Things we HATE or LOVE in Chick Lit http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459 MsJessica So - you know what I'm talking about. What do you hate in Chick Lit? What makes you tick? Annnndddd... go! Thu, 27 Oct 2011 00:41:20 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_242597 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_242597 megany I really hate stupid characters. I mean, ones who do things that are sooo ridiculous that it's completely irrational... yet the author relies on it as a crutch so that things easily move along. I like flawed characters, the occasional ditzy action, but when you have a female main character who does one stupid thing after another I get completely turned off. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:32:16 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246095 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246095 coleyco29 There really isn't much I don't love about chick lit... I have to admit that a lot of the time, I'm a big fan of most of the cliches that come along with it, such as: the bitchy sidekick, the flamboyantly gay best friend, falling in love with the boy next door, the requisite shoe addiction and martini get-togethers with the girl. I don't know, none of it really bothers me. The only thing I think that really ever makes me roll my eyes is that in 90% of the novels I've read, the FMC has either been a stay at home mom or have a job in publishing; as if those are our only options. However, I'm also not a huge fan of big flowery prose, like when an author uses 90 words to say, "Mandy had just gotten gold highlights put in her hair." But, if the wordcount gets to be super close this year, I may have to fall back on that, so... Sidenote: I'm really interested in seeing what the response to this thread is, because at one point, I'm really itching to write a story using only Chick-lit cliches. That was almost my Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:45:32 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246212 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246212 jjsigford I love chick-lit that can make me laugh out loud - it's pretty much the whole reason I buy certain books (thinking Sophie Kinsella specifically). I also love flawed characters - I really don't like the whole "she looks like a model and has this fabulous personality and yet she simply can't get a man" story lines. Right, as if we actually believe you. But characters like Bridget Jones who curse, struggle with their weight/alcohol consumption/cigarettes and make a complete ass out of themselves sometimes are just wonderful if you ask me. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 09:56:06 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246322 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_246322 salambander I hate it when they latch onto a catch-phrase and repeat it throughout the book (Meg Cabot's "Size 12 is not Fat" is a good example of this - the dorm-er-residence hall thing drove me BONKERS). I also hate it when it's first person, and the language used has been dumbed down. We're women. Not idiots. Some of us have decent vocabularies and don't really nead to read "and he was, like, sooo hot! Oh my god!" If want that sort of thing (and why would we?) we could just as easily eavesdrop on some bimbos/teenage girls. Sheesh. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:36:48 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_253741 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_253741 salambander :O We can't edit posts any more? Hmm... Clarification about the first-person thing - when they dumb it down to match the heroine's voice, which is also dumbed down. Do they think we'll identify with her more if she sounds like us? Do we sound that dumb to them? Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:38:02 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_253751 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_253751 audentiae Ok, it bothers me IMMENSELY when the love interest starts out with a girlfriend, and this girlfriend is a complete b***h and totally incompatible with the love interest. I mean, why would he be dating her if she were so awful? It's just poor characterization. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 20:39:16 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_255288 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_255288 lindsay allison **SPOILER ALERT FOR SOPHIE KINSELLA'S "CAN YOU KEEP A SECRET"** I absolutely ADORED it in "Can You Keep a Secret" when Emma FINALLY stood up to her awful, lying, bitchy cousin. I wanted to jump up and dance around and yell excitedly because she FINALLY stood up for herself in front of her parents and let them know she wasn't a total loser. I LOVE it when two-faced liars get what's coming for them. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:18:29 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_257379 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_257379 helenastone_lol I'm a complete hypocrite, because I'm planning one of these for my Nanowri mo, but I hate when everything that comes the heroine's way only happens by chance. I know you need something to set of the plot, but some chick lit heroines just seem to be endlessly pulled along by coincidences and luck! I love when the heroines' actually working on something that sounds fun in itself. One of my favourite chick lit heroine occupations (I can't remember the writer) was working in whiskey tasting, and the whiskey subplot was delicious, I preferred it to the romance! Sat, 29 Oct 2011 06:56:20 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_278434 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_278434 smaszansa That was almost my...?? Don't leave a chick hangin'! ;) Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:19:43 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_295780 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_295780 smaszansa [quote=jjsigford] I really don't like the whole "she looks like a model and has this fabulous personality and yet she simply can't get a man" story lines. Right, as if we actually believe you.