Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 04:01:38 +0100

Hey, I like Nano, but I despise some of the rah-rahs that go along with it. I have given in to the fact that I am not a shiny happy person. I enjoy my cynicism. Super-positive people kinda creep me out a bit. Anyone here in the same boat?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

mrs_moesy — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:57:11 +0100

Are you my husband!? When did you change your handle honey?! He is a grumbly cynical pessimist and I am one of those annoyingly OMG THE WHOLE WORLD IS AMAZING!!!! type people. I believe the word he likes to use is curmudgeon, though. I mean, sure, I have my bad days, but for the most part, I'm pretty glass is half full. But hopefully, this won't be too insufferably rah-rah. But I'm chiming in for my darling curmudgeon with a "hey!"

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VirtuallyCJ — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 00:17:20 +0100

I am normally a grumbly crab apple, but I don't know, writing is the only thing I have ever been good at, so it is kind of like the one time of year I am able to rise above sub-mediocrity. Rah-rah-rah-ism kind of accidentally seeps out of me. I'll let you know if I loose a bunch of words during the course of the month though, that's usually good for a crab-ass set back.

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Jessindistress — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 02:43:09 +0100

I love you, and yes, I'm starting to get very irritated with the hoopla surrounding it. I love writing, and I love the idea of having a month to write a novel, blah-di-blah-di-blah, but the promotional stuff, the talk I've heard from some of recruiting people (in past years) and the... cult-like-ness of some people surrounding NaNo makes me roll my eyes at the least, and scares the crap out of me at the worst. Super happy people make me think "What are you covering up under the surface" or "Okay, you can afford copious amounts of cocaine... can you chop me out?" :P Or they make me think of Peewee Herman, who, yes, is quite creepy.

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Delyn — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 03:55:22 +0100

I consider myself a pessimist and a cynic. For the most part, optimists see what they want to see, realist see but don't accept, and pessimist expect and refuse to make excuses. I consider optimist to be delusional and/or on mind altering drugs, realist are constantly disappointed, but as a pessimist I expect the worst. So, I am not surprised when the worst happens and can, on a rare occasion, be pleasantly surprised when the it doesn't happen. I don't mind all the rah rah. I'm just not going to put on the pom poms. I can be encouraging without the plastered on smile. If fact, I am known to be a good listener. Just don't ask me questions if you don't want an honest answer, because that is what you will get. Tact and I are not close acquaintances. I try to follow the rule my mother taught me which is "if you can't say something nice..." I am a fairly quiet person. ;-)

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antongully — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:31:41 +0100

I used to think I was a pessimist but now I reckon it's probably just brain cancer making me act that way.

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Jedi Scaper — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 05:02:28 +0100

I don't think I can go so far as to profess to be a dyed in the wool curmudgeon, but I definitely have more of those days than not. Either way, I am FAR from the flighty, bouncy, happy kind of person who freaks out over everything. I honestly don't get the anxiety over this. I don't need pep talks. When you overdo that level of happy every day, it comes across as fake. Sorry. If I hit 50K, go me. I wouldn't have signed up if I wasn't serious about shooting for that goal, but what is the sense in spazzing over it? I set my personal goal at 60K so there :P If I don't make it... well yeah I'll be disappointed and ticked off, but my life will continue and I'll keep working on what I started. I got off to a slow start, but I am looking forward to some free time when I know I'll be able to concentrate better. Honestly... one of the biggest reasons I avoided this was because of all the hysterical anxiety everyone seemed to have. It turned me off. Glad I'm not alone in that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

yoghurtelf — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 09:17:10 +0100

I can be pretty cynical and sarcastic, but I do enjoy life and hope for/expect good things to happen. In the back of my head I always think things can go terribly wrong at any second. I call that realism, though :P

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JSR — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:32:42 +0100

I have difficulty going OTT over it, too. Last year I hit 50,000 words in 2 weeks and my first thought was - "I wonder if I can do 100,000". I guess I'm just a boring old git... :D

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

17Tracker — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:54:25 +0100

Speaking to a colleague yesterday who came to my classroom to hide from the boss and write for an hour. I don't remember the context of the conversation but she said "you're such a nice person." I stopped her and said "I'm really not a nice person, I just happen to like you." It was a rare moment of clarity for me. Count me in to the pissed off cynics camp.

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runner_penguin — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:56:55 +0100

There's a reason I'm not really associating with my regional group...and this is it. Well, this and they're usually all about the zombies or something.

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Kitsunegyrl — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 05:27:26 +0100

I am a misanthrope. I really do not like people and perky people tend to annoy the hell out of me.

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pencilcase — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:25:31 +0100

Cynics and pessimists (of which I am both) get a bad wrap. People often draw attention to it in a negative way which, unsurprisingly, annoys me. The main problem, I find, is that it is often mistaken for unhappiness. I am not an unhappy person. If life appears well, I won't necessarily jump for joy -- but internally there be a banquet in full flow I tell thee. Anyway, optimists and perkies are just closet cynics in reality. :) Happy Nanoing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

quietasdormidas — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:24:42 +0100

I can sympathize with people's pains, but not with their pleasure. There is something curiously boring about somebody else's happiness. - Aldous Huxley Ah, but what good would Ren be without Stimpy.

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Destructo the Mad — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:49:07 +0100

Cynical = realist Optimist = delusional

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Incorporal — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:53:17 +0100

Liking this thread. I was never happy-clappy even as a teenager so I'm not sure what the youngsters' excuse is. I hate stupid writing tips. Like, OMG, if your story is not working, stick a vampire in there!!!! YAHOO!! (rolls eyes so hard they fall out of head) I don't like regional forums anyway because the only thing we have in common is, we all live in the same area. To me, that's not enough to provide warm fuzzy feelings of community. Sometimes you want to associate with like-MINDED people (people who actually, like, have a MIND) and not the frathouse down the road.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:42:33 +0100

A great book to read for all of us here, I think, is: The big curmudgeon: 2500 Irreverently outrageous quotations form world-class grumps and cantankerous commentators. And, no, nobody is paying me to say this, I just liked the book and found myself nodding along quite often.

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snappyssidekick — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:16:02 +0100

Ha ha! Despite my cheerful avatar, I clicked on this because I was hoping for a little safe place to rant! I'm getting so annoyed with all these so-called writers nearly peeing their pants about copyright infringement. Jesus, people! You're supposed to be authors of fiction. Act like it. Grow a pair for God's Sake! I just saw someone ask if they could use the titles of real books in a scene where their characters go to a book store and someone told them to use public domain titles. Public domain. I'm not kidding. It is angering me. Why? I have no idea, but I'm seriously pissed off at the wussiness of kids today. They are so afraid of lawyers, they don't even know their own rights as writers of fiction. Sigh. That said, Nano is for the kids...isn't it. But why do we want to frighten them away with boogey men (aka copyright lawyers)? Rant over., Thanks.

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MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 00:19:59 +0100

I'm going to go out on a limb and rant for moment myself. It drives me nuts that there are so many people who are debating minutae. "What should my vampire character's name be?" or "I can't figure out what my chekov's gun should be." Just freakin write for Christ's sake. Quit worrying so much and write. You may even *gasp* write something original, instead of writing the same story that every angsty teenage has been writing for the last ten years! Ugh. Cliche frustrates me to no end.

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Gimmemocha — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 16:29:55 +0100

I like NaNo, I like the camraderie, I cannot STAND the "OMG we're SOOOoooo wacky! Aren't we crazy for doing this?! OMG! SOOOOOooo crazy!" crap. I went on a whole rant about NaNoers I hate in a blog post, in fact. I like going to some write-ins. Generally, I'm an introvert. My batteries get recharged spending time alone or maybe with one or two good friends. Large groups enervate me at best and outright piss me off at worst. But some write-ins are good. There's a quiet community of us, just sitting there typing away, sipping coffee. Maybe every once in awhile, someone makes a quick comment and we chat for about three minutes, then it's back to work. Then there are the write-ins that might as well be Tupperware parties, with drawings and stupid games and someone standing up and yelling "For the next 20 minutes, word sprint! Have a rabid wombat crash the scene you're writing right now!" OH, the hilarity! Yeah, shut the hell up before I ninja-throw my laptop at you. I'm trying to WRITE over here. I think I'll start naming the Write-Ins I host like they're created by Zoolander. "Write-Ins for Writers Who Just Want to Write and Stuff", that's what they'll be called.

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JocelynNano — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:24:56 +0100

I've been described as an optimist wrapped in a sticky layer of pessimism, but I'm sure I have an oozy cynical centre. I laughed a hell of a lot reading this thread. I'm over the people who ask questions on ref desk that are answered in the first line of wikipedia on their topic. I think the idea that Gen Y have been raised on groupwork, thus need consensus before proceeding has a lot of merit. I thought I was the only one frustrated by overzealous forum administrators - now I've found the club! ;) I'm tempted to ask what an ML and a WI is, but I know I should probably google it first. Then again, that would destroy the mystery... I spent the first three days of nano astounded by the number of people writing super cool hip-hop novels with multiple MCs.

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snappyssidekick — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:07:33 +0100

Oh jeeeeeez! Over in the reference desk, some kid asked what alcohol tasted like and what it was like to be drunk. Good, right? Ask, don't go out and underage drink, right?. Then this other kid comes in and says, I never really drank, but I tasted wine once, so here are my experiences. The kid goes on for about six paragraphs about how yucky wine is. Really? There are 91, 000 other writers online, and you somehow think that YOU, Miss Sippy Mc Yuck Yuck, are the expert that this kid needs to clog up the first ten inches of his thread? God! The whole thing would've been pure comedy if I wasn't such a POC.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:25:40 +0100

What gets my goat a little, is all the excessive complaining about writing that is going on. 'This thing kept me away from doing it, then that thing. And it is all so unfair!' I think we all have our off days and I don't mind an occasional vent or rant. Heck, I even like to encourage people who have a hard time and are civil about it. But you have to put things into perspective. The time you spent on making 5 more complain threads could have been spent on your novel, maybe? Also if it is such a drag and you really don't like doing it, you don't have to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. (I hope.) You can walk away anytime.

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MBee — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:37:48 +0100

Not all WIs are like game shows. I've hosted several over the past couple of years and while there is often some talking, it's more people asking advice or having a writing related question. I guess I wouldn't mind some of the stupid shit if it was kept to a minimum in the beginning or something. I get that some people need those kinds of bring them out and whatever. Some people need strange things for motivation, especially the younger writers who aren't necessarily as serious as us "adults". I can't complain too much about the kids though because as a teacher it seems like writing is the worst punishment you can give kids these days. They moan and groan as if I took away their video games and so many of them lack any kind of imagination. It's sad, so when I see the teens at write ins it makes me kind of happy. If they're really annoying, the headphones go in :P

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bibliosylph — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:10:01 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] "I can't figure out what my chekov's gun should be." [/quote] HAHhahahaaah, I hate that. I made my annual mistake of "joining" literary fiction. But this year I started my own thread to discuss the meaning of it, because I cannot stand the annual "Everyone dies in my book and it's all hopeless and very very meaningful so do I belong here" thread. A number of people still seem to take the moniker far too literally or concretely or seriously, but I did get a bit of good discussion and feedback. Yet still, the threads of "is it okay to have a happy ending in lit fic" and "which unbelievably pretentious book lists can you reference" and "can I still call it lit fic if there is a PLOT?" pile up onto each other... I am both a very serious and completely not at all serious person. I don't know that I'm really a cynic. Maybe I'm an optimistic cynic, if that is possible. What I am never is a super high energy person. Group Think nauseates me, as does needing approval from others for the thoughts that go on in my own head. Perhaps Lyria2 is right, in that the younger set, under 30, I guess (I'm the oldest of Generation X, don't know where the other end is,) has an approval-seeking nature in general, but my thought is that we had it too, it just didn't surround us in the virtual cloud, so we outgrew it earlier. Also, we weren't taught that our every notion and opinion must be shared and listened to and accepted. Which meant that we had more stuff to figure out on our own without consulting the whole web about it first... /putting my cane down now...

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MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:21:32 +0100

REALLY, GAY VAMPIRES, REALLY?! REALLY? AND THEY'RE VAMPIRES?! AND THEY'RE GAY?! REALLY?! Jumped-up Jesus Mephisto Christ on an Indian elephant, what the hell? Excuse me while I put a shotgun in my mouth. /facepalm

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Gimmemocha — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 17:08:02 +0100

Here's another of the things that I see in NaNo that drives me apeshit: Thinly veiled pleas for validation. Now, I kinda like some of the "post your _____ here" things. Like, first lines, I get that. Last lines, that's weirdly motivating for me for some reason. But let's face it, the majority of these "post your synopsis/magic system/character names" -- CHARACTER NAMES, people -- are really nothing at all to do with wanting to know what other people are doing or even giving a high holy crap about other people's stuff. They're about "Please read this and tell me I don't suck." No. No, I will not read it and tell you that you don't suck, especially if I read it and it sucks. But you can't say that to people on NaNo boards, you can't even say it tactfully. "I've read your list of character names and I'm not entirely sure that a reading audience will want to put up with 300 pages of the adventures of Kyalania, T'vari'an, and Lithianore," will only cause wailing and weeping and someone telling you that you are, in their considered opinion, a poopie head. I know we all need support, and we all need a pat on the back every now and then. But, great flaming dingus eggs, just ASK for it. Don't veil it and try not to look as desperate as you are. It will only make you look more desperate plus pathetic that you can't cowgirl up and admit that you're having one of Those Moments of self-doubt.

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CarrieClothwright — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 17:47:49 +0100

this thread is making me feel better. I was starting to have moments of wondering if I'm not a "real" NaNo-er because I don't have a fantasy world, vampires, or werewolves. the other thing I've found puzzling is the number of posts I've read about people who say they don't know what they are writing about or can't decide... I get it that there's a book called "No Plot, no Problem", which I haven't read, so maybe I'm missing out on the pure genius of how NaNo is supposed to work. I know that characters can start doing weird things and become different people than you expected them to be. I understand how what you thought was going to be slapstick turns into tragedy or contrariwise. But to just start writing without a situation or a vague idea of where you want to go puzzles me. I mean, it could be fun, but personally I'm not sure I'd commit a month to it just because it was on the internet, iykwim. This is my first NaNo, so maybe it's just newbie ignorance?

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ali_marea — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 17:53:00 +0100

I wish I had started posting in this area sooner. You are my kind of people. Now I will admit to being rah-rah for a couple of close friends. But that's because this is their first year and they are good writers. I want them to know someone gives a crap that they're writing. Beyond that, though, I am a lot more of a 'meh' person when it comes to the hype. I love NaNo. But I love it because I get into my writing and get inside my head more. It gives me a deadline and that's when I write best. I can't get into meetups or write-ins because, really, I don't want people around me while I'm trying to write. Or, if there have to be people around, I certainly don't want them trying to talk to me. What's the point of that? If I'm going to put my headphones on and zone out to write, which I am, then what is the point in being with a bunch of people trying to get excited about writing? I don't need to get excited about writing. It's the one thing I've never needed to get excited about because it's my passion. Oh, and yeah, I don't get all the questions either. I do like the adopt a plot threads because they spark ideas for me. But even this year, I liked one, said I'd use it and tweak it, etc. and I'm still going with my own idea instead. Anyway, the questions...the constant 'what does this feel like, what would this person say, etc.' I cannot deal. Who's writing my story? Me or someone else? If it's me then I better know what the hell my characters would say or do or feel. Anyway, yeah. Less shiny happy, more dark and brooding...without the emo. That's me. I do hate writer's block, though. I might get a bit whiny when that happens.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:10:28 +0100

Ha ha ha! You know what I could totally go rah rah OTT about? This thread. I was not surprised by the craziness you guys have pointed out, though. My sister's been doing this from the beginning (and I thought she was completely insane until AFTER I won my first Nano). She went to the opening parties every year (they were walking distance from our place) and one year, early on, it must have been the second year, she came home with this very disturbed look on her face. She told me that she was talking to some guy about plots and characters and what not for a good ten minutes before realizing that he was writing a FURRY novel. Furry. Uh yeah, she backed away slowly. I figured that was just the nature of San Francisco but I've come to realize that it's the nature of the BEAST. I need to come to terms with the fact that I have dedicated myself to a profession where the 105th freakiest thing to come out of it is a novel about stuffed animals who like to get it on...and that those Gay Vampire Novels might just get published before mine does. I'm okay with all that. I really am, but sometimes I need to complain about it.

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pencilcase — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:07:01 +0100

...the adventures of Kyalania, T'vari'an, and Lithianore I switch off the moment I read these kind of names. I'm not remotely interested in what happened to the "Vanishing Sword of Blonthumenn when he fought H'rentuv at the battle of Algornd..." Sorry, but I'm just not. And the moment a Phoenix or such a creature is introduced, my eye-balls roll into the back of my head in a desperate attempt of preserving my limited and already under fire sanity.

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Incorporal — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:53:06 +0100

Guys, sooooo, name my character's hamster! He's sort of white and grey and really cute and hyper. Here's a picture of what he kind of looks like. But, you know, except, he is like way older now. I just CAN'T write the rest of my novel without knowing what his name is! PLS PLS PLS guys give me some names. Nano is hard enough already with my mom saying I'm wasting my time on a stupid story and my little brother making fun of my noveling hat! PLS PLS some suggestions, I'll die if I don't have his name, like RIGHT NOW!!!!! *dies* And then once I have some name suggestions, can you guys all pick the best one for me???

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:36:41 +0100

Hmmm. Yesterday I was totally feeling it, but today, I have to admit I'm feeling cynical about cynics. Isn't all this hating just the anti-rah? I mean if we stretch it all out on a spectrum, surely it does that horseshoe thing, you know, like where the left and right of politics start looking similarly nutty? I guess I'm all for cynicism, but I just want to know we're not just an emo over reaction to pink fairy wings. (Maybe I'm just not pissed off enough?)

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wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 10:02:25 +0100

Firstly, I want to say, all of you are my kinda Special Snowflake! This whole thread had me giggling. TG I'm not the only one who feels this way! For me, the forums were something I didn't have time for in years past. Oh but NaNo felt different for me this year soooo... I made the mistake of poking my head around. /facepalm I have 6 kids, 3 are teenaged girls... they love their Yaoi fanfiction (but they aren't too stupid about it) and that said, some of the crap I've been seeing makes my brain bleed, even with my higher tolerance levels! [Writing Buddies] Adopt a Kitsune?? (õ_o) Please god no. Stop. I'm old school Otaku... but just... stop. --Throw down, write, WIN!, edit later. This is the NaNo code.-- What is this overwhelming need for validation? Why does your character need a favorite color... and why are you asking me? Okay. I feel old and crotchety now - thanks forums. DIAF. The rest of you... are made of pure awesome and have renewed my fondness for being one of the non-perky-happy-shinny people!

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graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:55:50 +0100

Can we make this a separate group next year instead of just a thread? This is my first year and I'm SO glad I found you all. (I'm 28 and I get along better with 30 somethings, but have a tolerance for kids....not 20 somethings.... teenagers) I enjoy the games and the chatting, but I'm finding that so many of these uber enthusiastic people have written maybe a thousand words over the last 8 days. So I really don't see how all of the cheerleading is helping other than to take up time that they could be writing. I read somewhere that you can't lose with pessimism (perhaps an optimistic view of it, ironically). Either you're right or you're pleasantly surprised. I hold that quote close to my heart. My sob story: I feel mediocre at everything I do. Everyone is a writer. I'm not trying to get published, but I know several people with delusions of grandeur who are writing novels (think non-educated, unemployed, fortysomething single mothers who think they can write like JK Rowling)...so when I get excited about something as trivial as this, no one cares. My husband has no interest in the arts, so he balked at me writing a story saying I could put the time to better use (because exercising the mind isn't a good way to spend time). So the moral of my story is you just have to shut up and write. No one cares about your hobbies and no one else is going to be support for you. You have to sit on your butt and do it or don't. But don't go looking to others to pat you on the back, support you, cheer you on. In the end it's your own motivation that lets you succeed or fail. I haven't been to any write-ins. Not sure I'm really that much of a people person.

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graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:07:18 +0100

It would be nice, though, to know whether or not I'm a good writer. Just out of curiosity.

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snappyssidekick — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:25:19 +0100

Ugh. The only thing that's pissing me off in the forums today is me. I need to get out of them. I need to stop answering every question I know the answer to, stop asking stupid questions I don't need the answer to and get freaking writing! No one rah rah me. I'll just kick my own butt back to the wordcount!

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zenken — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:25:59 +0100

Wait until we get to the end of the month where we get to bitch about how some people typed '99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall' for 20k of their novel.... :)

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rosymamacita — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:30:57 +0100

Can I join? I don't think I'm a pissed off cynic... mostly, and have elements of being an optimist... to a point. I'm more of a hermit, and I'm ok with that. I can't handle many of the other forums because they are over run with teenyboppers and silliness. I fully support their right to write novels, but I don't want to read those novels and I don't want to listen to the nonsense that goes on around the nanoing. I always end up on the 30-40s forum for some adult conversation. Even then, when I start feeling contrary about certain topics, I'm just going to get the hell out. I will offer help to people who are having trouble with their creativity. I'm a teacher, I'll help. But then I'm going to close the door on them because I'm here for my own writing not to teach the kids. My writing time is too valuable and too rare for me to play nano games. Yeah, not really cynical, possibly curmudgeonly, but I'd like to join anyway. I might get contrary with you too, but I think you all can take it. Mostly you are funny. I kept looking for the like button. We really need a like button on these fora.

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Scratchingcat — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:01:40 +0100

All right, the reason why I came in here this morning: I don't think I can handle another official pep talk email. All of them say that what I've written so far is utter crap. Useless, stupid, stinky crap. But just keep going, tralala. Well, I don't know about you, but I happen to like my story. I think it's not all crap. Yes, I know the Anne Lamotte mantra of the shitty first draft and you will need to edit and edit and edit again. However, not all of it is bad. There are good sentences in there, the story is moving forward and so far everything makes sense. I might hit a wall tomorrow and will fill pages with "Bob is my uncle and I want to give up.", but that hasn't happened yet. So please, well meaning, published person on the other end, don't tell me everything I wrote is crap. That is more discouraging than anything else.

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studentofrhythm — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:44:37 +0100

Hmpf.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:19:02 +0100

I don't understand the constant litany of "Never hit backspace!", "[verb] your Inner Editor!", "It doesn't matter what you write, just get to 50k!", "Stuck? Throw in a [adjective] [noun] to spice it up! That's good for at least [number]k!". Fifty thousand words is a lot of words compared to, say, a grocery list or a High School essay, but it's a far cry from being the impossible challenge that so many on these forums seem to make it out to be. It's not a novel, and it's only a rough draft of a novel if you're okay with the idea that your 'rough draft' contains half or less of the material - scene by scene and idea by idea - that will make it into the final work. And maybe you're okay with that. It's your deal and far be it from me to tell anyone they're wrong in their writing method. But what is the point of spending a month writing half a novel of pure shit? If you don't think that what you're writing is any good, or if you're going about the process in such a way that you *know* you'll have to edit with a hatchet and fill cracks with a cement truck, what are you doing? Proving that you can string together words into basically coherent, if disconnected, sentences and paragraphs that amount to 50 thousand words? To what end? The first time that I 'won' was two years ago, and I felt really good about myself afterward. I'd written a 100k word novel in under a month that, ignoring grammar and spelling, needed a little pacing work and some filling in of crevices in the plot; something I thought that someone might actually want to read in a couple of drafts, and something that I would be at least willing to Let someone read right then, to tell me where the pacing and plot crevices were most egregious. That felt like an accomplishment to me. Like I'd achieved the 'write a book one day' dream I'd had for however many years. Now I'm trying to do it again and I find myself unwilling to tell people I'm participating in nanowrimo. I'm still proud of what I'm doing, and if I finish another novel like the first then I'll be all warm and fuzzy about that, but the "just shove words onto digital pages and it doesn't matter what they are!" attitude of so many participants turns me off hard enough that I don't want to be associated with it. And I think that's sad, because, fundamentally, what we're doing here is a good thing, and something people should feel genuinely accomplished by doing. It shouldn't be a Facebook love-in of people telling each other how special they are and how it doesn't matter that they can't string together two scenes to save their lives where. Those people, the ones who really have no plot and who come running to the forums every 200 words, when the month is over, aren't going to polish their drafts. Most likely they won't even think about their novel again until next November; they'll just move on to the next quick hit of validation and congratulation. And I know it shouldn't bother me. Writing is an individual affair, and your motivations and goals are your own, but I like the idea of nanowrimo and I want to like the execution. I just don't.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

studentofrhythm — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 22:47:17 +0100

This might get me kicked off this thread, but for a lot of participants, this could be more about either the exercise of discipline or a form of therapy or at least self-analysis than actually producing something that could be sold as fiction. I like to think that at least some of the really boring, predictable and otherwise bad writing that pours out during November can be usefully compared to a student's assignments in a writing class. More broadly, I think just about all of NaNoWriMo's byproducts serve as interesting documentation. Individual novels could offer insight into an individual's psyche as well as point out how much they need to learn about writing. And a large enough corpus of NaNo novels could give insight into all sorts of group dynamics, especially if authors' forum posts could be linked to their novels. Maybe this is completely impractical, but being an archivist I've wondered if something approaching this could be made to work. At least if anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists found some use for people's bad novel drafts, it could redeem what would otherwise remain unread and unreadable.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:31:10 +0100

I think that's all great, and actually agree with all three posts above this one. I don't think most of us have a real complaint with NaNoWriMo itself. It's basically awesome. We want to be here. I love being here. I just don't love the free-for-all orgiastic goings-on in some of it. Well, fine, let 'em do their thing. I'm all about liberty and being young and all. But I also don't love the super melodramatic self-conscious pride of self I see in much of it. That's grown a lot over the past 3 or 4 years. I feel less fine about it because it points to a larger societal thing that is just really pissing me off lately and making me want to hide out with my turntable and bourbon bottle and old LIFE magazines. Otherwise, I mean, sure. Go NaNo! Whoo! Let's All Write Like Mad!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:18:02 +0100

Not trying to fan any dying embers of rage here, but I saw a posting in The Reference Desk that said, "Does Olive Garden have take-out?" I resisted the urge to answer with, "I don't know, but I know it has a website." and came here instead, like an alcoholic to an AA meeting. Thanks for being here!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:23:02 +0100

I think the pep talk that annoyed me the most so far was that "It's week two, and you either hate your characters or your plot by now..." one. No, I don't. Actually I only hate the fact that there are parts of the story I HAVE to write before I can get up to the FUN stuff. Certain things need to be established before mayhem can ensue, and that can be pretty boring. But it certainly doesn't make me hate either my plot OR my characters.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:28:02 +0100

Yes, when I see stuff like, Throw a ninja in your novel, a tiny, but blood-curdling battle cry goes off in my head screamin "not in my novel!"

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

ali_marea — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:33:10 +0100

I'm pissed off that people seem to come up with really lame, cliche, ridiculous ideas and go running with it and I sit here arguing with myself about whether or not this idea can be fully formed into a novel. We're in, what, week 2? I have less than 200 words written. Not because I'm editing, because I'm not writing. Once I start I'll take off. Seriously, I type really fast (like 132 wpm at my best) and when I'm on a roll I can write around 10k in a day. Now if I'm at this point in another week, I'm screwed. Meanwhile, I love my long-term idea but it isn't fleshed out enough yet for me to feel like I can start rolling. I keep thinking of re-starting with a different idea, but I don't have lots of random ideas at the moment. I'm having serious writer's block and it bugs me that there are so many 'just do this, just put song lyrics in your novel, just have a long conversation, blah, blah, blah' suggestions out there. I dont' want to write crap. I want to write a good novel. Right now all my ideas seem to have vanished. Ok, going off to be pissy elsewhere...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:04:23 +0100

I like NaNo. But it does seem that everyone is a writer nowadays....and everyone is a musician (plays 4 chords on the guitar), and a photographer. Everything is art, so nothing is art. Everyone is special so no one is special. It makes me want to strangle someone.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Gimmemocha — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:43:20 +0100

Ok, here I take a stand against my fellow cynics. Everyone SHOULD write. Everyone. Write, write, write. It (eventually) helps learn grammar, it encourages creativity, it encourages dreaming and FFS the world needs dreams now more than ever. It teaches people to express themselves and it can teach them different ways to express the same things. But not everyone should publish, and that is why I'm so very, very happy that there are agents and editors. Self-pub is a reeking cesspool of bad fanfic and that's why no one takes self-pub books seriously. Even if they happen to be good and just somehow didn't find an agent or a publishing house, the fact that they're self-pub makes them utter crap. So as long as crappy writers keep trying to publish, I want gatekeepers standing between me and the flood of diarrhea these people produce.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

sparkoflove — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:53:31 +0100

Now I feel like the downer coming in and raining on everyone's parade by being optimistic, but whatever. That's what this thread is for, right? (Venting, that is. And being cynical. Well, I'm about to be cynical about cynical people. Whoa.) I'm a person who is pretty enthusiastic, but I wouldn't say I am delusional. I understand the real world -- I also understand cynicism, pessimism, and realism. But I guess I want to say that just because a person is visibly excited about something, well, it doesn't make them stupid or ditzy or vapid. And about the write-ins? I mean, why go if all you are going to do is be quiet anyway and/or silently cuss people out for being - gasp - social? I always thought the point of the NaNo write-ins was to create community. I get my writing done at home and do some writing at write-ins, but mostly I'm looking to meet new people who have some common interests. I like talking and getting to know people. What's so wrong with that? And if the socializing really bothers you, then why not go to any cafe, any bookstore, any public library and just write? You still get out of the house AND people won't speak to you. And also, about this whole "If it starts getting more rah-rah, then I'd just rather not be associated with it" thing? Well, isn't that precisely the reason why you should let people know you are involved with NaNo? That it's not just one type of person doing this? That not everyone is writing 50,000 words of non-sense? Wouldn't it be great if people knew that a viable first draft could come out of this? That an original story with well-developed characters and a solidly structured plot is something that people not only CAN strive for, but should? And I don't get why it bothers people so much to see other people have their own interpretation of what NaNo is. So what if people want to add a bunch of ninjas or vampires to their story? Is it original? No. But why does it bother you so much that other people enjoy that? Finally -- or maybe not finally, but I just feel like ending this post on this -- it seems like a lot of people on this thread just don't get that other people can be GENUINELY enthusiastic, happy-go-lucky, optimistic, etc. It's not fake, it's not a show. And just because someone isn't 100% optimistic all of the time, it doesn't mean that they are HIDING or living some big lie. But for me, I find that being optimistic is fun. Sure, being pessimistic means you may not get let down or you might end up being pleasantly surprised, but perhaps being optimistic is almost like the same thing. You may get let down, but boy, it was a fun ride before you got there. And if most of life is the journey, rather than the destination, then it seems to me that being optimistic is not that bad. But of course I would say that -- I mean, it's what us delusional people do, right?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:55:43 +0100

Hmmm. I admit I've not been paying a stack of attention to the emails, but are you telling me the ninjas are meant to be... well... literal? I'd assumed they were metaphorical and substitutions were allowed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 13:04:42 +0100

I think the terms and definitions are sometimes obfuscated when describing cynicism. Although some cynics are pessimists, the reverse is not always true. We all have some modicum of optimism, I guess we show it in different ways. The terms extrovert or introvert might be more appropiate in this case. The two are obviously at odds, and often delight in pointing out these apparent differences; the irony being, that underneath it all, we're probably more similar than we give each other credit for. Also, I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't write if we're not taking it seriously or intending to publish. That's a nonsense. If we only did things with a view of reaching the pinnacle of that activity, most of us would spend our lives sitting on our hands and waiting for the ticking of life to pass us by.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Gimmemocha — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:43:11 +0100

There's a difference between going to a write-in where there's quiet chatting and mutual complaining about writing and going to a write-in where you're expected to stand up and loudly declare that you're being tormented by a plot bunny so that you can put on the ML-sanctioned Bunny Ears of Shame and everyone stops for a good laugh. I am not exaggerating this incident. I like write-ins where writers write and communicate. I do not like write-ins that are desperate, overly loud, trying too hard to be clever, and are the next best thing to game shows. If you think I HAVE to like the latter or "why do you even go to write-ins", allow me to introduce you to my plump white buttocks. Pick a cheek and pucker up. There is a middle ground between going to an episode of Let's Make a Deal with laptops and not going to any write-in ever because you're an antisocial poopiehead.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

brimcrob — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:54:15 +0100

The wife thinks I am mad but she putting up with me disappearing for two hours an evening...Told a couple of my colleuges that I am doing this and they seem quite impressed, but also think I am nuts. Think I am getting into swing of it. Noticed today I don't have any chapters...its just one big splurge...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:53:16 +0100

[quote=brimcrob]Noticed today I don't have any chapters...its just one big splurge...[/quote] Splurdage is wordage..

