Writing with intent to edit http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504 J.P. My dear fellow writers, this group seems more likely to actually to do something beyond attending the after party once November is over, so I thought I'd ask here. What have you found works well for you as you edit your nano manuscript? Some of the more obvious holes in my own draft can be fixed by running spell checker and doing the replace all for when I changed names on day four. Other issues like the flatness of some of my characters are going to require much more significant work. My hope remains that while fixing characterization issues will be a nano level of effort, my initial draft will remain a useful skeleton for the next iteration of the manuscript. I am still writing the initial draft, but I have a better idea of what my story really is now than I did when I outlined it back in October. I have been essentially following my MC around as she goes through the main story line. There are significant secondary lines that I could jump back to and write now or wait to add later. I am getting to the climax where how those secondary lines have developed really matters. If you have ever written this kind of story, what way of writing it has worked well for you? Sat, 19 Nov 2011 10:10:35 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_767314 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_767314 LittleMissZilla I haven't finished a NaNo yet (still hoping this will be my first year) but I've dealt with finished manuscripts before. I don't outline anything I do, and it sounds like your process might be a bit similar to mine. I tend to write in waves and passes. First wave is the initial draft, then I pass through that draft and tweak it, then I make another pass and tweak it again. Then once I've made all the connections I really want to make and get as close to my final vision of it that I'm ever going to get, I polish it up (this has involved months of straight up editing, abandoning it to get distance and objectivity, then returning to re-read and edit some more. I personally had to learn how to be patient and not rush). My stories tend to revolve around people and how they face changes in life, I tend to populate my stories with large casts of characters. I try to avoid making the whole thing this tidy little package where everything works out perfectly at the end like a movie, but I do tend to put my characters through a lot of experiences that mirror things which came before, to give the character new objectivity or to show how the character has changed, stuff like that. I tend to picture the whole thing like a network of brain synapses, all the experiences/chapters are individual cells spread out over a network, and once I get everything in order it makes the connections fire off. I basically write in bits and pieces, and in truth I always wind up with an auxiliary document file of "DELETED SCRAPS" or "CUT PIECES" full of stuff I expurgate right out, and this is on top of full chapter drafts I just don't keep in. This way of doing it drives my friend crazy, she is a staunch outliner and she thinks I would save myself so much effort by planning more. I can't write that way, though, it just goes against my own intrinsic nature (I have the mind of an improviser and my strengths kick in when I make it all up on the fly). I guess it DOES take longer the way I do it, but I feel my stories are better for it (plus, the stuff I take out usually finds a new home somewhere else anyway, tis not wasted creativity at all! haha) So I think your initial draft can definitely be a useful skeleton. In fact, someone on one of these boards recently mentioned they consider their NaNo to just be one giant outline, and I related to that immediately. I started out this year going after a beginning, middle, AND end but at this point, by the time I reach 50k it's only going to be a drop in the ocean. But I'm forming that skeleton too, and NaNo is really serving to just get me back into writing discipline and focus. I've actually already written a little bit of my 'original' ending and I can already see that it's going to change in the future. The plot has taken on a life of it's own now and things are happening that I did not originally intend but I think it's working out better. I will have to expurgate some stuff, but a lot of it I can just tweak by giving dialogue to someone else, putting certain scenes at a different point in the story, or just expounding upon what is already there so it foreshadows better. For me it's definitely the mental image of one of those houses on the show "Hoarders". I start off with this massive mess of stuff, then I pare it down and clean it up, then it gets more manageable, then I organize, then it's ready for guests to come over, haha. I had one story awhile back that contained a character I knew I wanted to keep but just kept giving me headaches because he just wasn't ALIVE enough and I could not hit upon what made him behave the way he did. The rest of the story was exactly how I wanted it to be save this ONE character, there were these 'demon passages' that stuck out like a sore thumb to me for a long time because this character wasn't all that I wanted him to be. It eventually came to me, and I went back and tinkered with all of those passages until it finally came together. The rest of that story DID help lead me to what I needed for the guy, it just took some time. Not sure if any of this long ramble helped at all, but I hope so. No matter how much good advice I have inside my own head, I always worry and usually (like now!) I fear I won't be able to make it come together but nine times out of ten I get there in the end. I hope you do too. It sounds like you know what you're dealing with in terms of potential problems or fixes, and I think sometimes that's more than half the battle won right there, you know? ;) Sat, 19 Nov 2011 12:54:55 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_769167 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_769167 vNichols I print it. I read it, and make notes about pacing and coherency. I do the rearranging, deleting, and light copy edting. I highlight each characters dialogue with a different color. I read for each character, making sure their voice is correct the whole way through (this is one of my weak spots, so I know to do it already.) Then I make all the changes on the computer. I print it AGAIN. This is the point where I let other people read it, and wait for feedback. Then I basically repeat the previous process. Then detailed copy editing. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:02:09 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_770789 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_770789 AfterMath For me it's all about the story. Damn everything else. I'll be hitting 50k in a few days and then I'll reward myself with a breather. My process at the moment is to just write. I had an outline drafted prior to my attempt (1st Nano too!) but that has fallen by the wayside as my story morphed into something that was supposed to all have taken place before Chapter Six. I'm already on Twenty. I make minor edits and corrections when I read back, but not too many. Overall, I just make sure the story is moving along as it should and that I've removed any extraneous information / fix spelling / grammar / etc. Surgical cuts will come as soon as I get it finished. Then, I will probably show it around for feedback before I go over the manuscript and make corrections / improvements. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:27:26 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771090 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771090 vNichols Yeah, there's something to be said for putting the damned thing in the freezer for a bit. I've heard anywhere from one month to six months. Seeing the first (or second) (or third) draft with "fresh eyes" is important. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:29:55 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771120 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771120 JSR I'm always working on more than one story at a time - whether it's NaNo time or not. If I'm writing one, I'll be editing another. If I'm editing one, I'll be rewriting another. This first draft of my current story should be finished by the end of November (I'm over 150K now - the first 100K was last November), and it probably has about 10-15K left in it. Possibly a little less, depending on how soon I can get the showdown underway. And there's a chapter I skipped last week that'll need writing. When it's done, I'll be doing the first light-edit (spelling, grammar, punctuation) & tidy up before getting the first draft printed up (this should be before Christmas, I hope). Once that's printed up, I use the first print to read through what rubbish I've written and go through it with a big red pen to edit/rewrite what needs rewriting. That'll be followed by another print - around February, I should think. After that, it'll probably sit for awhile while I work on my next book. When it's been on the boil for long enough (six months or more), I'll then go back to that second print with a machete and hack it to pieces until there's only the good stuff left in it. Whether I'm writing, planning, outlining, editing, rewriting, or laying out for print, there's always something to do. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:00:51 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771529 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771529 Burnt Sushi I tend to break editing down into a gigantic list of tiny priorities. The very first thing I do is take one week off from the novel, minimum. Typically as much as two weeks, but never more than that. It allows my eyes to reset, so to speak. Next, I print it out, and read from back to front looking just for spelling and punctuation errors. I take a day or two off, reset myself, and read through again, this time for content. I X out passages or sentances or even characters that either don't fit, don't flow, or don't feel right. After taking a day off from that, I go line by line, and buff them up with descriptors, meat, anything to make it more visceral and well, good. Then, and this is the longest part, paragraph by paragraph and make sure every line has been crafted using the best word possible, and that every single sentence is awesome. Even the ones about Dick and Jane checking the mailbox. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:07:20 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771631 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_771631 Aklo As I write my first drafts by hand, the first step for me is to type it up on the computer. This way I will immedeately fix spelling errors, sentences that sound bad, omisions etc., and delete (i.e. not copy) unneeded words, sentences or scenes. I will not yet change the structure of the novel though. Then, I print it out chapter by chapter, make notes and revise. With last year's NaNo (which I'm still editing), I then send the edited chapters to proof readers and already keep their remarks in mind while editing the later chapters. I intend to start editing again from chapter 1 with their comments as soon as I've sent them the last chapter, and then probably repeat. Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:04:05 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778269 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778269 Voirey-Linger I read it through and make simple corrections and leave notes for bigger fixes. i thin go back and do the bigger fixes and shuffle it off to crit partners. Rinse and repeat until it's as clean as I can get it. Final line edit and I'm done. I see some people like to let it sit, but I don't. My cleanup round can start within minutes of hitting the end. I have an editing mindset that I'm in while I write (yes, I edit as I go... it works better for me) and if I let it sit I lose the mindset and have trouble editing. Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:24:58 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778390 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778390 jswwrites This is my first novel, but with non-fiction, I always print when I'm done. I tried the "letting it sit" thing but I do a lot of editing for other people, and I don't have too much trouble getting back to it right after I'm done (that first chapter was a lot of words ago!). I move things, make notes, correct weird sentences, anything that jumps out on a fairly quick read. I correct it and print it again, and fix anything that was less noticeable but now jumps out (bad sentence structure, unclear thoughts, weird transitions, etc). Fix and print. Usually at this point I give it to a couple of people, and pay special attention to anywhere they are confused - you know what you meant, and to me that can be one of the hardest to back away from and see clearly. Fix and print. At this point is where I might let it sit awhile... Sun, 20 Nov 2011 05:37:07 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778460 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_778460 Midwest This is only the second novel I've written. With the first, I did some things I'll repeat and some things I'll avoid. As far as things I'll repeat: as others have said, once your first draft is finished, print it. Things look very different on a real page vs screen. Read through once for plot and characters and try to ignore the little line edits. Those come much further along in the process. I also read a bunch of stuff online about editing/revising novels, and those things were helpful. Holly Lisle has a good article about it and I believe Nathan Bransford was another whose "revision checklist" I used. I'm sure there are books about it too but I don't have any of those. Things I'll avoid: failing to ignore the little line edits. I wasted hours spiffing up scenes I later deleted. Ugh. One other thing. My first novel was about two main characters and flipped from one MC's scene to another. I printed out all the scenes and then laid each scene onto a large table , with a sticky note showing which MC's scene it was, to figure out if one character had too many scenes than the other. That was the case, and I wanted them to be more balanced, so I made notes about what scenes to add for one MC and delete for the other until the book was more evenly balanced. That kind of visual is helpful for me. Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:32:31 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_780548 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_780548 J.P. Thanks for all the insights on your editing processes! Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:54:28 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_780752 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_780752 AKimlin Basically: 1. Write draft 2. Read draft 3. Bin draft repeat 1-3 until happy, and then I edit the heck out of it. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 00:38:14 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_789899 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_789899 potatocubed I've not edited a novel-length work of my own devising before, so I'm unsure of what my approach is going to be. When I edit my short stories, I tend to rewrite them from scratch several times, keeping the bits I liked best from each previous version. This is fine for 5000 word pieces, but probably won't work for a 50,000 word starting point. =/ I figure with longer works I can break them down into chapters, make a note of all the important things that appear in that chapter, then write and rewrite until I'm happy with it. I run them past people usually around version 2 or 3 to catch the things that I'm missing and check that the idea I wanted to get across is actually what's being transmitted. The line edit is an ongoing process throughout - I edit as I go, so my first drafts are often quite polished in terms of language (Nano being a notable exception :P ) but there's always room for improvement, and I'll make those tweaks as they come to mind. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 04:29:21 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_790748 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_790748 samanthagard1 For me, editing your novel it is like being a sculturer, crafting something out of pile of clay and try to make it beautiful. When I speak to my published friends they say the same thing, that editing is being the writer. Everything before is just the pre-work to the main event. Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:55:37 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_819181 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_819181 baka_kit I just started a class on novel revision. http://howtoreviseyournovel.com/ I took her class on writing a novel, and really learned a lot. Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:47:16 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_828605 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_828605 MikeAlx Best editing advice I ever read was from Sol Stein (pro author and editor). His theory is essentially: fix the big stuff first. So first address things like missing scenes, unnecessary scenes, plot logic holes, characters that don't quite work etc. Fix all that stuff before addressing pacing, chapter breaks and suchlike. Fix the nitty gritty stuff - language, imagery, grammar, spelling, rhythm etc. - last of all. Otherwise you can spend hours perfecting sentences that will end up on the cutting room floor. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm going to print mine out on 1 December and put it away for a couple of months. Then I'll have the mammoth task of trying to carve a book (or possibly two) out of NaNo 2010 and Nano 2011, since this years is a run-on. Thu, 24 Nov 2011 04:36:21 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_829177 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_829177 Pomato I'm a rebel this year. I decided to spend Nov. editing last year's NaNo. (winner!) It's been a huge learning experience for me, and I wholeheartedly agree with many of the suggestions in this thread. I continued to work on my novel last year until about Feb. I didn't finish. I got all the way up to the end, and once I had decided how the story ended, I lost interest. For the first week of Nov, I wrote about an extra 5k works finishing the ending up. Then I printed it and read it through. I hadn't read any of the stuff from last year since about Feb, so it was really nice to have a break. I'd forgotten entire scenes I cranked out last year, so it worked out really well. I took a red pen to it, changing things that bugged me, marking punctuation errors, etc. I noticed that during Nov, I had a horrible ammount of redundancies. I'd noticed things like repetative word usage, or saying the same thing three different times in one paragraph. I hadn't even realized I'd done stuff like that the first time through! In a seperate notebook, I wrote out detailed notes for re-write sections, and just labeled my draft with, say "Note 22" or "Note 15" to refer me to the detailed notes. I will tell you right now that the least helpful thing I did for myself was cross out whole paragraphs with just the note "Fix this, it sucks" I got