and this can be pretty funny when she gets talking. She uses a lot of "big words" but knows how to use them so it can take adults who don't know her completely by surprise. She is probably move comfortable in the company of adults because they are more likely to understand her and provide a substantial conversation than her peers.

I can tell you exactly what my child, at 5, would think of military service. She'd be devastated. Military training strips a person down and then builds them up into the model soldier--someone who, when in a subordinate position, will respond automatically without questioning it. My daughter, I know, would not have been able to handle it, especially if she imagined that her life might be in danger in some kind of military conquest. She would, however, benefit from the concepts of organization and predictability. She'd learn that those concepts would allow her to get the boring stuff done so she could move on to the creative tasks she prefers. There are some really stoic kids in the profoundly gifted category who might consider military training as a personal challenge--but probably not at age 5. Of course, your character is an exceptional child.

Another good story about ultra-smart kids has been republished along with its companion stories in "Children of the Atom" ... I've only read the first story as I can't get hold of the book yet but I hear it's a great set. The first one is about a psychologist interviewing and befriending a slightly above average, loner type kid. The more he knows him, and the more the boy trusts him, the more he realizes that the 'average' part is all an act. It's a great read. The character is in high school, I think, so older than your character, but still valuable for information.

Stephanie Tolan's books often deal with gifted children, particularly her Welcome to the Ark series. That first book shows a lot of the angst involved. She's also written some articles. Her favorite analogy is cheetah children in a lion world ... both great designs, but completely different.

And check out www.hoagiesgifted.org for information on different levels of giftedness and the often-related traits.

A word of caution:

I once read a story snippet about a "genius" child who was immediately forming understandable sentences the minute she was popped out of the womb.
There's got to be an amount of suspended disbelief when reading fiction, of course. However, this was beyond ridiculous, as the baby had not even yet heard most of the words she was using.
(The """author""" then got rather "frustrated" with me because "It's fiction! Anything can happen! You're SUCH a chump.")
There's a lesson there that applies quite beautifully in your premise. The child cannot be prepared to handle and be knowledgeable about every situation. You cannot write them out of EVERY problem because they've "studied space shuttle schematics and also can make oxygen and breathing apparatus out of some moon rocks and a pipe cleaner" or some such. A lot of the time, sure, you can do that. But your character and plot will be plenty stronger if at least SOME of the time, he/she is not prepared to deal with the situation.

And, as covered in the Ender saga, your child supergenius will be physically inadequate if they are put in personal combat. (Think Ender vs. Bonzo in the showers if Ender hadn't taken defense courses. Poor little Andrew Wiggin would have been a lovable pulp in no time at all. Or maybe think Bean vs....pretty much anybody. You get the idea.)

Good luck!

Thanks to all of you! That helps immensely...

=-)

Good Luck To You As Well!

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."

A baby talking as soon as it was born? Now that IS ridiculous. Maybe in a fairy tale, but not in a book that's supposed to remotely resemble reality. Even assuming the kid had the brain power, and even assuming it was somehow programmed with language without ever having heard any, how could a newborn have the fine motor control necessary for speech? Even leaving the mental issue aside, pronouncing words is a complicated physical skill that takes a long time to learn. Which is why most babies don't master it until they can already roll over, crawl, pick things up, walk, and so on ...

By the way, about this genius 5-year-old character: a lot of people, including adults as well as other young children, are going to find this child's extraordinary intelligence very unnerving. People may be scared of the kid. People fear what they don't understand, and they fear things that are superior to themselves. It rings faintly of those possessed children in old horror movies -- you know, the ones that talk in weird grown-up voices? It's creepy!

There is really more than one kind of intelligence, and even if your character has a ton of "book smarts," at 5 years old he is likely to lack the wisdom or social grace that will help him get along with people. He may be an outcast, or he may prefer the company of adults to the company of other children.