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 04:36:54 +0100

I have no chapters...yet. That's stuff for later.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:22:55 +0100

I am so glad I finally wandered into this area and stumbled upon this thread. I actually came to the 30-40 area today for the first time ever, just because I needed a moment of maturity. Don't care about the topic, just need someone who is not 15 and whining about everything under the sun. Is it wrong that sometimes I just wanna tell the kids to STFU? One whined about having to write AND go to school. Sorry kid, I work 50 hours a week, do almost 20 hours of roller derby per week and still manage to find time to watch our TV shows with my husband, go grocery shopping AND write. Granted, my word count might be lagging at this time, but I've done this and ScriptFrenzy every year and I have yet to NOT make my word/page count. Sometimes it's due to a burst at the end of the month, but that's my method. Everything percolates in my head and then spills out as fast as possible once my brain has made all the connections. So you having to go to school from 8-3 every day is laughable to me. Another early teen in the horror forum posted this snarky message to someone who DARED to post THEIR plot summary in HER thread where she asks people to rate her story. Really? REALLY? You start a thread for people to rate plots and then don't want anyone BUT you to post a plot in it? Come ON. I considered rating her plot very low (which it kinda really was a pretty low rating already in my eyes) JUST because of her attitude. I'm lucky. I'm in two regions and one has a very awesome, very mature ML. He'll post encouragements, but not every day and definitely not OMG YAY RAH RAH RAH stuff. I enjoy his encouragements. They're witty and fun. The other region is HUGE and covers an entire metro area AND all surrounding suburbs on all three sides (the fourth side is Canada) and things are entirely scattered. Now I'm not going to snap about that, as I ML ScriptFrenzy and I have the whole area but I am THE ONLY ML IN THE STATE for that, but if you can get more people to step up and help, narrow it down a bit by region. I'm tired of getting an email a day harping that I'm not going to the midway point party that is taking place over an hour from where I live on a night I have two other commitments. I've found a weekday write-in that I can pop into during my lunch break. It's usually good for 20 or so mins of writing and a few mins of chatting and I tend to get in about 300-400 words in that burst. So that's not too bad. I do most of my writing during breaks at work. There's less OMG YAY at the ones I go to and more a sense of quiet community. Even when we talk it's not crazy amounts of it and it's usually very amiable chatting between quiet thoughtful bursts of typing by all of us. I enjoy the like-mindedness of it and it usually revives me on some level. Also I get competitive and don't want everyone ELSE to get a bunch of words and not me, ya know? So that helps. It's less the WIs and more the forums that irritate me. I'm so glad I am not alone.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:52:34 +0100

The people I know do mean literal ninjas. About which I know almost nothing. When my characters need nothings to say they talk about donuts, pie, Scotch, music and baseball. Stuff I know about. They are my own "tropes" and how I'm beginning to hate that word, and I'm okay with them. I liked the latest pep talk. It hit me where I live. And it had no bunnies in it. I've never understood that bunny thing actually, and please no one explain it to me. It just said write all the interesting exciting parts and leave out the skimmed-over detail. I needed that. I'm on my phone so I can't see who it was who felt the need to champion the diversity of NaNo. That isn't the point and none of us is questioning that. We're just uncomfortable with an odd consuming energy that has been developing, and the idea that writing 50k words like we're monkeys with typewriters is really the same thing as trying to write a book.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:32:47 +0100

[quote=MattHawthornelsAMyth]Stuff tastes like the inside of Joseph Goebbels' trousers. (I'd imagine)[/quote] Glad you clarified at the end there...this would be a difficult piece of knowledge to explain away.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:43:57 +0100

I made the mistake of looking in the 'So I have this thing called homework' thread. Am I actually understanding correctly that people are putting writing their NaNo novel above passing a class? When, exactly, did I turn into a grumpy old 'you damned kids get off my lawn!' type? I'm not going back there. I'm too worried I might comment... I'm also not going to my regional forum or any Write-Ins. I'm around enough people during the day at work, forced to smile and be nice to idiots. WHY on earth would I want to be around people when I'm working on writing? Ugh. Just thinking about it makes my skin crawl. Seems the older I get, the more I in the INTP I get...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:10:30 +0100

Sometimes I think I like my characters more than the people I meet.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:09:48 +0100

What's really pissing me off right now is that I can never find the latest posts in this here thread. *slowly backs away and looks for the chill pills*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 05:43:16 +0100

Here is my cynical thought for the day. If we could write 50 000 words without the nanofuss we would have done it in June.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:18:43 +0100

Man, I went over to the Reaching 50,000 and Plot Doctoring fora... Deep Hurting. I do feel bad about the people who struggle to get to 5k, let alone 50k. In my second year of nano, I got busy and demotivated and lost about... a two weeks of writing. Right down to the wire, I spent 3 days writing about 40k, because goddammit I was not going to give up after setting a goal for myself. It was not my best writing, but there were a lot of good portions in there, and I had set up nicely to go right into the final book of the trilogy. I had the barest of outlines, and it was by far the hardest nano for me to do. I'll never do that again. The first and third nanos were well outlined and this nano is about the same. I need the skeleton of a story to be able to write it. I have a couple of chapters that are completely rewritten and a couple more that are dropped midway through writing because they did not drive the plot. It's likely post 50,000, I'll start trimming those chapters out and making sure the rest of the story is told from beginning to end. Nano has let me train myself to be able to write a fairly rough yet complete story in a month. I'm not a writer by trade, so I don't do this all the time. Still I enjoy it immensely and I hope my writing goes somewhere.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 22:15:03 +0100

Okay, now we must talk about this! http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/34531 Or at least you all must look at this and tell me that I didn't just make it up in my own fever-addled, nano-muddled brain. I mean COME ON! My brain just tried to eat my eyes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:25:25 +0100

For the record, I went to a write-in today and found it much the way I did last year: very enjoyable and low-key. Maybe I just got lucky!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 04:36:26 +0100

I'm going to make a thread called "I'm Good Enough, Smart Enough, and Dog Gonit, People Like Me" for all those wussbags who can't seem to get their self-esteem in check. Rant of the day to follow: You're a writer. Awesome. You're shirking your responsibilities to write a book? Great. You want people to tell you that you're a good person because you shirk your responsibilities? Yeah, not going to happen. There are consequences for every action. If you miss your kid's dance recitals because you are writing, you're being selfish. If you forget your wife's birthday because you're writing, you're being selfish. If you sit on the couch and lock all the doors an turn off the phone, you're being selfish. People need to get over the fact that sometimes we all are a little selfish. Sometimes we are entitled to do exactly what we want to do without having to deal with someone judging us. If we spread ourselves too thin or give in to other people on a constant basis then we have nothing left for ourselves. I spent exactly 2 hours writing today and made very little progress on my book. I did, however, taste test my new batches of home brew, smoked a bowl of fantastic English tobacco our of one of my Kaywoodies, put on pants, took off my pants, put on a shirt, took off a shirt, took a nap, ate some microwave shrimp lo-mein, pet my cats, went to the pharmacy, made coffee for myself, drank said coffee, listened to the new Tom Waits album, read the first few pages of the new Murakami novel, and slid around the kitchen in my socks like I was trying out for the Bruins right wing. All of that was selfish. I'm okay with that. I don't feel guilty in the least, because I did exactly what I wanted to do. You should never feel guilty for that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:23:53 +0100

OG = Original gravity FG = Final Gravity Racking is moving beer from one vessel (carboy) to another via a hose. You rack beer to remove sediment and yeast. When you nail FG and OG you get an accurate measurement of what the alcohol content of the beer is going to be and allow yeast to convert all pre-fermentation sugars to alcohol. When you #LIKEABOSS it means you talked to corporate and approved some memos. /translation complete.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:30:13 +0100

I hope I lit a fire over at the Procrastinating thread....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:52:57 +0100

I didn't get much written on Sunday, because my other half and I were dealing with a 20+ pound pumpkin we got from work. We have spicy pumpkin lamb soup, frozen pumpkin mush, refrigerated pumpkin chunks, Old Bay roasted pumpkin seeds, and MORE frozen pumpkin mush. I also have an obscenely low word count. But, much better that than a rotting 20+ pound gourd sitting in our kitchen! O_o Meanwhile, INTPs for the win (no fist bumps or mandatory talking to strangers required)!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:53:44 +0100

Oh, and I would REALLY love an edit button, because i forgot to add the amazingly sore shoulder and back spasms to my list of accomplishments for the day... -.-

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:21:31 +0100

Ok, I have a complaint. I'm getting tired of people picking my comments apart, and getting all offended over some obscure thing I said that wasn't even the main point of what I was talking about. In the "Want to reach 50k? Ignore the current pep talk!" thread, a woman was offended because I didn't list every conceivable reason why someone would write a NaNovel, other than to get published! And this isn't the first time someone's snapped at me out of left field! Is it just the way I put things? Or are people just getting snippity now that it's the half-way mark? D:<

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:33:14 +0100

My cynical thought for the day: why the F must we have Christmas displays before Thanksgiving? (yes, thank you, I know the answer: crass commercialism, gullibility, and the capitalistic creed that all of us need more stuff, always). My next NaNo plot: crazy spinster lady without cats gets upset at early Christmas displays and harnesses the power of teenage dropouts to break into stores and wipe clean the displays. Or maybe goes around town murdering shopkeepers who succumb to the dubious charms of tinsel and fake snow and blow-up Santas before the end of November.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Incorporal — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:30:59 +0100

"I quit because my friends don't like my novel." Ser..no, seriously...? Dost mine eyes deceive me? We all have to start somewhere, but I can't take the amateurs any more, Lord love them.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:54:20 +0100

Hey, I'm totally an amateur. But I can't be too bothered by what other people think of what I do. Who put them in charge, anyway? As to holidays, moved here in July, this place just oozes "we preciously think we're a half a cut above everyone else," so imagine my surprise when the neighbors turned on their Christmas lights last night, in both their front and back yard. I mean, they are really nice lights. But so many! And so soon! And they were playing Christmas music in Kohl's at the beginning of the month. Really wasn't expecting to hear Andy Griffith just yet. My 13 year-old son dragged me out to see it and said, "Oh, it is so on." I don't mind indulging the baby of six a little bit, and stuff's mad cheap here compared to where he's been growing up. But I'm really good with waiting a couple more weeks... Of course they'll have more fun viewing the neighborhood just west of here, the kind of area where the ranch houses will have those giant inflatable penguins and things taller than their garages? That would never do over here...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 20:57:31 +0100

Hey, I should have used BB brackets instead of html ones; I was trying to signal to you that I was aware I'd just started blather on, but they disappeared, all code-like...and here I am doing it again.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:21:09 +0100

I can understand that some people's google-fu is not strong, but there are two different threads in the Reference Desk asking things about airplane flights that you could discover in roughly 30 seconds on expedia or travelocity. And while I'm being curmudgeonly about Those Darn Lazy Kids, what's the point of a 10 minute word-sprint? Seriously? 10 minutes? I could maybe see doing it at a write-in (if I went to write-ins, and if I understood the idea about word-sprints in the first place), but the forum section dedicated to that stuff is full of people organizing online activities that probably took 3 times longer to organize than they actually lasted.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:45:17 +0100

Now and then I'll tell myself to write a certain amount each hour for four hours. When I meet the hour's goal I can take a break or keep going. I'd not enjoy that if I were pitted against others. I'd just be pissed off at their need for comparison and yay, I win, and cajoling and junk. People do seem to enjoy that sort of thing so I don't have a problem with it as long as they don't try to emotionally penalize me for not joining in. I like games and puzzles because I like the interplay, mind exercise, etc. I don't give a crap who wins as long as it was intellectually satisfying. My motivation is in forming the interesting words more than in the score. In this case, for the word count, I compete with others, but against only myself.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:13:28 +0100

Ugh. Yeah, some days we need more help than others. This morning, I was hard-core procrastinating. My sister posted this: http://writtenkitten.net on Facebook. I wrote 100 words...and I got Angry Kitten. Okay...next 100...happy kitten? Will write for kittens

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:48:53 +0100

My pants-hiked-up senior moments on this board usually involve the kids who want everyone to tell them it's okay to stop writing because the NaNo thing has been eating into their much more valuable PS3 time. "Why shouldn't I feel like I accomplished something even if I couldn't be arsed to accomplish anything?" I'm all for giving someone a pep talk so they can buckle down and get their draft written. If busy moms or conscientious students work like the devil and still don't finish, that's nothing to be ashamed of. But you want to be patted on the back for texting your BFF for four solid hours instead of actually writing? Fuck you. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Diane Keys — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 02:41:59 +0100

Okay. You guys have ruined the forums for me. I had a vague dissatisfaction with my genre forum, but didn't have the knowledge, ability or desire to identify why it was bothering me. Lo and behold. Y'all nailed it on the head. With forum posts like "Is it too soon..." and "How long do they wait?" and "can a man write a romance novel..." I was getting aggravated. I. Am. Home.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Diane Keys — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 05:36:25 +0100

Why thank you, kind sir. I do have to say I have tried to play well with others this month, but some of the forums are seriously testing my patience. I don't think anyone who knows me on Facebook would even know I was the same person. "Shit starter" has been a handle I answer to most.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:41:59 +0100

That last reply so didn't end up where I wanted it to end up...Meh, the forum can deal with it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:52:16 +0100

I'm a few years shy of 30, but can I join the cynics club? ...I'll bring beer.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:52:40 +0100

I agree with you guys 100% about the amped-up-kid vibe. I'm here to learn good writing habits and hopefully get a decent rough draft to work on later. But I've been told by a mod that people don't come here to learn. It's just fun! So the very notion that this is an exercise in learning about the hard work of writing is oddly irrelevant. A also agree that the write-don't-think attitude is of no use to me. I'm sort of methodical in my writing, and I'd rather produce a 75K-word draft that I can work on later than a 100K-word draft that's a garbled fucking mess. I look at the wordcount as a way to gauge my progress, but I realize that for a lot of people NaNo is an OCD joyride that's all about nothing but wordcount. Take a peek in the Overachievers thread and count how many times they mention plot or characters. You're not going to need too many rows on the abacus for this exercise, believe me. My wife says that's not writing, that's typing. Kids can hammer out verbiage and wrap it up before they get bored with it and it ends up seeming like work. Keep writing! Keep ranting! -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:59:50 +0100

God, I hate fanfiction. I hate it so much. It is my belief that every time someone writes a new fan fiction story a puppy falls off of a busy overpass somewhere.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:33:08 +0100

This is where I come in and (hopefully not repeating myself) say, "It's kinda changed here." But I don't think the NaNo conceit has changed. In fact, I think it has improved. However, there is a larger and larger crowd in here every year, and along with the people who are using it as a challenging exercise to write something different or in a new way, and the people most like me, a) using it as a sort of yearly "can I write a real book" workshop or b) I always wanted to see if I had the Great American Novel in me, you have this third group of people, a sort of flash mob, having allowed themselves to be shaped by current culture and social media, turning their end of it into a combination of Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies (but with zombies!) and semi-annual TV talent shows with a celebrity panel and an audience who can vote them off the show if they aren't the brightest penny in the pile, to wreck a bad set of metaphors...yet everyone is a winner just for showing up! I'm gonna say I hope it's like anything else; the loudest voices belong to a minority, while the most of everyone else is quietly typing away in their own corners, maybe making a few new friends or learning a few new dialogue tricks along the way. It's just that as the whole crowd grows, so does the subset of buzzing [redacted]s.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:37:58 +0100

If they gave out a Pulitzer Prize for typing, this guy here would have it on his shelf in the basement. Yee. Hah. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:27:21 +0100

My I just say that I love this thread? It definitely needs to be there again next year and I would also like to hang out here after NaNo is over.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:56:04 +0100

I asked her why. I mean, I'm not trying to start trouble with her, just interested in what she'll say. So far, someone else answered, "because it's there." Well, if that were a good answer for anything, I would have so much more sex than I do.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:09:15 +0100

I would be willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of the overachievers are writing scifi.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:25:10 +0100

Er. Million word Hypothesis. You know... "You have to write a million words, before you really get any good." I've seen it attributed to everyone and their grandmas.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JennV — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:47:40 +0100

I love this thread. I love it like I love Reese's Peanut Butter cups after a good long screw that resulted in multiple orgasms. I don't even care about my genre forum because it's stupid, and I don't care if all the cynics think what I write is crap. I write what I like to write. Because I must, and it makes me happy. I am sick of stupid questions that are just procrastination and the whimper of a sad little person who is in desperate need of validation from strangers because they don't have enough self-esteem to own up to the fact that they are in fact, not all that different or special from the people around them. (Whew. Sorry for the massive sentence.) Writing is a solitary pursuit and that is my favorite thing about it. I like to be alone with my characters and my laptop and it makes me really f*cking mad when people interrupt me. Off to find the liquor cabinet.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:37:34 +0100

Enjoy, cynics. You're welcome. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:05:37 +0100

You guys are awesome. I read this thread just to waste enough time to help me shift character perspectives in my head. I am a professional cynic. It literally is my job to be a paranoid nutzo looking for everything that could possibly go wrong. So I'm natured and nurtured to my cynicism. Write In Dares baffle the shit outta me. Doesn't anyone sit down and organize? Whether you're writing a murder mystery, a fantasy, or a memoir, shouldn't you at least have a plan? And if you do, where the fuck is there room for fuckin' NINJAS? Don't get me wrong, I love ninjas. But where are you finding room for them in your plot if you're taking your writing at all seriously? Oh wait, nevermind. I answered my own question. For the record, I host write-ins, but they involve alcohol and good food. They don't involve dares and stickers and fan fiction (which is illegal under at least two bodies of law). I am outgoing and sociable at such things, but I am not fuckin' chipper and happy and think my shit is the best thing ever. I'm pretty sure it'll take four drafts to make it readable by anyone other than the close friends I've subjected to it (who I'm sure hate me now). I need a shot now. Anyone else?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:11:38 +0100

Good job guys, you got me ranting. Here's something I hate about Nano - These bloody forums. Not you people, not even the topics (except the sparkly vampire crap), no, I hate the bloody mechanics of the forums. You're HQ'd in San Francisco and you're telling me you can't hire a bloody programmer to get a proper forum that bloody functions? I work in the tech industry. There's more unemployed programmers than you can shake a stick at right now, plenty of whom would be happy to take some of that donated cash to build a proper forum. I feel like this forum is about five years out of date in terms of tech capabilities. /RANT

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:38:03 +0100

Some effin' SCHMUCK in the Fantasy forums just posted about his university offering a "Fantasy Languages" class. WTF are our universities doing if they're offering that crap? No wonder no one wants to hire our grads anymore. *DESPAIR*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:54:45 +0100

Okay, okay, I've got one. I am not one of those people who's entire identify is wrapped up in "being a writer." Some people are preoccupied "being a writer," and the writer club, with it's writer quirks, and it's coffee and it's PLOT BUNNIES, and oh! the drama! of whole worlds in your head! to such an extant that they never go out and do anything. I am actually a big snob about "life experience" being linked to the quality of your work. So, basically, if you're 20? And, you've never had a significant other? And your entire existence is school and fan-wanking out homosexual erotica about organs you've never encountered in real life? I am going nod and smile and tune you out. If you're 35? And, everyone knows you by your *characters* name? And the only other "people" you mention interacting with are your "furbabies?" And you talk about your *characters* like they're invisible homonculi that will probably tell you to kill you neighbors one day? No. NO. *NO.* No. If that's "being a writer?" No.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:41:14 +0100

I have tried to keep an open mind about different forms of entertainment. I try not to judge people by the things they watch...at least not too much. And I do believe that there is a small percentage of intelligent people out there that enjoy this particular genre of entertainment. But I feel the need to confess.... If I see an Anime character in someone's avatar, I automatically skip that post and read the next one. There, I said it. If I do read end up reading it for the sake of understanding the continuity of the thread, I will give that post 0% credibility based on their icon image alone. That might make a bad person. But now that I've admitted it....I feel a heckuva lot better.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:01:43 +0100

Can someone tell me... what exactly IS a plot bunny? I've been here since 2006 and I still don't really get what a plot bunny is.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:50:43 +0100

Quick, somebody invent "Chekov's Bunny" and see how fast it spreads until people start using it like a Thing they take seriously.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:25:56 +0100

I thought plot bunnies were like, maybe, dust bunnies? Fluffy, insubstantial plot notions? I guess the reproductive talents thing does make more sense.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:49:55 +0100

Speaking of which...any of you crazy folks ever use your writing powers for evil? Not "Taking over the free world" evil, but "Watch me manipulate these idiots" evil? Shem, you're not allowed to comment on this one. Your writing bends spoons and sells snake oil. My you still owe my grandmother 50 bucks for that whole "investment idea" you had of equipping cats with sonar helmets so that they could find mice easier.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:34:36 +0100

This forum's "Singles" thread has become a leper colony. I have two wishes left. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:14:51 +0100

can i just complain, apropos of nothing, about marshmallows?? why do they not make them without gelatin so us cocoa-lovin' vegheads can have them in our cocoa in november?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:57:47 +0100

And so it begins...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:59:13 +0100

Oh, thank god for this forum. After the day I've had, I needed to read snarky comments about plot bunnies and vegan marshmellows to put my life back into perspective. And FYI: if you are dog sititng a friend's Belgian Malinois and it get a case of explosive diarrhea and vomitting, that's my new definition of a BAD day.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:00:40 +0100

I've been reading and chuckling along with most of this... and worrying. Is anyone else scared that this venting is going to be seen as trolling and therefore against the TOS? *meeps*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:46:54 +0100

Nah. I mean, we can't really troll ourselves. We're mostly just complaining to other people who are interested in hearing and sympathizing with those complaints. If we were going to other parts of the forum and trying to raise ire, I can see how it could be misconstrued. If anything, tell them it was my idea and that I forced everyone to post in this thread or I was going to steal their first born child.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MermaidSirena — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:09:47 +0100

Hey there, I watch, I read. So far nothing to really report about. There is enough in here for me to keep an eye on you all but so far it's rather tame. They only thing I would caution you on is questioning someone's word count. This is an honor system thing - if the person wants to lie leave them alone. They are not worth the time. Also- it is against the rules to question someone else. Actually, this thread is the perfect place to complain if you are frustrated with anything here without fear of reporting. So - enjoy being pissed off cynics here! Your moderator, Mermaid Sirena ps- sorry about the lack of edit buttons. In the switch to the new server system many things were temporarily eliminated. They truly want to bring it back up but need to handle the massive amount of people on here first. I can edit if you nanomail me where you need the change.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:59:25 +0100

I don't really care to question any of that but I'm still curious about the motivations of people. Just something to muse over, mostly.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mermaidsong — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:33:31 +0100

I could actually see how someone younger than me with no job and no kids could have an insanely high word count in a manner of days. If I had time to do nothing but write and a story was pouring from my head I think I would hole up and just type non stop too. However, that is not my life so I'm taking it in slow manageable chunks. We'll see how much is readable in the end either way. I haven't done any of the word sprints/wars or even read about plot bunnies. I think if people need that to get going fine, but for me time is precious as I'm sure is the case for most of us over the age of 25.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:01:12 +0100

Thanksgiving haters!! Where my people at? If Thanksgiving had genitalia, I'd punch it right in the balls right now (or the ovaries, depending on gender). Don't tell ME what day to be thankful for family, friends,and shiny material goods which bring me much enjoyment. I'm a f***ing ADULT, I'm perfectly capable of organizing my time and delegating moments in which I can reflect upon my thankfulness. I don't NEED some presumptuous holiday stomping around trying to tell me when to be thankful. Especially when I'm starting to require one gallon of coffee per three-hundred words written. I don't WANNA cook. I wanna WRITE! *throws juvenile tantrum* *cruelly insults and unleashes furious vitriol upon frozen turkey*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:27:10 +0100

Nearly every person in my rather large family is touched by a bit of the ol' bipolar disorder, depression, OCD, social anxiety disorder, panic disorder, etc. etc. disorders so while it makes for a lousy Thanksgiving if you're actively trying to get along with people, it makes for wonderful entertainment if you can manage to withdraw from the social interactions, observe the insanity from a distance and use the whole crazy lot of them as character studies for eccentric characters. I intend to find a comfy corner to bunker up with my laptop and let the drama play out before my eyes this Thanksgiving.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:27:22 +0100

I think the holiday season is stressful for a whole lot of people, because they try to pretend to be the perfect family. Fact is, the perfect family doesn't exist. Fact is also, that getting along with all family members is usually not possible. Add to that the stress of preparing a big ass dinner, fatigue from traveling and cramped quarters and you have a recipe for disaster. Now most people go through this a good dose of alcohol and a sour complexion, but should it get really bad, there are a few places you can turn to. I'll leave you with these hotlines: @800273TALK 1-800-273-TALK (8255), @RAINN01 1-800-656-HOPE(4673), @TrevorProject 866.488.7386 I personally have the good fortune that I live a continent away from all those pesky people who would ruin this day for me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 21:13:00 +0100

In my family we usually do a bring your own dish and drinks. So everybody contributes to the Thanksgiving dinner. It's a small affair, just me and my brothers with their spouses going to my dad's. We don't do turkey, we're having steak. Then sometime this week my family and I will go to my in-laws. It's on the small side, also. Then saturday, off to have a family reunion. Thankfully everything is close to the house so I don't have that long of a commute. Trying to get ahead by a few days on my story, that way all this visiting won't cut down on my progress.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:21:24 +0100

In the grand tradition of holiday hate, I'm throwing my hat in the growing pile. EFF the holidays. Multiple divorces have fractured my family left, right, and center, leaving me alone every single year. I can't remember the last Christmas gift I got (not that it's about the gifts, but it's really, really irritating to have everyone else cooing over their shiny new swag and shit) and I am too poor again to buy gifts (EFF YOU SALLIE MAE) so the whole material aspect of Christmas is just crap. In terms of the family aspects of the holidays, well, too broke to fly to visit my mom's family, full of people I barely know who want to pump me for free legal information about the lemon they just purchased or their cousin's uncle's sister's brother twice removed's most recent incarceration for some misdemeanor or petty felony. And my mom lives with a deadbeat drunk who makes me want to grind my teeth and slap restraining orders on, but mom won't let me prep the divorce papers for her for whatever effed up reason...grr. And my dad's side of the family? Well, the siblings are off with their mom who is portraying the sugary sweet perfect family so hard it's as false as the shiny patent on her teeth. My dad? He can't be bothered. He loved his family so much the instant the last of his kids was in college, he jetted off overseas to a lucrative job that flies him everywhere in the world except to where his kids live. My two choices for Thanksgiving this year are a frozen pizza or my cat in my crockpot - she's just the right size. It really is a tossup. The only way my holiday could get any worse is if the Packers lose on Thursday - and I have to get up at nine bloody thirty to watch the game. Who decided that football was a morning thing? /West Coast Hate. /rant

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 05:06:52 +0100

New Rant: Congress. President. Supercommittee. FAIL. Solution: Mnemonicer for 2012. Campaign Slogan: Do your jobs or GTFO. SO so so so angry about Congress right now.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:35:44 +0100

Fifty bucks says this was actually one of those super duper mochaccino things. Vitamin water my black ass. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:18:31 +0100

I just had my best friend wreck a ganglion (bible) cyst on the back of my hand with a pool parts book. It was the single most bro-tastic moment in history. Also, GANGLION CYST WTF MAN?! Y U NO BOTHER SOMEONE ELSE?!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0100

OMG! Mom wants to read my NaNo! Don't worry, kid. As soon as you explain to Mom what pedophile yiff is, she'll lose interest in your writing. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 00:18:43 +0100

It's possible some of these are even more cynical than you guys. ;) http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/site-and-message-board-feedback-and-suggestions/threads/38167

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:51:12 +0100

None of it even mentioned the main difference between now and when I signed up in 2005; the sheer number of young people and their young people energy. Here in this space, we're not so crazy about a lot of it. But even if you're a go teen write champion, you'd have to concede that skewing toward the facebook generation changes the play on the field. All I mean is that maybe those insanely long journal entries in that thread have some sort of point but aren't focusing on how the crowd has a different, um, cheer. I should stop now. Okay.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrWriteon — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:04:36 +0100

Pain? Pleasure? Opinions? Just be thankful you still have a choice. Enjoy these days while you still can. Anyone familiar with the works of George Orwell? Sure you are.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrWriteon — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:26:53 +0100

I'm not a writer. I mean I write, but I have never been published. I am a" tryer" at best. Because I try of course. My novel is my first and it is horrible! I love it though, much like a mother must love her ugly kid, the one that never learns how to tie its' shoes and always shits its' pants. It's never going to be what you want it to be but it's yours and you love it just the same. Anyway, I have always been under the impression that writing is a solitary endeavor. So, whats with the write in? I'm not knocking it. Just sounds like a counter productive measure to me. Oh well, whatever works, right? (I thought the artist had to suffer. silly me)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:24:45 +0100

There are definitely more teens that when I started Nano in 2006. I feel two ways about this. 1. Yay for kids expressing themselves and writing books! Yay for kids finding a passion, being creative and staying away from self destructive habits! Yay for kids loving stories, books and words! Yay for a generation of readers and writers! Go kids! You rock! Keep it up! 2. Get off my lawn!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:57:31 +0100

I need to make a little rant. I'm not looking for sympathy, just giving you all a chance to laugh at my naivety. I made the mistake of letting my father read a chapter today. In my defense, I was doing a bit of fact checking because the chapter was about the Rhineland and I've never been there (he has). But he read it and gave me a rather condescending list of non-Rhineland related criticism. -He compared me to James Herriot (compared to whom I am woefully inadequate, apparently). -He told me he didn't "feel" the characters' personalities enough (hmm...perhaps because you're reading Chapter 9 out of context?) -He told me that the use of a swear word (ass) was unnecessary. -He told me that I wasn't descriptive enough. This one is my favorite because I felt like I was actually overly descriptive in this chapter. This is an actual quote from that chapter: "As we walked along the bank of the Rhine, the wind blowing over the water stung our faces with cold. The sky was grey and clouds hung low as though they were so heavy with snow that they might dump it right upon our heads at any moment. The three of us walked closely together to shelter ourselves from the wind. In the distance, we could see the Drachenfel mountains surrounding the city, with the remnants of ancient Roman structures scattered across their green slopes. The foot of the mountains were blanketed in thick forests that stretched right up to the edges of the river as it vanished into the distant fog." That's about as purple as I get. Ever. I can't possibly see how that is not descriptive enough for him. Ugh. Anyways, I was asking for it. I shouldn't have let him read it. Only more enticement to publish under a pen name...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:53:13 +0100

How perfectly icky. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:57:32 +0100

Honestly, I leave this place for a few days and I return to talk of pornography, attending write-ins, putting bunnies into stew's, and worst of all...mention of Harry Potter! Ok class...I'll leave the room, and when I return, I expect to see all this mess cleared up. Harry Potter indeed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:52:36 +0100

Ugh. The last-ditch, final week nag for donations has started. Dear Nano Ppl, do not nag me to donate. I donated freely of my own volition and that's how donations should be. If you cannot raise the funds purely through voluntary donations at this single event (even though you host multiple), you need to address your fundraising mechanisms and start looking for donations, grants, and other sources of funds. You also need to look at your bottom line and determine if you are properly budgeted (and no, I did not look at the link online where you provide that stuff. It's Turkey Day and I'm getting my drink on). Assuming your 1.1M budget is accurate and you've raised half through voluntary donation, then it's time to start to go chat up universities and the government and private entities/indivs for the rest. 550K is really not that much to raise. Just please do not try to guilt me into giving more or people into giving who haven't. /wearyrant

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 03:49:03 +0100

I will make a donation pretty soon. Usually I buy a thing, this year I'll kick in a few bucks. I've had fun this year. I just didn't want a halo. I promise, I don't care if you love having one. It just makes me sort of uncomfortable.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Burnt Sushi — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 06:14:15 +0100

I hear you about the donation guilt. I know I have enjoyed NaNo for years, without donating. Because I am a grown up, I understand things like overhead and shipping costs and server maintenance. But I also understand poverty, and living on $185 dollars a week with a family of three, and later doing only a little better with a family of four. So I am perfectly willing to give to the cause, but just not able. I need food on the table more than I need a halo.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:56:44 +0100

Donation guilt is one of my pet peeves, if I had my way I'd punch Sarah McLachlan right in the face for those animal adoption PSAs, personally. Then she could sing a song about getting punched in the face on a PSA for an organization dedicated to the prevention of singers getting punched in the face, if she wants. If they could use market research to specifically target the selfish mofos who wouldn't think of donating to ANYTHING, maybe that would be another story but heaping collective guilt and shame on everyone at large is bullshit to me (ESPECIALLY seeing as they target poorer demographics who already give the most as it is). I'm just over donation guilt. I donate what I can, where I can, to the causes I believe in but I'm just not going to feel guilty that I currently cannot donate to everyone, everywhere. These days it's almost like the marketing teams for these organizations compete to come up with the ad that will make everyone cry the most. Like "The shittier we make them feel, the more likely they won't be able to live with themselves if they don't choose to give their donations dollars to OUR charity" and I resent the shit out of that. I don't think NaNo is quite that bad at all, I'm fine with someone just laying out the needs and stating the facts. I'm an adult and I can understand figures and pie charts, I can understand being worried the program won't be able to continue without help. I don't need to be prodded in order to GET where they're coming from, you know? I just hate when organizations so blatantly doubt the emotional intelligence of people at large by creating these purposely manipulative messages and commercials. I'm down with the leader of an organization saying "Hey, I care about this, here are some facts about it, I'd love it if you could help", but I'm not down with marketing teams and writers putting together calculated sets of images and appeals designed specifically to induce guilt and put the pressure on by pummeling emotions. I think it does more harm for a cause than good, and I think a lot of them should be ashamed of themselves because a lot of the time I think these marketing approaches to charities are a detriment to those causes more than they benefit them. (again, I don't think NaNo is quite so bad, I'm speaking in general). The more money and time I have, the more I donate it. Simple as that. So Sarah McLachlan and her like-minded charity cronies can eff off.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:51:20 +0100

There are five more days of writing left, and I've written more than I've written for nano before. However, I think I've written about as much as I can possibly write without having to go back and start the rewrite, do more research and extend the full draft to a first draft. I still want to write, but I think I've ran the course with the novel. Perhaps I'll think of a few more angles or even write a short story if the mood strikes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:33:07 +0100

I am annoyed with all the children that used the last three days to "catch up." I used the last few days for "cooking" and "social obligations."