the worst writer's block in the world when I knew I had to re-write all of Chapter 8, but I hadn't left myself any notes on my immediate thoughts. I just finished correcting everything from the first pass today. I'm hoping that I can print it out and take a second pass over it before the end of the month. I'll consider it readable then, and send it to some freinds :D Thu, 24 Nov 2011 16:51:17 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_834574 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_834574 oceansong99 Oh hey, the highlighting different characters in different colors is brilliant *steals* Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:02:35 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842382 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842382 oceansong99 First, I am going to spell check it. I turned off the spell checker and I KNOW there will be lots and lots of little red squigglies when I turn it back on. Then I'm going to leave it alone and edit my first book, which actually involves a complete rewrite and reworking. Once those are done, I will print them and pull out my trusty colored pens, looking for things like redundancies and consistency. I already know one of my character's eye color changes at least three times over the course of 2 novels. I will also look at sentences that need restructuring and things I need to take out. Only after I've gone through the print out will I go back into my documents (a copy of them!) and start making edits, again rereading as I go. Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:07:44 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842433 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842433 oceansong99 Oh, and I forgot beta readers... they will get hard copies and purple pens (I hate red pen marks, they make me want to cry) and a return envelope to send it back to me. Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:09:35 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842446 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_842446 J.P. Fix the big stuff first makes a lot of sense to me. I am making vague plans to go through the finished draft and make lists of issues to be addressed for each section first and to save line by line edits until I am happy that I have built connected all the plot skeleton pieces correctly. Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:56:39 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_843485 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_843485 misterchip100 I'm starting on my edits now (because if I didn't I would put the thing to the side and never get around to looking at the thing again). I second (or third or fourth) all those who say deal with the big things first. No need to waste your time with spelling and grammar of a section you are going to cut or re-write. What is needed for the first edit depends somewhat on your strengths and weaknesses as a writer. My first draft gave me more insight into the story and gave me some key events happening, but I realized once I was done that my characters had no goals. Or rather, they had them, but I had not stopped to find out what their personal goals were. I, as the writer, had goals for them - things they needed to do. But why were they doing these things? So my first edit involves understanding my characters' goals, and then making sure the characters act accordingly. It has actually been fun as I start to understand, "Oh, that's why she did that." To non-writers, it must sound funny that at the beginning, you often don't know the minds of your own characters; but I'm finding that to be true. Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:36:19 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_849542 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_849542 Quarks_Uglier_Brother I plan to finish both my novellas then very definitely revise them for publication on my site. Then remove the unedited stuff. Sat, 26 Nov 2011 13:35:10 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_854281 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=1#forum_thread_comment_854281 SpottedCrow I have a tendency after NaNo to put it up for a while, then reread, then deep six the stuff I don't like and sometimes add more details to the parts I DO like. NaNo's more of seeing what you can do in the month to get those creative juices going rather than churning out some tripe that reads like my chicken wrote it. (Even though Obelisk is a very good editor/ghostwriter, for a chicken) Sat, 26 Nov 2011 16:00:09 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_855677 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_855677 clayholio I haven't had to edit anything of this size before, but I think that I won't look at it until January. At that point, I'll print out a copy, and probably do a skeleton summary of the plot just to see if any of the major chunks of the story are significantly smaller than the others. I'll work on shoring that up, and work on the "show, don't tell thing." And little asides and extra dialogue will occur to me as I go through the story. The pass after that will be more about polish and style; hopefully any structural/plot issues will have been resolved by that point. And it might be ready for any outside readers after that. Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:22:30 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_891753 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_891753 Nessabutterfly I still have about another 25,000 words before I get to the end of my plot, so no editing yet for me. And when I finish the first draft, I'll put it away and work on finishing a fanfic that's been shelved for 5 years (I still get reviews and requests for more-- now that I'm writing again, I feel like I should finish it). As for the how... Not sure. Bought a book about editing your work. Gonna read that. See if it's got any good advice. Revision has always been my weak spot. It used to be because I thought my writing was soooo good that it didn;t need any work (HA! So know better than that now!!), but I just don't have the skills to know where to go with it. I'll probably just read it over and it'll be obvious where to start. Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:14:38 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_912311 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/age-group-30s-40s/threads/39504?page=2#forum_thread_comment_912311