I had a soul ... but NaNoWriMo eated it. :(

Breeder of Plot Wolverines

Some babies do begin talking very young, though I've never heard of a newborn talking. As for hearing language though ... that's not so far-fetched. Babies do tend to recognize the voices of their parents right off ... it's not soundproof in that womb, after all, though I bet it's a bit muffled. And when you consider that they make headphones that you can put on the belly and pipe Mozart to the kid ... you can make a logical extension that the unborn baby hears something. (Not that I think it's all that logical to be playing Mozart to unborn babies... but I can believe they might hear some of it.)

I just want to point out to people decrying the immediately-speaking infant idea that if you're a good enough writer you can make your readers believe anything. Remember how plausible Matilda's intelligence was in the Roald Dahl book? Has anyone read anything like Gunter Grass's book The Tin Drum or Gabriel Garcia Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude? You can absolutely have a kid pop out spouting words, but you have to establish the rules of your world in order to make it seem plausible.

General Betzon, you might try looking up "magical realism" -- read a few books in the subgenre and see if that might help with the very intelligent five-year-old idea.:)

How's this?

The setting is Medieval-Reniassance, but in a fantasy world. The city in which my character is located is the capitol city of a nation called Ceeror. The city contains the nation's archives which is the collective writings and knowledge of eight millennia. My character is somehow capable of percieving his surroundings, reading, and thinking all at once(The thinking bieng entirely seperate from any thoughts on the book he's reading.)(This is explained later on...) And as well has better-than photographic memory (Meaning mainly that he can remember more in-depth and such). He has been able to read and talk since he was 2 1/2 years old. Then at age 3- 3 1/2, he finds out about the archives, learns to climb, walk, and other finer motor control. From age 3 1/2 to age 5 he spends most of his time slipping off to the Archives to read and he, while home, draws schematics based on what he learns of things from the archives. Thus by age 5 he has read a lot. He's unnaturally mature, but still childish at heart and often finds himself in situations when he can't control his emotions or where others refuse to acknowledge his ability and knowledge.

Does that seem to be believeable?

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."

Mostly. I think kids start walking and talking before 3 1/2 but I know a girl who learned to read at 4 so i think 2 1/2 is fine. But why does he want to go to the archives? Work on his attention span--why does he want to sit down an read the book then draw something about it? Why doesn't he want to play with the other kids or have fun playing outside? I can see it happening if he's basically alone in this place and doesn't have much to do (work on why the parents would leave a 3 1/2 year old alone for long periods at a time) and he doesn't like ther other kids/ the other kids snub him and think he's weird/ there are no other kids so since he's smart enough to find ways to amuse himself and goes looking around.

I would suggest having someone in the library that your kid loves to talk with and be around in the archives--then he wouldn't be alone there and the parents (or guardians if he's parentless) would think he's doing fine. That person could help foster the kid's natural intelligence and curiosity and push him to learn more. (the kid might want to to win approval, as a game, to prove how smart he is or whatever).

Does that help?

"I just want to point out to people decrying the immediately-speaking infant idea that if you're a good enough writer you can make your readers believe anything."

The writing in question was terrible. ;)
Like reading something the average eight year old could have come up with, except the writer was somewhere in their mid-teens I think.

But yeah, sure, nearly anything can be made believable by an excellent writer, but for the sake of "probably being right," I'm assuming that we're talking about a writer with average skill. It's like saying you shouldn't fill a bucket with gasoline and light it on fire. "Yeah, but the Mythbusters did it!" doesn't really make it any better an idea for the laymen ;)

...and remember, don't try this at home.

Some things I've already implemented, but didn't mention, but other things do help a lot.

As for why, he is a knowledge-hungry kid. Since he is unable/ unwilling to socialize among his age-group and older people still refuse to accept him, he wants to know more and more to counterbalance the void. I am now adding in a military commander which he will try to "befriend".