[/quote] I find it highly believable actually. Assuming that the protagonist doesn't want just ANY man: couple-dom = 1 / ((woman's preferences + man's preferences) x bloody high amount of luck) ^ geographical location. Geographical location, as many beautiful ladies I know would attest, because you can't always find "the One" in the area in which you live. What I DO detest is the character whom every man falls for (or lusts for) at some point in the novel. I don't care how gorgeous she is or how great her personality is or how she is neither - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and no one has universal attractiveness. (Even celebrities are only attractive to some people and not to others) Case in point: "Men Are Like Mocha Lattes" by Lisa Summers. This was the only book I wanted to fling across the room. (I think I did, actually) Sun, 30 Oct 2011 09:40:18 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296016 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296016 smaszansa Well, there's the cliche of chick lit protagonists working in the fashion or media industry, which gets really boring. I LOVE it when the ending isn't what you'd expect. Or maybe I'm just a sucker that way. There was a novel where the protagonist was going to get married soon, when an old boyfriend comes back into her life. Turns out he had broken up with her for decent unselfish reasons, and they admittedly have better chemistry than she does with her fiance, and circumstances are such that they COULD be together for good this time. I was genuinely surprised when she decided to marry her fiance anyway. And I was still mulling over that book days later. I also LOVE it when the protagonist is in the depths of despair (over a suspected affair, ruined reputation, etc.) but picks herself up and gets on with her life. Then she is wonderfully rewarded for that strength and grace under pressure. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:03:59 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296304 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296304 smaszansa Also, just to clarify that first point as I realised it might have come across as offensive: I certainly don't have a problem with characters who do work in fashion or media, but I dislike it when it is simply portrayed as "THE cool career for the modern independent woman". Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:08:55 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296361 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_296361 jjsigford Touche! I guess it is SOMEWHAT believable, but for whatever reason these women tend to have plenty of people in love with them (as you noted) and they STILL can't find a man. Until so and so comes along, which you can pretty much predict from the beginning of the book. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:48:45 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_298821 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_298821 jjsigford I agree on endings that you don't expect/books that you're still thinking about a few days later. Those are good reads :) Sun, 30 Oct 2011 12:49:23 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_298840 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_298840 adabeau Very interesting posts there. I haven't read a book about a female whisky taster before! Fascinating. I suppose I get a bit tired of endless shopping and yapping on about shoes. Not being particularly interested in either of those things it does tire me a bit. However, the worst thing for me to read is if the heroine is just too perfect. I really can't bear the woman who never makes mistakes, never struggles with normal everyday issues that the rest of us have to deal with and always knows the right thing to do. I read a book once (well, half of it) and just had to give up because she was so practical and sensible and so superior to everyone else that I hated her. I agree with jjsigford on that one. Bridget Jones was a fabulous character in spite of the criticism that book received. I get that life isn't all about finding a man but in chick lit it plays a massive part let's be honest, and Bridget was a brilliant character, so likeable and fallible. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 14:02:15 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_300075 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_300075 coleyco29 gah! I didn't even realize it had cut off my post... That was meant to say that my NaNo this year was going to be done completely in every single Chick Lit cliche possible.. but then I came up with my current plot, and that one fell to the wayside. I still think it would be fun though! Mon, 31 Oct 2011 10:53:57 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_321693 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_321693 Beezie I hate when the FMC is dumb, even if she's bitchy (and skinny) and dumb. More than anything. I think that women (and it's women who write nearly all chick lit) do a huge disservice to the majority of their readers when they characterize other women as less intelligent than all those successful boys. My ideal FMC should be funny, smart and capable of huge mistakes (but not stupid ones). She should like shopping, and I suppose she can like shoes if she really wants, but she should be more interested in her friends and her life than her closet, since I really think that's how most people are. She should also get at least one chance in the book to really screw someone over, and at least seriously consider taking that chance. She should be afraid if a lot of things, but willing to face her fears. In my NaNo, the man question is already settled by the time we meet the FMC, because the search for the perfect man parts of chick lit bore me. He's not perfect, but then no one is. Mine is more "how did I end up with this life?" Chick lit. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:12:25 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_322127 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_322127 aliceband Great thread! I really love well-written chick lit: witty, original, with characters who feel real and interesting. My favorite writers are the ones who can take any story or premise (no matter how ordinary it seems, or how far outside my own interests) and make me feel like I must find out what happens next. As for what I hate, I'm completely in agreement with the above posters re: dumb characters (especially main characters), especially when they fall into a lot of genre stereotypes (e.g. wardrobe- and man-obsessed chicks with no other interests or problems). As a reader, it feels insulting - not to mention dull. This also goes for chick lit in which the ending and/or major plot twists seem contrived to the point of being unbelievable. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:28:54 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_323995 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_323995 smaszansa I get ya! What would be nice, though, is to see one of the above scenarios done in a believable manner, and not as a contrived way like you described. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:07:10 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_324933 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_324933 Sarah_Bee My biggest pet peeve about Chick Lit is definitely the dumb characters, or the idea that every woman exists just to shop and has an endless shoe closet. It's boring, it's overdone, and it's downright demeaning; even the women I know who love shopping and love shoes have FAR more going for them than just those stereotypes. I'm trying to write a variety of characters who are three dimensional and are definitely not just stereotypes. I love chick lit when a character is genuinely interesting, or when the story is a cliché that is subverted a bit or done in a slightly different way. I also love it when the focus of chick lit isn't just "finding a man." If a man is found, that's of course, fair enough, but there's so much more to being fulfilled than just finding a dreamy relationship! Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:46:41 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_351657 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_351657 confusedbritgirl God, I agree with you all entirely. For me, the same character repeated again and again does my head in! I've tried as much as I can to base all of them as firmly in reality as possible, borrowing bits from real life to make them seem more real....yes, my character will shop, and yes there will probably be a bit of flowery prose because thats how I write, but I want to laugh with my character, cry with her, tell her she's an idiot for making that decision etc. For me, my novel isnt about how she meets the guy, its about she gets over the guy....of course there is romance within it, because thats kinda the rules of a chick lit, but there will be plenty of red herrings, because lets face it, we dont all meet the guy of our dreams on day one, and we dont all get the guy we want either! But yeah, I think giving your characters interesting things to do is always important. Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:03:02 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_364900 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_364900 KimGM I really hate it in chick lit when there is always a tall, thin blonde chick who is a bitch. It's such a cliché. I am also tired of the gay best friend--this is also a cliché. If you're going to have the gay best friend character then please make him at least original--not a cliché. i have read way too many chick lit novels where the gay best friend is a stylist or make-up artist who turns the MC into a walking fashion plate. Nononono, don't want to read it again. What I love? When the MC is not constantly worrying about her weight, when the MC makes her own decisions and doesn't need her friends to lead her to every milestone in her life, when the MC likes Doc Martens as much as I do. :) Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:29:14 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_556703 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_556703 Crepuscule Reclaim sexiness so we can sell you some underwear! And perfume and clothing and diets and 'lifestyle' and charge you 50 bucks a morning to tell you to run around in a public park. It annoys me how the genre is typically used as a vehicle for selling. Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:12:15 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_562117 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_562117 Crepuscule Helena, this is not just a problem in chick lit genre, Deus Ex M. and 'fortune favours the bold' are rife in virtually all forms of popular fiction. Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:38:24 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_562779 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_562779 Kelly The Red I totally agree. If the whole basis of a novel is the search for a man, it is telling readers that a woman cannot be complete without a man. I prefer a likeable, but flawed strong woman character who is trying to fix whatever her flaw is. Say she's afraid of fire, so much so that she can't even eat in a restaurant that has candles on the tables. But she has to face her fear and run into a burning building to rescue a puppy. If she has or gets a man, then it should be a minor part of the story. Mon, 07 Nov 2011 21:09:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_563576 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_563576 KimGM God, I hate that too! I don't need all the brand names. I just want to read a damned good story--not something that brand name drops every three lines. If I wanted that, I would watch TV. Tue, 08 Nov 2011 11:21:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_575462 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_575462 Sort_of_Bookish Hate: Obsessing about weight, one-dimensional bitches with no driving force that makes them that way, macho men with macho-men jobs who are "cool and detached and mysterious," that everyone is an editor or a fashionista, that they all have to take place in NYC (and I live here!) Love: Specificity in the "world" of characters. I learn a lot about reading what it's like to be in jobs from Chick Lit. For example, I've read about quilting, do-it-yourself fix-ups of houses, art restoration, wedding planning, getting your colors done, being in a rock band. I don't know about or want to do any of those things, but I really appreciate the authentic details in the descriptions and the accurate accounts of the day-to-day work. I also love when characters get themselves in trouble. Big mistakes are interesting to read about. Doubly interesting when a character figures out how to save herself instead of waiting for help/Deus ex machina Tue, 08 Nov 2011 12:14:57 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_576438 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_576438 pookersmom I have a gay best friend in my novel but he's a lawyer. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:48:02 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_646138 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_646138 pookersmom HATE: Scenes that take place in the rain. The scene where the MC stops speaking to her best friend, followed later by the scene where they make up. Stuff with pets in general, although it works for me sometimes (Jennifer Weiner). Jobs in fashion or journalism. Diets. Too much talk about weight or body type. "I choose me." LOVE: Smart-mouthed women. Imperfection. Unplanned pregnancies (I should hate that, but when it's done well, it's just fun). Scenes that take place in coffee shops, because this makes me think of the smell of coffee while I'm reading. Anything that takes place in a large European city. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:01:29 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_646393 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_646393 SunnyDenise i hate it when the FMC meets the MMC for the first time on page two and it instantly becomes obvious that they are going to end up together by the end of the book. Lame. I like strong-willed, intelligent women who make their own way in life and make their own decisions, and sometimes the choices they make are bad choices and things turn out bad for them. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:38:56 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_653452 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_653452 lilmissredtshirt Sometimes I can deal with some melodramatic characters, but when they are really stupid, self-absorbed, or just plain mean, it takes me a lot to want to continue reading. I also hate random light sex scenes thrown in without thought for the storyline. I was reading a book about a girl on a farm the other day, and somewhere between her description of granny and her respect for her father, there's a light, boring sex scene. I stopped reading, and out the book went. (I'm sure sex scenes have their place and can be placed properly in a storyline... they're just not for me). I don't care for excess details... I don't need to know that little Sally tied her shoes three times to get it right, starting with the left shoelace... just get to the point. I don't care for characters texting one another all the time (really?) or play-by-play of date scenes. Ok, maybe I'm a little picky. I like my Chick Lit fluffy if I'm looking for a fun afternoon read. I don't care for intense problems or drama in it. Tue, 10 Jan 2012 02:36:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1046530 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1046530 Cellospice I love love/hate relationships. And love triangles. But they have to be executed properly because if it's too obvious then it's not interesting. Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:55:31 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1164195 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1164195 Kimberly Dawn HATE it when... Women melt in front of their men and lose all sense of previous character building, such as intelligence and strength. women go through a streak of "I don't need men." thus the men are sacrificed. the book is 100% about fashion and how women are all about looks. the book is about how many men a woman can sleep with in a month. melodrama is inserted because it's really that time for it to be there. (Insert random disease, wheelchair, or infirmity as a result of a car.) the book is about poor white people living in really large apartments/flats in NYC (London, or whatever). the book includes token races as best friend. gay friend has to be a stereotype. strength shouldn't be defined through pounds, but endurance... and the ability to pick oneself up again. a pair of shoes is more important than a person. the only male friend/character around is gay. (What happened to the family members?) LOVE it when the girl is some other color than white not working in a stereotypical female job. ('cause it is rare) the book is about building relationships, not about sex and balancing career and relationships in general (Family, friends). the book isn't about break up and make up over and over again. the book doesn't take itself too seriously--chick lit usually is inherently funny. the lead woman isn't Miss Perfect, nor Miss train wreck. (I kinda prefer dorky) I prefer books that are about keeping relationships together rather than going through the cycle of watching them fall apart--so how do you keep up with a boss that you don't like, but need to stand? The make up-break up in chick flicks/chick lit makes me angry... probably why some women end up with horrid men. the cast of characters is diverse and not 100% focused on men, but don't follow the usual stereotype of the virgin-knowitall-main character in a long term relationship. the book is made of funny and keeps the characters true to themselves throughout, teasing out heart and warmth through every day life, but without the slowness of Slice of Life (which I like separately). 100% of the book is set in a non-english speaking country without an english speaker in sight. Not sure why, but when I listed the Love it when, for some reason some writers said, "But that's not chick lit" I think chick lit is a tone a kind of funny which examines women's issues in a light way. It's sad that writers don't think the genre could be open more... which just stigmatizes the genre. Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:38:41 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1250325 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/chick-lit/threads/12459?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1250325