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:43:17 +0100

Alright, time for Jess and MattNot to power on through. Only three full days left. We Pissed Off Cynics have to represent and beat the 19.2% average success rate over the glass lickers. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:00:52 +0100

After seeing all of the desperate cries for more donations I became curious: why did OLL budget on raising $1.1mil this year? The site archive doesn't list 2008-2010, but the 2007 total was in the mid 200-thousands and the one reference I could find pegged 2010 at around $650k. What possessed them to think that they had a budget roughly 1/3rd higher than last year's to play with in anticipated donations for the month, given how horrible the economy has been for the last few years? Looking at the 'where do your donations go' page I see a ton of overhead that's presumably wrapped up in all of the community organization and education costs. I love the idea of nanowrimo and I think they're doing some commendable things with writing programs for young people, but if they've reached the point where the operating budget is over-running the donation income by 40% or so then maybe it's time to take a step back. For most of the people participating, nanowrimo is a personal experience and a message board. It doesn't take a million dollars to run a message board. If the OLL wants to be a community outreach and education organization then they're going to have to start working harder at reaching people beyond the nanowrimo (and scripfrenzy and so forth) communities.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:11:22 +0100

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8pFJGYTygg

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:12:14 +0100

So...I might have finished today. I haven't written a thing yet. Here are the three challenges to have been met. First, my shoulders are very stuff from bowling yesterday; I hadn't gone in a month and somehow, well, I'm old, I guess. Did great, though! So, but whatever. Next, I got the coolest old couch on Saturday at Goodwill. Brought my buffet/bar thing into dining room-which-is-actually-computer/school room to make proper space for it. Nearly 15 yo pretty much turned this area into a disaster when he "helped" by taking the now-extra shelf up to his room. He had all this schoolwork today so I had to straighten all that out myself or it would drive me crazy, like what are we here, hoarders? But whatever. The younger son had to be just draaaaaggggggged through his History test a bit ago, still got only 68% on it. History is my Thing but I couldn't talk him through the essay questions well enough to give him enough points to pass. So now he's studying to take it over because he's a week behind. (It's virtual school; through 8th grade, you set the pace. But still.) Still, whatever. I signed up for this gig, didn't I? I'm out of gin (but not everything else, of course!) It's been pouring for two days. None of this keeps me from obtaining word count, if I get going on the thing, that would be very silly. It's just all irritating me, and so are people who think they know stuff when they really don't at all, and so I'm not super focused right now. About to be no longer ahead of the game? Bah. ...and thank you for your support.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:12:52 +0100

Why is there no edit button? If I donate ten dollars, can it go toward that?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:38:25 +0100

omg. I just googled tofu poisoning because I wanted to know whether someone with legume allergies could die from eating too much soy. One of the first articles on the list was a lengthy screed claiming that feeding boys or men tofu causes them to become homosexual. I mean... WTF??!! o.m.g. There is seriously scary stuff out there on teh interwebz.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:02:29 +0100

Well, the theory is that soybeans (and also sweet potatoes) stimulate estrogen production. So. I mean, sure, it's nutty. But peri- and post-menopausal women are sometimes encouraged to eat them for natural estrogen supplements. So it's just another fact gone wild, like so many others.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:16:20 +0100

Alright I'm done. There's nothing more that I can write without a extensive research and a rewrite. I thought I'd get to 75k, but there's just not that much I can say without rewriting the story from beginning to end and finding those missing holes as I unfold the story a second time.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:10:01 +0100

Grr ARggh. I hit 50k and ran to validate, because I knew my program over inflates word count. BY ONE THOUSAND WORDS! Grr. Ok, at least I was warned ahead of time that my program was a booger head and I knew I was going to have to go over the stated word count. I still have a day and a half to hit the right word count. I just thought I'd let my pissed-off out over here.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:38:17 +0100

I honestly use a version of Microsoft Works that came with my first computer, a VAIO that ran Windows 95 back in 1997. Whenever I've gotten a new computer, I install it immediately. I get made fun of endlessly, and I've been pushed to try other programs but yeah, I stick with what works for me. It does everything I need it to, so I just feel no need to use anything else when I'm writing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:39:56 +0100

Storyist is running about 50 words ahead of NaNoWriMo and hasn't changed much as the word count increased. But it isn't doubling hyphenated words, and I put in the chapter numbers as regular text so I'm not sure what it's counting.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 23:03:15 +0100

New Rant: People who don't understand sarcasm and decide that when you're joking around with a friend on Facebook, they need to come in and tell you to stop being bitchy as if they're your mother when they clearly don't understand you or the context of your relationship with the mutual friend. Dumbasses. /rant

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:00:20 +0100

Man, I really didn't want the halo. I thought if I said anonymous they'd leave it off. And yellow is totally not my color.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:04:45 +0100

I don't know whether anybody cares, but the OCD queen of Moscow, Idaho clocked a million words on the dot. And incidentally, I'm Lady Nelson. -Shem

Yarny

WhatsForDinner — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:21:59 +0100

Commenting on the search for a good writing program. I used Yarny, the free cloud-based writing program. It is easy-to-use and incredibly intuitive, and it lets you keep lots of notes to the side. When you write, you do so in little "snippets', so it is easy to reorder them. Saving is automatic, at least every minute. When you are actually typing away, the notes and things gradually fade away, so you're literally looking at this nice, clean field with nothing but your writing in front of you. I found it about two days before NaNo, in the cool stuff from our sponsors thread, and made some notes online which were so helpful that I just ran with it. (Not very cynical. Sorry. But I would be happy to throw in a gratuitous "I hate Microsoft Word" if that gets me back into line.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:47:18 +0100

I'm pretty impressed by this bunch of pissed off people. We lost a few of the curmudgeons who couldn't be bothered to get off their porch and write early on in this thread, but by and large most of you tight fisted angry writers banged out some 50k words all while giving some shiny happy people the finger. Please have a beer or some other frosty beverage for me and you can't say I never did anything for you. Also, you owe me some pushups. After the deadline, I'll probably hang around the forums a bit, but I'm not touching my novel for the next month. I need a break before I start doing surgery on it. Damn writing cramps my creative muscle something fierce. Feel free to nanomail me if you want to keep in touch. I'm sure my first real effort of getting rough draft to first draft won't be shiny or happy. Otherwise, I'll see you pissed off people next year! By then I'll be doing nano where I normally do it: at home. I'm off to go running. I have a 15k run across the desert with the French Foreign Legion next week!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:17:12 +0100

Dear Cynics, Zenken is right. We need a post-nano group to continue griping about the world. I'm going to miss you guys as I keep hacking away on this thing. Who's going to help me procrastinate in the future?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:50:48 +0100

Yes yes. And can we please make some sort of rule that if some Polly-Anna tries to come in here and explain to us why we should give those kids who won't stay off our lawn a break and how if we just looked at it from their side we would stop shaking our fists, then they will get their fingers shocked. Or we could just put up a sign that says "Don't Poke the Tigers". Either the finger shocking thing or the sign. Either way.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 11:50:11 +0100

Yeah, we need to keep the cynicism flowing during the cool-down and the revision process. I couldn't have done it* without the laughs you folks provoked throughout the month with your unremitting spite and sarcasm in this here thread. Maybe it's just the caffeine poisoning talking, but I love each and every one of you from the depths of my hideous black heart. -Shem * I mean NaNo, not the dishes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:53:22 +0100

It's official. Overachieving is a drug! No kidding. It makes you babble incoherently, it gives you an inflated sense of self-worth, it makes you incapable of doing anything worthwhile or being receptive to valid criticism, and it's something we shouldn't encourage people to do in lieu of genuine creative effort. It's no substitute for inspiration. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:25:12 +0100

I made it only to 50k before resting my brain. But you all did help me get there. I went complete off the plan, and that is why it was hard for me to get a lot done, though I realized I could have written 70k or so, through watching other people and how they achieved it. The difference this year, for the first time in seven, is that I'll probably actually keep going, try to make something of it all, I mean, in terms of completion and readability. See, for me, NaNoWriMo is still a 50k challenge after all this time, even though I am a rather fast typist, because I am not disciplined in my head. I mean, the house is clean, the kids are fed, all the various ordinary daily stuff I've gotten used to over the years. Those things are not a big deal; they're what I do. But doing a thing for myself, that is my thing, with my crazy brain running all over the tracks, well, that's a whole different set of, er, pig knuckles. Sure, I know I'll get 50,000 words written because I set the goal to do so. But at the end I'm never completely satisfied with my effort. Talking with thinkers has been good for me, though, and I wanna keep my head in this space.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:14:06 +0100

Brain resting is an important part of writing. My philosophy is that writers write--and writing requires brain resting, editing, more editing and...yes...publishing. Considering my lofty goal, 50,000 first-draft words are only the beginning, but, without rah-rahing too much, I'm grateful to nano for giving me the excuse to kick myself in the ass and get that beginning. Congratulations to us all for kicking ourselves in the ass...no matter how many first-draft words we came up with...even a million (just kidding). Okay...and now back to work.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Raquelin — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:35:06 +0100

Am I allowed to post here and say that nothing makes me antisocial like NaNo, or will y'all eat me alive? 'Cause it's true. By week four I just want to be left alone to my little corner, maybe a few hard-at-work people, and get the freaking novel out. But if it would make you feel better, by all means, eat me alive. Congrats on all the purple bars. That's my favorite color.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:04:13 +0100

Oh man, I have to say I am disturbed at the 'do some shit about the post above you' threads. Why do we need to critique work in progress or make up songs for people's novels? It's like watching an airplane being assembled and saying 'I think your airplane is too round and blue'.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:19:24 +0100

Hmmm. So, I think some people have mentioned this before, but the longer into this I go, the more I think it's a good idea. Maybe we PoC's should start our own forum that we can communicate with off the NaNo site. That way we could keep in touch throughout the year, and we wouldn't have to worry about the youngsters getting offended by our eye rolling commitment to quality. What do you guys think? Would anyone be interested in such a thing?

Moderator Note

Dragonchilde — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:57:15 +0100

I'm sorry folks, but I'm afraid I have to close this thread. You're welcome to restart it, but the current conversation has become abusive and disrespectful to other NaNoWriMo participants, and there are too many posts to remove without destroying the integrity of the thread itself. The original topic of the thread is okay, so you are welcome to restart it, but let me make something clear: We will not tolerate namecalling, taunting, or abusiveness towards any of our participants. As noted in our Codes of Conduct, we do not allow people to call others cheaters. We ask that if you feel someone is cheating, you ignore them. If you post negative comments about other participants, including taunting and implications that they have no talent or are not writing works of quality, then your posts may very well be removed. As I noted, you are welcome to restart the thread, should you choose to do so, as gathering as "Pissed off Cynics" is fine. Abusing other members is not, and that is why this thread is being closed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:58:09 +0100

I'm totally with you before I had my coffee. Not a morning person does not even begin to describe me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

moonpook — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:13:03 +0100

Oh, god, yes! My ML starts all of her posts with a paragraph about how "awesome" our region is. I quickly stopped reading her posts, thereby preventing at least one homicide. The teenager nanoers, well, they have the excuse. Ignorance being bliss (or as I recently learned, the Dunning-Kruger effect), they kinda have to be like that til reality knocks some of the rough edges off. Bless their fluffy little hearts. Doesn't mean I have to hold hands n' sing with 'em, though. My usual take (this is year 11 for me) is "shut up and write." I don't do the forums much, which cuts down on the fluffy-happy-bunny overload. The only draw back of that is that nano seems to exacerbate the lonely state in which writers usually exist. I get frustrated that there aren't some reasonable people participating. . .

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Emdog — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 03:17:36 +0100

Ahhhh! Must...leave...this thread....Its sucking...out my joy. Stumbled ...here by................accident. Best of..........lu------ck to ___________________________________________________________________________________________. (I've flat-lined. ;))

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

jswwrites — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 12:56:00 +0100

My hubby calls himself a curmudgeon too! As a non-fiction writer, he's been very supportive of my first NaNo until 3 min ago... I said, "I'm actually aiming for 105,000 words. I have 28 days I can write, and that's 3750 a day." He was making a very pained expression, so I said, "WHAT?" And he said, "I don't know... that's a lot..." yeesh. As he went to refill his coffee cup (maybe he hadn't had enough caffeine??) I yelled at his back, "HEY! You're supposed to be supportive here!" Of course, now I just have to prove him wrong. That was one of those "oh, he shouldn't have done that" moments, where the bad guy makes the good guy REALLY mad, so he cranks it up a notch and starts to really kick ass... *was this his master plan??*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

VirtuallyCJ — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 13:41:07 +0100

Funny, I've always thought that the obsessively negative were cutters and on heroin. Definitely creepy. Guess it works both ways. = )

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

dancer_kirsten — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:33:41 +0100

I agree completely! I love writing, I enjoy the pressure of writing a good amount of stuff in a month, but I just don't get all the huzzah around it. I don't have any merchandise, I'm not going to buy a Winner shirt, and I only printed the winner certificate because I needed a cover for the binder that my first draft is in for editting. And all this happy-happy-we-are-soooo-awesome-non-writers-don't-understand-us attitude ------ like wut? No, I'm just going to write my novels, NaNo or not. I do donate because I agree with the concept of NaNo, but that's it. Writing is not something to be ashamed of, but you should do it it in private and clean up after yourself. ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Delyn — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:45:15 +0100

Lol. I know I am a.... Damn old timers disease, whatever it was is what I am.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

adklib — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:37:00 +0100

[quote=17Tracker] "I'm really not a nice person, I just happen to like you." [/quote] I say the same thing, all the time, and after 8.5 years at the same place of employment, people are finally beginning to believe it. Everyone already knows I'm the "mean librarian" and will send particularly troublesome students my way. My husband also describes himself as a curmudgeon although with him it's more talk than anything else. I guess we'd call ourselves hopeful misanthropes, if that makes any sense. I always think of a cynic as an optimist cursed with the ability to see just how screwed up everything really is.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

VirtuallyCJ — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:19:48 +0100

I'm about ready to dump my regional group. The ML focuses on events in HER area and ignores all others. She is also annoying with the perky. I don't mind happy, but the perky makes me want to get slap happy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 02:49:31 +0100

YES! I love my regional group, and I admit to being perkier than my MLs, but I hate, hate, HAAAAAAAAATE all the underaged fantasy genre emo kids who don't understand why nobody wants to take their special little snowflake manuscripts seriously. (I know this because I screamed at one in our chat room last night. "Oh, I want to self-publish my novel, but the world doesn't want to read my super special hentai steampunk Mary Sue story and nobody in my life wants to support me EXCEPT FOR YOU GUYS AND I THOUGHT YOU CARED boo hoo hoo." Hello, you're 16, you're allowed to make mistakes. GROW A PAIR. Or watch Fight Club. And don't tell me you can't find a copy of Fight Club. You do know how to torrent, don't you?) Next year I'm going to lobby my MLs to push the Young Writer's Program super hard so that we can start swearing in our chatrooms again. The people that I hate more than the emo kids are the pompous ones who think that Every Novel Must Be Important but are so busy talking about theirs and themselves that they don't even bother talking to me when they find out that I'm writing a thriller. So I'm writing a mainstream fiction book. So I'm writing for the market. So. Fucking. What. I'm still a PhD student who needs the money, and you're still an elitist jackass whom nobody remembers fondly. Sue me. Thanks for listening.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 17:29:37 +0100

[quote=quietasdormidas] I can sympathize with people's pains, but not with their pleasure. There is something curiously boring about somebody else's happiness. - Aldous Huxley[/quote] Duly noted.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:53:29 +0100

Agreed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MBee — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:24:00 +0100

Everyone knows you don't stick vampires in there if it's not working, you blow shit up.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 23:37:41 +0100

My region has a version of that which is something about lesbians and werewolves. Um... yeah. I haven't been to the meetups for a couple of years, but the last times I did were kind of noisy and loud and it was hard to talk to a variety of people and there was quite a bit of "vying for attention" stupidity. I genuinely miss a few people whom I only ever seem to catch up with at NaNo, but the hyperactive wank and frat party behaviour rubs all my social anxiety issues the wrong way. Maybe I'm just getting too old for the social aspect.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Righter04 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 03:43:21 +0100

love cynics hate vampires...make that bubblegum vampires who live in frathouses. trying to creatively mix Twilight series with Cormac McCarthy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:21:17 +0100

Sorry, I meant Nano is PARTLY for the kids...to encourage them to become writers and what not.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 22:13:09 +0100

[quote]. It is angering me. Why? I have no idea, but I'm seriously pissed off at the wussiness of kids today. They are so afraid of lawyers, they don't even know their own rights as writers of fiction.[/quote] You know what really horrifies me about this? That these kids don't know how to use Google and read up a bit on copyright law. Seriously: it's either stupidity or laziness, and both of those things irritate me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:34:21 +0100

Ahem. As one of those copyright lawyers (and trademarks and other IP-related matters), I am constantly appalled at the misinformation regarding the copyright law, first amendment law, and just the law in general among the general population. It's painful in the extreme to me. I feel like it really IS my job to educate clients, not just tell them what to do. Someone once told me that clients you take the time to educate are the kind of clients who come back for more business later...and make referrals. But I'm wondering what we're teaching in schools if we can't be bothered to teach any basic legal theory or knowledge. What's going on in civics/American history classes these days? What about home room classes where you're supposed to learn life skills like balancing checkbooks? Can't you find any kids with lawyer parents to come in and teach it for you if you don't know what you're talking about? /rant

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 00:25:27 +0100

I'm sorry, but not everyone should be a writer. I'm never going to be a professional basketball player or a NASA shuttle pilot. I'm okay with that. If you write just for prestige or to embody a stereotype then you need to check your shallow personality characteristics. Kids are not excluded from that statement. I think a lot of these kids need creative encouragement from a predominately uncreative society. (Tyler Perry, I'm talking to you.) Of course if that encouragement breeds slush pile fodder then what's the point. Less is more in my opinion. (Tyler Perry, I'm talking to you again.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:54:40 +0100

Just to add to the cynical vibe, why in the hell should we encourage anyone to write? There are probably fewer writers who can make a living off their earnings in the US than there are professional baseball players. Advances for novels tend to be in the whopping four figure range (ooh!!!! That's going to let me quit my day job!) and still have a <1% acceptance rate. Short stories are also brutal. Enjoy those $0.05/word in markets that accept less than one out of every stories we receive! I don't think that writing is a bad thing. I enjoy it as a hobby, and it's cheaper than costuming and less fattening than cooking. But...I'd hardly encourage anyone to do it as there's no reason to do it, near as I can tell, than that I enjoy doing it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:12:19 +0100

THIS.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:52:25 +0100

Or add zombies.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 22:23:52 +0100

Yeah! And, honestly, I don't think some of these wussbags are kids. growl.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:30:55 +0100

Yeah, I saw in reference desk someone was asking - and I don't think they were trolling - if Americans would have been in France in WWII. *headdesk* Yeah, there's this thing called D-Day....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 23:42:34 +0100

I have a theory about this: they'd like to pretend they and their novel are important enough to attract the attention of lawyers. Or they think it makes them sound like Serious Writers asking such things.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 02:17:55 +0100

You're right. And I shouldn't lend them any more false importance by paying attention to them. Thank you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 02:09:50 +0100

Some people need hand holding and affirmation. Some don't. The good news is that it is pretty easy to avoid if you don't. I like the atmosphere here, and the encouragement I get just from knowing that there are other nujobs out there trying to do the same thing I'm doing. But I don't need everyone to reassure me about copyrights or affirm my character name choice. Pick a name, stick the legally questionable (even though it isn't) in there. You're not publishing. Your're writing. You can work all that crap out later. And seriously? Google is my friend. I can't count the number of things I've googled, and I write fantasy. I couldn't imagine starting a thread about the various positions in a working castle for a lord (chamberlain, grooms, etc) when I can just look it up myself. Here's a bit of Generational politics for ya. Generation X (us) tends to be a little independent by nature. We make a decision for us and go. Generation Y, because they've grown up with social networking and schoolwork that is so team-oriented, likes to make decisions by consensus.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:52:55 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I'm going to go out on a limb and rant for moment myself. It drives me nuts that there are so many people who are debating minutae. "What should my vampire character's name be?" or "I can't figure out what my chekov's gun should be." Just freakin write for Christ's sake. Quit worrying so much and write. You may even *gasp* write something original, instead of writing the same story that every angsty teenage has been writing for the last ten years! Ugh. Cliche frustrates me to no end. [/quote] This is particularly entertaining in the Information Age where a character's name can be changed with a two-key shortcut - Replace All.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

RobertLent — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:57:39 +0100

I agree, some people get it completely backwards. They get so hung up on the tiny details, that they can't even see the bigger picture of their own story, and aren't making progress to writing it. I feel like saying "Fred. Your vampire's name is Fred. Now get on with writing your story, or you will never get it written."

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:58:35 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I'm sorry, but not everyone should be a writer. I'm never going to be a professional basketball player or a NASA shuttle pilot. I'm okay with that. If you write just for prestige or to embody a stereotype then you need to check your shallow personality characteristics. Kids are not excluded from that statement. I think a lot of these kids need creative encouragement from a predominately uncreative society. (Tyler Perry, I'm talking to you.) Of course if that encouragement breeds slush pile fodder then what's the point. Less is more in my opinion. (Tyler Perry, I'm talking to you again.) [/quote] I disagree. Everyone who wants to write should write. Not all English majors or novelists write well. If you have a story to tell, tell it. However, if you're writing out of your element (as most teenagers do, writing almost anything other than high school drama), you need to do some research or have experience beyond Google and Wikipedia. It's a good start to frame for your nano story, but you need to go deeper for real substance. It's something readers like me would appreciate. Also: don't go to the deep end of research (e.g. Thomas Pynchon): you completely confound the story, confuse the reader and bore the audience. Actually, that's rarely a problem I've seen in nano. I think it's why I like the sci fi forum, though.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:47:15 +0100

(Before reading this, understand that I'm no fan of the newly hormonally-charged in the 12 to 20 range.) Everyone...and I do mean EVERYONE...does something especially moody and emo when they are that age. Some write poetry, some write crappy NaNo novels, some jump off of silos into water that isn't very deep...so on and so forth. If it comes down to it, I'd rather my kid be writing crappy Mary Sue Naruto fanfiction than going out and getting pregnant. *shrug* Besides that, what writer *hasn't* gone back to one's early writings and cringed? I say give the kids a break....because we've all been there. And because they're kids. Who cares if they write stupid crap right now? It's practice, at least! And it gets their feelings out in a non-violent, legal way. (Though I agree that if there's a lot of problems in one's NaNo group with this, that the Young Writer's program needs to be advertised more and organized for them better.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 02:28:58 +0100

Good point! Also, I appreciate that you called them Gen Y. They like to be called Millennials. Really? Do you? Fascinating. And We'd like to be called Generation Sexy Pants, but that's not going to happen, despite the sexiness of our pants. So deal with it, Gen Y. I actually appreciate the forums because I like to waste time in them and then, when they start to annoy, that's a reminder to me that I have a novel to write. Speaking of...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:49:03 +0100

"We are the Teens. You will be Assimilated. Resistance is Futile" Lulz.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:40:20 +0100

I'm going to refer to myself as "Generation Sexypants" from here on out.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 23:45:29 +0100

Oh, I like you. Just a quick aside, I went to a regional WI today and ended up throwing on my headphones while an annoyingly upbeat host made me sign-in, write my name on a name tag, and then suggest I go write in a cafe across the co-op we were using. Granted, it was a small space and there were a lot of people, but I drove a half-hour to sit by myself. Fortunately, not a single fuck was given today, so I cranked out 2100 words and packed up my iPad and bounced while they were giving away vibrating pens and silly bands. I wanted to toss the ML's down the stairs. My regional WI's remind me of a high school glee club and it's really starting to piss me off.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:21:22 +0100

I haven't gone to any write-ins this year, but I went to a few last year and they weren't anything like that. It was more like a bunch of writers writing, occasionally sharing a few jokes or comments, with a word sprint or two for competition. I found it convivial and motivating, but not something I'd do all the time. I think I'll hit 'em up if (when?) my word count starts to flag,

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:48:40 +0100

We had nametags at one meetup I went to, and apparently it was hilarious when one participant stuck them all over her chest. LOL BEWBS!!!!2!!!1!!!! Or something. The photos went up on FaceBook with equally intelligent comments. Frat house is a lovely description. I'm sorry you were stuck by yourself and you made some effort to get there: small space is small space, but seriously, that's some shithouse planning right there. Then again, you got writing done, they probably didn't. Then again, you probably could have found a cafe that was closer to you. I don't do the glee club thing, either... it's nice to hear that I'm not alone. (And: YES. This is not THAT crazy/weird/out there/whacky/zany/whatever else makes them sound like fun-loving special snowflake hipsters-- the freebee paper in my (major) city today had TWO letters to the editor from people doing NaNoWriMo. If a commercial rag aimed at the lowest common denominator is publishing stuff about NaNo, then it's not THAT unique and obscure.) Does this some how make us NaNo Rebels?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:08:39 +0100

Fuck yes, this.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:48:19 +0100

[quote=stellameimei96] Hello, you're 16, you're allowed to make mistakes. GROW A PAIR. [/quote] Or wait for said pair to descend. hehe

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:51:41 +0100

I love you. Just so you know that. ;) I spend far too much mental energy wondering which to hate most, the emo-snowflakes or the "I am writing something grand and glorious". Strangely, my regional is filled with...not to many of either of them, which has me floored. But I'm guessing that it is only a matter of time...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:30:26 +0100

Hahaha. FYI WI = Write In ML = Municipal Liason (Read : Power Hungry, over zealous, self important, sunshine up your ass, NaNo Gestapo)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:54:01 +0100

See it's lucky you told me, because google really didn't have the answers. ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:37:35 +0100

This made me laugh so much.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:51:11 +0100

Girl, I do not want to start with the kid who "does not listen to the Beatles" in the Soundtrack thread. Somebody actually had to post the sentence "Yes, those are Beatles songs." And I actually had to start a thread with links to the NaNo FAQ just to shut people up in my regional forum. A thread. For the Frequently Asked Questions About NaNo. In my region's defense, not all of us are native English speakers. But STILL.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 12:56:54 +0100

I love the ones who ask about some detailled and awful psychological trauma, expecting answers and someone else to fill them in on essentially what they should have researched themselves or at least given some empathy to if they're that keen on writing it. Also, I think the phrase "write what you know" is appropriate for both the situation you described and the one I did. *sighs*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 11:52:39 +0100

And may I also add: "I had this idea, but I had ANOTHER idea! What should I write? Is this weird? Help!" There are six different threads on this subject in my regional forum. This nonsense needs to stop, now.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:06:40 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] What gets my goat a little, is all the excessive complaining about writing that is going on. 'This thing kept me away from doing it, then that thing. And it is all so unfair!' I think we all have our off days and I don't mind an occasional vent or rant. Heck, I even like to encourage people who have a hard time and are civil about it. But you have to put things into perspective. The time you spent on making 5 more complain threads could have been spent on your novel, maybe? Also if it is such a drag and you really don't like doing it, you don't have to. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. (I hope.) You can walk away anytime. [/quote] Pretty much that's the sum of it. Complaining is fine. Actually what's better is reading other people's complaints. Guaranteed that yours is already been said, you don't need to add anything, and you feel better after. Turn off the internet, isolate yourself (with music or whatnot) and write for a couple of hours. Put yourself into the story. That's what writing is, in a nutshell.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:01:21 +0100

I'm endlessly puzzled off by people who whine about writing. As you said, you don't need to do it. I get pushing myself through the parts I don't like (as they'll always exist, and I feel pleased when I have a finished story, even if getting there was a bit rocky). But, seriously...this is a hobby.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:14:21 +0100

Oh no no! I love the kids, and I love that they're writing something longer than a Facebook status update, but I need to grouch about them because that's how I am. Like, I love my kid and worship the ground her pink, sparkly shoes walk on, but I've got a long-list of complaints about that little rascal.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 21:10:53 +0100

Sometimes it's not the kids who are acting like this... generally from my experience, the youngest NaNos in the crowd want to fit in and tend to be quite mature, I've found. I think there's a difference between complaining about the behaviour and the ages of people parttaking in the behaviour. I know I could be an annoying insecure little shit when I was 18, but I didn't ever really go through the attentionwhore/hyper-peppy phase. :/

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 13:11:38 +0100

[quote=zenken] Or wait for said pair to descend. hehe [/quote] BWAHAHAAHAAA!!! Oh, puberty.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

1CookieMomster — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:07:54 +0100

I think if you look at the word totals for a lot of the people barking about how much they love WI's you'll see that perhaps they are just desperately seeking social interaction rather than seriously wanting to write...just a thought.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

La Luna Unita — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 06:15:39 +0100

I'm not a curmudgeon, but I like you guys. A lot. I'm just a mom with no time for bull shit.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:29:20 +0100

I think that's the problem with writing to a specific genre, or more so, establishing your genre early on. I just want to write the damned thing and let the people who read it align to their own interpretation. "True art is useless," right? That may sound pretentious, but unless you're confident that you can doctor a story from beginning to end with all the right plot points and all the right messages from the get go, then forget about classification. Lit Fic, Satire, Humor, whatever. I think a good book should have elements of all genres and allow the reader to divulge the meaning as it suits them. Not to be too egotistical, but I'm a fucking artist, man, I just paint the pictures. Other people can try interpret why I painted them the colors that I did. I agree with the Gen X vs. Gen Y comments though. I have yet to meet a Gen Yer that can fully elicit some sort of decision in regards to their creative pursuits. Even though my parents were hippies, they still taught me that I didn't need some sort of hive mind to make decisions. *grumblegrumblecusscussgrumblegrumble* /end old man rant.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MBee — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 18:08:03 +0100

heheh I just beta read something for someone that involved gay vampires. It wasn't awful. At least they didn't sparkle! I don't really have a problem with vampires or werewolves or faeries, etc. (I do read and write YA after all) but I want to see people trying to be original with the topics. Please don't try to re-write twilight you won't have much success (unless of course you're Amanda Hocking...). I get it, it's hard to be really original, but at least try and if you're taking from other ideas, please shine them up and put your own twist on it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 17:05:02 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] Not to be too egotistical, but I'm a fucking artist, man, I just paint the pictures. Other people can try interpret why I painted them the colors that I did. [/quote] I heartily agree. If you're writing a really specific thing (see below) then you will have it marketed to the audience looking for that thing. Otherwise, whatever. A Very Precious Series Indeed

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:24:32 +0100

Now get off my lawn! Damn kids these days.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:04:45 +0100

Hahahahahahaha. Oh Jesus. Wow. Just rule 34'd the crap out of that. Amazing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:25:36 +0100

Do you really think it's a plea for validation? Maybe it's my own brand of cynicism, but I just assume they want great big AREN'T YOU A PRECIOUS SNOWFLAKE pats on the back for every Very Special thing they say, write, or do.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:30:28 +0100

I need to find that page ask what they think of my character that I named Richard. Please read this and tell me Dick doesn't suck! He has two brothers named Peter and John Thomas. Oh, I could keep this up all day.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:44:05 +0100

[quote=Gimmemocha] "I've read your list of character names and I'm not entirely sure that a reading audience will want to put up with 300 pages of the adventures of Kyalania, T'vari'an, and Lithianore," will only cause wailing and weeping and someone telling you that you are, in their considered opinion, a poopie head. [/quote] YES. Also, even well-written, professional, published fantasy makes me cringe. Don't get me started on NaNo fantasy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 22:56:09 +0100

Those first two names probably wouldn't be all that unusual in my area of the world. ;) I think the South holds the record for Most Culturally Oddest Names That Are Difficult To Pronounce in the world. I'm so not even kidding. (Though I do see your point.) Heh. Maybe if I'm having trouble with names, I can just start reading name tags at the grocery store..

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 23:00:42 +0100

I tend to think that the ones who say they are starting off with absolutely no plot in mind either actually DO have a vague idea of a plot (but don't want to commit to it completely), or they are the ones who tend to give up because they're story isn't going anywhere. On the other hand, it may be that they're writing in a stream-of-consciousness kind of way, sort of like how some folks keep diaries about their lives even though they aren't focusing on writing about anything in their life in particular. Those kinds of things can be REALLY difficult to read, but oh well. Heh. This thread has made me feel ashamed that thus far, I'm writing about vampires, unicorns, and even folks who are either gay or questioning their sexuality. But, to the very least, I'm trying to put my own spin on it and make it more humorous, interesting, and spiritually deep and less a throwaway trash romance novel. But we'll see what happens.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:26:44 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] this thread is making me feel better. I was starting to have moments of wondering if I'm not a "real" NaNo-er because I don't have a fantasy world, vampires, or werewolves. This is my first NaNo, so maybe it's just newbie ignorance? [/quote] No, you don't have to write exclusively, or at all, about lesbian vampires zombies from Middle Earth to be a true NaNo'er. I don't, in four years, though I did horror a couple years in a row.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 08:26:49 +0100

But I thought nearly all the great vampire stories were about thinly veiled homo-eroticism and uncontrollable sexual urges? Or did my Gothic Lit lecturer have it wrong?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:23:11 +0100

Oh, and it neglected to mention that vampires now just take these pills every day so they don't drain blood anymore. Only really mean rude ones still do that. And everyone in the village is gay or gay-friendly, because it's England, and even the vicar doesn't mind...and he's really hawt, of course.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:15:51 +0100

[quote=pencilcase] ...the adventures of Kyalania, T'vari'an, and Lithianore "Vanishing Sword of Blonthumenn when he fought H'rentuv at the battle of Algornd..." [/quote] So. Many. Consonants. And. Apostrophes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:37:23 +0100

Okay, pet peeve. I write fantasy. So shoot me. But fantasy doesn't mean that I need to tie my tongue in knots to pronounce character and place names. And if there's a gay vampire in my story, you better believe he'll be menacing (fabulously so) not sparkly. This story is definitely rated R for violence. Just when I thought the Lord of the Rings movies and the success of the Game of Thrones first season made fantasy cool for once, I am reminded that Twilight set us back. Curse you and your lovestruck werewolves, Meyers.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:06:20 +0100

I have an Art, a Dani, an Eva, a Derek, and an Evan. I may throw a Bob in there just for fun. And Art is short for Archibald (unusual name that just makes me laugh).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MBee — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:56:50 +0100

There is some great fantasy out there. I love love love A song of Ice and Fire (game of thrones series) and anything by Canadian author Guy Gavril Kay, but those specific authors know how to craft a story and a world without boring you to death with front loaded world building and political BS. I"ve written fantasy as well, but I try to keep my town and character names easily pronounceable and I fill in background and geography as I go rather than have the first 5 chapters describe the whole damn planet and it's past 1000 yrs of history. People take Twilight too seriously. I've read the books. I can even say I enjoyed them, BUT I will not tell you that it is good writing. I will not tell you that Bella is a fantastic role model for young girls. I will not tell you sparkly vampires are awesome. But, I will tell you that Meyers tapped into that fantasy that so many women have where two hot guys fight over them and would die for them etc. It's appealing. It's an easy read. It's something they can lose themselves in. Bella is this plain Jane boring type of character. People can see themselves as being much better than her and if she can attract that kind of attention then maybe they could too (in their fantasy world anyhow).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:53:08 +0100

More on this: I also play D&D, and have loads of fun making up names. Even my elves, though, don't have tongue twister weird names. Heavy on the "l" sounds, sure, in the Tolkein tradition. But not tongue twisters. But one time...... I played a fairy. Think Tinkerbell, but 2 feet tall. There was a real in-game reason to play a fairy; I don't normally do this. Because she was so exotic - literally not of the world - I gave her the longest, tongue twisty-est name I could think of. I just started throwing letters together. On top of that, she spoke in a very squeaky fast voice, which I roleplayed. I think the name was was Lyriathallamistrashalltoofestathansesheba. So, when my character met the other characters, the other players all picked up pencils to jot down the name for reference. Then I introduced the fairy character in this squeaky voice, with the full name. Blank looks all around. Pause. One player finally breaks the ice. "Okay, so you're Lyria." "No it's Lyriathalla -" "LYRIA. Moving on." About two minutes later, during a long conversation in my squeaky voice, another player signals the gamesmaster and interrupts. "Uh, I kill her. The fairy." "What? You need her as a guide." "I don't care. I KILL THE FUCKING FAIRY. " That was the most fun character ever. And how I got my user name.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:08:13 +0100

Preach it, sister!!! I don't think I could honestly switch genres even if I wanted to. I write what I write, but I'm at least trying to make it more "down to earth". I have no desire to be the next Tolkein or Meyers. J. K. Rowling or C. S. Lewis, maybe.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 21:14:31 +0100

I wish these forums had a "like" option on the comments, because I would Like the hell out of this. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 21:17:09 +0100

Hee hee!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 21:29:04 +0100

Win.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:01:31 +0100

In homage to Clerks, you should name your hamster 'Annoying Brother' :) Also (from Baldur's Gate) I've been a fan of the Hamster named 'Boo'.... Well played!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 10:03:38 +0100

This.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Gimmemocha — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 00:19:44 +0100

Heh... Did you just come in a thread titled "Pissed Off Cynics" and suggest we stop being quite so cynical? ;D

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 14:33:51 +0100

It's not their bad writing (or even bad ideas about stories) that bothers me. It's the OMG I AM THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE mentality. Such as one person told me that my story sounds stupid because it is about two brothers who fight demons, meanwhile her story was awesome because it was about two brothers who became vampires. Yes, because my story has demons and not vampires, it was stupid. Or the one kid of 15 who started a thread in the genre forum about 'rate my story!' and then got pissed when someone posted their synopsis without giving her story a high rating first.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:12:13 +0100

I tend to write with only the vaguest of ideas about what I'm doing for NaNo. Sometimes things just happen, and generally a plot happens AS I write, and it allows me to move with the flow of the story and I find it's very, very hard to write myself into a corner. I don't go adding lesbian werewolf sex like the NaNos in my region seem to think is the way to solve writing problems; but my characters my meet someone else, they might have a discussion which leads to them revealing more about themselves than I first realised, or that conversation might lead to conflict. I generally have a vague idea of characters to begin with, but I find that as I start writing their story and they start talking and doing things, I learn a bit more about them and then that leads to story happening. I don't go in with everything perfectly plotted out: I find that giving myself serious limits like that can really lock me in a corner on occasions and make me freak out for not doing things "properly." Another thing: I tend to write a LOT of queer characters. It's just what I do. But I think there's a world of difference between just writing them and then going to the boards and being an idiot and asking things like, "How do gay guys act?" or writing godawful trope-y stereotypes or just doing that fetishizing thing, etc, etc.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 09:25:07 +0100

See: Interview with a Vampire. Sexuality + Immortality = Fun 4 Everyone.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MBee — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:54:03 +0100

It's certainly not a new thing. There are lots of books out there where vampires are equal opportunity when it comes to the sex of their meals and their lovers. Recently, True Blood is a good example of that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 14:59:12 +0100

You don't really have to be pissed off to be a cynic. Though, I must say that it seems that the cynics have written more words (just from random sampling) than many of the cheery people. I do think it's great for the teens to be excited about trying this...even if they don't succeed. But then, I'm a parent of younger kids and hope my kids will take an interest in writing one day.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:58:19 +0100

Lol! I think you're seeing more a catharsis effect.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:48:51 +0100

I'm glad I'm not the only Clerks fan here. "I'M NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!"

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MBee — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 13:00:30 +0100

Adopt a Kitsune? How about adopt an Oni to eat all the Kitsune? I'd like to see how that goes over. I guess thanks to all the social networks the kids are involved in now leave them treating the forums here like a place to leave stupid status updates and whatever. I should go in some of those forums and tell them I'm writing a novel about killing Justin Bieber and ask for advice on which way to do it. That could bring about some comedy gold... /yay yaoi! :D

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:01:16 +0100

The forums are a diversion for me. But validation cannot come from anyone else or its meaningless. And special snowflake is a little too cheery for this forum.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Tephra — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:55:09 +0100

[quote=wineandravens] --Throw down, write, WIN!, edit later. This is the NaNo code.-- [/quote] Now where can I get that on some NaNo merch? :D

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:40:05 +0100

An Oni eating a Kitsune-Bieber. Now THAT is a plot bunny worthy of NaNo!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:30:09 +0100

That is totally my take on pessimism, you're either right or happily surprised. I don't know how anyone can live with the pain of optimism in moments of true crisis.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:12:32 +0100

Heh. Maybe the more cheerful, hopeful types are too busy writing (or, at this point, finishing and going beyond) their NaNo novels to post in the forums! I dunno if I'm a cynic, but I started a NaNo blog to write out my hopes, frustrations, and fears as I go through this November. Thus far, it's mostly frustration and fears. LOLOL!!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:37:47 +0100

[quote=graymojocat] And special snowflake is a little too cheery for this forum. [/quote] uM. Sarcasm, yeah. Guess you were feeling a bit too cynical to let that pass without comment huh? :P

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:24:42 +0100

ha! An Archibald ended up in my book too. He's a pretty important character actually. He has a lot of gravitas but people call him Archie, which is amusing. No Nero in the background through.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:31:07 +0100

[quote=graymojocat] It would be nice, though, to know whether or not I'm a good writer. Just out of curiosity. [/quote] Best way to do that is to publish. :) Unfortunately family and friends are not the kind of validation you should look for. People outside of your sphere should be interested in what you write. That said, I'm sure you'e better than quite a number of other writers here. I'm not sure if I'm much of a writer myself, but I'm going to at least get to a point where I can say 'I'm published' though quite possibly not very good.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 17:11:52 +0100

imho there's no satisfactory answer to this question. Not until you define what "good" means to you. Does it mean writing the kinds of books you like to read? Stories that keep toddlers entertained for hours? Novels that critics predict will join the canon of Great Western Literature? Successfully sustaining a set of characters through dozens of published books? Writing a novel that at least one person downloads to their Kindle? You could write like Dickens or Hemingway or Wodehouse and maybe someday there will be general agreement on the importance of your body of work, but there will still be people who don't like your style, don't like your plots, think your character development is too minimal or too heavy-handed, find your use of language too casual or too formal, and so on and on and on. You have to decide what "good" means to you before you can ask whether you are a good writer and expect an answer. And in the end maybe no-one else can answer for you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:06:09 +0100

You might be a good writer, you might not be. If you don't want to get published, does it matter? You're writing, you're engaging your mind and you're working toward a goal. If you want to know if it is any good, give it to a critical reader after you edited the sh&& out of it. Just make sure you give it to someone who is honest, instead of polite.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:05:39 +0100

Join a critique group. And a hard core one, not one that serves brownies and pats people on the back. (I run one over on LJ, if you're at all interested.) A good one will insist that you get better, and won't tolerate bad writing. It's hard, it's painful, but...you know, it does give you an idea as to whether you're getting better. (Pro tip: When you look at stuff you wrote three years ago, through was great then, and cringe, you're getting better.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

graymojocat — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:16:51 +0100

I'm not really looking for validation. I will write no matter what. Whether I'm good or not will determine whether or not I try to get published. I have found quite a bit of garbage out there that I KNOW I could write better than. But if I were to try to publish anything I wouldn't want it to just be more drivel.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:33:55 +0100

[quote=zenken] [quote=graymojocat] It would be nice, though, to know whether or not I'm a good writer. Just out of curiosity. [/quote] Best way to do that is to publish. :) Unfortunately family and friends are not the kind of validation you should look for. People outside of your sphere should be interested in what you write. That said, I'm sure you'e better than quite a number of other writers here. I'm not sure if I'm much of a writer myself, but I'm going to at least get to a point where I can say 'I'm published' though quite possibly not very good. [/quote] No, the worst way to do that is to publish-- rushing into print and selling to morons without taste or discernment is a horrible thing to have happen to your writing. It makes getting better look like it's not worth the time.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 03:36:31 +0100

I'm published and I'm the worst writer I know. There are so many barometers...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 23:22:59 +0100

Agreed. I think a lot of the cynicism has been brewing and getting steadily worse every year as NaNo becomes more popular and attracts more people who think of it as a whacky social adventure rather than a time to put fingers to keyboard and write. I don't remember there being a Pissed Off Cynics thread in any previous years I've done this. And it's not like we're pissing all over their parades and trying to shoot down the warm fuzzies/glittery sparklies on their threads. They have every right to be hyper and bouncy and irritating. I have the same right to stay away from them and to think they're acting like tools. And if someone else wants to vent about it, I'm more than happy to commiserate with them. I actually really love this thread because up until I saw it, I honestly thought I was the only one not into the rah-rah-rah whee-I'm-writing-a-novel [insert regional in-joke here] please-advise-me-on-something-painfully-minor we're-so-CRAAAAAZEEEEE for doing this WHEEE! Stop! Attentionwhore time! bullshit or the stuff that makes NaNoWriMo participants look scarily like cult members.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 18:53:57 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] You might be a good writer, you might not be. If you don't want to get published, does it matter? You're writing, you're engaging your mind and you're working toward a goal. If you want to know if it is any good, give it to a critical reader after you edited the sh&& out of it. Just make sure you give it to someone who is honest, instead of polite. [/quote] This x1000. "Good" is when you sit back after the 3rd revision and say, "Okay, now it doesn't suck quite as bad." You are your own worst critic in the end. Like Scratchingcat said, give your writing to someone you can trust to be honest and then expect them to tell you what doesn't work for them. Take the critique with a grain of salt and then hit it again! Just keep at it and LOVE it no matter what anyone says. Writing for someone else hardly ever produces anything but self-loathing anyway or so I've discovered. Shoot for 'proud of' and you'll be a better and happier writer!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:31:01 +0100

[quote=chinalizard] Preach it, sister!!! I don't think I could honestly switch genres even if I wanted to. I write what I write, but I'm at least trying to make it more "down to earth". I have no desire to be the next Tolkein or Meyers. J. K. Rowling or C. S. Lewis, maybe. [/quote] I know I'm a terrible B**th for saying it, but please do not mention the two women above in the same breath as Tolkien and Lewis, or I be sick all over this thread.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 20:41:32 +0100

I concur.

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snappyssidekick — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:26:18 +0100

Ha! Yip.

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JocelynNano — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:31:50 +0100

It's not a cult?

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Scratchingcat — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:40:03 +0100

As the Asian waiters sang in a Christmas story: Rah-Rah-Rah-Rah-Raahhh-Rha-Rhaa-Rha Rah!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:36:21 +0100

It's a constant influx of posts and the 'Coming Soon' Customize Forum button doesn't help. The forums are DEFINITELY better this year. More responsive and seems to crash a lot less. I would like the forums to hop to the new stuff, but that's not working....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 00:38:17 +0100

This is a safe place for terrible b***s.

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pencilcase — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 11:19:51 +0100

Tolkien was a woman!!? Wow...I never knew that. He hid it so well.

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zenken — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:33:54 +0100

[quote=heavy hedonist] No, the worst way to do that is to publish-- rushing into print and selling to morons without taste or discernment is a horrible thing to have happen to your writing. It makes getting better look like it's not worth the time. [/quote] What's the point of writing if only to please yourself? I don't think Stephanie Meyers rushed her work, but she definitely hit her core audience. Tolkein didn't write to a core audience and was certainly following a pattern based on his own work in linguistics. Yet still he struck a definite cord with a wide base of people (later magnified by the LotR movies, seen by a lot of people who don't have the attention span to read the book). Conversely, The English Patient was a terrible book, in my opinion, but plenty of people liked it (a lot more because of the significantly better movie adaptation). Am I wrong? Are they wrong? It doesn't matter, because the author got paid by both sides. You can publish, and see whether or not people want to read your book. You can also not publish and know that you'll be an unrecognized good writer in your own mind. Writing is hard work, creative work. Get rewarded for your work by putting your best effort in and publish. Or put your stuff out there for free for people to read. Whatever. Definitely the point of nano is to not get you to the published stage. It's a focused chance for you to put the raw plot material in the forge and to hammer out a barebones plot. When the material is there, it's a matter of time and patience for your revisions to get the book hammered, beaten and polished to a sharp witty edge. If you think a book isn't good enough to publish, throw it in the discard pile and pour more material into the forge and start again. You're the writer, the creator. Thinking your work will sell to morons is not an excuse to publish if it's publishable in your estimation. It hasn't stopped Dan Brown from writing his terribly constructed stories sprinkled with a loose daisy chain of fact and conjecture. You want people to read your book While I don't think you have to write with the reader in mind, you'll know what your target demographic is at least subconsciously. Hmm. This has digressed a bit from the point of the thread. Boo on those 'rah rah' people! I went to one of those write-ins last year. I was the only guy there (which wasn't a problem for me). No one talked to me and no one asked my opinion on a plot idea or whatnot. I guess I am intimidating and I find for me, writing is a personal journey and pursuit. No more write-ins for me, I think. Easy to say over here in Africa. :)

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snappyssidekick — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 01:24:02 +0100

You complete me.

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Lyria2 — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 14:28:01 +0100

And if it is, where are the orgies? Please don't tell me I joined one of those celibate cults!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 08:03:11 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I'm published and I'm the worst writer I know. There are so many barometers... [/quote] You're not trolling the forums enough, man!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 12:35:09 +0100

Damn! Back to trolololo.

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Scratchingcat — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:52:04 +0100

Oh look, a correctly formed Latin plural! I like you already!

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rosymamacita — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:09:50 +0100

I had to do it. I wrote "forums" and then kept staring at it. I knew it was accepted, but I just didn't like it.

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Lyria2 — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:21:31 +0100

I'd like that just for "fora"!

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MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:59:46 +0100

That's rather descriptive.

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rosymamacita — Wed, 09 Nov 2011 23:37:40 +0100

When it comes down to it, people are using nano for different things. For many of us here on this thread, I think we're actually trying to write novels, we probably have worked on writing before nano, and would have even if nano didn't exist. We see a bunch of people who are doing nano for the challenge of it, or the fun of it, or the community of it, and it just doesn't sit right. And then there are the people who are using nano as a way in to being a more serious writer. Maybe they thought they'd never could do it and they are learning that they DO have that novel in them. Maybe they are doing nano to exorcise their personal demons. Maybe they think they'd like to be a writer, but they really have no idea what it means to be a writer and they're just floundering along with plot bunnies and the travelling shovel of the death and adopt a plots etc. I actually think that's cool. Let them use nano any way they want. More people interested in writing can only mean that more people are interested in reading and more people are creative and more people might want to read my book when I finally get it published. But I don't want to hang out with them. I don't want advice on writing from them. I don't want to play games with them. So it's nice to come here where it's not so *squee*ish.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:27:59 +0100

yes, this. The first time I read something along the lines of "add a ninja" I thought huh? There's no place for a ninja to be in my story. Makes no sense. I also came across a post by someone who was proud of having executed the trick of writing out every single acronym and abbreviation: NYC = New York City, good for three words instead of one, and so on. That kind of trick doesn't appeal to me. I believe in turning off the inner editor but only up to a point, I guess. I'm a good enough typist that I don't need the practice of simply putting words on a page. If I did, I'd be more likely to transcribe something that would be useful to me, like one of the books I want to own but can't afford. Maybe what I'm discovering is the vast variety of different levels of sh!tty writing... no, I don't expect my first draft to be any good, and I'm learning that even at a steady pace of 2,000 words a day I'll only be able to sketch out about half the scenes I think should be in the fully formed book. So NaNo has shifted in my mind from "write a first draft" to something more like "write a detailed outline with notes as to where more detail should go". I don't need to prove to myself that I can type 50K words into a piece of software. I'm not going to do hard-core editing, but I don't have the desire to type just to get finger exercise. I have no interest in randomly inserting polka-dotted elephants doing the charleston into a dramatic scene. (Although I'd love to write a book that included polka-dotted dancing elephants). I want to challenge myself to see what it's like to try to write a long piece of fiction that has the potential to hang together. Much more difficult than I thought. Otoh I am grateful to NaNo because without it, it would have taken me maybe another 20 years to get serious enough to make a daily writing schedule and stick to it. I am learning a lot about how I work if nothing else.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 03:14:31 +0100

My first nano, I flaked for the first week or so, then rushed to finish. I did it, but those first 50 K were A MESS~ And I had had an outline. I vowed never again. So yeah. I use a back space. I don't care how many baby nano angels I kill. I delete sentences all the time. But right now, I'm on top of it. But, you know, when I was behind, I was down to the wire (I finished with about an hour to spare) and I just wanted to DO IT! Those tricks came in handy, and I was really proud of myself when I won.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:34:25 +0100

this is a fascinating idea. I'd love to see a chart of popular NaNo topics and character types--how many of those ninjas actually get into the stories? Is there any correlation between age and genre, age and character type? Any correlation between number of forum posts and number of words in the novel? In my much younger days, I used to cringe whenever I re-read something I'd written, because my own utopian visions were far too obvious no matter how I tried to disguise them. I could tell by reading a story that it was written in 5th grade when my dream was to be an opera singer, or whatever. I wonder if this is more generally true? Could one tell from NaNo drafts what peoples' aspirations are, what kinds of problems they are facing, what sorts of subcultures they identify with? Seems quite possible to me. Of course, given the privacy issues, the feasibility of such a study seems low.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:38:08 +0100

I agree. I think the idea of NaNoWriMo is pretty damn awesome, or else I wouldn't be here. We (I'm co-writing) are not published authors - but we are trying to use this as a jumping off point to finally write what we've been kicking around for a long time now. Make someday today, right? I'm even okay with some of the free-for-all bit of it, like plot bunnies. I get it - the idea is to follow an inspiration and maybe it'll turn into something that you think is better than your main plot. Or become a sub-plot. Or, after NaNo, gets spun into a completely separate work. Not everyone likes to stick to an outline. What gets me is the rah-rah part of it. That's what gets me. Like Bibliosylph, it's part of a whole societal thing right now that's pissing me off generally. This, people, is why I don't have a facebook account! This is why I don't text my friends all the time! I don't need every moment of my life validated, and I don't want to waste moments validating their life. Same thing with the novels here. Write, have a ninja or don't. Just don't ask me to tell you to write in a ninja or lesbian werewolf, or to assure you that ninjas are perfectly okay. It's your novel - you decide if ninjas are okay.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

studentofrhythm — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:44:10 +0100

You've hit the nail squarely on the head: both in your grasp of my intent and your view of the problems involved. But I would like to find *some* way to do it . . .

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:40:00 +0100

[quote=snappyssidekick] So yeah. I use a back space. I don't care how many baby nano angels I kill [/quote] This is the image that's going to creep into my mind every time I use my backspace from now on. Thank you. /die, baby nano angels, die!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:55:55 +0100

I admit, I send people to http://Lmgtfy.com when they ask stupid questions.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:26:45 +0100

[quote=Penemuel] Actually I only hate the fact that there are parts of the story I HAVE to write before I can get up to the FUN stuff. Certain things need to be established before mayhem can ensue, and that can be pretty boring. But it certainly doesn't make me hate either my plot OR my characters. [/quote] Same here. I know I have to take a chapter or two to develop my Bad Guy now and well I don't want to. He's not fun and he's two dimensional but if I don't take time to get to know him, he'll stay that way! Other than that, I love my characters and my plot. I get the eye twitch when I read that "motivational" crap too. Maybe we just approach this process differently than the masses?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:40:26 +0100

...a ninja...hmmmm...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:54:43 +0100

[quote=snappyssidekick] Yes, when I see stuff like, Throw a ninja in your novel, a tiny, but blood-curdling battle cry goes off in my head screamin "not in my novel!" [/quote] While I'm fairly encouraging, I detest the term 'plot bunnies'. I don't have plots that multiply. It's an idea that either matures and evolves into a plot/subplot for a story or gets shelved as a new idea. They do not multiply, though ideas can come to mind unbidden, it's often a fractal effect of one idea I was thinking about. There's a point for me when the idea grows to a certain point, it needs to be written down. It's almost a full story tree. An idea is more like a seed than a humping group of rabbits. The only time I've seen a use for the ninja is in the Tales of the Otori Trilogy....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

studentofrhythm — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:33:00 +0100

Yes, what *is* up with the whole ninja thing? At least it's not &^*$%#@! zombies. I guess it makes sense if you do approach this whole thing like a game. I thought I could do that this month, but even if my novel serves no other purpose than to flush some pipes, I care too much about what it could lead to; I can't approach it entirely as a game. Maybe if I hadn't been wrestling with grave desires to actually *write good novels* for the past 20+ years it would be different.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

studentofrhythm — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:45:59 +0100

He heh - that's pretty clever.

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Darbrashelle — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:42:24 +0100

Nice!!

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wineandravens — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:19:28 +0100

I'm still trying to figure out how I can use that Oni eating a Kitsune-Bieber plot. It has to be better than just plain ole ninjas.. I'm really tempted to do a super campy spaghetti western for next NaNo.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:59:18 +0100

[quote=zenken]The only time I've seen a use for the ninja is in the Tales of the Otori Trilogy.... [/quote] Or if Sho Koshugi makes a cameo in your story.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 22:38:26 +0100

I actually think you would benefit from the "just write" ideas. You need to stop worrying about whether or not it is the RIGHT idea and just get the words down. When you have some words down, it will come clearer to you when they are the right ones.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:50:39 +0100

Someone pointed out an excellent fact earlier. 50,000 words is not enough for your novel, but 50,000 words is enough for a skeleton of your novel. If you write down your story as an idea, it's mechanics and general flow from beginning to end, you'll know if you have either more story to tell, or not enough. Sketches of chapters are better than no chapters, and it's not writing song lyrics and talking to yourself.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:02:33 +0100

[quote=ali_marea]We're in, what, week 2? I have less than 200 words written. Not because I'm editing, because I'm not writing. Once I start I'll take off. Seriously, I type really fast (like 132 wpm at my best) and when I'm on a roll I can write around 10k in a day. Now if I'm at this point in another week, I'm screwed. [/quote] I am the SAME WAY. Don't feel bad. Different people write in different ways. I do this and ScriptFrenzy each year. I have yet to NOT make my word/page count, though it's often the last week and a half when I do the bulk of the writing. It's just how I write. I start off slow, I let things percolate in my head and then when I get down to business, it just flows right out of me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

studentofrhythm — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:28:32 +0100

Yes: anyone can, so everyone does. The worst part of it is that those who are serious about a creative enterprise and want to do it right are the ones exercising more restraint and spending more time trying to hone their craft, and thus more likely to be overlooked as those who don't know enough to know they don't know enough yet gleefully inflict what should be their private practice sessions or just private self-therapy on everyone else.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

sparkoflove — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 06:33:59 +0100

Or maybe it's a hobby... like so many other things. Just because your regular Joe plays basketball at the gym doesn't mean he thinks he'll make a career of it. Just because someone likes singing in their car or shower doesn't mean they think they are the next American Idol. Just because someone likes to garden doesn't mean they think they should have their own show on HGTV. I mean, I could go on and on. Just because people enjoy something doesn't mean they are trying to make a career out of it. It's a hobby. And I don't think people should only do things they are good at. I think it's awesome if people do things that they enjoy just for that simple reason.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 23:43:00 +0100

Everyone is a strangler.

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McMurfin — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:02:30 +0100

Yep, everyone is special - but only to themselves....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:58:43 +0100

It's a bit tougher with music and art and photography and, well, e-pub. The truth is, everyone does get to publish. I know a few real serious photographers and real serious musicians who are struggling with a very crowded chaotic field right now.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 18:14:26 +0100

^ Me. I had to quit being a Commercial Photographer because... well every Tom, Dick, and Kumar has a digital camera now and thinks they don't need to hire someone to do it for them. It makes me very twitchy some days and I miss the studio but I just couldn't make it in this economy... so I went back to being Mom-Writer-Person. Sure e-publishing has been changing the field for us writers but I'm leaning on it being for the better. There are some real stinkers out there pumping out "books" that make me want to throw my Nook but I've found some really enjoyable, talented writers that are finally getting noticed. That makes me happy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:37:46 +0100

[quote=wineandravens] I'm still trying to figure out how I can use that Oni eating a Kitsune-Bieber plot. It has to be better than just plain ole ninjas.. I'm really tempted to do a super campy spaghetti western for next NaNo. [/quote] I've been wanting to write a futuristic noir detective story for a few months. I think I'll sit on that idea for a while and let it germinate for another year at least.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 00:05:00 +0100

[quote=wineandravens] [quote=Penemuel] Actually I only hate the fact that there are parts of the story I HAVE to write before I can get up to the FUN stuff. Certain things need to be established before mayhem can ensue, and that can be pretty boring. But it certainly doesn't make me hate either my plot OR my characters. [/quote] Same here. I know I have to take a chapter or two to develop my Bad Guy now and well I don't want to. He's not fun and he's two dimensional but if I don't take time to get to know him, he'll stay that way! Other than that, I love my characters and my plot. I get the eye twitch when I read that "motivational" crap too. Maybe we just approach this process differently than the masses? [/quote] That could very well be it! In my case, it's bringing a whole bunch of different parties together from great distances, and unless *poof* magically they're all there, reports have to be made, other people have to be called, etc. etc. etc.. I know I COULD go out of order and write the part I want to write first, but then I'm really stuck with the 'work' part of it later on. I'd rather slog through it now, so that when I hit the fun part, I can just run with it... Of course, I finally hit one of those fun parts today, and when I get home & finish dinner, I'm going to b a writing machine :D

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:22:14 +0100

Like I've said: I'm an optimistic and positive person for the most part. I can be peppier than my MLs. I like pep talks, and I don't mind writing crap for my first draft. (That's what I'm trying to do now: I'm writing this novel backwards, and at the end of it all I might end up adapting it into a movie treatment anyway.) And once in a while I throw song lyrics, ninjas, and unicorns into my novels. So I don't hate people for being happy. In fact, I would rather take happy people than some jerkass telling me that I should write something more "important" than the little mystery novel that I'm writing right now. That said, what I'm seeing here in this thread is that we're talking about being tired of it all. I'm tired of the smugness and pretentiousness and being given the side-eye just because I'm writing a trope-heavy mystery novel for the first time. At the end of the day, I just want to write, and I just want to meet people who are genuinely into the process instead of being a pain-in-the-ass, regardless of how positively or negatively they view the world. And if THAT makes me a bad NaNoWriter, then go ahead and shoot me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:48:50 +0100

1. Write ins are supposed to be a chance to motivate and write. Some people do not need motivation to write. They need isolation with their novel. They're not for everyone, so don't assume cynics are asocial and hate people. Some people also like social interaction, but what they find at write-ins isn't what they are getting. I think it might have more to do with disparity of work. It's hard to ask a question about FTL drives when the person next to you is writing a Fantasy novel. 2. Plot bunnies, ninjas, traveling shovels of death are just memes and crutches for you to think you're writing something useful, when all you're going to do is hit the delete button at the end of the month. To paraphrase Eric Hoffer, when people are bored with their novels, it is primarily with themselves. Something is missing from your work and a gay vampire zombie ninja bunny will not fix it. 3. It is okay to have fun and enjoy yourself, and I don't think anyone here is emo. We'd prefer the pretense of starting off with the idea that our novel is a Good Idea and we should shepherd it to the first draft, or that the novel is a Bad Idea and we need to save it from the Bargain Bin at the bookstore one damn sentence at a time. 4. We like NaNo. A lot of us are repeat participants and even repeat winners. Being a cynic does not equate to pessimism, nor is it the antithesis of optimism. We question whether all the pretend lollipops and rainbows is worthwhile. Feel free to pat the back of the writer who starts crying because their novel is crap on November 29th and how to fix it by throwing in a ninja and it will all be better. The cynics will write what's in our self interest: The Novel. I enjoy reading the writers in this thread. If you read closely, you'll find optimism tempered with creative labor and realism. I seems to be what the folks on this thread are like. I'll continue to encourage people in my own way. I need to go work on my novel today.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 20:30:32 +0100

There is nothing wrong with being genuinely happy. I am happy about 85% of the time. Happiness, however, does not equate to the reality that a horrible novel is a horrible novel. My aim with starting this thread was not to inadvertently declare "Cheerleaders be damned!" That would be silly. My aim with this thread was to allow those who felt that some of the OTT cliches of NaNo were unnecessary, the room to breathe and vent. That doesn't mean I'm going to kick your dog or dunk my genitalia in your oatmeal. That would be crass. By nature some of us just have a different outlook on writing. While I don't believe the demeanor of the author has to do with their ultimate success as a writer, I do believe that a realistic approach to this contest is what's required in order to produce a viable skeletal structure for a subsequent work. Filling a page with nonsense is the anti-thesis of taking your writing seriously. If it was all about word count then you could just write "Bagel" on a sheet of paper and copy pasta until you had 50k or more. That act would take you less than a few hours. I consider adding things like ninjas, vampires, ridiculously worn cliches and the like to that effect. Why bother? Sure, you're a winner but what have you really won? Instead, you've cheated yourself out of what may potentially be a future magnum opus. I heard once that literary agents despise nano because it builds fodder for the slush pile that they have to traipse through during the months of December - February. I have made a conscious decision to keep my work out of that slush pile. If you choose to turn your story into a Rube Goldberg-esque jaunt into obscurity, then I have no problem with that. No one may tell you how your art should come out of you. However, being realistic about your writing gives you perspective enough to get better. I believe that's all that anyone here wants. We write because we need the practice, because we ache for the story, because we can't eat or sleep or think coherently until we have the words out of us. (At least that's how it works for me.) I consider it second only to exorcism and orgasm. I, personally, could care less about what someone else writes. Let them fill pages upon pages with the drivel that bleeds from their heads on a regular basis, but don't think that the whole "The world needs your novel," bullshit applies to stories without artistic merit, well thought out characters, good plots or complimentary story arcs. That's just pissing in an ocean of piss. Anyone can write a book. (Snooki ghostwrote two and they're bestsellers!) People do it all the time. Is it hard? Yes. Does it take motivation and discipline? Yes. Will readers put up with poor writing? Yes. (Stephanie Meyer) Do I ever want someone to blow sunshine up my ass and tell me that the book I wrote is amazing when it's utter crap? Not hardly. That's the whole point of this thread. Don't patronize me. I know a first draft is junk. Don't try and make it worse by telling me I'm special because I can bang on a typewriter for hours at a time. My cat does that arbitrarily. In the end as Zenken said, I care about my work. I care about it enough to not cast it upon the masses if it is complete and utter caca. I respect readers more than that. I respect myself more than that. Maybe you do too. Maybe this is something that you are just trying out so that you can send proverbial postcards to all your friends describing the process. I'm fine with that. Good on you. I'm not fox-trotting with vanity. I write because I have to; because I feel the words writhing under my skin; because if I don't I go a little bit mad; because until they are set free they eat at every mitochondria until my skeleton shivers.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:28:30 +0100

I love trope heavy mysteries! And hey, so do a lot of people. The bookstores are full of them.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:58:08 +0100

I honestly don't think it matters. If you want to put literal ninjas in, put literal ninjas in. It's not like they're going to grade everyone for accurate usage. XD I'm not going to throw a disembodied mustache into the mix of my story, because it will go two ways as soon as I do: -- Either it will be completely cartoonish, and upset the balance of what I'm trying to accomplish; -- It will be intentionally, disturbingly creepy in a way no one except me could imagine. Or it may end up a little of both. I'm also not GETTING UP at 3 AM *intentionally* I may *stay up* until 3 AM tonight (seeing as how it's Friday and I don't have to work tomorrow), but I'm not setting my alarm for such an ungodly hour.....because my husband would KILL me. (Once he's awake....he's AWAKE!!!) I plan to get a LOT done this weekend though; I'm ever-conscious of the impending doom coming up at the end of this month... .....and then there's Thanksgiving, which is a whole separate affair. (Our anniversary's on the 22nd of this month. This will be the 3rd. :D )

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:10:44 +0100

I commend your moustache highly. It is, after all, Movember, the greatest month of all. :{)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

A D Puchalski — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:48:05 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] That doesn't mean I'm going to kick your dog or dunk my genitalia in your oatmeal. [/quote] I think this is the best line I've read all day. I avoided the whole Nano thing for the first few years after I started writing because it was so rah-rah. I like that there's a thread here for the people who want to do this as something other than a fan boy/girl activity. I'm fairly new to the whole concept of writing novels (in prose, anyway) and this seemed like a good exercise in forcing me to get a story out without wandering off and not returning. And while I don't consider myself unhappy, I'm not the bright, shiny, bubbly type, so it's nice to find some other cynics...?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 03:12:33 +0100

Chapters are so last season...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Geolie — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 04:31:18 +0100

No worries, chop it up on re-write. I stopped labeling chapters and just put * * * between ideas. Not mid-sentence, of course...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Geolie — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 04:28:45 +0100

I second that...might be one of the best I've read the last eleven days. And, just so you know I'm not blowing "...sunshine up your ass...," as for the the last three lines? A little indulgent... As for me, I like sunshine so please reign in any urge to retaliate, tiger. ; )

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:17:32 +0100

[quote=A D Puchalski] [quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] That doesn't mean I'm going to kick your dog or dunk my genitalia in your oatmeal. [/quote] I think this is the best line I've read all day. [/quote] Exactly my thoughts when I read that line. I was very grateful that I had already swallowed that drink of coffee; my keyboard and monitor were equally grateful.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 05:07:57 +0100

Hahahah. Yeah, heat of the moment got me. It happens.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:27:56 +0100

I did the same once I realized I had a 1000 word "chapter". It was supposed to be bigger, but meh just didn't turn out that way. I'm just putting in break markers, keeping the events in chronological order, and I'll sort all the rest out later.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Geolie — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 07:56:06 +0100

(grin) Believe me, I relate...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

A D Puchalski — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 02:39:52 +0100

I work with interns a lot. It's natural to want to tell "kids" to STFU. It is also OK to do so once in a while. On the other hand, no doubt I would tell said kids to spell out "Shut the fuck up" rather than using the text-friendly version... (ducks flying dishes and pans). That's one of my issues with Nano -- I would actually like to meet more people who write, but going through the forums is too much like listening to the inters talk about TV. And I get paid to deal with that. Thus, lurking in the "cynics" den. Sigh.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:16:23 +0100

I'm outside of Ann Arbor, too, and I have to say, I haven't gone to one Write In. They just don't fit my life right now. That's ok. I don't need them. It's easier to let them just fade to static anyway. I do like the forums, sometimes, though. I like to dip in and get out and get back to writing when I can. Agree though, about this being a nice breath of fresh air where we don't have to be rah rah. So many of the other forums are flooded with the kids and it gets tiring.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 17:39:03 +0100

Yes! I loved Jonathan Lethem's pep talk. It gave me freedom to stop worrying about how much (or little) detail I tend to put in my fiction. It will stick with me, as well! Guys, it's like this, there are lots of places here for Rah Rahing and plot bunnies, ninjas and asking if Outback has take-out. This is the place to complain about that. If you got insulted, or your feelings hurt...I'm truly sorry. Our barbs were not supposed to hit their marks.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:22:09 +0100

What sort of Scotch are we talking about here...?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 18:52:46 +0100

The delicious kind. Is there any other? :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:26:24 +0100

Scotch far more expensive than any I can afford. I like to have a wealthy character around for such indulgences. He has a very old case of Glenfiddich he inherited from his father.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 19:14:27 +0100

Have you ever knocked back a Dewers White Label? Stuff tastes like the inside of Joseph Goebbels' trousers. (I'd imagine) I have a sneaking suspicion that Dewers makes scotch in used antifreeze barrels recovered from the Charles River.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 22:52:38 +0100

I'm Irish. My inner alcoholic doesn't care. :) Though I mostly stick to JD and absinthe.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

A D Puchalski — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 02:43:09 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I have a sneaking suspicion that Dewers makes scotch in used antifreeze barrels recovered from the Charles River. [/quote] Next artisan trend: Antifreeze casks. Who needs sherry-aged single malt after that?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:24:15 +0100

(facepalm) I wonder what their parents think about that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 00:25:24 +0100

INTP fist bump. (except we would never, ever do that, would we...yeesh, sorry) I like the idea of going and meeting the people. I even like holding court among them. But then I always suddenly realize ohmygod I have to get away from people Right Now, and crawl back into my cave. And I don't really get it about the stickers, but the people who run my region are not too manic, and seem fairly pleasant and smart, if a bit "in crowd" ish. If I'm honest, the concept of a write-in sort of loses me, but then there are those people who feed creatively from others, and I'm sure it's probably good for me to at least be in the presence of them sometimes. I think the hardest thing here would be to be a quiet, reserved teenager looking for a little company or commiseration and encountering nothing but manic chalk-drawn kitties types. The equivalent of going out for a nice quiet dinner and having Zooey Deschanel as your waitress. Hopefully they find what they need and are not driven away by the overwhelming nature of it all.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:35:28 +0100

Another INTP chiming in to say "I agree." On all of this. I do like the idea of quiet, low-key write-ins and meetups where people are encouraged to write. A friend organised one of them years ago and it was excellent except that my typing speed intimidated someone else there. :( Otherwise, it was good. The weekly meetups in my area aren't like this. They're loud and often themed and there are too many people who like being the centre of attention there.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:19:55 +0100

Heh. Having faces to encourage me, knowing there's other real people here in town that are also attempting NaNo, has actually been a huge encouragement to me! There's some talking, but mostly it's just all of us writing together. This past Saturday, we did one word sprint, which was kind of fun. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:40:29 +0100

Off topic. I love Babylon 5 and therefor your Avi and your story idea.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:37:38 +0100

"Yeah, mum, I PROMISE if you let me do NaNoWriMo I'll not fail school..." When I hear stuff like this, I actually can agree with parents not letting their kids do NaNo. I have a sneaking suspicion that this poster isn't *just* doing NaNo or homework, you know? Part of the thing with NaNo is that you shave your time off other areas of your life, or try to make it fit... you don't replace the essentials with writing...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:20:49 +0100

That's why next year we need a group. Complete with a disclaimer and an "Enter at ye own risk for here there be cynics" sign.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:23:40 +0100

That's annoyed me about this format of forums since day one. Would it really be THAT hard to go to a phpBB2 format? Or at least find a way to find the new posts without having to read every single post in the thread??

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 04:25:55 +0100

Over 30 is a must, don't you think?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

sayrah80 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 06:57:42 +0100

Yes and yes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JocelynNano — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 05:41:51 +0100

My household INTP won't go to the meetups. I'm an ENTP, and I go. Don't get much writing done, but don't get threatened with rabbits or masked warriors either. :) It's nice to meet other nano fiends. Maybe you guys from the big regions just need to set up separate meets? Like a "Ban the Bunny" write in or something... so you can meet the other like minded people, as opposed to the cheerleaders?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

stellameimei96 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 18:56:11 +0100

[quote=Jessindistress] "Yeah, mum, I PROMISE if you let me do NaNoWriMo I'll not fail school..." When I hear stuff like this, I actually can agree with parents not letting their kids do NaNo. I have a sneaking suspicion that this poster isn't *just* doing NaNo or homework, you know? Part of the thing with NaNo is that you shave your time off other areas of your life, or try to make it fit... you don't replace the essentials with writing... [/quote] Yet another great argument for pushing the Young Writer's Program. Seriously, somebody needs to tell these kids that nobody's holding a gun to their heads.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Misty Mills — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 14:18:09 +0100

Good, I was starting to wonder if being !INTP would get me banned. :) Actually, I took the test twice. I came up INFP once with one point on the I side higher than median. Then I took it again a few days later and came out ENFP, one point higher on the E. So I'm pretty much midline on that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:15:23 +0100

I was editing in June, but I did it in July. Does that count?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:21:37 +0100

I always get confused what I am, I think it's because I've come up differently. INFP, INTJ? INTP? The one thing I do know is I'm IN... I need my writing with a side of SHHHHHHH.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:59:28 +0100

It's been better than it was. Each year it's like the rewrite the code, though it does get faster and more reliable each time. Arguably they take away more features....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:59:48 +0100

like an edit button.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:35:00 +0100

[quote=zenken] like an edit button. [/quote] Amen to that. although, as a certified atheist, it might come off as faux. off topic, I'm startled to see how many other INTP's are in this thread. I have always been ther only one I knew. Does this mean I'm NOT a special snowflake from Buffalo?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:09:25 +0100

Yeah, that is probably the stupidest question ever. But when you click on the guys profile it doesn't come up, it just kicks you back to the dashboard. I don't know if it's someone's idea of a joke or what. But seriously, if it is a real question, then the guy must be living under a rock.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:23:45 +0100

I smell troll. I mean, the guy who wasn't sure if American soldiers fought in France during WWII could be brushed off by assuming he is extremely ignorant of history. (I also wonder if he notices all the news and tv programming changes for June 6 every year, but I'll just assume he limits his TV viewing to cartoons and Nick Jr.) But this? That just defies common sense. Either that or he is so racist he doesn't even know what he is saying could be considered racist.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:23:14 +0100

Pretty sure it's just a forum troll. Also seems to have already been banned..

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:36:53 +0100

everytime I see the stupidest question ever, i shiver, knowing it will be topped within the hour.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:25:32 +0100

But mostly it's too utterly stupid to be considered real. It has to be some kind of bait.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 04:51:43 +0100

Home brewing seems to be the thing to do. I just read your post and then saw this tweet by Wil Wheaton. "wilw Wil Wheaton I just racked my #homebrew @StoneBrewingCo Pale Ale to a carboy to clear. Not only did I hit OG on the nose, I nailed FG, too! #LIKEABOSS" Whatever he's saying there must mean something to you guys. Anyways, kudos on being yourself and enjoying it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:19:20 +0100

This. Exactly. There's nothing wrong with being selfish. There's nothing wrong with putting off some stuff until December. But you have to acknowledge that what you are doing is selfish and there are consequences for it. Taking a personal day off work to write - fine. I intend to do that next week, too. I've got it all scheduled at work, coverage is good. Writing at work so much that you miss job deadlines - not fine. You're getting paid to do your job, not write, and they are not going to care that you made your 1667 goal at performance eval time. Writing while your daughter is having dance practice? Why not! Writing while your daughter is having a dance recital - not so good. Kid's going to remember that you chose a novel over her. This year, I hired someone to take care of the leaves. I look out to my beautiful, huge back yard and I see leaves everywhere and I am completely not bothered by it. Last year I would have been out there raking and mulching just to stay ahead of the mammoth problem, this year I'm writing, satisfied that the landscaper and his crew comes next week. I'm selfish. I admit it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:23:58 +0100

I thought an OG was an Original Gangsta, therefore you wouldn't want to hit one on the nose. I guess, actually, you'd want to BE the boss, then maybe you could get away with it. But, just being a LIKE a boss? Ill-advised.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 05:47:44 +0100

ITT: Punching Snoop Dog in the face.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:05:44 +0100

You're still in really good shape. It's just day 14 and you're almost at the halfway point. I have used the last couple of Sundays to get a bit ahead. Not too far ahead, though since my upper writing limit has been about 5k/day (less this nano.. closer to 3k). It's likely I'm slogging through more A to B pieces of my story now, rather than writing large expanses of exciting plot points, big reveals or just an exciting piece of writing. Creative writing is work.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:30:09 +0100

[quote=chinalizard] Ok, I have a complaint. I'm getting tired of people picking my comments apart, and getting all offended over some obscure thing I said that wasn't even the main point of what I was talking about. In the "Want to reach 50k? Ignore the current pep talk!" thread, a woman was offended because I didn't list every conceivable reason why someone would write a NaNovel, other than to get published! And this isn't the first time someone's snapped at me out of left field! Is it just the way I put things? Or are people just getting snippity now that it's the half-way mark? D:< [/quote] You're talking about a thread started by folks who bucked the advice, "Don't write things you find boring!" because "All those little boring things add word count!" Meanwhile the point - that focusing on scenes and events that gets you excited keeps you motivated and makes you less likely to get blocked up on what brand of tea the detective should drink or what have you - went whoosing over their heads at best speed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:26:06 +0100

I think I am going to just stick to the grown up corner. I don't have the patience to for that sort of thing. Also, here, I'm unlikely to have to sit through someone go through infinite rounds of hard-sci vs steampunk vs space opera vs spec fic vs angry fanboys with sticks, etc.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 10:47:33 +0100

God forbid you want to write a novel for any other reason than to get published. Unfortunately, none of them count.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 21:00:02 +0100

Heh. Good points, and apparently so. Problem is, the complaint was enough to have the pep talk removed. :( The girl who fussed at me didn't even mention being boring or wordcounts; she was irritated by something I didn't even indicate, as far as I'm aware. I think some folks are just taking themselves (and their own works) entirely too seriously.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:36:24 +0100

"Your steampunk story isn't historically accurate."

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:49:09 +0100

That made me laugh OL, a lot. Wait—a pep talk got removed? Was it the only one I really liked so far? (Although, the new one is okay; it's at least very full of sensibleness.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mermaidsong — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 01:01:48 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] "Your steampunk story isn't historically accurate." [/quote] People get really hung up on details and forget that the majority of us are writing fiction based on...well fiction. Amusing quote nonetheless:) Isn't the whole idea of this to write what you want at whatever pace you want and do whatever the hell you want with it after (including doing nothing at all)?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:23:39 +0100

Before Thanksgiving? I saw Christmas stuff up IN SEPTEMBER. I was wearing shorts at the time. It was fundamentally unsettling. These days I'm downright anti-Christmas, and I blame the early displays and the non-stop after-Thanksgiving music.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:02:07 +0100

I'm an August birthday. I've been telling myself for a few years now that if I start seeing Christmas stuff on display before my birthday, I'm going to become a hermit. It's only a matter of time.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:44:37 +0100

I was just contemplating killing one of my neighbors for putting up their christmas junk more than a week before Thanksgiving. They just took down Hallowe'en junk. One effing holiday per month, people. That's all you're allowed or I'll throw dead squirrels on your porch.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:54:42 +0100

Same here. Can't wait until Shopmas is over.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:38:13 +0100

I love Annual Secular Gift and Tree Day, store displays and music be damned, but I'm with you on the earliness getting a bit ridiculous. Nobody wants to put up decorations on their house in September, and if you did they'd be all grody and dilapitated by December anyway. Most of all, though, it annoys me because I love Halloween, too, and it's getting short-changed by the rush to shove all the black and orange out to make way for red and green. The Walmart by my house put up a display of fake christmas trees The Same Day that they started putting out Halloween stuff. I like both, but y'know, sometimes I don't want my peanut butter in my chocolate, you know? I just want some peanut butter now and I'll enjoy the chocolate later.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:25:34 +0100

Hear hear!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 19:08:30 +0100

^ Heartily agreed. My poor hubby took a seasonal job at Wally World to boost the $$ and he had the ?misfortune? to get stuck in the garden center. Ask him about the music and the decorations and what happened to Halloween/Thanksgiving/Fall... his eye starts to twitch! He actually enjoys working there though, the freak...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

WynnDFae — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:20:54 +0100

They need to learn that if one cannot write for the pleasure of writing or pleasing oneself, then one ought not be writing a'tall. /monocle

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:50:48 +0100

If we did everything to please our friends, then we would never get anything done. A true friend can tell you that they don't like your stuff, but they should encourage you to finish.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 17:31:26 +0100

[quote=Incorporal] "I quit because my friends don't like my novel." Ser..no, seriously...? Dost mine eyes deceive me? We all have to start somewhere, but I can't take the amateurs any more, Lord love them. [/quote] Er... wut? No, really, what? Hell, I'd say at least 3/4 of what I've written over all my years has been written because I wanted to read it & no one else was writing what I wanted to read. It's GREAT when I get good feedback and/or other folks like it (hell, one of the biggest compliments I ever got was someone telling me how much they liked something I had written (a rather creepy story with the protagonist having sex with the evil aliens...) and they were a little concerned what it said about them. I'd been so pleased I managed to hit both the 'hot' and the 'ew!' factor so well) but really, if YOU don't like what you're writing, it's not going to go well... I'm not really sure I even know HOW to write for others...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

WynnDFae — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 22:15:30 +0100

Precisely.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:33:07 +0100

[quote=annabelle2024] If we did everything to please our friends, then we would never get anything done. A true friend can tell you that they don't like your stuff, but they should encourage you to finish. [/quote] Bingo. You have it exactly!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Tephra — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:57:15 +0100

Adding zombies and then blowing them up worked for me in '07....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:18:20 +0100

Well, you know, it IS a sprint, not a marathon. And the picture boxes and rock music do destroy the attention span.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:37:48 +0100

I've never done one of these, but I suppose it could be a way to get through a rough spot in your novel to get to something you feel more comfortable with. I prefer 2 horus of uninterrupted focus on writing over a 10 minute word sprint. I'd get reasonable quantity and quality, and possibly something that would survive a rewrite.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:01:37 +0100

They are actually kind of fun. I did my first word war/word sprint last night. It was the kick in the butt that I needed to catch up with my word count. I find that it made me stay focused for 10-15 min. at a time. I was getting anywhere from 250-450 words a sprint. After four sprints I had my word count plus some. It's not for everybody. But if you do need a little motivation through a part in you story, I would suggest it. Or to catch up on word count. What's good about it, you cover up the chatroom with your word processor that way nobody distracts you during the sprint.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:42:03 +0100

I'd set the minimum at 15 minutes myself, but the concept is sound. Let's say you're just unmotivated to write that night or you're stumpted where to go to next. Set the timer for X minutes and tell yourself that the only thing you're going to do in those minutes is write. Then off you go, pounding the keyboard until the buzzer goes off. If you're doing it with others, you then compare totals. Since it is competitive, you have the incentive not to blow it off and just do it. Then at the end of the sprint, you might have broken through that motivation problem or found a new direction for your novel. Or you wrote crap. I've gotten both results! Overall, I find word sprints to be more helpfull then detrimental. However, the problem is that if you do them all the time they lose their ability to motivate.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:10:50 +0100

Google-fu makes me smile. Try using Google, Grasshopper. Visualize the search box. The image search is only in your mind.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:38:38 +0100

Or, you know, close the chat room and the web browser and just write for an hour. If you don't have anything to write, I'm not sure how competing for word count is going to help. If you do have something to write then I don't see why it's necessary. But to each their own.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:52:44 +0100

I guess it may just be me that's weird, then. My problem with hitting any given (reasonable) word count goal is one of uncertainty as to what should be written next, or how best to construct the scene, rather than lack of motivation or difficulty actually putting words to page. Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of times when I don't feel motivated to write. But once I get started, provided I know what I'm going to be writing about, what's going to stop me? I guess I just don't understand why, after 10 or 15 or 30 minutes of writing you'd need or want to stop. Unless you've reached the end of the material you have in your head and nothing fresh is coming, in which case I don't see how starting up a stopwatch is going to in any way improve the situation. Usually the issue for me is trying to get all of the story in my head out onto the page before I either a) run out of time to write or b) forget what I was going to say. The only time I've actually written until I just didn't have the gumption to do it anymore was my 10k Saturday, and after six or seven hours on the couch I felt like I'd done enough to have earned my fingers, eyes, and ass a break. I suppose I can understand the competition aspect, though I'm not competitive enough myself to want to do it for that reason.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:40:55 +0100

You also don't actually *have* to stop, if get past a block and you're on a roll. It's not like the NaNo Sprint police are gonna knock on your door.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 19:45:04 +0100

Also I like the 30 minute ones. I *know* I can get 1000 words down when I do them. But I do need to stop, because my wrists start to hurt. I'll do 30 minute sprints, then get up, stretch my arms, wrists and hands, pop my shoulders, take a drink, etc. Unclench my jaw, cause I find that when in "the zone," I clench and injure the inside of my cheeks. It's takes all kinds. Allllll kinds of weirdos.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 21:36:22 +0100

"Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of times when I don't feel motivated to write. But once I get started...." That's exactly it: getting started. Sometimes I just look at the computer and say in my most whiny voice "I don't wanna!" But then I tell myself if I just write for 15 minutes, I can stop if I want. 15 minutes is nothing! To quote the overly-perky and definitely not cynical Flylady, "You can do anything for 15 minutes!" Then I set the timer and write for 15 minutes. Most of the time, at the end of 15 minutes I'm on a roll and keep going. Or I stretch, take a little break, and get right back to it because I found my motivation. One time this NaNoWriMo it didn't work for me, and at the end of 15 minutes I still didn't wanna. So I didn't. That was a 400 word count day. Some days are just going to be that way. But it is better than a zero word count day, which is what I would have had if I hadn't done a word sprint. You don't have to do word sprints if they don't work for you. I'm going to try Snappy's writtenkitten next time. I've got a real weakness for all things cute and fuzzy - as you can see from my spooning kittens avatar. (I fostered those two little buggers, and that was the picture that found them their new home.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:20:22 +0100

I have many, many words in my head, but need to write them in chunks, otherwise they just come out sloppy. So either I keep going or I don't, but in those four hour spans, I give myself goals so that when I need to stretch the mildly arthritic bits and pieces, I won't stress myself about it. I have no need to write tons of words; just fifty thousand ones I will feel okay about at the end of the month. Four hours a day is about what I can give to it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:21:33 +0100

I'd forgotten how pleasantly ranty you can be, Shem. I should wander off toward where they talk about religion and such, see if I've missed anything...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:19:33 +0100

Woo! FlyLady! I wouldn't have found NaNo if it wasn't for her. Unfortunately Nano has caused me to fall out of my routines completely. My sink is in desperate need of a shinin'. But I digress...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:31:57 +0100

I've been very good this year! I haven't been in any debates with teenaged fundamentalists! Why, I haven't even mentioned Richard Dawkins. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 01:46:41 +0100

Should that happen, please point me to those threads.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 06:01:53 +0100

Too bad! But I'm better off, I suppose, not freaking out over regression and the New 21st Century Puritan, driving me into The Cure albums and wailing about What the Future Was.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 04:19:46 +0100

Me as well.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 04:20:33 +0100

Welcome, welcome. Have a drink and stay a while.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:33:22 +0100

Me three.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:10:09 +0100

A little welcoming present: http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms/detail.php?template=portal_en

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:59:19 +0100

[quote=TheGildedFox] I'm a few years shy of 30, but can I join the cynics club?[/quote] NO! Wait, we're a club? [quote=TheGildedFox] ...I'll bring beer. [/quote] Okay, but it better not be PBR.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 07:38:24 +0100

That site has been a God-send throughout this process.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:01:57 +0100

Of course not. No self respecting adult would drink PBR. But then again, I'm a Guinness drinker myself, so I can't really talk. I didn't have the balls to post this anywhere else, but does anyone else think that all of the Nano Videos are really...really crap. I watched today's "Vintage" video and thought, "So...when did they stop caring?" I feel like the videos (along with the staff written pep talks) contribute to the feel "Lets just spew out 50,000 words of crap for no other reason than to waste time" feel of the organization. At first, I couldn't understand why so many professional writers scoffed at Nanowrimo, but its gradually become more and more clear to me. As I struggle to swim through the endless ocean of fanfic/steampunk/fantasy/vampire posts, its made me question numerous times whether I made the right choice to do nano for my first novel. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of Nano. As an embittered, cynical freelance writer that has never had the motivation or discipline to sit down and write a full novel before, I definitely appreciate its purpose of total creative focus for a month. But I can't really embrace the culture of social write-ins and stickers, sticking "ninjas" in your plot out of boredom, not editing or reading your writing, and seemingly not caring at all about quality during the entire month. In reality, 1667 words a day is NOT that much. 50,000 in a month isn't really all that much for a writer. So the idea of throwing out all quality control in hopes of catching some sort magic muse elixir just seems unwarranted to me. All this to say, I feel like I can relate to this thread, regardless of my age. That, and I'm pretty sure that 5+ years of marriage, soul-sucking retail jobs and struggling to make it as a freelance writer/musician has aged me just enough to push me over the 30 year minimum.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Diane Keys — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:11:50 +0100

Welcome. I am a self-professed grammar nazi, so I understand your issues with editing and reading as you go. My rough draft novel will actually make a bit of sense. To me, all the rah-rah, write, write, write, no backspace, no punctuation, no anything other than randomly hitting buttons on the keyboard doesn't make any sense. If I want to be able to understand what I was attempting to accomplish when I go back after the rough draft is over, sentences need to make sense, punctuation needs to be on point, and spelling needs to have a vague reference to the words you were attempting to write.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:55:28 +0100

Well, 1667 words a day IS a lot for me. After my full-time job and commute (and I discovered the hard way I cannot muster the creative process during either event), getting some dinner, doing some very basic cleaning, and then FINALLY sitting down to write, getting 1667 words is difficult. 1000 words is my workday goal. We make up the rest on the weekend. We (my husband and I are co-writing) are using NaNoWriMo as a way to kick-off a project we've wanted to do for a while. Neither of us have ever written a novel before, though we've both been writing in some form for most of our lives. So, yeah, 50k is a lot. Especially in a month. But that doesn't mean I have to sacrifice quality. I'm not editing, except to clean up spelling/grammar errors as I go, but I'm not throwing ninjas into my story either. We're trying to get these ideas *out*, and I'll worry about clean-up and perfection later. Since we are co-writing, we've ended up with some overlaps that need to be addressed. For instance, a character has died in two different ways. We've kept both scenes rather than attempt to smooth it out now. It also doesn't mean I have to go all cheerleader to get a word count. We're writing because we want to, because we think this story needs to be told. A little encouragement is motivating, some social aspects of NaNo are fun for shaking up things, but mostly I want to write and so I am writing. My husband, who doesn't post here, is completely anti-social in his writing. He takes a chair and a drink to the nearby woods and writes in total solitude.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:32:54 +0100

Exactly. I would like someday to be able to turn this into a readable, publishable manuscript. The more incomprehensible it is now, the more likely it will sit untouched on my hard drive for five years because I'm frightened to death of editing it. If I can keep it reasonably clean as I go, then I'm more likely to go back and perfect it later. I also find that every time I start a new writing session, I have to go back and read the last few pages that I wrote. If I don't, the book just doesn't flow right and it takes me too long to get back into the voice of my narrator. The idea that you're not allowed to go back and read your writing must have come from someone that really struggled to get 1,667 words a day. I really don't think that it contributes anything useful to the process unless you are spending more time editing than writing, in which case, I would suggest to try and curb the inner editor a bit. But I don't see any benefit to restricting it 100%. But that's just me. I know the process is probably a bit different for everyone.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:03:54 +0100

Most of us are not writers by trade. We sit down after work or after a long day of patrol or after herding twelve children and spend most of our time writing the story directly from whatever muse inspires us. There's not much reading of previous material for continuity, only in situ editing and no proofing at the end of the day. A couple of hours may be all we have. Granted some are better at editing as we go along, but there are still plenty of mistakes that make a first nano draft embarrassing to read through. Sometimes the story is a measured layout of events and sometimes it's a rush to get out everything that's contained in your mind before it's gone. I'm sure if we had an eight hour workday, the prose that sits on the page would be finely oiled and well paced. That is to say that writing is work and time will not make us instantly better - only deliberate practice and application. I don't know what the excuse is for the unemployed or under 30 somethings not yet out of the education pipeline. It's likely it's the same thing that works against all aspiring writers: fear, laziness, or both. On a personal level, I think my writing ethic has improved with each nano. First nano: I worked diligently to reach my word count (usually hitting close to 2k, but with a day or two with no writing). It was reasonably well planned and organized. Second nano: It was organized but not well planned. I had two weeks of no writing to make up. It ended up being a 30,000k fit of writing to hit the 50k mark in four days. It was not my best writing, but there was some interesting and well written portions. Third nano: This was similar to the first - more organized and well planned. My word count improved to over 2k per day on average, hitting about 57k at the deadline. This is my fourth nano,and my daily wordcount has improved again to approximately 2.6k. It's well planned and it's coming along nicely. I hoped to write 75k of useable material, expecting to cut down, rewrite, and fold it into the complete manuscript for full first draft. That last part is what excites me about this nano: having my first novel in first draft form by the end of the year.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:53:50 +0100

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with not editing as you go along, as I said, everyone has different methods that work for them. My point was that this anti-editing, pro-gibberish culture of NaNo is one of the main reasons that there ISN'T more career writers doing NaNo. In my experience, a lot of published writers seem to look at it as a childish exercise that does more harm for the profession than good. I don't see it that way, but I can see why others might.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:12:15 +0100

Welcome, Fox. I am a freelance writer by trade also, and I completely understand where you're coming from in regards to a 1667 daily word count. If I don't edit, I can crank off that many words in about 45 minutes. If I do, obviously, it takes a bit longer. Your comment about re-reading struck me as well. I have to read, at a minimum, the last few paragraphs in order for the voice to compound and stay consistent. At any rate, it's nice to see another freelancer here.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:23:33 +0100

Sometimes I think nano IS a childish exercise... for some people. Especially the, well, the children. They want a creative endeavor, they want a passion to give their energy to, they want to engage in the rah rahs. But in my opinion, nanowrimo is more like a tool to help you get where you want to go. If you want to write a publishable novel, then you don't really want to engage in all the shenanigans or you will make your job harder on the other end of nano. The truth is, none of us is going to "write a novel in 30days." We might write a first draft in 30 days, but the novel as a whole takes so much more time. Every time my nano has been successful, I've actually started working on the idea six months in advance. Six months of world, character, plot development, outlining, thinking, ruminating and planning. And then afterwards, even if I DO reach the end of my story in November, which I usually don't, there are more months of revision to come. Years sometimes. I am almost done with a publishable draft of my 2009 nano, two years later. I like the reminder not to be concerned with writing a "good" novel. It allows me to repeat information I know I want to add to the novel, even when I'm not sure how to incorporate it. It allows me to explore reactions of characters, even if I don't ultimately use those reactions in the final drafts. It allows me to explore alternate scenes. It allows me to babble on and add detail, that I might not use in the end but still will inform the whole of the novel. It allows me not obsess over finding the absolute "right" word which would break my writing flow and stop the progress of the novel. Because nano is for getting the ideas out, not getting them perfect. It's the urges for perfection that stop me from going all the way with my novels, because I feel like they aren't good enough. I won't be adding ninjas because that doesn't serve my needs, but there are so many other things that do that I can just ignore the ninjas and the silly kids and even what "serious" writers think of nano. I know what it is for me. I know what I need to do to write a publishable novel (or at least, I think I do) and I'm going to do that. And avoid most of the forums here. What happened to the customize forums option, anyway. In previous years I just go rid of the distracting ones and kept what helped me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:05:57 +0100

I'm just giving you the other side of it, as someone who's not paid to write professionally. I edit as i write, mostly to fix quick grammar and spelling problems, but on rereads the grammar doesn't even fit sometimes, but the idea is there. I do find you get lost in trying to find the write word and what ends up being lost is the next thread of the story. I don't think nano does more harm than good. Writers write and writers want to write to be paid (in the end). More people trying to write makes the pool bigger, but not necessarily shallower. I'm sure there are some amazing writers here that are just trying it out and giving themselves the time to create great writing. Some people do publish. My best friend did nanowrimo with me the first year. He wrote a book on time management and it's just now published. He hasn't done nano since, but he needed that clarion call and my competitive kick to help him get it done. Now it's my turn to finish mine. That said, wow there are a lot of retards in here (nano fora I mean). Crowdsourcing is not the best way to go about a novel unless you're maybe writing a which-way book (which I liked as a kid).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:07:47 +0100

Ha! Me too! And the carpal tunnel that I was afraid of hasn't even set in yet. I think POC is a depository for freelance writers....oh we are a grumpy bunch, aren't we? I have found that my career has made me take the words I put into my word count bar much more seriously. Also, freelancers have to do a lot of writing for other people, we get a lot of parameters, rules, concerns about audience, tone and what not. So when we write for ourselves and some 20 year old tells us to throw our MC into a raspberry bush, our natural response is , "No, throw yourself into a raspberry bush, I'm writing for myself!"

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:41:26 +0100

I'm not using it for anything "worthwhile"... well, that's more worthwhile than getting me to get off my butt and write without procrastinating. I'm not a published novellist, and I don't think I want to be... and having in the last couple of years I've come to the conclusion that I don't really *want* to be part of the arty-farty writer "in" crowd because a lot of them are self-important wankers. All that said, my NaNowriting is just as much a hobby for a bit of fun and a challenge as any other: as doing jigsaw puzzles, as playing videogames, as working on a cosplay and getting some fine detail right. Usually I have no problem being wordy, but a few years ago a "friend" kind of screwed with my head and I've had some major issues writing... and I always enjoyed writing, and my attitude's been "screw letting one arsehole take that away." So to me, NaNo isn't necessarily about doing something I can edit later, it's about making myself write whether I'm feeling it or not (because I hardly ever AM feeling it lately) and just getting out there and doing it. Is it about passion and childishness and being creative? Probably. But I don't need squee-fests and ninjas and awkward social misadventures with screamy loud people trying to outwit one another or being outlandish so everyone indulges them with their daily narcissistic supply. I can't take this seriously: I'm trying to whip up fanfiction of all things. But I used to enjoy the writing process, I'd like to get that back.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:50:48 +0100

I concur wholeheartedly. I've worked hard to ensure that the things I put on the page are at least mildly coherent. I may trail off on tangents or write a mixture of prose, stream of consciousness, and lyrical jazz, but when it's all said and done the bones of the story are there. The story makes sense. It may be coarse and I may have recycled phrases or minor plot holes, or paragraphs that don't fit into the context, sure, but the manuscript isn't a turd. Writing without regard to substance is as you said "Just typing." It won't help you get better at the craft, it will help you get better at typing. As a quick aside, I had a girl on my buddy list finish 50k the first week, the second, her word count was almost 90k. There is no way, unless you're talented beyond belief, (Yeah,sure. And you're NOT on the NYT Bestseller list) that you are going to crank out anything of substance in those 90k during a 14 day sprint. Louis L'amour's long winded ass couldn't do it. It's utter bullshit. It's not even stream of consciousness at that point, it's just babbling. Needless to say, I promptly removed this person from my buddy list. I'd rather not be associated with that type of "writer."

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:07:16 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] A also agree that the write-don't-think attitude is of no use to me. I'm sort of methodical in my writing, and I'd rather produce a 75K-word draft that I can work on later than a 100K-word draft that's a garbled fucking mess. I look at the wordcount as a way to gauge my progress, but I realize that for a lot of people NaNo is an OCD joyride that's all about nothing but wordcount. Take a peek in the Overachievers thread and count how many times they mention plot or characters. You're not going to need too many rows on the abacus for this exercise, believe me. My wife says that's not writing, that's typing. Kids can hammer out verbiage and wrap it up before they get bored with it and it ends up seeming like work. [/quote] Tinsel is on sale. If you throw some at them, they'll go for the shiny stuff and forget all about nano.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:25:34 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I had a girl on my buddy list finish 50k the first week, the second, her word count was almost 90k. There is no way, unless you're talented beyond belief, (Yeah,sure. And you're NOT on the NYT Bestseller list) that you are going to crank out anything of substance in those 90k during a 14 day sprint. Louis L'amour's long winded ass couldn't do it. It's utter bullshit. It's not even stream of consciousness at that point, it's just babbling. Needless to say, I promptly removed this person from my buddy list. I'd rather not be associated with that type of "writer." [/quote] That's just priceless. I had an "overachiever" chide me for similar skepticism: she claimed to have written 70K words in 5 days, and I said I didn't think anything written at that rate could be even remotely readable. She offered to send me her mistreatise, but I declined. I mean, I have cats in the house, and I don't trust them around stuff like that. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:42:21 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] [quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] That's just priceless. I had an "overachiever" chide me for similar skepticism: she claimed to have written 70K words in 5 days, and I said I didn't think anything written at that rate could be even remotely readable. She offered to send me her mistreatise, but I declined. I mean, I have cats in the house, and I don't trust them around stuff like that. -Shem [/quote] Your newsletter. I would like to subscribe to it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:34:40 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] [quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I had a girl on my buddy list finish 50k the first week, the second, her word count was almost 90k. There is no way, unless you're talented beyond belief, (Yeah,sure. And you're NOT on the NYT Bestseller list) that you are going to crank out anything of substance in those 90k during a 14 day sprint. Louis L'amour's long winded ass couldn't do it. It's utter bullshit. It's not even stream of consciousness at that point, it's just babbling. Needless to say, I promptly removed this person from my buddy list. I'd rather not be associated with that type of "writer." [/quote] That's just priceless. I had an "overachiever" chide me for similar skepticism: she claimed to have written 70K words in 5 days, and I said I didn't think anything written at that rate could be even remotely readable. She offered to send me her mistreatise, but I declined. I mean, I have cats in the house, and I don't trust them around stuff like that. -Shem [/quote] This. It's the best thing I've read all day...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:16:47 +0100

Like so many things in life, I don't think there's anything inherently the matter with fan-fiction. The problem is the people that write it. I mean, your opinions on franchise-tie-in-novels aside, every long-running multi-author narrative is, essentially, fan fiction. James Bond movies, the post-Frank Herbert Dune novels, every single comic that's been running continuously for more than 30 years or so. The problem with the form isn't so much that writing stories with someone else doing the heavy lifting of world building and character creation is abhorent in and of itself, it's that the folks doing it are, primarily and most vocally, frothing idiots. And since someone else Is doing the heavy lifting, writing a piece of fan-fiction has an even lower bar to entry than writing your own, 'original' piece of knock-off dreck about vampires fighting ninjas on steam-powered airships, making it even easier for the frothing idiots to flood the internet with their excretia. I can imagine a world in which a person wrote, say, a fan-novel set after the final Harry Potter novel, or a fan-story involving the cast of the Supernatural TV show and that novel or story actually did something interesting, or at least amusing, and was a work of fiction I'd be interested in reading. I mean, I enjoy Harry Potter and Supernatural, and there are already multiple authors writing the scripts for the latter. Logically there is nothing preventing someone else from doing as good a job with the characters as their original authors and providing me with an amusing yarn for a little light escapism reading. It's not Impossible. But I'm never, ever, but-never going to set a toe across the line into the fandom communities that are producing such works in the real world. It would be more sanity damaging than all the horrors of Lovecraft mushed together into one tentacular ball of squamous rugosity, I'm afraid.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:22:11 +0100

I have not written fan fiction myself. I have created unique characters that live in a world created by others (little but of the Wheel of Time series back in the day, lot of GMing Conan the RPG, etc.). None have ever been written down. I'm all for loving the characters of a show enough to want to write your own 'episode' or a novelization of the characters without breaking canon too much. There's a market for that (and not a very good one... I can't stomach any of those types of books. They are usually written poorly). I'm all for making your own characters that live in a world built by others. That's not too far away from playing a video game. Other than that, I don't have any interest in fan-fiction, nor would I read your story about you being in someone else's world and how much cooler you are than the characters that were in the story. Go off and die a lonely death.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:20:19 +0100

Hating fan fiction would require that I actually READ fan fiction, and that isn't going to happen any time soon. I don't hate fan fiction. I am just utterly baffled by it. I don't get it. It makes my brain break. The more I think about it, the more distressed I become.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:06:54 +0100

What I've never understood about fanfic is--why would you spend time writing something when so much of the fun part is already done? To me one of the most entertaining and rewarding parts of crafting a story is developing the characters, deciding on a situation and some problems, imagining how they'd react, imagining a little world that no-one but you yet knows anything about. if I understand fanfic correctly, and I should state that I've never read any, it seems that all or most of this is done already. Writers use already developed characters, worlds, and situations and... well I don't know what they do with it. But really, why would I spend my time writing about someone ELSE's characters? (sorry to shout, haven't yet figured out italics on this board)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:43:53 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] God, I hate fanfiction. I hate it so much. [/quote] Easy solution: don't read it. [quote=CarrieClothwright] What I've never understood about fanfic is--why would you spend time writing something when so much of the fun part is already done? To me one of the most entertaining and rewarding parts of crafting a story is developing the characters, deciding on a situation and some problems, imagining how they'd react, imagining a little world that no-one but you yet knows anything about. if I understand fanfic correctly, and I should state that I've never read any, it seems that all or most of this is done already. Writers use already developed characters, worlds, and situations and... well I don't know what they do with it. But really, why would I spend my time writing about someone ELSE's characters? (sorry to shout, haven't yet figured out italics on this board) [/quote] While it's true that creating characters and worldbuilding is fun, it can also be fun to take characters that you know and love and put them in different situations than the ones you see on-screen or in other forms of published media. Many times, fanfiction is an exercise in 'what if?' or a way to "fix" something that you don't agree with in the original version. Often, in TV, character development is sacrificed for action -- it's always the character parts that end up on the cutting room floor first when a show runs long and has to be trimmed for time. Some fanfic fills in those holes, playing the role of a 'deleted scenes' section of DVD extras (which there is obviously a market for, or DVDs wouldn't HAVE 'deleted scenes' sections.) Sometimes a writer's original vision of a TV show is heavily altered by a studio, and fanfic springs from exploring what the show 'could have been.' Certainly, a vast majority of it is poorly written crap, but some of it is outstanding and far better than some professional writing I've seen published. Also, there is professionally written "fanfiction" all over the place -- how many books are based on mythology or folklore or fairy tales? Those are "already developed characters, worlds, and situations" but the authors are playing with them in new or different ways.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:24:58 +0100

I write tiny stories in which I have brief encounters with fictional characters, occasionally a famous person. I amuse myself. And they're kinda dry and subtle, probably you can't always tell who they're about...my favorite one was about encountering Mulder behind the blue door of the video store, but it's lost in the ether somewhere, I think.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 18:09:14 +0100

Oh, and by "writing for myself", I of course mean that I'm not writing for a boss, not that we don't plan to publish. Freelancers don't write without at least attempting to get paid!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:54:17 +0100

oh, if only it were easy. but knowing how much of it exists hurts like a stubbed toe.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:52:05 +0100

[quote=Penemuel] While it's true that creating characters and worldbuilding is fun, it can also be fun to take characters that you know and love and put them in different situations than the ones you see on-screen or in other forms of published media. Many times, fanfiction is an exercise in 'what if?' or a way to "fix" something that you don't agree with in the original version. Often, in TV, character development is sacrificed for action -- it's always the character parts that end up on the cutting room floor first when a show runs long and has to be trimmed for time. Some fanfic fills in those holes, playing the role of a 'deleted scenes' section of DVD extras (which there is obviously a market for, or DVDs wouldn't HAVE 'deleted scenes' sections.) Sometimes a writer's original vision of a TV show is heavily altered by a studio, and fanfic springs from exploring what the show 'could have been.' Certainly, a vast majority of it is poorly written crap, but some of it is outstanding and far better than some professional writing I've seen published. Also, there is professionally written "fanfiction" all over the place -- how many books are based on mythology or folklore or fairy tales? Those are "already developed characters, worlds, and situations" but the authors are playing with them in new or different ways. [/quote] Agreed, and thankyou. To be perfectly honest, fanfic is actually more of a challenge for me PRECISELY BECAUSE I'm working within someone else's constraints. I know writers who seem to assume that they can do away with canon, but I don't work like that: I'd rather just go original if I can't be bothered doing the research and keeping the characters in character. Also, I'm trying to imagine how people would think and react to things I haven't written myself, and therefore may not have given much consideration to-- it's actually not that easy. I kind of resent the idea that fanfiction sucks and that everyone who writes it is an idiot: I could say the same of other genres (ye gawds, I hate fantasy and sci-fi is starting to do my head in, and don't even get me started on everyone's latest trend, Steampunk...) but that would be unfair and dismissing the writers who do put some effort in and which manage to not fall into cliches and the usual tripe I've come to associate with such genres. Furthermore, there are people out there who think that everyone doing NaNoWriMo, for whatever reason, is an idiot, and I've come across enough people in this forum who seem to not fall into that category. :) I can see how people don't get it, but to generalise like that is unfair. I've read better written, and better edited fanfiction that manages to explain canon better than canon itself does (videogames often leave gaping great plotholes in between missions or the action-y bits, so it's lovely when someone tries to explain them) and which makes plenty of published material look like something someone... had whipped up in 30 days.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:55:03 +0100

[quote=zenken] Other than that, I don't have any interest in fan-fiction, nor would I read your story about you being in someone else's world and how much cooler you are than the characters that were in the story. Go off and die a lonely death. [/quote] Yeah, well Mary Sues and Marty Stus are a commonly despised phenomena amongst fanfic writers. Generally OCs raise my heckles unless they're there for a purpose which canon hasn't already filled, and if you want to write about original characters who take centre stage... why not just write your own original stuff?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:09:10 +0100

Oh jeez! Oh and let's not start bringing up what people have on shelves in basements. Things could get real creepy, real fast.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:16:48 +0100

Oh, wow. Did you read his bio/excerpt? Someone's ego definitely exceeds his talent. I couldn't get through 2 sentences without my brain packing up and leaving the room. Why would anyone want to read 1m words of that drivel? Is that too harsh???

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:37:54 +0100

I think I need to take a lesson on mathematics from that cat. Sounds to me like he's the second coming of Euclid. Fucking kids and their need for social approval.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:41:36 +0100

See, now I'm just curious.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

A D Puchalski — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:35:24 +0100

Wow. That's almost enough for me to close down my profile and go home. I think that guy actually made me ashamed to be part of the same activity. (That was harsh, I know, but I have a mean nature to start with).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:12:57 +0100

The real question is: has she actually written 550k of complete tripe, or is she just incrementing his wordcount? I've seen a few kids around the threads with several-hundred-k counts whose stats indicate a spike of 300k+ in one day, making it fairly obvious, but with this one it's relatively believable that she just mashes buttons for several hours a day.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:33:50 +0100

Oh, no kidding. Who actually writes 50-75k words ON THE FIRST DAY??? Where's my bullshit flag? I need to hit someone with it. You are a sad, sad person if you are so insecure that you have to cheat at NaNoWriMo...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:07:11 +0100

Hey not me! Didn't you see Zodiac? No one has a basement in San Francisco. Oh shite! Why did I bring up Zodiac? I was trying to make fun of others and ended up implicating myself. Classic.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:03:57 +0100

Just a hunch, but I'm thinking there might be some mental health issues there in old Moscow, Idaho. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:18:55 +0100

Then she might not have been the right person to ask, but I am now curious as to the motivation of people who write or "write" 300k in November. I wasn't curious before, just put off.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:53:06 +0100

After reading her blog, I can assure you that there are. Still, I call bullshit.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:57:58 +0100

What wonder is, what kind of story arc is behind those very long writings? I mean, is it just story after story after story without any connections? I doubt that there could be a real beginning, middle and end. Good writers take years if they have that much material.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:02:53 +0100

I've read decent fan fic, usually of the flash fiction or short story type. But if it involves sex, the it is usually very, very bad. To use the classic example: the official, canon characters of Kirk and Spock are straight. If the book has them in a hot tub together getting it on, even if that's just a scene and not the point of the story, then it cannot be decent fan fic because it is not true to the characters. If you're going to use another's work, be true to the character at least! Some things cannot be unread. Generally, I avoid the stuff. But to be fair it isn't all terrible.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:00:41 +0100

You made me look. Yup. Ze's got the OCD. Among other things. You know, this reminds me of a 17 year old I ran across a few years back who was dead set on writing 100k from the POV of a hunted baboon. He was convinced he was a genius. "No dialogue! It'll be a breeze!" I dunno, man.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:02:53 +0100

The Diana Gabaldon of NaNoWriMo, only on speed or something. I guess someone has/gets to be.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:08:08 +0100

Looks like that one in particular just bamphs the MC on a whim. There's novel info. And, an excerpt.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:38:37 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] What wonder is, what kind of story arc is behind those very long writings? I mean, is it just story after story after story without any connections? I doubt that there could be a real beginning, middle and end. Good writers take years if they have that much material. [/quote] You answered your own questions with the last sentence. Four bachelor's degrees at the age of 23.... good one.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:15:30 +0100

Yerp. Hunted baboon, huh? You can sell anything. This calls to mind the old adage about athletes. There are endurance athletes who can run ultra marathons of 100 miles or more, there are sprinters who can run 400 yards really fast, and there are middle distance runners who complete 5k, 10k, and half marathons if they push themselves. I'm a middle distance runner. I prefer to use my talent as opposed to my endurance or speed. I have very little of the three, but talent is where I excel. Perhaps sticking to what you know best is the key. I'll never write (nor read) a million word novel. I would rather scrape out my eyes with an apple corer. I will, however, write a first draft that I can turn into something marketable and potentially publishable. Will I publish it? Maybe, if someone likes it enough and thinks I have the chops. Does it make a difference to me? Nope. Is a literary agent more likely to look at a medium length manuscript than be forced to read a novel that will take weeks to digest? Yup. I don't really know where I was going with that, but I think that a high word count, as Shem said, is just typing. Novelist or stenographer? You make the call.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:13:53 +0100

Yeah, for this specific person. I was more talking generally about all of the people who have several hundred thousand words to their name. I was thinking logistics. I guess they are either rebels, or genius, or lying. I can't imagine getting a meaningful story with that many words done in less than 30 days.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:15:39 +0100

I would wager that you are most likely right. Not that I have anything against scifi, but still... I did see that one of those overachievers had a novel entitled An Assault on Literature. I couldn't help thinking that the title was ironically appropriate...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:01:46 +0100

[quote=vNichols] I would be willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of the overachievers are writing scifi. [/quote] I would disagree with that on the bounds of 1. numerics and 2. science fiction itself. 1. There are 26616 posts on the Fantasy forum, vs. 7040 in Science Fiction, nearly quadruple by this writing. Science Fiction is the 2nd highest by post count (beating third place by 1420), but still far behind Fantasy by genre. 2. You did point out the overachievers are writing scifi. I would disagree that they are not writing scifi. Rather they are writing something akin to fan fiction, manga glass licking or something called scifi just because they have the laziest excuse for a copout: time travel. In short, a shitload of words is no scifi. It just a shitload of words. I think the overachievers belong in the 'Other genre' category, and not even in Fantasy or Satire deserve that truckload of drivel. Disclaimer: I'm writing a mythos based science fiction. It has no time travel but it may encounter near future space shuttles (which is clearly fiction if you look at the future of our space shuttle program).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:35:11 +0100

The Wikipedia tells me that [i]War and Peace[/i] and [i]Les Miserables[/i] are in the 500k range. That's about my limit.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:23:48 +0100

There's gotta be some sort of formula for this. It can be plotted. Like, you know... ((Aspergers Symptoms) + (Number of Asimov books read)) / (Number of Umberto Eco quotes used frequently) * Devotion to the Million Word Hypothese + 10k words cubed = the song that never ends

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:41:38 +0100

Sci-Fi usually isn't home to the massive doorstop, though. For all its faults, the sci-fi genre usually at least has brevity on its side. Fantasy is where you go for long-ass novels. I mean, I love fantasy; most of what I write is fantasy; I firmly believe that all of the people who say Rothfuss needs an editor purely on the basis of page-count can go suck it; but I honestly don't know what it is about elves and wizards that makes people write 600k words at a go.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:13:08 +0100

[quote=vNichols] Er. Million word Hypothesis. You know... "You have to write a million words, before you really get any good." I've seen it attributed to everyone and their grandmas. [/quote] Heh heh. The overachiever I mentioned before quoted that. I think there's some confusion as to whether writing a million words in and of itself makes you get any good. These quantity-over-quality types may be responsible for a inflationary spiral of the hypothesis, resulting in a Bazillion Word Hypothesis by November 2012. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:35:32 +0100

OMG. I HATE THIS FORUM SOFTWARE.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:37:25 +0100

Really? I mean, _War and Peace_ (*War and Peace* (i)War and Peace(/i) War and Peace War and Peace <p style='font-style:italic;'>War and Peace</p>) I believe, but Les Miserables was 500k? Huh.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:49:44 +0100

{i}Hahahaha{i}

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:41:43 +0100

You're cute. I'm about 111% certain I'd have been assigned Asperger's if that had been invented back in my day. Instead, weekly appointments with the school counselor, etc. Anyway. Like, whatthefrickever. You needed NaNo for this?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:06:50 +0100

Fuck the thread. I want a good long screw that resulted in multiple orgasms and then a Reese's Peanut Butter cup.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:20:10 +0100

forget the candy! I just want the first part.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:35:05 +0100

I like to wake up in the morning where I'm at and read this thread. It gets better the farther into nano it gets.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:42:19 +0100

[quote=JennV] I love this thread. I love it like I love Reese's Peanut Butter cups after a good long screw that resulted in multiple orgasms. [/quote] Oddly, I don't ever remember any women asking for this specifically. I'll have to remember to bring peanut butter cups. Just. In. Case.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:52:38 +0100

nope

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:53:25 +0100

Fuck.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 00:54:50 +0100

SEE?!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:15:32 +0100

okay, I figured it out. You have to use "em" in place of I. It's standard HTML.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:08:23 +0100

Infinite Monkey Theorem, though applied to these nanites, has yet to turn out a piece of Shakespeare, though a few have actually published real novels. I would categorize those people as something closer to orangutan or writer. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:37:44 +0100

Wow, and not a one of those worked. Fuck you, Forum.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:43:06 +0100

You get only a snippet of html to use. Who said this on the "previous page?" I have flat instead of nesting view at the moment. "I did see that one of those overachievers had a novel entitled An Assault on Literature. I couldn't help thinking that the title was ironically appropriate..." I love you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:01:50 +0100

_War and Peace?_

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:04:13 +0100

War and Peace?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 01:55:16 +0100

I'm guessing it's the cast of millions. Most of the people I've seen writing 800k "cycles" of high fantasy break it up into volumes, though. The word vomitters that want to write as MUCH as they can as FAST as they can seem to heavily rely on time travel and transporters.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:32:09 +0100

I'm thinking that those who think that Rothfus needs an editor are brilliant. His last novel was a POS. But, yeah, scifi trends to be rather to the point. There's a reason that a lot of scifi is in short story or novella form. A lot of it really, really, isn't mean to be a novel. (And if it is, it's meant to be a short one, not a doorstopper. As you noted, "doorstopper" has fantasy written all over it.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:19:45 +0100

The first time I *ever* encountered the term, someone sent me a link to Backstreet Boys orgy stories. I have fan fic ptsd.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:04:27 +0100

Screw this, I give up.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:08:25 +0100

I would be okay without the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, to be honest. That part's negotiable.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 02:33:52 +0100

I hate peanut butter!!! Nutella is the only answer!!! (I think I used up my exclamation mark allotment for the whole week on this post.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:59:32 +0100

[quote=bibliosylph] I would be okay without the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, to be honest. That part's negotiable. [/quote] even with dark chocolate????

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JennV — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:05:17 +0100

You know I've never had Nutella. I have flirted with it. Picked it up off the shelf, held the jar and thought seriously about it. But I've never made the commitment. I hear enough about the awesomeness that is Nutella that I should buy it and give it a try. I do love most things chocolate.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:53:35 +0100

I just read the suggestions. You guys are the best. That forum drove me to chicklit this year, I swear. Actually, an overabundance of non-contextual peanut butter cups probably did that, but I still have hope for the other side of the story...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:29:39 +0100

Oh dear god. I just started coughing, I did a spittake so hard. That was so wretchedly brutal. Fantastic trolling people. Excellently done. There should be a nano stick badge for trolling. This crew would definitely get that one.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Incorporal — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:32:05 +0100

....and Carter, meanwhile, is thinking "shut UP, bitch!" Sorry. But let's be real, most men don't have the attention span to listen to anyone talking in paragraphs...unless, like, hockey and shit are figured prominently.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:27:02 +0100

If I ever use the phrase "her legs were at an awkward angle", I hope I'm not trying to convey sitting curled up by the fire. My character better have dropped three storys and broken something.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:36:41 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] For the record, I host write-ins, but they involve alcohol and good food. They don't involve dares and stickers and fan fiction (which is illegal under at least two bodies of law). [/quote] Let me guess. 'Good taste' and 'Original Idea' laws? :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 03:23:26 +0100

ITA except that I'm thinking more 7-10 years out of date... I've been switching back and forth between here and ravelry and every time I go back to rav I'm astonished at how slick it is. In a good way.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:39:47 +0100

The worst part of it is that you can get better - and free - forum software from a hundred places around the internet. Hell, they're a not-for-profit organization; instead of (presumably) paying someone to set this up or using up volunteer hours for it they could have just used one of the various bulletin board services. I thought that the new Penny Arcade forum software was shit; then I came here. I mean, no edit button? What is this? A geocities guest book circa 1995?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

JennV — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 04:08:24 +0100

You know if you have too many (since you seem to hate them) I will be happy to take them off your hands. the Peanut Butter cups, I mean. And I zoned out about one quarter of the way into that post because I felt like my eyes were on fire and skipped down to the comments instead where I could laugh maniacally at the suggestions.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

pencilcase — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:04:22 +0100

I've never flirted with Nutella, but she does look at me in a coquettish fashion as I walk past her in the aisle. It makes the peanut-butter awfully jealous.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:24:29 +0100

Oh, I'd trade peanut butter cups for a little bit more of what comes before. This stopped making sense, I think. :-)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:21:15 +0100

No likes, no edits, no html apparently if the earlier part of this thread is anything to go by. And, worst of all, no jumping to new comments. I hate navigating here. And the email notifications? *facepalm* I only want to be notified if someone comments on MY post. Not everyone else's. Grrrrrrrr. (If I keep this up, I might get in the right frame of mind to kill people in my novel tonight. I'm gearing up for a battle.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:42:06 +0100

For some reason, this brings up an image in my mind: Tolkien, Lewis, Barfield and the rest of the Inklings Society are sitting in The Eagle & Child pub discussing archetypal parallels between Homer and Ihe Arthurian legend and in walks a 19 year old student with a blue faux-hawk. She wants them to critique her Lord of the Rings-Twilight crossover fan fiction for NaNoWriMo. Her plot, she says, centers around the homoerotic love triangle of Aragorn, Legolas and Jacob Black who are trying to reconcile their love for each other with their undying devotion and lusts for her original character, Le'raenth'ryn, the blue haired elf-werewolf-vampire hybird who was orphaned when Lord Voldemort and Sauron destroyed her village. Lewis and Tolkien exchange glances, knock back the rest of their pints, and promptly stab her in the eyes with their fountain pens.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 08:46:09 +0100

Yes they do. They make excellent waiters and bus boys, with just the right amount of disdain for the people they serve and humility that their bad choice of degree gives them.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:54:35 +0100

This made me die inside, just a little bit. Because you know SOMEONE is writing this. And I do say this as someone writing fantasy. Epic low fantasy with loads of political backstabbing and murder. *sigh*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:54:58 +0100

Hahaha.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:15:46 +0100

Le'raenth'ryn should be the name of your first born.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:22:52 +0100

This made me laugh.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:03:59 +0100

[quote=TheGildedFox] For some reason, this brings up an image in my mind: She wants them to critique her Lord of the Rings-Twilight crossover fan fiction for NaNoWriMo. [/quote] The thought of this makes me want to kill myself. damn you, youngling. may your feet be cold for three nights hence.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:02:39 +0100

"I would disagree that they are writing scifi." Didn't preview/proofread my work.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:03:03 +0100

"Manga Glass Licking" That, hands down, is the greatest phrase I have ever read. I am sitting here with actual tears in my eyes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:12:10 +0100

Zenken, this is for you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:33:28 +0100

I'm with you. A lot of people seem to think "I added a space ship!" = "science fiction". A reasonable percentage of us differ. (Including me! Wee!)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:26:23 +0100

Its short for Le'raenth'rnolium Okasa Northraen. I really shouldn't make fun. My first attempt at a novel was a fantasy with characters named Leodyn, Gaelshevayne and Hathor of the land of Turanduril. The difference is that I knew it sucked and never intended for it to see the light of day. Some of these kids seem to think that they are God's gift to fine literature, the publishing industry, and humanity itself. One particular thread that has me seeing red right now is the "What's so great about publishing and editing thread?" In said thread, the poster says that editing is inherently evil because you're destroying the "pure form" of the writing. I just...I don't even...ugh...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:39:59 +0100

I wouldn't let anyone read my first book. I am pretty sure that at this point *I* can't even read by my first book.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:41:44 +0100

*SNICKERS* Oh, I know this draft is crap. The work will come in cleaning this draft up before anyone but friends will see it. I bet there's three drafts of mine before I dare even see if it's any good.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:48:35 +0100

[quote=TheGildedFox] I really shouldn't make fun. My first attempt at a novel was a fantasy with characters named Leodyn, Gaelshevayne and Hathor of the land of Turanduril. The difference is that I knew it sucked and never intended for it to see the light of day. Some of these kids seem to think that they are God's gift to fine literature, the publishing industry, and humanity itself. [/quote] I don't think my high school writing names were quite that complicated, and really you learn that names need to mean something to either you or the world your character lives in. At one time I thought using real names spelled backwards was clever. O my young and silly past self!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:04:13 +0100

But my cat is so precious I want to put her in a crockpot for Thanksgiving dinner. >.> And my characters in my head are so real they're more real than my real friends and OMG, what would Celia think if you said that to her right now! She'd cut your arm off or something. Jeez, don't piss her off. I won't rag on coffee tho. I live on caffeine. I'm trying to figure out how to mainline it. For the record, I don't get homoerotic male porn. As a woman, it does ZERO for me. I don't understand girls/women who think it's awesomely sexy and loving and yakyakyak.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:11:05 +0100

[quote=vNichols] I am actually a big snob about "life experience" being linked to the quality of your work. So, basically, if you're 20? And, you've never had a significant other? And your entire existence is school and fan-wanking out homosexual erotica about organs you've never encountered in real life? I am going nod and smile and tune you out. If you're 35? And, everyone knows you by your *characters* name? And the only other "people" you mention interacting with are your "furbabies?" And you talk about your *characters* like they're invisible homonculi that will probably tell you to kill you neighbors one day? No. NO. *NO.* [/quote] Agreed, but I would add that you don't need specific experience. I don't find it interesting to write about submarines, nuclear reactors, computer code or fiber optic transport networks (all of which I have first hand knowledge and experience of). I haven't figured out a way to use any of that in an interesting way that some writers have already done. But I do know the value of having experience and trying to have real knowledge about some of the things you want to talk about. Perhaps I'd like to have an architect character. Time to understand what it takes to be an architect, what influences an architect, etc. But who cares about doing research? That's work.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 13:00:54 +0100

[quote=vNichols] And you talk about your *characters* like they're invisible homonculi that will probably tell you to kill you neighbors one day? No. NO. *NO.* [/quote] This to the millionth power. My wife likes doing NaNo every year, but I think I could more easily get her to lie down in the driveway and let me run her over than get her to go to any of the local regions' social gatherings. She's a very sociable person and has a high tolerance for eccentricity, but the prospect of hanging around with these unhinged my-characters-told-me-I-was-molested-at-camp wannabe scribes gives her the howling fantods worse than anything else. One region she calls the Region of Misfit Toys had a wrap up party last year that was a cross between an NA meeting in South Boston and the banquet scene in Freaks. My daughter and I went to giggle at their incoherent self-congratulatory ravings and eat their brownies. In retrospect, we probably shouldn't have eaten their brownies. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:24:03 +0100

Writers need to live crazy, awful ridiculous lives until they are ready to sit and write it all down.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:09:47 +0100

Okay. You have a point. We can keep the coffee.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 11:35:24 +0100

Hmmm, I never thought of having people calling me by my character's name. That actually sounds like fun. Alright everyone, from now on, you may call me Ludwig van Beethoven. I will also accept Maestro...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:22:55 +0100

You wouldn't be able to hear anyone call you anything. We'd have to use ASL. How does one sign Beethoven?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 13:19:40 +0100

[quote=TheGildedFox] If I see an Anime character in someone's avatar, I automatically skip that post and read the next one. There, I said it. [/quote] "Hey! No one likes a hater!" -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:35:52 +0100

I hope the quantification of 'this' isn't 0 or 1, because 'this' to the millionth power would still be 0 or 1, respectively.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:28:02 +0100

How about some old school?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:11:11 +0100

What? I'm sorry, I was unable to read either one of those posts due to some sort of mental block.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:24:26 +0100

Is that Star Blazers?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:48:29 +0100

If you seriously think I would This something that only rated a 0 or 1 even before I Thissed it, you must not have a lot of respect for me. So why don't you just say it to my face? -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:57:24 +0100

Just checking the completeness of your Thisness Theorem. Boundary check made.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:11:49 +0100

zenken is the Fiction Bully from Hell. I'd kiss his feet if he didn't currently have me in a clawhold. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:53:21 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] "Manga Glass Licking" That, hands down, is the greatest phrase I have ever read. I am sitting here with actual tears in my eyes. [/quote] Haha thanks.... I got more where that came from.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 20:55:23 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] zenken is the Fiction Bully from Hell. [/quote] It's funny you say that. The kid with the depressing writing you point out actually thanked me for telling her that her dialogue sucked. Not all truth hurts. I just have you in a full nelson. You're getting sleepy....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:57:21 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] Zenken, this is for you. [/quote] That's disturbing yet alluring. Fortunately, it's too bizarre for me to watch more than once, which saves brain cells from immolation.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:18:26 +0100

[quote=snappyssidekick] Writers need to live crazy, awful ridiculous lives until they are ready to sit and write it all down. [/quote] I was watching Ice Station Zebra last month. Quite a nice film. The nuclear sub was pretty faithfully done - except the 'glowy sunlight' of the reactor compartment, the underwater headlight on the sail, and surfacing through the ice with the periscope up. Anyway, I picked up the novel version and started reading about Alistair Maclean the author. He's had all the old school qualities of a writer - drunkard, rough family life, interesting personal life. Should make the book interesting to read by itself. After nano, of course.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:22:45 +0100

Basically, that. Lest you end up writing stories about sparkling vampires that love pants.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 21:38:59 +0100

That's what I thought. Still waiting for the Akira pics. And Speed Racer.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:11:24 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] That's what I thought. Still waiting for the Akira pics. And Speed Racer. [/quote] Yeah sorry, but Star Blazers (aka Space Battleship Yamato) was the anime show for me. In one season, it had 1. a complete story arc from beginning to end (unheard of in American cartoons), 2. character angst and evolution (also unheard of), 3. romance, and 4. death and loss . That's a lot for a young kid and I loved it. It taught you about everything a story should be in a fairly straightforward way. I worried every episode that Captain Avatar was going to die. That was real to a kid. Desslok Desslok Desslok! Then I learned to read. Speed Racer? Not the same. Akira? An excellent film, but SB predates that by half a decade or more. Akira is a benchmark film that I haven't seen much anime reach since.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:20:07 +0100

Something you butcher and put in a pot with taters to make a stew.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:39:45 +0100

What I've gleaned from context is that it's a story idea that doesn't go anywhere. A chekhov's gun that never gets fired, if you will. Some character or event or thing that crops up in your work but doesn't necessarily belong (since it would then be just 'plot', sans bunny). You're then left with the option to either excise it (which, of course, you can't, because god forbid you try to introduce quality control), you try to work it into the story, or you just leave it there as a non-sequitur. Most writers would get rid of excess ones and call the remainder - the ones that actually work in their stories - 'ideas'. Nano writers, by and large, out big glowing signs on them and trawl the forums for compliments on how clever and 'random' they are for including This Giant Hat And I Don't Even Know Where The Ninja Got It! Lolol!!1one Tvtropes appears to confirm my suspicions and says it comes from fan fiction circles, which explains why it's unfamiliar.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:12:17 +0100

i never did either till one hopped across my path. it is actually an unplanned-for novel idea that looks so cute and shiny it distracts you from the novel you are already laboring over. just like that biological clock thing, i never thought it would happen to me, but it did. and in both cases, i shot it down.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:03:03 +0100

I first heard the term in Harry Potter fandom nearly ten years ago... I think it refers to an idea for something which has "bred." I never got it, either. Last thing I heard was that they'd become an injoke and people are knitting them as mascots or something. Iunno. Kids these days.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:34:53 +0100

I will admit. There was one brief season of my life where I watched some anime films. I was dating this beautiful Mexican gentleman from Juarez and he was obsessed with a show called The Knights of ...something-I-can't-remember. They put on these exo-suit things and gained superpowers of some sort. Anyways, he wanted me to watch it with him and I did. It was actually pretty entertaining most of the time... Although I think that mostly due to the fact that we were watching it in Japanese with Spanish subtitles which he would then translate into English for me. And there may have been alcoholic beverages involved.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:38:16 +0100

I'm not an Anime fan, either. But when I was a kid, at 3pm, me and my sister and brother were glued! We will still sing the theme song when we get together.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:32:09 +0100

Conies with taters! You mash 'em you cook 'em you stick 'em in a stew! Samweis knew what he was talking about.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:44:20 +0100

Mmmm plot bunny stew. Goes well with chopped oxford comma salad and red wine.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:37:07 +0100

What's taters, precious?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:38:08 +0100

Oh, and Trigun too. I actually enjoyed that one a bit, when I knew what the hell was going on.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:52:16 +0100

Gee, it's such a mystery why professional writers like Laura Miller are so down on NaNo, when it's all about instilling such sensible writing habits in amateur scribes. Now if you'll excuse me, I have all this broken glass I'd rather eat out of the toilet than do the plot bunny thing. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:09:32 +0100

It makes more sense to me now, I suppose. Whenever I heard about them before, all I could think of was the bunny from Monty Python's Holy Grail, but really it's just a distracting idea that is given too much prominence, instead of being chopped. Is this correct?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:36:48 +0100

I'm on it. Watch me sell this fucking turd.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:44:31 +0100

Go-go-gadget Marketing Copy!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:51:18 +0100

Also, this whole not having an edit button thing is going to make me throw my iPad at a city bus.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:37:48 +0100

Dude I'm an attorney. I ALWAYS use my powers for evil. I write contracts and license agreements and those fuckin' privacy policies and terms of service that steal your firstborn child because you had the audacity to want to use my clients' products. Rumpelstiltskin is my BFF, yo.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:05:07 +0100

[quote]Speaking of which...any of you crazy folks ever use your writing powers for evil? Not "Taking over the free world" evil, but "Watch me manipulate these idiots" evil?[/quote] I once was tempted to convince mothers on a parenting board who were getting ridiculous about names and the spelling of said names that Disslexxya was a really awesome and unique choice of name for their offspring to be. Does that count?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:38:05 +0100

What?!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:06:01 +0100

NOOOO! I'm going to procrastinate further to watch the trainwreckage!!! You're an evil man, Shem. ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:16:30 +0100

I was given the MBTI years ago, and scored slightly J. But as I got older, taking the Kiersey thing now and then, I became solidly P. And the INT was always a given.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:55:21 +0100

Potatoes

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

moonpook — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:19:23 +0100

Dude. I'll see your contracts and license agreements and raise you: I was a technical writer for a decade -- I created user manuals, online training, FEDERAL FORMS, document storage setups, executive summaries, and explainations of Mnemonicer's Evil Forms of Evil in "Plain English." (Well, likely not Mnemonicer's but someone else's Evil Forms of Evil.) I am EEee-vil like the DE-vil ("So I Married an Axe Murderer" reference that just doesn't work in type. Sad.) As Kingsley Amis once said, "Any proper writer ought to be able to write anything from an Easter Day sermon to a sheep-dip handout." What Mr. Amis forgot to mention is that it must be a properly Evil sheep-dip handout if you wanna get paid!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:41:43 +0100

The flirty talk has degenerated into discussions of chlamydia and skin cancer. Amputation-banter can't be far off. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:50:34 +0100

Thank you! You just made me snort hot chocolate. Got me out of my damn death scene funk.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 02:51:38 +0100

I was trying to catch my breath in between parts of a battle scene and practically choked on my own tongue. Wow.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:31:29 +0100

Po-ta-toes...boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:18:02 +0100

If I had it beforehand, and it made the sex better, sure! Otherwise, just basically unnecessary. :-)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:27:04 +0100

I have heard vegan marshmallows exist. That doesn't mean they should.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:28:03 +0100

Should vegan anything exist? I mean, other than what's already naturally vegan? Dammit, now I want a steak.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:30:39 +0100

+1 But anyway, I'm pretty sure kosher marshmallows are "vegan-friendly."

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:02:49 +0100

G+ User alert!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:04:24 +0100

It's really not nice of you to be so mean to the kiddies, Matt.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

TheGildedFox — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 04:39:32 +0100

Its so easy!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:20:26 +0100

I think you're a wonderful young man, MattHawthorneIsAMyth. By the by, if you read this particular thread flat instead of nested, it's way messed up.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:06:54 +0100

You are a true Puck, a trickster.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:14:06 +0100

Matt is the Pied Piper of the Pissed Off Cynics. And zenken is his burly enforcer. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:13:27 +0100

Yikes! You know the best cure for a bad day? Hot chocolate with Bailey's Irish Cream in it. You can even top it with a vegan marshmallow. It might take a few cups to really take care of the problem.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mutive — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:26:03 +0100

I'm with you here. If you look at the vast majority of literature it is...fanfiction. Please name me something Shakespeare wrote that was not derivative. (If you figure it out, you are far more educated than I!) Or perhaps Sopho cles, Euripides, Virgil, Homer? Of course 99% of fanfiction is crap. So is 99% of all fiction. Good job figuring that one out.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:04:37 +0100

[quote=Jessindistress]Agreed, and thankyou. [/quote] You're welcome! And thank you! [quote]I kind of resent the idea that fanfiction sucks and that everyone who writes it is an idiot: I could say the same of other genres (ye gawds, I hate fantasy and sci-fi is starting to do my head in, and don't even get me started on everyone's latest trend, Steampunk...) but that would be unfair and dismissing the writers who do put some effort in and which manage to not fall into cliches and the usual tripe I've come to associate with such genres. Furthermore, there are people out there who think that everyone doing NaNoWriMo, for whatever reason, is an idiot, and I've come across enough people in this forum who seem to not fall into that category. :) I can see how people don't get it, but to generalise like that is unfair. I've read better written, and better edited fanfiction that manages to explain canon better than canon itself does (videogames often leave gaping great plotholes in between missions or the action-y bits, so it's lovely when someone tries to explain them) and which makes plenty of published material look like something someone... had whipped up in 30 days. [/quote] Exactly. If you don't like a genre, don't read it. None of us are standing in your home holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read it. There are things I don't like, and would never read because I don't like them, but other people love them and that's perfectly fine. Generalizing and saying 'all x is bad and all people who write x are idiots' IS unfair, and life is too short to spend it angsting over the existence of a genre you don't like.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:50:17 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] Matt is the Pied Piper of the Pissed Off Cynics. And zenken is his burly enforcer. -Shem [/quote] And Shem is the cane swinging Old Man yelling 'Get off my lawn!' :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:31:15 +0100

[quote=MermaidSirena] They only thing I would caution you on is questioning someone's word count. This is an honor system thing - if the person wants to lie leave them alone. They are not worth the time. Also- it is against the rules to question someone else. [/quote] Fine, I don't question their word count. I question their honor. That's easier, because it pretty much covers all bases and is fair.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 22:13:05 +0100

The first year I did nano, I had a one year old and I was 4 months pregnant with my second. That was my highest word count to date, at 100k. When I read that novel back, it is actually not that bad, although there was a good deal of prewriting in it. I was writing in every moment I could and I wouldn't let myself stop and I wouldn't let myself edit and I wouldn't let myself read it over. I think the experience was valuable for my writing process and for my self confidence. I'd written a novel before, going at the speed of one to three pages a day, and most of my writing hours were spent wracked with anxiety. When I started nanowrimo I think I didn't know how much I was capable of, and I pushed myself. My word count has gone down since then, this year, I am barely keeping up with the minimum, but I'm still going steady. It's hard for me not to be an overachiever, but I just can't do it with two kids AND a job. One or the other, I think I'd manage, but not both. I'm learning instead to go at a slower pace... if writing 1667 words a day can be considered a "slower" pace. I'm hoping it builds better long term writing habits, instead of leading to burnout. A marathon, rather than a sprint. But even though I don't think being an over achiever on nano is sustainable, except for those with OCD and other obsessives, I think my experience as an over achiever was a good one. I have to admit, I don't think I'm quite a pissed off cynic, but I do enjoy the snark, so I'm staying.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:03:11 +0100

[quote=Mermaidsong] I could actually see how someone younger than me with no job and no kids could have an insanely high word count in a manner of days. If I had time to do nothing but write and a story was pouring from my head I think I would hole up and just type non stop too. [/quote] True. One year I did 200k (long story, which probably will be violating the TOS) and by Day 18, I had serious RSI pains shooting up my right arm. That said, though, I was writing like a maniac, and it was back in the days where I could write whilst at work. Said novel wasn't too terrible, to be honest, but far from finished and needing paring down. *shrugs* It can be done... but there will be a price to pay. Mine was that I pretty much didn't do anything else during November except sleep, shower, and have moments of depression. I also... had more space in my brain for writing back then, and plots and characters came to me much more easily. Now, it's more of an effort: I'm not sure why, but churning out a few thousand words in an hour was the norm back then... and now it's a few hundred.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

1CookieMomster — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:01:24 +0100

How 'bout zombie ninjas in drag who blow up if you take away their hairspray?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:09:01 +0100

50k? Doable and manageable if you're dedicated. 100k? Absolutely, if you're prepared, organized and have time. 250k? Now you're starting to push the boundaries, but if you don't have commitments (a difficult major, a job, a spouse, children, etc.) - absolutely. Past 250k I have serious doubts as to 1. actual word count 2. actual story 3. actual writing. If you're into that range and beyond, you don't need nano to write. Most of the folks in the sub-quarter million range are going for all three. Granted the last one is hard to achieve if your writing doesn't feel particularly fabulous or if #2 that was a Good Idea is turning into a Bad Idea. Genres vary greatly in need for preparation. I think that scifi (hard), literary and historical fiction would be the most difficult to write for if you haven't done a modicrum of research beforehand. Fantasy and scifi (soft) would be the easiest, since you're just making shit up. The rest of the genres fall somewhere in between, depending on your approach to history, knowledge, facts and character particulars. So, the question is: Could professional writers achieve 250k+ word count monthly if quality were an issue?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:16:22 +0100

[quote=Mutive] I'm with you here. If you look at the vast majority of literature it is...fanfiction. Please name me something Shakespeare wrote that was not derivative. [/quote] There's no fucking way you could even remotely be serious. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:03:00 +0100

I'm so thankful (hehe, get it?) that I'm not hosting this year. In fact, we're having a very low key easy Thanksgiving with my parents, playing board games and eating finger foods. No turkey! All I have to do is provide dessert, which won't take me long to make with Wednesday off work. I should have some time to write in the morning before we leave. Last year was my first NaNoWriMo. I learned a lot, mostly what not to do and a bit about the way I work when it comes to creative processes. It was the first time I attempted for force creativity instead of just writing when the mood struck me. I got 18k the whole month. The nail in the coffin was Thanksgiving. By this point in the month last year I was desperately behind, knew I couldn't make the goal, but still wanted to write for my own purposes. I in the game, so to speak. But then I had to host Thanksgiving and the entire week was consumed with cooking, buying, cleaning, hosting, and recovering. The reason I was hosting was because my husband had to work that day, so I did it all myself. I didn't write a word on that novel that week or any point after. It still sits, untouched, at 18k words. As a holiday, I like it better than Christmas because there's less pressure. In fact, it bothers me that it is getting subsumed by Christmas, especially since more stores are starting their Black Friday on Thursday night. Let your employees enjoy the day off, guys! Your crazy Black Friday customers will still be there on Friday.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:28:27 +0100

So, you're surprised by Thanksgiving coming in November? This happens every year in the U.S. If you accept the fact that you're doing nano, then you have to account for Thanksgiving. Either you keep up the daily word count, get ahead and take a couple of days off, or you fall behind and make it up on the back end of the month. It's time management and math. I have to stand around and listen to an admiral give a speech for my Thanksgiving dinner instead of being with my family. I'm still going to write. Being with family is your excuse, not mine. I'd still be doing this if I was sitting in a tent on an FOB.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:12:38 +0100

I'm not really a big fan of any holiday where I am forced to make public appearances. By nature I am a bit of a recluse (introvert doesn't even begin to describe it) and tend to keep to myself unless I know you very well. That being said, my family usually invites a myriad of people over to the house and commences with idle chit-chat. I hate, I repeat, I HATE pointless communication with chit-chat being the absolute bane of my existence. I'd rather just sit in my room or down in the basement drinking beer and being generally unapproachable. Two years ago one of my aunts on my wife's side of the family got particularly drunk on boxed wine and decided that it would be appropriate to hit on me. Not only was I thoroughly creeped out, my wife made mention of it to another aunt who is notorious for having loose lips and it has since become a running joke in the family. Let me tell you, it's funny to everyone except me. Additionally, my father in law is a prominent music producer around southern Massachusetts and has several clients that come to our yearly soiree. He produces mostly bluegrass, jazz, and ballroom and the types of musicians that are attracted to those styles are out of touch with most modern music and, for the most part, fantastically boring people to converse with. One, a jazz musician who boasts about his work with Dizzie Gillespie and Miles Davis, has the sourest breath that I have ever smelled. He also has a tendency to chew with his mouth open, trails off about religion, (He's a Jehovah's witness) and breaks into scat at a moment's notice. I wish I was making that up. I combat those people with tirades on why we should thank the Baby Raptor Jesus for the food we are about to receive.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

moonpook — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:27:15 +0100

I got REJECTED by the local soup kitchen! ...they're full up on volunteers to serve on Thanksgiving. So, my neighbors are awesome, but that still leaves me flopping around the house, bored. Stupid soup kitchen. *grumble whine* LilMissZilla -- did you see the recent Daily Show piece on the now all-but-forgotten Evacuation Day? To celebrate, you climb poles and mark the retreat of the British after they'd occupied New York for years whilst committing horrible war crimes upon captured American prisoners. Now, there's something a pissed-off cynic can get behind! ...if only it had been the French. Then it would've been the PERFECT holiday! ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:01:41 +0100

I ask because that's a reasonable metric. Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence is not enough. A sampling group over a longer period is likely to provide a better idea.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:33:13 +0100

*if quality was NOT an issue?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:28:03 +0100

I think I want you as my personal trainer. (but I want to get in better shape first).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:14:08 +0100

Know I say this with the greatest reverence.... I think you put the "pissed" in "Pissed off cynics", boy howdy! Do you have a good recipe for stuffing?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:33:23 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] I think I want you as my personal trainer. (but I want to get in better shape first). [/quote] P.S. That defeats the purpose of having a personal trainer. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:20:17 +0100

When you get your fiction-writin' ass handed to you by zenken, you thank him for not making you walk over and get it. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:45:00 +0100

[quote=LittleMissZilla] Know I say this with the greatest reverence.... I think you put the "pissed" in "Pissed off cynics", boy howdy! Do you have a good recipe for stuffing? [/quote] I'm not pissed. I just do not accept certain excuses. 'Busy', 'lazy', 'poor planning' 'omg thanksgiving' are excuses, not reasons. If OCD jelly bean counter guy/girl can 'type' 500k+ words about what glue he/she is sniffing today, then you can sure as hell write 50k words about story you care about. It's absolutely possible. 'My dog/computer/mom/significant other died', 'I was hit by a car' are pretty valid reasons for getting behind. I'm only pissed about how much coddling goes on here. Check out the word count here in PoC. Just on this page alone everyone is reasonably at or past the halfway point (exception: heavy hedonist). The nose is to the grindstone and working. I don't make stuffing. I beat it out of people. ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:34:03 +0100

Nah, not going there. BUT.... I respect a take no prisoners attitude all the same.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:46:56 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] When you get your fiction-writin' ass handed to you by zenken, you thank him for not making you walk over and get it. -Shem [/quote] Hey, that's a pretty good way to lose weight. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:22:17 +0100

MattHawthorne, this article is for YOU: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-thanksgiving-disasters-youre-probably-not-prepared-for/

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 18:39:49 +0100

I can suddenly see why you are a pissed off cynic.....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:09:55 +0100

MattNot, that is why I cook the dinners. I spend the entire day in the kitchen on Thanksgiving, listening to old music and sampling my food glory. If I had to go to a Thanksgiving thing? Well, whoever invited me could piss right off. And my family hangs out all day doing their own thing, thinking it all smells good. It's a win. They're thankful for a big dinner and a lot of pie.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:07:24 +0100

yeah, I know. I just want to be personally convinced that I can improve before you start berating me for not making any progress :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 19:37:56 +0100

Sweeet! Beat some stuffing outta me! Soz I can serve it..... I wasn't really expecting coddling for the Thanksgiving rant, I thought my fatuousness was flaming all over that one. I'm not afraid of getting behind, in my case I'd just prefer to write on Thanksgiving rather than cook. Also, I would never REALLY insult a frozen turkey, because it's just plain unfair. I'm pretty much with you on the coddling by the way. I mean, I honestly have all the time in the world for anyone having self doubt, perfectionist complications, writer's block, etc. if they're folks truly looking for a boost in order to better help THEMSELVES. But yeah, I don't dig on coddling folks who just want a guilt-free "Get out of NaNo Free" card. I get what you mean there. No one is forcing any of us to do this at gunpoint. It's basically my philosophy about people in general. I'm not as hard-ass as thee, but have a very low tolerance for unassertive folks. Having some self worth issues but are willing to try hard to change it even if there are bumps along the way? I'm all up in that and I can be supportive from start to the finish, cheering all the way. I have all the time in the world for people who take a vested interest in accepting responsibility for their own lives, those who own the fact they have the power to change. I will help them no matter how long it might take, if they're fighting the good fight to get back on their own two feet. Having some self worth issues but just want to feel like shit and bitch about how the rest of the world should change in order to make you feel better without lifting a finger yourself? No, that's toxic shit and I exit the situation as soon as I smell it. People like that don't want to hear about optimistic futures and possible solutions, they just want everyone to believe there's NO WAY they can get a break from their 'bad luck'. They want to be indulged, they deflect personal responsibility at every turn, and the shittiest thing is they WANT the people around them to be as miserable as they are to serve as 'proof' the world just sucks, they hate successful people and they feel comfort when other people fail. I have a hard time keeping my own temper sometimes when it comes to folks like that. I LOVE complaining and bitching, though, when it is done properly (Lewis Black comes to mind). I'm also a fan of gratuitous drama for shits and giggles, but that might be fairly obvious by now.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:20:32 +0100

"Check out the word count here in PoC. Just on this page alone everyone is reasonably at or past the halfway point" And you're past 50k! Congratulations, Zenken.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:44:37 +0100

Take good notes. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 20:42:33 +0100

[quote=LittleMissZilla] Having some self worth issues but are willing to try hard to change it even if there are bumps along the way? I'm all up in that and I can be supportive from start to the finish, cheering all the way. I have all the time in the world for people who take a vested interest in accepting responsibility for their own lives, those who own the fact they have the power to change. I will help them no matter how long it might take, if they're fighting the good fight to get back on their own two feet. Having some self worth issues but just want to feel like shit and bitch about how the rest of the world should change in order to make you feel better without lifting a finger yourself? No, that's toxic shit and I exit the situation as soon as I smell it. People like that don't want to hear about optimistic futures and possible solutions, they just want everyone to believe there's NO WAY they can get a break from their 'bad luck'. They want to be indulged, they deflect personal responsibility at every turn, and the shittiest thing is they WANT the people around them to be as miserable as they are to serve as 'proof' the world just sucks, they hate successful people and they feel comfort when other people fail. I have a hard time keeping my own temper sometimes when it comes to folks like that. [/quote] See, that's where I get hung up. In your writing, you and your characters can be whatever and whomever you want to be. You can write a story about a hero going on a journey even though you personally have never left your hometown. You can write about being a wizard without actually being one (no Wiccans do not count, though pinball wizards do). Nano has no requirements but the pact you make with yourself. You can lie your ass off about your word count and no one will know but you. By and large, most people are honest with their word counts, but they fill themselves up with so much doubt it's like watching a written panic attack in progress. You have to care about what you're writing. I don't care how many virtual cookies and cuddles and glitter people throw your way: it's still your novel, shitty prose and all (I am pretty sure I got lots of that in this draft so far, but the story is there). I'd explain a ton of hurdles I've overcome in my life, but really it's just about getting over these hurdles. Believe me, these are tiny fucking hurdles. Herman Melville didn't just crap out Moby Dick, neither did F. Scott Fitzgerald write 'The Great Gatsby' fully formed from the eternal fount of creativity. Bull. They sat down, like you are now (though with Ye Olde Pen and Paper) and labored. You get over your fears when you tell a story, and when you become your story. You're going to look back at the end of the month and think 'what the hell was I doing that week... I could've been writing and now I'm not done... but I'm at 50,000 words'. FYI, I love to read, but I just have to stop reading when I do nano. I only have so much time in the day, and that book that SOMEONE else wrote will just have to wait until I'm done with mine. Sure, bitch, moan and complain how hard it is to get that story out and onto the paper. That's why we're here (plus other people are annoying), but excuses aren't what we want to hear. We want to hear how you're making it. At least I do. I don't like excuses. After a while, you get tired of even making them yourself. So drop, give me twenty pushups, and then 1,667 words.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:50:57 +0100

FTMFW. You're my new best friend. :D I'm actually pretty good at explaining "Mnemonicer's Evil Forms of Evil" in Plain English. I pride myself on managing to translate massively complicated legal concepts for the layman (otherwise known as clients and friends who are targets of my rants).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:13:43 +0100

I haven't been able to read during nano for two reasons: 1. Time. 2. Soul-crushing inadequacy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:40:39 +0100

I just did 20 push ups. Man, I'm outta shape!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:11:00 +0100

I dropped and gave you 6,714. Because that's how I roll. (Actually, that's how I write when I have an unexpected 'Eureka!" moment picking up cigarettes, but I like pretending I'm a smooth, smoooooth genius.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:00:31 +0100

I can't read and write simultaneously because the other authors' voices tend to get into mine, which is no good. Also I tend to fall into hypercritical-of-others'-writing mode while I'm writing, making it difficult to enjoy things. Plus the whole lack of time thing. It was my birthday yesterday and now I've got a stack of books and video games to motivate me through the next 25-75 thousand words...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:15:06 +0100

Mmm pie. That sounds like a good way to spend Thanksgiving. We usually put the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade on the tv. It's something my grandmother used to do. A house full of cooking smells is a powerful memory.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:30:32 +0100

MattNot...hmmm, I kinda like that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:06:32 +0100

[quote=Lyria2] And you're past 50k! Congratulations, Zenken. [/quote] Thanks! I was shooting for writing 2,500 a day to see if I could make it to 75k. Now that I've passed 50k, I'm relaxing the need to keep hitting 2.5k, since I've mostly written the entire story. I've hit the nano goal and every day I write more than I've ever written before. Of course, being trapped in Djibouti on Thanksgiving will probably spur me to write 5k for a few days straight. It's a little bizarre to hit my goal this early. I am not a fast (or particularly good) writer, but I am learning more discipline and determination each nano go around.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:31:00 +0100

Dude, pizza is a vegetable now. How can you hate? But yes. Congressional approval is now slightly lower than herpes. Way to go democracy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:32:14 +0100

Long story short: I'm a federal employee, and part of my job requires reading some kinds of congressional documentation. (I have no doubt this is why I cannot summon the creative energy to write on my lunch break.) My disgust at Congress hit a low point at the near-shutdown back in April and hasn't risen since.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Burnt Sushi — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:19:49 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] Campaign Slogan: Do your jobs or GTFO. [/quote] I love you. Seriously, though. We're told, as kids, to work hard and play fair, and not point fingers, and work together. wee grow up. And then politics. And i look at both parties and ask "Did i miss something? Are we ALL supposed to be accoutability-dodging, fingerpointing, hypocritical, holier than thou asshats now?" Because, you know, it looks more like Anarchy lately than an actual government.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:24:09 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] I just did 20 push ups. Man, I'm outta shape! [/quote] 20 more for getting past 50k. Congratulations!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:50:58 +0100

[quote=MrBadgerPants] Congressional approval is now slightly lower than herpes.[/quote] So, herpes has approval?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 08:08:19 +0100

Where's the gal with the two thumbs up icon? That appears apropos right about now. I was so frothing angry earlier this evening I vomited all over my Facebook. It's rather embarrassing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:13:02 +0100

Apparently slightly higher than 9%. I'm not sure what sort of questions they ask in these polls, but presumably it's a little more shaded than, "So, the herp: thumbs up or thumbs down?" Though I'd be willing to believe that better than 9% of US Citizens, if asked, would say that they approve of herpes for its role in killing Godless slatterns and reducing the surplus population. But that's probably just the cynic in me :p

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:14:44 +0100

Wow, I'd hate to be Congress right now, the way Congress is taking it on the chin from a bunch of online wags. It's almost enough to make you feel sorry for Congress. If it wasn't Congress, I mean. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Penemuel — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:30:51 +0100

[quote=Lyria2] Long story short: I'm a federal employee, and part of my job requires reading some kinds of congressional documentation. (I have no doubt this is why I cannot summon the creative energy to write on my lunch break.) My disgust at Congress hit a low point at the near-shutdown back in April and hasn't risen since. [/quote] Hello from a fellow fed-up fed. I'm so very, very tired of all the shenanigans. But even more than that, I'm tired of the absolute UTTER ignorance of what we do, how we're paid, whether we pay taxes (yes, goddamn it, we DO pay taxes. We're NOT getting a free ride on your tax dollar, WANKERS.), whether we get a free retirement (no, we pay into our own, and my only damned retirement money comes from what I can contribute into the thrift savings plan (with a bit paid by the government, yes, but still they don't pay for the whole thing!), crossing my fingers really hard and hoping the stock exchange doesn't tank, and social security), etc. etc. etc.. The most disgusting part of it is that some in the House & Senate don't even have their facts straight. Just because THEY get a free ride doesn't mean every government employee does. *scream of rage*

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:27:02 +0100

Ha! Any progress is good progress. I'm not as berating in person. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:05:54 +0100

Well, voting is less fun than sex, so at least with herpes you had a few moments of joy before it all came crashing down. Also, herpes can be treated. There's no cure for Congress.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:04:36 +0100

Amen!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:46:08 +0100

Dude I totally respect lots of fed workers. I have lawyer friends all up and down the state and federal systems in legal and nonlegal spots. Don't even start me on the underpaid lawyers with the ridiculous caseloads being vilified for being state/fed employees. Sometimes it seems that the only ones not working are the ones sitting in the great big chamber with their thumbs up their asses.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:20:31 +0100

[quote=Lyria2] Well, voting is less fun than sex, so at least with herpes you had a few moments of joy before it all came crashing down. Also, herpes can be treated. There's no cure for Congress. [/quote] Getting elected is probably the moment of joy, followed by 2-6 years of floundering then a lifetime of benefits. Lol voting is less fun than sex. I never see anyone coming out of a polling station relaxed and smoking a cigarette....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:17:29 +0100

I was going to say Super size Diet Coke or Quad shot venti mocha frappacino. I don't get diet drinks, though I like Diet Dr. Pepper because of the taste only. There's no diet about it....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:58:57 +0100

I get those, too. They suck. Last time I smashified it with a classical mechanics textbook.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 23:38:04 +0100

[quote=MattHawthorneIsAMyth] I just had my best friend wreck a ganglion (bible) cyst on the back of my hand with a pool parts book. It was the single most bro-tastic moment in history. Also, GANGLION CYST WTF MAN?! Y U NO BOTHER SOMEONE ELSE?! [/quote] My late great-grandmother used to get those, and she used to whack them with a cast iron skillet. She was peasant stock from the former Czechoslovakia, if you took so much as an aspirin for a headache you were a complete weakling in her eyes.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MattHawthorneIsAMyth — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:09:36 +0100

What exactly is yoai fanfiction? Also, why do furries have to ruin everything?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:16:23 +0100

Gay porn that pretends to be fancy, generally. The fans will try to dress it up various ways, but in the end it's dudes doin' it in the butt. Or, if not, dudes giving each other the rape eyes 'cause, really, they'd rather be doing it in the butt than fighting vampires or whatever.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:32:07 +0100

Gay porn (whether it's explicitly sexual or just packed to the gills with subtext) primarily written by women, for women. You know how straight porn has the obligatory girl-on-girl thing for the dudes to enjoy? This is what a lot of women like. *shrugs* Sometimes it's done really well and is amazing; sometimes it's hideous, out of character and basically indistinguishable from heterosexual romance with the exception of some anatomical changes. It does not necessarily involve furries, yiffing, pedophiles or anything else. It may not involve explicit sex (and when people haven't done the basic research, it's better when it DOESN'T involve explicit sex.) Also, to address MrBadgerPants' comment, quite often the Japanese stuff makes no effort to be "fancy": the term itself is an abbreviation for the Japanese loosely translated to "No point, no plot." They're pretty upfront about it being "porn." "Slash" tends to be the more Westernised term for stuff that's not based around manga or Japanese fandoms, and tends to incorporate fanfiction of, say, Supernatural and Harry Potter rather than "yaoi." If people are writing original fiction about dudes getting it on, it's... just fiction which happens to be about gay people, isn't it? (It's not like there's a fancy special name for people writing about heterosexual people doing stuff and hooking up with other heterosexual people, is there?) As for the fanbase, it's my understanding that there are a few guys in the fandom but in Japan, the gay porn manga aimed at men, by men tends to feature ridiculously muscular dudes (remember when someone said Arnie looked like a condom stuffed with walnuts? That's what a lot of those dudes look like) known as bara. (Also, if you guys want to see the absolute worst in writing gay sex, I've found something that trumps teenagers who haven't worked out how to DL gay porn and who aren't aware of what purple prose is: google "G0ys," and watch what comes up. Nothing can top descriptions like "Greg Juice" and "volley of thick man-sauce." It only gets better that the site hosting this stuff describes it as "literature." This stuff, btw, is by men, for men, and makes even the craziest shit on fanfiction.net look good.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 22:19:45 +0100

Oh, and since it's fanfiction, the two dudes are probably Harry Potter and one or both of the guys from Supernatural. Or possibly a male version of Hermione and a male version of the author, because, for some reason, there are far more women in the yaoi afficianado grouping than there are homosexual males. I don't understand it, but I'm neither female nor homosexual so maybe I'm not supposed to.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:23:30 +0100

You know how most "lesbian porn" doesn't include actual lesbians and isn't intended for lesbian audiences? Because it's shot for straight dudes to watch? Yeah. It's like that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

moonpook — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:47:46 +0100

:) It is a rare thing that someone producing Evil Forms of Evil can actually decipher them for laymen. Brava! (Then again, if everyone could do it, I would've been unemployed!)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:30:41 +0100

I dunno. I am sort of amused at all the Twue Spirit of NaNo assertions.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:20:14 +0100

[quote=JocelynNano] It's possible some of these are even more cynical than you guys. ;) http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/site-and-message-board-feedback-and-suggestions/threads/38167 [/quote] I seriously doubt they are more cynical. They need to be less polite about it. Nano is a marathon. The competitive ones will get to 50k as fast as possible. Most will run the race and make it to the finish line in the best way they know how. These groups will be happy overall, even if they think their book is about as fun a reading a phonebook. They wrote it and it is an accomplishment. The rest will throw up their hands and quit before they've begun and find a reason that 'omg nano was not what it was boo hoo'. Some of them continue to write or cheer on others who are still trying to get to the end. Nano is going to be different every year and it gets bigger. That's the nature of success. Just find a nice chair over here at PoC, have a drink and enjoy. If nano isn't 'fun' or a 'challenge' for you anymore, I don't think it's because of a website.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:17:10 +0100

This is only my second year here, so I don't have the benefit of knowing What It Used To Be Back In The Day. But I have gathered that you get out what you put in with NaNoWriMo. It can be an entirely solitary self-challenge, you can screw the rules and rebel, you can be extremely social and go to every rah-rah event there is, you can be mildly social and just hit the fora or hang out with friends, you can watch the stats like a hawk, or you can not even bother to validate. The person you are really challenging is yourself. If 50k words isn't a challenge, make it 75k. If 50k is too much of a challenge, make it 25k. If you're less concerned about pure word count and more concerned about quality, then edit as you go. Or don't. If you want to focus on a previous work, then do so. If you want to write non-fiction, nothing is stopping you. IMHO, that's the beauty of this whole thing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:17:22 +0100

[quote=vNichols] You know how most "lesbian porn" doesn't include actual lesbians and isn't intended for lesbian audiences? Because it's shot for straight dudes to watch? Yeah. It's like that. [/quote] Lesbian fanfic written by teenage dudes? It's so horrendous, it hurts SO GOOD (and ironically, that's one of the phrases the lesbians in the teenage dude fanfic like to scream the most).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:00:20 +0100

[quote=vNichols] You know how most "lesbian porn" doesn't include actual lesbians and isn't intended for lesbian audiences? Because it's shot for straight dudes to watch? Yeah. It's like that. [/quote] Hmm. I must be doing it wrong because I'm watching straight porn. They aren't going to win any Oscars for best acting either way (not even for 'best fake orgasm')

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:32:15 +0100

Also: All hail the Mighty Herd of Teal Deers.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:41:52 +0100

Teal Deers? I couldn't make it past the grandpa Simpson ramble in the second post.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:12:44 +0100

Exactly. Too long; didn't read. TL; DR. Teal deers. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/tldr

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:43:40 +0100

I love when internet mysteries get crossed off my list.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 05:50:00 +0100

I'm well-acquainted with tl;dr. Just hadn't ever seen it written out with that pronunciation. Funny.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:13:39 +0100

Haha! I had no idea what you meant. I figured it was something someone mentioned in those long rambles that I skipped.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:06:40 +0100

[quote=bibliosylph] None of it even mentioned the main difference between now and when I signed up in 2005; the sheer number of young people and their young people energy. Here in this space, we're not so crazy about a lot of it. But even if you're a go teen write champion, you'd have to concede that skewing toward the facebook generation changes the play on the field. All I mean is that maybe those insanely long journal entries in that thread have some sort of point but aren't focusing on how the crowd has a different, um, cheer. I should stop now. Okay. [/quote] There's a pretty easy way to fix this: stop reading the fora. Barring that we could just hang out here and make fun of them as they wring their hands and ask if they are having 'angst'. I don't think anyone here is worried about their progress so far. I'm entertained by Shem's drive bys more than actually cruising the boards. Some people need to learn how to get to a point without rambling (too much). I think MattNot got two sentences in at the beginning of this thread. Save the word padding for the novel.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:06:51 +0100

[quote=MrWriteon] I love it though, much like a mother must love her ugly kid, the one that never learns how to tie its' shoes and always shits its' pants. It's never going to be what you want it to be but it's yours and you love it just the same.[/quote] You're allowed to pick a gender for your ugly baby.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:37:27 +0100

Write-Ins are a) a mutual meeting of like-minded people who want to write together and not feel so alone doing something dorky like attempt 50k in a month, where they can discuss shared stresses and know others are going through the same thing or-- b) a chance for people to meet up and act like tools and try to out-zany one another and be social. Take your pick, though it might depend on your region which one you get.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:24:47 +0100

That's what my husband says about write-ins! He's never been to a one and doesn't intend to go. He takes solitary writing to an extreme, going out with a drink and a smoke, sitting in the woods with pen and paper. My local region tends to be more laid back than rah-rah zany. So, I've gone to a few. For me, it's a way to shake me out of a rut and get me to focus. I have oddly fewer distractions at a write-in because the dirty dishes aren't staring me down, the cats aren't meowing, and the siren call of the internet is silent (mostly because I haven't figured out how to access the coffeeshop network). I prefer to write in my library, alone, but the write-in shakes things up a bit. Besides, I'm still a novice and I've gotten some good advice there. There's write-ins in my region nearly every day. I've gone to three, and I'll probably go once this weekend.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:33:07 +0100

Yeah, this thread's pretty much been the only place I've hung out on the boards this year. I don't need to go looking for stuff to snark because some of you with more time on your hands than I have bring it over here and if I feel inclined, I can point and laugh. Or roll my eyes with you guys seeing the same sorts of complaints about the same stupid shit I remember from previous years doing NaNo.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:49:42 +0100

Yeah, I've only read sections other than this one and a couple threads in Lit Fic when there are links to them in this thread. Otherwise, I tend to go around to the different sections before November, and then not really want to take the time for it later, because it was hard to find anyone I felt connected to, and as a parent with a lot of kids and responsibilities, it's just not really my groove. This year, even less so, it all feels odder. This is the first year I've sustained interest in the forum through November, and this thread (but also a few other threads in this section) is the main reason for that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 07:40:54 +0100

[quote=zenken] If nano isn't 'fun' or a 'challenge' for you anymore, I don't think it's because of a website. [/quote] Right. If the forums are the really fun or motivating part? You've picked the wrong hobby.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:37:57 +0100

Well said. I'm still doing NaNo, but I ceased the social crap because the bigger that got, the less fun it became, and I have social anxiety issues and other stuff to do which is more pressing than making my way into the city to pay for crappy overpriced food and see people carrying on like a bunch of yahoos. That doesn't mean I don't get to write 50k in November, though. I'm hating on the stupid rah rah bullshit that surrounds NaNoWriMo, but I can avoid that. Writing doesn't have to be a group activity, and NaNo isn't a team sport. (Oh god, unless there are wordcount wars, and the less said about that, the better.) If you need friends to do an activity with, go shopping or join roller derby or something.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Jessindistress — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:28:52 +0100

Oh god. I tried reading that. Too much teal deer. And... rambling off-topic. I thought part of NaNo was to not take it insanely seriously: no one' s holding a gun to people's heads to do this, are they? Or am I missing something?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Incorporal — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:17:39 +0100

Pissed Off Cynics should be the name of the entire forum. That would be awesome. In fact, wouldn't it be great if they renamed all of them? I suggest: Happy-Clappy Sparkly Vampire Teens Angsty Zombie Teens PoC Old People Anyone Else

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:15:59 +0100

[quote=Jessindistress] If you need friends to do an activity with, go shopping or join roller derby or something. [/quote] I saw 'Whip It' and I think I want to watch women beat the crap out of each other for fun. Maybe when I get back to the States next year.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:52:54 +0100

[quote=rosymamacita] There are definitely more teens that when I started Nano in 2006. I feel two ways about this. 1. Yay for kids expressing themselves and writing books! Yay for kids finding a passion, being creative and staying away from self destructive habits! Yay for kids loving stories, books and words! Yay for a generation of readers and writers! Go kids! You rock! Keep it up! 2. Get off my lawn! [/quote] I've used texting in my novel since it's pervasive in our culture, but I've seen people talk about cutting and pasting whole FB/IM conversations into their novel. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Most dialogue has some basis in a conversation or small story you have encountered. At the same time it's not an interpretation or interpolation of the conversation you've had; it's completely airdropped in without modification, so at least half of the dialogue is not your material. I guess it matters how exactly it fits into your story. Teens writing made me think of how some people think about word count vs. story count. I agree they should be reading and writing. I can see why my grandparents looked at me oddly when I was a teen. You don't know anything but you think you know everything, when the reality is that you know something which is closer to nothing.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:16:00 +0100

[quote=rosymamacita] I feel two ways about this. 1. Yay for kids expressing themselves and writing books! Yay for kids finding a passion, being creative and staying away from self destructive habits! Yay for kids loving stories, books and words! Yay for a generation of readers and writers! Go kids! You rock! Keep it up! 2. Get off my lawn! [/quote] I love the kid-enthusiasm. It's the kid-petulance and the kid-whimpering I could do without. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:53:44 +0100

I'm the ML of my own region. I have pretty good write-ins. It's just me and my iPad. ;)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:55:00 +0100

With no laptop this year, I'm suffering a wee bit of O. Henryish irony, in that the near-daily write-ins here are quite good for writing; encouraging and friendly without being too crazy or demanding, as opposed to the unorganized, infrequent awkward ones in my old region, which also skewed younger. I went to one with a notebook and pen and got a little writing done. I tried one last week with my Kindle Fire and just couldn't zone in. I might try one more this weekend, back to pen and paper, because it's good to be around other adults, and also I'm learning about my new city.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:12:09 +0100

As long as they're focused on writing, I like write-ins. My wife and I reserved a room at a local library for each Tuesday night during November, and our write-ins are quiet and focused. The Boston region has write-ins that are like a fucking party in the primate hut, and we can't get anything done in that atmosphere. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 20:51:24 +0100

Good job on getting past 50k, Shem!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:51:22 +0100

Thanks for the props, man. I'm still plugging away, hoping to finish this weekend. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 02:11:53 +0100

Lol! I can see how being stationed in a war zone (did I infer that correctly?) would either lead one to be an extremely productive writer or a very unproductive writer. I'm glad that in your case it's extremely productive.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:32:52 +0100

It's tempting to ask an expert for an opinion on a subject you know very little about (Rhineland), but some experts aren't worth asking. This guy sounds like one of those; his opinion is laden with baggage. If you book is published and lands on the best sellers list, it'll probably be "too descriptive" or whatever. It's not about the book. It's about him.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:06:27 +0100

I am filled so deeply with bad puns today, hope my reply wasn't wasted on the ground.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:14:12 +0100

The thing that disgusts me most about this "My First Sex Scene" thread is that the author felt the need to post it at all. But nearing that on teh creepy register is just how fucking solemn the damn thing is. Maybe I'm getting old, but reading a graphic depiction of a sex act that's also supposed to have heavy thematic relevance makes me laugh out loud. And when it's not supposed to be funny, like when this nimrod is writing it, it makes me sick. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:27:51 +0100

No, I think you really drove the point home. I hope it sinks in. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Incorporal — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:24:54 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] Just please do not try to guilt me into giving more or people into giving who haven't. [/quote] Right? I give, if I get something out of a thing, or there's otherwise something in it for me. I stopped getting guilted into things when I became an adult. If I don't enjoy the sound of your busking, ain't no money going in that guitar case.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

girlboxer5 — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:25:56 +0100

It's even more annoying after I just dumped in $175 as a guest of another NaNo participant for the Night of Writing Dangerously. I've never given this much, ever. And I also bought a long-sleeved shirt. RAWR! What more do you want from me, Office of Letters and Light, my firstborn? *disclaimer: I don't actually have a firstborn. And I'm not making one for the NaNo office either. Not even for the super-huge and droopy halos they're giving out this year.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:13:04 +0100

I'm deeply concerned it might not come out like you wanted. Worst case is if it explodes too soon or the scene just goes limp.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:44:07 +0100

Instant divinity not your cup of tea? Feel like you need more than $10 to kick it with Mother Teresa in the afterlife?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:29:30 +0100

Ha Ha Ha. That's a good one.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:21:26 +0100

That's the thing with us POCs. Once we get onto a subject, it's almost impossible to get off. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:33:55 +0100

Most years before this year, making the budget stretch to do something for it caused a certain amount of guilt. You know, 10 dollars was <3 gallons of milk for the kids. Well, it's 4 gallons where I live now. Move 650 miles inland, instantly the bank account looks much better. (In this circumstance; for many people, the income would also go down a bit, though still not as much as the cost of living.) Anyway. I'm of two minds. You contribute to something you dig, you get a cute little prize, and you get to say, "yay, I'm part of something." It's sweet. But if you feel you can't, or know you shouldn't, you look at them and think, "well, these are sneetches with stars upon thars. I can't have one, but I still get to hang out on the beach and maybe no one will notice and they'll still hang out with me..." It's just my way, and I'm comfortable with others having it their way, but sensitive to the angst of juggling due dates.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:06:02 +0100

They sort of make you hate them. As a parallel, when I go to pay a bill and there is a splash screen after I log in? Look, I don't care if you want to give me boxes of free cookies. I came here to pay a bill. I automatically loathe and want nothing to do with whatever your ugly red font says. Back to the point. It got worse after Hurricane Katrina. Who didn't try to help in some way if they could? But suddenly and for the next three plus years, you could not walk out the front door without someone waving a plastic can in front of you wanting money for something. They were freaking everywhere, raising money for everything. There's been a lot less in the past couple of years, but man, at this point, if you darken the door of a grocery store with a donation can, I will not engage with you. So things like this place here. They do it positively, saying, "here's how you help." I'm optimistic enough to believe the halos are a little badge of honor, rather than specifically peer pressure. Because then they'd be like the others who are directly saying, "the world is doomed because of/without YOU." And I'd have no problem disagreeing with them about that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 14:51:46 +0100

Totally agree Zilla and Biblio. The more aggressive the campaigning, the less likely it is that I'll give. My husband and I are comfortable. We can afford to give. And so we do - to a wide variety of animal, medical, and misc charities and non-profits over the course of the year. We also donate blood. Sometimes I do it during a drive, especially if someone is offering matching funds, sometimes I don't. For instance, I always donate to a certain charity on the anniversary of a friend's death because it was a charity he supported. But even if it is a non-profit I support and have benefited from, like this one, if they use the wrong tactic with me then I'm not going to donate.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 20:17:39 +0100

I'm at 58K on the 26th here. I only have two scenes left that I outlined, and I'm running out of steam for the 70K I hoped to write in total. Since my wife is still plugging away for her 50K, maybe I'll dream up a couple more scenes. See what a swell guy I am? You folks were wrong about me. Some of you, anyway. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:04:13 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] The thing that disgusts me most about this "My First Sex Scene" thread is that the author felt the need to post it at all. But nearing that on teh creepy register is just how fucking solemn the damn thing is. Maybe I'm getting old, but reading a graphic depiction of a sex act that's also supposed to have heavy thematic relevance makes me laugh out loud. And when it's not supposed to be funny, like when this nimrod is writing it, it makes me sick. -Shem [/quote] I thought it was just forced and ho hum. The symbology was forced as well, but that's likely because he imagining a scene on camera vs. how something would occur in real life.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

robini — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 07:20:38 +0100

I'm just happy to find people discussing it here. I was disturbed and kept reading the comments. I did not know how to respond to such a thing. Everyone was trying so nicely to critique it and I could not go there. He posted his revision of it, too. Mind you, today, in my procrastination, I ran across an 18-year-old working on an "erotic novel". What the hell does an 18-year-old know about eroticism? I'm pretty impressed with myself, though. I spent nearly a whole month not making not saying a bitchy thing about anyone on any of these forums. I think. Maybe.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:54:14 +0100

I dug around and found that a few of the characters were missing some of their own scenes, so I've managed to put them together in context of the story. Finding these last 9k is going to be more of the same, looking for those missing links within the plot structure is going to be the rest of the work. Wait until Mrs. Shem finds out you're just writing 'All work and no play makes Shem a dull boy' for 10k....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Sun, 27 Nov 2011 04:26:18 +0100

I wish. Very nearly the only times I've sit down in the last 3 days are to drive between states, shovel food into my face-hole, or sleep.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 00:39:44 +0100

The last three days were a blur of family, cooking, cleaning and bourbon. Lots of bourbon.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:07:19 +0100

^ Me... two days of cooking alone >.< I had to try and catch up -yesterday-, I'm still behind... and now I'm sick on top of it. I have a NaNo buddy that blasted past 50k ages ago and is likely to hit 100k before times up. I'm not sure I should have allowed a 20-something, with no job, to be my buddy now.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrWriteon — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 04:18:23 +0100

Did both. My secret? Coffee and Monster! Also, the knowledge that sleep can always wait. Unless of course, I am properly hung over. Which I most definitely intend to be when Nano is over.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:34:23 +0100

Yeah, because how else could you handle all the family, cooking, and cleaning?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 03:38:01 +0100

Scotch? I guess...but that's about it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:09:53 +0100

[quote=wineandravens] ^ Me... two days of cooking alone >.< I had to try and catch up -yesterday-, I'm still behind... and now I'm sick on top of it. I have a NaNo buddy that blasted past 50k ages ago and is likely to hit 100k before times up. I'm not sure I should have allowed a 20-something, with no job, to be my buddy now. [/quote] There are more than a few nano-ers here that are out of work. That's a pretty painful prospect, but among all the job searching (if such was occurring, for a few are not actively seeking), writing 50,000 would be the easiest of things. Writing is work and if you're serious about it, it can become paid work. Yeah, good luck with your nano buddy. I'm pretty sure you'll make your 50k and keep trucking along. What your nano buddy will do after is something else entirely.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 14:53:37 +0100

I'm behind also. Cooking, kids, work, and also taking a whirl with some stupid virus. I've been one of the people who makes it to 100k. Once upon a time. I nearly killed myself to get there, too, since I had babies then, although no job. I was so burnt out by the end of nanowrimo that I was unable to write for 4 months. I'm still trying to come to grips with hovering right around 1667 words every day, more or less. I've never been ahead, but I've never been behind more than 3k or so. I have a couple of days where I can do some serious writing (although I'm trying to figure out how I can do it today, when both kids are OFF of school...it might have something to do with television and popcorn) and I know I can catch up and make the big 50k. I don't think 100k writers should make us feel bad about ourselves. It takes a lot, in some lives, for us to stick to it, to keep up with our measly 1667 words a day, which isn't really that measly. And maybe because we are not killing ourselves and ignoring all of our other commitments, maybe we'll be able to keep up the writing once November is over. Maybe finish the novel. Maybe revise it. Maybe craft it into a fine piece instead of just the rough draft of Nanowrimo. That's what I'm hoping for. And I have to NOT get all wrapped up in the hype in order to get there. Slow and steady.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 09:13:55 +0100

[quote=MrWriteon] Did both. My secret? Coffee and Monster! Also, the knowledge that sleep can always wait. Unless of course, I am properly hung over. Which I most definitely intend to be when Nano is over. [/quote] I prefer a good night's sleep to a half night of half assed writing. I did that for my second nano and most of what I wrote then was crap. A little caffeine or alcohol energizes or relaxes, respectively, which help the writing process. After a point, the lack of sleep turns you into a typing zombie.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:13:54 +0100

I need more coffee.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:36:52 +0100

Oh we were in the 'y u no employ' boat up until a month and a half ago. It took my husband over a year to get work! So believe me, I know what you're talking about. As for the buddy in question... it was just me grousing that it must be nice to have that kind of time to write and that's what I get for adding her (I adore her btw, we're friends from WoW). It's just a bit discouraging to see her blast past the word count like she does - and I'm the Writer! Dang collage kids with all that free time!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:43:00 +0100

[quote=zenken] I dug around and found that a few of the characters were missing some of their own scenes, so I've managed to put them together in context of the story. Finding these last 9k is going to be more of the same, looking for those missing links within the plot structure is going to be the rest of the work.[/quote] It's funny, because every year I do the same thing: I want to write more at the last minute, but I have odd blind spots as to where extra scenes could go. Later on, it seems painfully obvious where there were gaps to be filled. [quote]Wait until Mrs. Shem finds out you're just writing 'All work and no play makes Shem a dull boy' for 10k.... [/quote]Heh heh! We've been lobbing references to The Shining back and forth since Week 1. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 17:35:16 +0100

I think 50k is respectable. Some years you're going to get to 100k - there's just that much to write. Others, it's hard to sketch the story in 50k, either the story is smaller or it's not that fully formed just yet.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:46:35 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] Heh heh! We've been lobbing references to The Shining back and forth since Week 1. -Shem [/quote] Redrum! Redrum! Redrum! rah rah redrum...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:21:17 +0100

Go Jess and Matt! And everyone else on the verge! Let's beat those rah-rah-ers. (I am willfully ignoring the rah-rah-ness of this post.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 22:06:49 +0100

I wonder how much of that success rate comes from people who never start? I never did figure out how to disable my husband's account, so we just left his as word count zero, no activity.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:47:33 +0100

[quote=rosymamacita] Go Jess and Matt! And everyone else on the verge! Let's beat those rah-rah-ers. (I am willfully ignoring the rah-rah-ness of this post.) [/quote] LOL We can over-look it and blame the lapse of cynicism on lack of sleep and/or too much coffee.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:57:11 +0100

"Now, we're going to make a new rule." -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:40:29 +0100

I was trying not to say anything on this point, but you're exactly right. Their overhead far exceeds any acceptable proportion for a non-profit. And they're likely basing their numbers on their growth projections in terms of participants times the ratio of donors without playing it conservatively. I don't know that I will donate again next year after looking at how much of their money goes not toward library events and community programming, but to salaries and web costs that don't look to deliver efficiently. Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but does OLL even have a CFO? All good non-profits need financial guidance to keep them on the straight and narrow and I don't see that in their projections at a cursory glance. /business hat off

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:42:44 +0100

I think zero word count days are inevitable. But you are so close! At this point, I think you are more than justified in pulling out those wordcount tricks they talk about. Also, try validating your novel on the website. I was surprised to learn that the way the word count works here gained me about 300 words.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Burnt Sushi — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:27:10 +0100

Server switch = no edit button. That, or they want us to embrace the true spirit of NaNo. NO EDIT FOR YOU! JUST WRITE! GOGOGO. Or, you know, they forgot. I have a little pissed off rant about how if I can write 50k while running my own business, taking care of an uber clingy teething 4 month old, clean house and STILL cook dinner, why can't my other half be bothered to take care of the baby a few nights a week so I can write more? Oh right. Skyrim. I hate you Bethesda. I hate you sooooooo muchly much.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:06:13 +0100

[quote=bibliosylph] Why is there no edit button? If I donate ten dollars, can it go toward that? [/quote] $100,000 of donations goes towards an Edit button and Customize Forums feature. May not be ready before 2012 though.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:41:34 +0100

Yeah, that sucks. I hope your other half figures it out without too much nudging and hits over the head. I got into a real argument with the husband of a good friend once, because he referred to himself watching the kids as babysitting. In my book, if you're the father or the mother of a child, you don't babysit, you parent. Thankfully my hubby backed me up on that one.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:35:14 +0100

Okay, that's a pet peeve of mine, so I have to speak up. It ain't the game. It's the player. We're long time gamers in our house, but we still manage to be responsible adults. I understand the lure of a new game, but he needs to balance that with all his other responsibilities. The game is inanimate. It is your husband that is making the choice to play instead of take care of the baby.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:40:40 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] I got into a real argument with the husband of a good friend once, because he referred to himself watching the kids as babysitting. [/quote] GRRRRRRRRRRR@$%(^&%^#$%* I let a couple of my characters tell some of their backstory to others, so that cleaned things up for me this evening. Still gotta get to a point, though...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:27:55 +0100

Facepalm.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:36:41 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] One of the first articles on the list was a lengthy screed claiming that feeding boys or men tofu causes them to become homosexual. I mean... WTF??!! o.m.g. There is seriously scary stuff out there on teh interwebz. [/quote] Can you imagine how they got an article like that to the top of the list? /shakes head As far as the Soy... I developed the horrid Lactose Intolerance while preggy with son #3. Of course, I went to soy and I liked it. However, in about a year I developed a sensitivity to it that was worse than what the milk was doing to me! My son is not very girly however. So, I don't know about the validly of that article. Give him a few years... lol.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:20:00 +0100

I think it's been established that there's absolutely no correlation between homosexuality and diet, and that the only thing that can cause men to become homosexual is overexposure to brassy show tunes. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

chinalizard — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:54:14 +0100

*bursts into laughter* Maaaan, that's craziness! XD I imagine that article's so popular because when someone hears about it, they just HAVE to go read it for themselves! LOL!!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:27:14 +0100

I heard that when I was pregnant and drinking tons of soy milk. I was so freaked that I asked my OB about it. He said we probably don't know everything there is to know about soy, but not to worry and just try to have everything in moderation. Although, my daughter is ver, very girly. Bum bah baaaah!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:22:01 +0100

Ha! My husband is getting into the Zelda game (I must admit, I found an hour or two to play myself), but he still managed to take the kid out for a Dad and daught day. He loves that stuff, though. Dad and daught stuff.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:45:15 +0100

congratulations! I'll bet it feels nice to be done. (I hit minimal word count but I'm not "done"--still lots to tell).

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:17:24 +0100

Congrats! I hit my 100k goal for the month last night but it looks like I won't be finishing the actual first draft this month like I'd hoped. I could probably wrap up the climax with the main antagonist in another 10k or so, but it would be rushed and would leave more threads dangling than I'd like, so I'm aiming for 125k as a finished rough draft, which will likely take me into the weekend or next week to knock out. But the key connection to tie this book's main conflict into the next one and how to cram it into the lead-up to the climax just dropped into my head while I typed this, so yay for that. And since this is the cynics thread.. hrm... Damned television writers' strike of '07, teaching networks that people will tolerate 'mid-season breaks' so that I have to wait until February for more Walking Dead.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:32:11 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] congratulations! I'll bet it feels nice to be done. (I hit minimal word count but I'm not "done"--still lots to tell). [/quote] I know exactly how you feel. I wrote my first nano 50k and wow I was NOT done, but I had the ending in mind and skipped a ton. I was pretty burnt out after that nano, having never written so much in such a short time in my life. Having done it a few times, I'm getting better at pushing plot forward, writing dialogue, etc. Time will tell if my writing is actually any good, but it's a start.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:50:12 +0100

Congratulations! Yeah, my story is little less than half done,

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:27:24 +0100

Yikes. Scrivener was pretty good in that it usually undercounts so that I had about an extra 130 words or so. I think that has to do with counting dashed-words as two vs. one or something. Scrivener has been pretty great for how I write (at least for nano). I used nano to test run writing a long novel in 2008 and I've been using it ever since. Writers do tend to stick to things that work.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:04:37 +0100

Oh, I've had that happen. Stupid validator.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:26:27 +0100

I think I would be tempted to fill in the remaining 1000 words with LA LA LA LA LA LA LA just because it pissed me off so much.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:20:37 +0100

[quote=MrBadgerPants] And since this is the cynics thread.. hrm... Damned television writers' strike of '07, teaching networks that people will tolerate 'mid-season breaks' so that I have to wait until February for more Walking Dead. [/quote] I was ticked off too, but at this point all the main characters are becoming such drama queens I'm kinda rooting for the zombies now. Feast, zombies, FEAST!!!!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:29:34 +0100

Yes, I have the advantage of writing the second half of a book that's already 57k. I don't think I can write a 100k novel in 30 days, but i know I can write 67k now. Perhaps next year with a significant amount of planning and preparation I can write 75k or more. Congratulations to you guys!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 22:03:41 +0100

Well. Since it's the cynics thread? I am relieved that I am not going to be forced to ignore it until February. It's like a vacation.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:25:21 +0100

Yeah, but even when it's crappy it's still one of the best things on TV at the moment. Well, it was. Grr.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:38:01 +0100

How is it different from, say, Word? The last nano I did, in 2009, I used a combo of WordPad and Google Docs, which sucked. This year it's all MS Word all the time, which has been nice (well, I say nice; it's been unobtrusive - the only time I have to actively do anything besides smacking keys to make with the letters is inserting a page break and centering my chapter heading numbers, which was actually a little annoying in that Word auto-indents new paragraphs once you start doing it, but stops when you stop doing it, and I don't want my numbers indented past the center). Something where I could have, like, a side-bar with bookmarks or a note-pad for keeping track of references would be nice. About 60 thousands words in I realized that I really should have been doing that in a different document from the start of book 1 but decided that I was too lazy to start now. So I still have to page back up or do a search to remember what color people's hair is or what street so and so got murdered on.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:07:38 +0100

Scrivener has all that and more. One of the things I love most about it is that it is _so_ easy to move pieces around and play with different orderings. I also love the notes feature--I used that a lot this past month--and the ability to store "research" docs in the same file so they are right there when needed. Really there's too much awesome stuff in Scrivener to describe. I highly recommend downloading a trial. Can't hurt and you might love it. I used it to write my dissertation and it was fantastic.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:25:52 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] New Rant: People who don't understand sarcasm and decide that when you're joking around with a friend on Facebook, they need to come in and tell you to stop being bitchy as if they're your mother when they clearly don't understand you or the context of your relationship with the mutual friend. Dumbasses. /rant [/quote] You mean folks who don't understand the subtle and beautiful nuances of affection in smack talk? I get it too. I say "Suck my balls, douche nozzle" to my friend, and certain Facebook people completely miss the fact it actually means "I love you".

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 00:47:33 +0100

I am cruel to such people, in that circumstance, and also when people just feel the need to turn a perfectly satisfying conversation to their own dull context. It's the only way. Depending on my mood, they maybe don't understand how cruel I am being, because I am very, very good at the art form. But then if they just start trolling me or us, well, dismissed.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:40:34 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] New Rant: People who don't understand sarcasm and decide that when you're joking around with a friend on Facebook, they need to come in and tell you to stop being bitchy as if they're your mother when they clearly don't understand you or the context of your relationship with the mutual friend. Dumbasses. /rant [/quote] It's the internet. If you can't determine sarcasm by now, you really shouldn't be here. It's also an indicator that people you know on FB don't actually KNOW you as a person.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:17:43 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] Scrivener has all that and more. One of the things I love most about it is that it is _so_ easy to move pieces around and play with different orderings. I also love the notes feature--I used that a lot this past month--and the ability to store "research" docs in the same file so they are right there when needed. Really there's too much awesome stuff in Scrivener to describe. I highly recommend downloading a trial. Can't hurt and you might love it. I used it to write my dissertation and it was fantastic. [/quote] Nicely done on your dissertation, Carrie. I'm looking forward to using Scrivener on this (now huge) novel file now that I've merged the two parts together. It's going to take some work, but I feel like I have a large block of marble to work into a sculpture rather than an idea of a sculpture and no marble.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

wineandravens — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:48:52 +0100

I used it for the first time this year, on that nifty trail they gave us. I'm in love with the thing! I swear I don't know how I did without it. It's nice to know you can write with wild abandon and rearrange the scenes/chapters/etc later. The way you can add notes to each section makes the dreaded rewrite much less scary too.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:55:18 +0100

People who don't understand sarcasm must think I'm a total bitch.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:32:19 +0100

[quote=snappyssidekick] People who don't understand sarcasm must think I'm a total bitch. [/quote] I find your lack of WINNING disturbing. 1,423 words please. No bullshit.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Mnemonicer — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:33:01 +0100

But you so special?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:35:48 +0100

I think it clashes with the fuschia winner bar.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

heavy hedonist — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:07:58 +0100

[quote=bibliosylph] Man, I really didn't want the halo. I thought if I said anonymous they'd leave it off. And yellow is totally not my color. [/quote] But at least it's not looped around your eye-- and i can't find another pic that fits. I'm not fond of yellow myself, although I am currently blonde and digging it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 06:57:50 +0100

It does. It's that they're opposites, but not in the good way. ;-) Mnemonicer, I think it's just that you'respecial. (I realize I have stopped making sense.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:49:27 +0100

[quote=zenken] It's the internet. If you can't determine sarcasm by now, you really shouldn't be here. It's also an indicator that people you know on FB don't actually KNOW you as a person. [/quote] In my case, that's fairly true but it's also a case of those odd folks who just sort of walk through life not letting anything in if it doesn't fit into their tidy image of what the world and people SHOULD be, if you know what I mean. They're a little bit loopy, a little bit emotionally handicapped, and will basically just pretend it didn't happen if you do anything they don't like or can't handle. You know which kind of folks I'm talking about? I'd unfriend them but I think their constant state of denial is kind of fascinating. It's like they take denial and make it into an art form or something. Oh, and they like Farmville a lot.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:48:23 +0100

It's all that winning. Novel writing purple bars and halos and all. You don't need to strive anymore. You have it all, you don't need to make sense.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:08:27 +0100

[quote=rosymamacita] It's all that winning. Novel writing purple bars and halos and all. You don't need to strive anymore. You have it all, you don't need to make sense. [/quote] Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you cynic, you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:47:14 +0100

I wonder if the "5 free paperback copies" winners' deal has a word-count limit? I don't think it's physically possible to put a 2000 page book into a paperback binding without it falling apart.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:54:09 +0100

Whaaaaaat? I'm not so cynical I couldn't entertain the idea of someone getting up to 500,000. I could go there, I could entertain that. 1,000,000? That's just goofy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:54:35 +0100

I wish there were a "funny" button.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

robini — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:14:57 +0100

What is with her bio? Such an angry young person...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:32:28 +0100

I'm trying to be cynical about her, but she actually makes me sad. She's a very troubled young lady.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:29:28 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] I don't know whether anybody cares, but the OCD queen of Moscow, Idaho clocked a million words on the dot. And incidentally, I'm Lady Nelson. -Shem [/quote] Lady Nelson, Bravo on your sex change. Did you know that it's possible to write 1 million (that's with an M) words about nothing at all. People do it all the time. It's called a blog. It used to be called a diary. To be fair, she's probably not writing a blog, so I apologize to all the bloggers out there. And the novelists. And the monkeys.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

syaffolee — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:48:18 +0100

Just wanted to pop in and say hi! And that I'm reading this thread. :) I've been around since 2001 so I've seen pretty much everything on the boards--and grumped about it--including complaints about people with outrageous word counts. Man, you should have seen the epic gnashing of teeth and cries of cheating when the boards and word count meters were first instigated in 2002. Sure, it's discouraging, especially if you compare it to your own, but writing is an intensely personal endeavor. Who cares what anyone else is doing? The only thing that really matters is your own novel. In her defense (obviously since I'm her co-ML), I'd say that she's really dedicated to completing something once she set a goal. She told me last year that she would try to make a million words this year because she had more time. Plus, she's an incredibly fast typist. And if you're wondering why she's at exactly a million and not more or less, it's because the counter is limited to a million. Yes, she's a real person. And I would be mad, too, if I were constantly barraged the entire month with accusations. (I wouldn't say as much on my profile, but to each their own.) If you think I'm taking this whole thread the wrong way, just let me know. :) I've been known to completely misinterpret things, especially since on the internet, you can't really see anyone's mannerisms when they're making a comment. All I can say is that I kind of feel that it's not sporting to pick on one particular person. It would be more in spirit of this thread if the complaint was about overachievers in general.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 03:32:17 +0100

Oh, wow.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:17:34 +0100

I know people like that. The strange thing is though, that most of these pigheaded beauties can say what they want and other people just make excuses for them, call them quite a character and not to be taken seriously. As soon as I say something in defense, I am called evil or mean spirited. There is just no winning with these kinds.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:18:51 +0100

[quote=LittleMissZilla] In my case, that's fairly true but it's also a case of those odd folks who just sort of walk through life not letting anything in if it doesn't fit into their tidy image of what the world and people SHOULD be, if you know what I mean. They're a little bit loopy, a little bit emotionally handicapped, and will basically just pretend it didn't happen if you do anything they don't like or can't handle. You know which kind of folks I'm talking about?[/quote] Hey those sound like all the rah rah rah people....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:24:56 +0100

[quote=LittleMissZilla] Whaaaaaat? I'm not so cynical I couldn't entertain the idea of someone getting up to 500,000. I could go there, I could entertain that. 1,000,000? That's just goofy. [/quote] Well you get a 1,000,000 if you take the first half of the book and write it all backwards so that you start at the beginning at the end. Plus it's only half the writing if you just have a programming script to do it for you.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:05:36 +0100

[quote=Scratchingcat] I know people like that. The strange thing is though, that most of these pigheaded beauties can say what they want and other people just make excuses for them, call them quite a character and not to be taken seriously. As soon as I say something in defense, I am called evil or mean spirited. There is just no winning with these kinds. [/quote] Sounds a bit like textbook NPD, and no, there is no winning with those kinds. I grew up with loads of the fekkers, they can seriously be like cult leaders. They gather followers and 'Yes men' who have such weak constitutions they are more than happy to worship the NPD person as if they're a celebrity. If anyone comes along and challenges the NPD person with criticism or an opposing viewpoint, they very often send their flying monkeys in to attack (or just take it upon themselves accuse the critic of being crazy, immature, uncouth, or what have you, preferably in front of others to heighten the humiliation prospects as much as possible). They're just buckets of fun, especially on Facebook when they're upset about something and the flying monkeys aren't around to congregate and comment on their status. They wind up talking to themselves, getting angrier and angrier until they delete their status an hour later and make a new one pretending the other one didn't happen. Creepy and unsettling, yes, but also kinda like watching a freak show you didn't have to pay admission for.

Re: Yarny

Lyria2 — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:35:55 +0100

I'm getting scrivener. I saw a demo of it and was impressed. Dec 5 can't come soon enough.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:23:09 +0100

[quote=rosymamacita] I'm trying to be cynical about her, but she actually makes me sad. She's a very troubled young lady. [/quote] It's not very symmetric to have 1000000 words. I would've gone for 1000001 or 1111111 or even 1010101. Not OCD enough, in my estimation.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:30:07 +0100

just guessing here--is NPD Narcissistic Personality Disorder? There's plenty of them in my life too. Real doozies. They're related to me, so difficult to get rid of. But I don't do facebook, thank the stars.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:55:33 +0100

[quote=zenken] It's not very symmetric to have 1000000 words. I would've gone for 1000001 or 1111111 or even 1010101. Not OCD enough, in my estimation. [/quote] Yeah, because if you go with '0's and '1's, you can pretend it's actually some binary code that reveals the title of the novel, but only to people smart enough and gifted enough to figure it out. That has more panache.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:39:09 +0100

Whaaaaat? Can I just cut and paste 50K twenty times and go have a sandwich? Can I do that please?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:48:50 +0100

Where's my like button? I need a like button... And to be fair to the Moscow Queen, my mom (who lives near the town) told me there was a recent murder-suicide at the University. You know, that same old sad story about a professor sleeping with a student. So maybe she's just afraid to have a social life? Because, those apparently lead to murder in the sticks. Or there's really some crazy mutation in the water...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

rosymamacita — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:06:20 +0100

ITA. Get kicking, Snappy.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:52:26 +0100

I would give you pushups, but since I don't know what you plan to do with them, forget it. I've been out of the military for nearly a year now, and plan to never do another pushup so long as I live...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

MrBadgerPants — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:27:08 +0100

We don't completely suck, do we? I am saddened that I didn't finish my novel by the month mark. I am simultaneously ready to be done with it and anxious to find out what happens next. But once it's done I'm with you; I'm taking at least a month off before I go back and start revision.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

CarrieClothwright — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:34:29 +0100

will you take squats and lunges instead? no? Well, it was worth a try. 15K sounds fun. Running with the French Foreign Legion might be nice. But across the desert? Wow. You have my respect and admiration. I hope there's plenty of water along the way.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:40:29 +0100

[quote=zenken]I'm off to go running. I have a 15k run across the desert with the French Foreign Legion next week! [/quote] Oh sure. I might not be the big tough desert-runner you are, amigo, but these dishes aren't going to do themselves. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

annabelle2024 — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:59:20 +0100

I'll take the alcohol. Can my husband do the pushups since that's more up his alley? But if I really have to, I can manage a few.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

vNichols — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 03:36:16 +0100

Aww. That post makes me feel warm and loved. Like Sting at a massage oil convention.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:39:30 +0100

Already did, but since you offered I think I'll have another...... I was sorry to see MattNot did not cross the line. Then I looked up his stats and saw he hasn't updated since Thanksgiving. I hope nothing untoward happened.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

robini — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:11:23 +0100

It depends on the desert. It's perfect running weather in the Sonora! I suspect it is the same in most northern hemisphere deserts!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:50:12 +0100

[quote=CarrieClothwright] will you take squats and lunges instead? no? Well, it was worth a try. 15K sounds fun. Running with the French Foreign Legion might be nice. But across the desert? Wow. You have my respect and admiration. I hope there's plenty of water along the way. [/quote] Squat and lunges accepted. It does sound pretty cool and I admit I never thought about running across a desert before, but here I am. They have a video of the run on YouTube. As far as being northern, only 11 degrees from the equator isn't much, but since the run will be at dawn, it'll be over before the real heat of the day hits.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:53:17 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] Oh sure. I might not be the big tough desert-runner you are, amigo, but these dishes aren't going to do themselves. -Shem [/quote] Wash the hell out of those dishes, Lady Nelson!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Shem-the-Penman — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:09:10 +0100

Actually, I didn't mean to single whatsername out as anything more than the most egregious example of why professional writers characterize all Wrimos as overmedicated shit hoses. Some of us care about learning how to write, and practicing to become better writers. Some of us have put a lot of thought into what we're writing, and we're not just on a word count joyride. This thread is just the safe haven for those of us who are a little embarrassed at the way the quantity-over-quality aspect of NaNo has degenerated into quantity-and-more-quantity. Writing a million words in a month is nothing to be proud of. It's like the writing equivalent of eating a hundred Peeps in fifteen minutes. Don't take it personal. -Shem

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

robini — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:08:14 +0100

Well... while i was more disturbed by the bio than by the word count (which I attributed to an over achiever with OCD) (and I did not know about the word count limit), I don't care much about word count. 1 mil would give me plenty to work with, had I done it. I also know that I get quite frustrated when I write something that is not pertinent to my story and is, in addition, lacking in poetics. Ideally, I want both at all times. I would be really impressed with myself if I wrote 1 million story-significant, aesthetically outstanding words with emotional resonance in one month. I know of no one who has. If this person did write something that will blow my mind, I will excited to read it.. I, personally, am quite happy with what I've produced this month. I did not finish a draft of my novel, but I am learning about my characters--that takes time for me--and what they can do to forward the story in an honest way. It feels natural and maybe a little romantic, in the way it takes us to know a new person and devdelop a relationship in real life. I'm excited about the little world I'm creating on my pages. I am not comparing my word count to another person's. I don't feel I need to because what I am building is not particularly "clever" or "smart". It is story about people that seems real to me... and I think it will to others. My response is not out of jealously, as you imply. Nor do I believe others' here are. It doesn't matter how fast I type--I will not write 1 million words in a month that require deep thought or emotion. My dedication is not one that requires quantity from a creative endeavor. Please do not call into question the dedication of the posters on this site. Please don't call into question our typing skills or our academic achievements. Just because we don't announce to the world our every success, it does not mean we don't have them. In the mean time, "Fuck you world!" is not something to which I respond well. Nor is an all-caps declaration of attending grad school. I hear way too much from 20-somethings who think they are are brilliant because they got good grades and got into grad school. I just want to be around good writers who care about what they write and how they manage to reveal a truth of some sort. I don't care to what educational level they have ascended or how committed they are to their word count goal. I only care that they have heart and a good sense of aesthetics. (And spelling, sentence structure, and grammar.) Please don't discount my literary skepticism of anyone who writes a gigantic amount in a simple month and then tells everyone that she hates them. (I nearly emailed her to see how she was doing and to encourage her to understand that what others say really has no bearing, but you've stopped me.)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:45:48 +0100

[quote=syaffolee] If you think I'm taking this whole thread the wrong way, just let me know. :) I've been known to completely misinterpret things, especially since on the internet, you can't really see anyone's mannerisms when they're making a comment. All I can say is that I kind of feel that it's not sporting to pick on one particular person. It would be more in spirit of this thread if the complaint was about overachievers in general. [/quote] I'm neither going to apologize nor say it's not personal. There's no reason. I haven't emailed said author nor have I commented on her own thread about her performance. I don't take her reported performance personally nor do I care how she feels about what I think. I concede your co-ML is a fast typist, but I take to task that it's quality writing and I won't be interested in reading it. Clearly NaNoWriMo is below her challenge level. By and large I don't have a problem with overachievers; I've commented my threshold for bullshit already in this thread. For the most part, the POC folks who've commented in her thread have been civil and straightforward. Long diatribes about overachievement are welcome, unless you're trying to assert your ML status in a forum you do not have ML rights to. That I have a problem with. Carry on and except for the folks in Hawaii (who have 15 minutes left), NaNoWriMo 2011 is over.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:30:53 +0100

I politely asked her if she'd talk about why she does it and she never answered. I thought that wasn't sporting, but I do tend to think my peculiar way. I can't imagine really caring about whatever else you're on about, though, to be honest. We're gonna continue to be protective of our cynic's corner, I can tell you that.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:51:35 +0100

[quote=annabelle2024] I'll take the alcohol. Can my husband do the pushups since that's more up his alley? But if I really have to, I can manage a few. [/quote] You can even do 20 or even 40 oz. curls, if you like. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:13:29 +0100

Ooh, bummer. But on the other hand, zenkin's is kinda cool, so maybe next year we should plan ahead for what we want inside that angelic glow...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:36:53 +0100

I tend to agree with Shem here. I see plenty of people around here with word counts twice as high as mine, but not once have I gotten the impression anyone here is gratuitously tapping away to get a big fat word count beneath their name. They're more concerned with expressing themselves than increasing a word count. That I can respect, and it makes me want to see if I can challenge myself to even more next year. Still, if pushing for that higher word count would mean turning a blind eye to putting real thought into what I'm writing, then fuck it. I'll respect my own limits. You say she's a 'fast typist', well that's great but can she write anything worth reading? Does she have ideas and an imagination? Sorry if I'm skeptical about someone so defensively rattling off a list of achievements on their profile that way, it doesn't sound like she has any grasp on what the creative spirit of this thing could ideally be. Fair enough, it takes all kinds, but I'd hate to think of young people looking at that and aspiring to be 'fast typists' instead of nurturing their creativity. She just seems way too distracted with what I personally consider to be the wrong thing in terms of this personal challenge, and I just can't respect it.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Darbrashelle — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:14:52 +0100

I also have to agree with Shem. This was my first NaNo experience, and I found it exceedingly difficult. Maybe the fact that it was my first time caused me to balk in disbelief at the outragous word counts while I struggled on with mine. Or maybe it was just plain old jealousy that I couldn't keep up with all these young kids running word circles around me. What I do know is people don't become PoC's without a reason. Somewhere in life, we learned what it was like to be kicked while we were down, and that rose colored glasses deserved to be stomped on. Our way of dealing with this was to find a sense of humor, appreciate sarcasm and figure out what works and what doesn't. I have no idea what any of these overachiever's personal lives are like. And to be honest, I don't care. She wanted a million words? Good for her. She reached her goal. As for me, I have learned that: not every idea that flies through my thoughts are gems; personal challenges define me better than any that someone else set for me; there are situations where the best thing you can do is not say a single word; and that when you find your face in the mud from your last bout of life experience sometimes the best thing you can do is stop and listen to the advice you just gave yourself.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Incorporal — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:49:55 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] Actually, I didn't mean to single whatsername out as anything more than the most egregious example of why professional writers characterize all Wrimos as overmedicated shit hoses. Some of us care about learning how to write, and practicing to become better writers. Some of us have put a lot of thought into what we're writing, and we're not just on a word count joyride. This thread is just the safe haven for those of us who are a little embarrassed at the way the quantity-over-quality aspect of NaNo has degenerated into quantity-and-more-quantity. Writing a million words in a month is nothing to be proud of. It's like the writing equivalent of eating a hundred Peeps in fifteen minutes. Don't take it personal. -Shem [/quote] Thank you. Some of us are more concerned with telling the story than "reaching xxxxx number of words". The only thing "discouraging" about someone claiming to have written 33,000 words every day for a month, is the fact that people laud it like it takes some sort of genius talent to move your fingers quickly over a keyboard. Sure you can fiddle away on a violin like a madwoman, but what about the melody?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:52:02 +0100

[quote=Mnemonicer] Dear Cynics, Zenken is right. We need a post-nano group to continue griping about the world. I'm going to miss you guys as I keep hacking away on this thing. Who's going to help me procrastinate in the future? [/quote] Hey did you forget to validate your novel?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:58:46 +0100

Draco dormiens nunquam titilandus!

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

LittleMissZilla — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:22:01 +0100

[quote=snappyssidekick] Yes yes. And can we please make some sort of rule that if some Polly-Anna tries to come in here and explain to us why we should give those kids who won't stay off our lawn a break and how if we just looked at it from their side we would stop shaking our fists, then they will get their fingers shocked. Or we could just put up a sign that says "Don't Poke the Tigers". Either the finger shocking thing or the sign. Either way. [/quote] What if said Polly-Anna agreed not to try forcing anyone to see it from the eyes of the kiddie-winks, but reserved the right to see their side of it herself? Would she get kicked out? Not that I AM that Polly-Anna or anything, just generally asking in a completely neutral, general information sort of way and stuff...... Like, I could care LESS but I mean, like, for OTHER people....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

bibliosylph — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 15:17:58 +0100

Depends. Is it defensive and emotional, or just pointing out some stuff that might or might not be relative to the general griping? People are free to do either, but if they're gonna, for example, champion a NaNo a day as something we should all clap our hands at instead of look upon with a squinty eye, they might be asking for it... :-)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:54:12 +0100

[quote=vNichols] Aww. That post makes me feel warm and loved. Like Sting at a massage oil convention. [/quote] Kind of like a towel snap at the end of a massage sting, Sting the singer, or Sting the hobbit sword?

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:29:36 +0100

Um, we're talking 1984 Dune Sting, right? Not current Sting? Still cute, but.... I had heard that the original plan for Dune was to have Sting do a nude scene and all I could think of was that would have been one hell of a developmental moment for pre-teen me.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

robini — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:16:07 +0100

I didn't realize that was so long. No wonder all the youngsters in my grad program hate me...

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Lyria2 — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:25:25 +0100

I'd like that. I haven't written a damn thing since I crossed 50k and got the winner cert. I just plain needed a break. But my novel is not done, not by a long stretch. In fact, I'm only approaching the end of Part 1. Long story short, my husband and I co-wrote. We ended up with a lot of duplicate scenes, so I think by the time we are done writing and revising, Part One will be down to 30k. There's 3 parts, so that is a 90k word length novel, which is pretty standard for sword and sorcery fantasy. (Though we have surprisingly little sorcery in here.) Doing NaNoWriMo consumed all my free time in November, and I don't like that. I think it was the kick in the pants we needed to get this story out, and now that I have so much written I think we'll be more likely to keep writing it. I'll probably do it again next year, but for Dec-Oct, I want to back off a little. I think if we work on the novel together one day a week and then write independently one day a week each, I think we'll be able to make progress while still having a life outside writing and work. I'd love to continue getting periodic injections of pissed off cynicism from you all.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:46:44 +0100

[quote=Shem-the-Penman] It's official. Overachieving is a drug! No kidding. It makes you babble incoherently, it gives you an inflated sense of self-worth, it makes you incapable of doing anything worthwhile or being receptive to valid criticism, and it's something we shouldn't encourage people to do in lieu of genuine creative effort. It's no substitute for inspiration. -Shem [/quote] It sound like a cross between cocaine and ecstasy. I had to laugh at the 'Spending eight to ten hours a day writing wasn't a hard thing for me.' I'd think as a seasoned/professional writer, 8-10 hours of quality writing would be hard without continual applied effort and practice. 8-10 hours of writing would be possible, but it would take some better in situ critiquing to produce something reasonable. I guess graduate school in Moscow, ID isn't very taxing. I had to laugh at the 'having 8-10 hours a day to write' comment.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:49:06 +0100

I say keep going if the story is still working toward an ending in your mind's eye. If not, then I think that's the time to stop or at least give yourself some time to think about the way forward.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

zenken — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 17:58:52 +0100

[quote=Raquelin] Am I allowed to post here and say that nothing makes me antisocial like NaNo, or will y'all eat me alive? 'Cause it's true. By week four I just want to be left alone to my little corner, maybe a few hard-at-work people, and get the freaking novel out. But if it would make you feel better, by all means, eat me alive. Congrats on all the purple bars. That's my favorite color. [/quote] That's usually because you want to go and live in the world and story you're writing. Distractions are inevitable without people adding it on top the normal daily routine. We're cynics, not cannibals. Zombie Roller Blade Girl might chew on you for a bit, though. It's best to just grit your teeth and let her finish. She'll hang onto you like an attack dog, but she'll get tired after a while. :)

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

snappyssidekick — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 18:26:45 +0100

Depends...how much ketchup do you have? Just kidding. Anti-social is our shtick. Eating alive is not. Come on in....

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:04:41 +0100

Agreed. Also an excerpt without context isn't going to tell you much about the whole novel anyway.

Re: Pissed Off Cynics

Scratchingcat — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 19:06:25 +0100

As far as I know, this site stays up until the end of October next year. Then they scrap everything and start new for the next Nano. So, if you guys keep coming back here, I will as well.