The Archives are strictly off-limits to all but very high-level scholars. Books can be requested and copies are sent, but few have authorization to even enter the Archives. They are located deep underground and the only entrance is under heavy guard every minute of every hour of every day. My character stole a key from the Keep and has found that it accesses a secondary entrance that was hitherto unknown to everyone. He enters and exits without anyone knowing he is doing so. The novel begins with him bieng caught and thus forced, as punishment, to join the military...

With that added to the picture is it more plausable?

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."

Oh, sure, babies hear stuff while they're still inside their mothers, and it's been proven they can recognize Mom's voice (and distinguish it from other voices) from day one. But it's doubtful they're hearing actual language in there. Not with all that fluid and stuff in between. Have you ever tried to follow a conversation when your head is under water?

I had a soul ... but NaNoWriMo eated it. :(

Breeder of Plot Wolverines

Kids tend to *begin* walking and talking by age one, though there's a lot of variety (and you've got to be pretty lax on what you call talking, LOL). My oldest was older than one before he walked (worried me to no end) and two before he spoke in actual words. And he's bright. My younger was walking around ten months, but again waited till closer to two to speak. She's also bright.

By 3.5 most children are quite adept at walking and running and climbing into all sorts of trouble. I could totally see a child that age sneaking into some forbidden location, if they had sufficient motivation to do so.

Sending a child into the military just for breaking into a library seems incredibly harsh, so be sure to set it up as that sort of world well in advance. And then explain why your so-smart child still feels it's worth the risk. (Ego could be an issue ... "Of course I won't get caught.")

I think that's better, but you still have two holes left that the others haven't mentioned. Why is the kid left alone long enough to get into that kind of trouble without people wondering and noticing, and why would he want to draw sematics of stuff? How has he learned enough math to pull that off and understand it? I'm assuming people have been treating him like the other kids which is why I suggested the mentor in the fist place. I guess it doesn't work there though ;)

Well, the reason for the Archives being so overprotected is that they contain the original hand-written documents and histories of eight millennia. It's not really a library and it's not often referenced to. Schools and libraries have much more vague summaries avaibible to them, but my character wants the real thing, so when he learned of the Archives he tried very hard to find a way to get in. Thus finding a little kid in a place that has one entrance only (supposedly) and is guarded by 80 men around the clock with overlapping shifts and such, as well as the whole place being deep beneath the inner wall and only accessed through a maze of halls and passages is disturbing and alarming. Since the kid broke in he's obviously pretty dang smart. So why not use that as a reason to draft him? There is no real official punishment for breaking into such a place, since the liklihood of such is so near to impossible for one person. That combined with the fact that the nation's enemy seems to have been inactive for the past few centuries and a certain General is getting edgy... So, with all the words, that's why the punishment is as it is.

Then... Motives for drawing schematics... My character is highly imaginative and would really rather be out of the city exploring and such rather than stuck inside doing what he is. So he draws and stuff to make up for it. Mainly the schematics aren't too specific, but got better as he practiced. So the most recent ones (to the time the book starts) are fairly specific and detailed, but still only a child's mirror of an actual schematic.

And a mentor would be nice... I think I'll have the General really take an interest in my character and personally tutor him. If that doesn't work I'll find someone...

Why is he wandering the city? There's been 100s of years of peace, the walls are (ridiculously) high, the number of guards is extreme, and families are everywhere. Basically it's really safe and his parent's acknowledge that he is smart enough to take care of himself for the most part. They tried to stop him from wandering in the beginning, but he was pretty determined and so he found ways to get away and his parents slowly accepted it.

Is there anything else I'm missing?

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."

When I first read this thread's title, I immediately thought "Charles Wallace!" from A Wrinkle in Time. Ever read it?

NaNoWriMo 2007:
WHIZ-BANG FANTASTIC - 51,296 words (and counting!)

Oooh! Yes! I had forgotten about that... Great book... I'll have to re-read it...

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Current Project) Ceeror
Brain Recovery From November 07 ) 10%
Quote) "Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak."