Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:24:39 +1000

I have this character, Auhsoj, who is a twelve-year-old psychic. He was raised by an old wizard in a cottage in the woods because someone had left him there as a baby. The wizard isn't a mean old man or anything, but he just doesn't treat Auhsoj like a son. In return for saving him, Auhsoj is a servant to the wizard, cleaning, fetching, sharpening, dusting, and taking good care of the materials. He can't even be apprenticed by him because he just doesn't have that kind of ability. But I don't know, this sounds kind of unfair, like "I could have thrown you out in the streets but since I'm so good and kindhearted I let you sleep under my roof and eat the food off my table. But if you're going to stay, you have to work, you ingrate!" But the wizard's not like that- he took him in really because he cared about the child, and that was all he was thinking of at the time. So...how did that now become a servant-master relationship? I can't figure out why the wizard doesn't see him as a son. Any ideas or suggestions? P.S. Also, the old wizard needs a name, and I have no idea. For the novel I've just been calling him "The Master".

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Dennis Dunjinman — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:47:57 +1000

There's no ulterior motive to keeping the kid besides his ability to work? If all the wizard wanted was a slave, he could have tossed the kid out and animated a broom to bring in the water and do the sweeping. Well, since the kid can't do magic, he can't be an apprentice. But could the kid at least do anything to help the wizard carry on his legacy if he has no kids of his own? Will his magic or anything die with him if he doesn't? As for the name, I could really use one, too. And maybe a gender, since I can't decide if my own hermit-magic-person is a man or a woman (but I'm leaning towards 30-years-old-man, since I already have two well-aged women).

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Kayla Rain — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:49:29 +1000

Maybe the wizard lost a son or daughter before, maybe they were stillborn or something like that, and he doesn't feel like he can get emotionally attatched to another being again - maybe the wizard is too old to do these things for himself and the boy does it out of the kindness of his heart - maybe the wizard has some social anxiety problems (I watched some Taboo show today, they were talking about people who fall in love with dolls and other inanimate objects because they just can't form relationships with 'organics', and some people are born with different brain wiring so that they sense personalities in objecst, tastes color, etc) and the boy does these things to gain approval, and the wizard asks these things of him because he doesn't know how to really speak to people - maybe because the wizard is old, he has memory problems and often repeats things to himself (e.i. "Did I get the wood? Did I get the wood? I must of got the wood.") and the boy goes out and does the tasks he forgets to do to ease his mind - perhaps the wizard just really isn't an emotional man, and the boy assumes he doesn't care for him and tries his best to seek approval. Wizard names - Radagast Prospero Aylith Leri Crisiant Cadell Rincewind Bob

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

keolah — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:35:06 +1000

I fail to see why making him do chores is _not_ treating him like a son. :P

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Dav1d — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:50:28 +1000

Seems to me you are right! So either the wizard is his father, or he is a servant. Either the wizard cares about him and wants what is best for him, or he is using him, and doesn't care about him... Either this wizard, is not a very good wizard, in the sense he can't teach his magic to another, or once again we come back to he doesn't really care about this person... I'm sorry I don't find it a bit believable that he can learn to cook and clean, and care, and polish, but can't learn a bit of magic? Rubbish... Perhaps he'll never be a great wizard, but not to be able to learn anything? Not even with all the wizard's knowledge, and spells? I think you've got it right, he's nothing more than a slave....

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:01:12 +1000

Well, it's not that the wizard can't teach, or the boy can't learn anything about magic. The kid can learn *about* it, I guess, but he can't ever *use* it. In my world, magic powers are inborn. And the boy was not born with those powers, so teaching him stuff he can never use would be kind of pointless.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:05:25 +1000

Hm, good point...now that you mention it, the wizard is going to have to leave the world sooner or later... But how the kid can help? I don't really know...

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:15:49 +1000

Hey, that could work, that he offers to do the work instead of it being orders. I haven't thought of using memory problems, but now that you mention it, I could have that happen sometime. And then slowly over years he does it more and more out of habit and it's just become something they're used to. Yeah, the wizard isn't emotional, so the trying to gain approval thing could really work! Oh, and thanks for the wizard names. I don't know if any of them would fit (unfortunately not Bob xD), though I do like Radagast, Crisiant, and Prospero.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Dav1d — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:46:35 +1000

I kind of thought that might be where you came from.... You certainly don't need to accept my concept of magic for your world. But what is magic? I like bending reality to my will, that things conform to what I desire. If I'm strong enough, and I desire it enough then my son, has the ability to use magic... What does it mean to be a father? I would contend that part of that means you want your son to grow up to have your values, your desires, your wants. To choose to live, with someone that lacks the potential, lacks the posibility to be like you. Set you up in a master slave relationship that is unhealthy in my opinion. It's not a meeting of equals, but rather one of haves and haves nots. Over time that tains the relationship. You can play it either way, either the son sees his father as this all powerful wizard, that can do anything. Or he'll grow to see him as this controlling person who uses his power to force others to do his will. Kind of he could cast a spell and dust would never settle, but he'd rather have me dust, clean polish, cook, etc.... Just think about how many sons rebell against their parents wishes in our world! Where the chores really need to be done by someone.... I contend that as a father he would want his son to grow up to be like him, only better. And each time he looked at him he would see what his son can't be, can't do. That would build walls between them, things they as you put it simply don't talk about ~ because what would be the point. That given time, and the lack of a bonding that comes with ones own child, it would be easy to slip into seeing what the boy can't do.... To focus on the limitations.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Eruravenne — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:48:49 +1000

I agree. Sounds like chores to me. A lot of kids these days may not have to do much of anything around the house, but even in just the last century, they were expected to do quite a lot of work unless they were pretty well off. Not giving a child chores was generally considered spoiling them. For a parent, to make a child do chores was to teach them responsibility and a good work ethic. Regardless of what type of work the child would end up doing as an adult, having a good work ethic was (and still is) important to success. Even if your wizard doesn't think of the boy as a son, if he cares about him in any capacity, he'll want him to be a successful adult. Since the boy can't learn magic, it makes sense that the wizard would want him to learn to be a good, diligent and efficient worker so that he can be successful in a non-magical profession when he grows up. Right?

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Unit7 — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:23:36 +1000

You could have the WIzard sort of annoyed that the kid insists on calling the Wizard Master and in general about the kid feeling the need to do all these chores and such. But then I have always found these sorts of relationships fun when handled right.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Tricket — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:24:04 +1000

I think it all really depends on how you approach the interpersonal relationship between the wizard and the boy, as well as the doling out of the chores. As said above, chores aren't bad things - not at all. They teach responsibility and survival. One can learn a lot from having to do a bit of labor around the house, or outside the house. If the wizard barks out order after order - chop the wood, weed the garden, mop the floors - with no chance for rest or reward, if he cares nothing for the splinter the boy gets, or gives him tasks that are too difficult for him to accomplish (repairing the roof, or digging a new well), or doesn't bother to do any work himself, it will seem like a servant/master relationship. It will seem like that even more so if there's no mutual respect between them, or banter of understanding. What happens if the boy falls ill? Does he still have to do these chores? A servant possibly could, whereas a 'family' member wouldn't? For example, the boy is told to cook a meal. He serves the wizard his portion at the table next to the nice, warm fire. The boy on the other hand is told to eat the scraps and he must stay in the kitchen - this is more along the lines of servant /master relationship. However, if the boy cooks the meal, the wizard sets the table, they talk to each other, and the wizard shows some amount of caring, and is grateful for the meal (no matter how bad it is), then it will seem more like a caring relationship. The boy has responsibilities - not unfair ones, but he does have them. The wizard shows interests in the boy's well being, in his growing up. He tries to teach useful skills, guide him along a path to adulthood. Plus, a lot will also weigh on the boy's attitude. If he's reluctant to accomplish the chores, if he thinks their too much, and doesn't feel as if he's getting a fair shake, it may, again, go back to servant/master relationship. I mean, if the wizard is lounging about doing nothing while the boy is working his tail off, this would make anyone feel used. But, if the wizard is doing his best to keep the boy in clothes and foods, and hardships exist for them both, then that would change it.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Maydeleh — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 14:47:11 +1000

The wizard clearly has some attachment to the kid. If he was left as a baby, he wouldn't have been terribly useful as a servant at all. This is someone who kept a child, raised him--and raising a baby is a LOT different from taking in an older child who can already work--he may not think of the child as a son, but he's certainly acted as a father. I agree with many people here...giving the boy work doesn't suggest to me that he doesn't have parental feelings. He may see himself as a father, but in a cultural model that assumes that a father is an object of respect, and some fear, as well as love. Twelve is old enough in most cultures to be expected to do a day's work. If he doesn't see himself as a father, it's possible this is a personal thing, but it could also be cultural. Perhaps this is a culture that values blood ties very highly, and no matter how warmly the wizard feels toward his charge/servant, he can't imagine that 'family' is something that exists outside of blood. Maybe he realizes that he can't give the kid very much--he can't teach him his trade, he can't leave him anything useful to him. He might be becoming a little more distant as the boy becomes more adult, realizing that this situation really can't be permanent, and he's going to need to find another place for him. Just thoughts.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:50:31 +1000

First off, thanks, guys, for all the detailed responses. :) Now that I think about it, the work isn't that bad. You guys are right, it's just chores to teach responsibility, and to make him able to do something if magic isn't an option. Over time, he does seem to do more work than the wizard does, but it could be just that he offers to do so as the wizard ages. And now I see that maybe there would be a lack of bonding if the wizard still pities that the boy can't learn magic, and the boy sees himself as limited. And the wizard is a bit stiff and unemotional, his caring may not show directly. Now I see there's a difference between what they have and master/slavery. I think I can work this out now. Thanks, all of you!

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Raksab — Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:59:55 +1000

Maybe the boy simply works hard to support the old man because he loves him, even if the old man does not love him back. Besides... parents can just be mean. Or strict, if you prefer. They can also be abusive, and this doesn't mean they don't love their children. Or they can just not know how to be good parents, so they make it up as they go, and sometimes they get it wrong. People who acquire a child don't magically become enlightened about how to raise it. Even if they know how to deal with a baby, sometimes when the kid gets older, they find themselves at a loss. I, for one, would find it damn difficult to relate to a psychic, preteen or otherwise. If psychics were real, I wouldn't want anything to do with one, period. How long have the two of them known about his ability? That could mark the point where they started to drift apart. By the way, I believe a "slave" is someone who is legally the property of his owner, has lesser status (or none) in a court of law, and is not free to leave his master. This situation you described sounds more like servitude to me: the kid is free to go if he chooses, he just sticks around because he doesn't have anywhere else to go. And as above posters pointed out, being made to do a lot of household chores is perfectly normal for a son (or daughter) in many societies. But if he is indeed a slave by the standards of his world ... so what? Why is that bad for your story? Is it important that the wizard be unequivocally good and kind? Lots of fairly decent people can have moral flaws, and lots of bad people can still do kind things. Furthermore, it might be entirely normal in your fictional world for wizards to keep young boys as servants, so by his own universe's standards, it is no flaw at all.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

cadaughtrey — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:07:52 +1000

It sounds like pretty much any parent-child relationship, honestly. Maybe to an extreme degree if the kid is made to do ALL the work while the wizards sits around and twiddles his thumbs. But any familial arrangement has its division of labor. Just because there's not familial connection, doesn't make it slavery. There's nothing wrong with, "If you're going to live here, you need to contribute in some way to the household." It's no different than me making my kids take out the trash or clean up their room.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Argentum — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 02:56:26 +1000

There can be a fine line between child and slave :) As long as your Master views his boy as a person and not as property, I wouldn't think slavery. Some parents do turn their kids into slaves. On the other hand, some employers develop close bonds with people they've hired. One of my friends has worked for the same guy for as long as he's been in America; he views this boss as a father, and the boss thinks of him as a son. The boss has a biological daughter and a stepson, but it's my friend whom he is grooming to take over the business. I like Raksab's suggestion of the man and boy maybe not being on the same page. Put some tension into their relationship, and the characters will be more interesting.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Itzika — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:35:02 +1000

So by your logic, able-bodied and -minded parents can't raise kids who have mental or physical disabilities, because they'll only see what their kids can't do, which will distance them from each other. So, say, the people my friend knows who have a boy with severe Tourette's Syndrome can't be good parents to him, because they don't have it. Same with the family whose daughter can only eat through a tube. And my mom can't be a good parent to me, because I have depression on a level she doesn't experience along with untreated anxiety and many symptoms of Asperger's. And my friend with dyslexia--her parents can't be good parents to her. And the girl I knew in grade school whose hands and legs were malformed--her too, because she'll never be an athlete or anything and I don't know if it's possible for her to speak "normally." You sure about that? It's not just magic that differs kids from their parents, you know.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Dennis Dunjinman — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:36:22 +1000

Wait a minute... your kid's name is just "Joshua" spelled backwards! Why can't it be spelled frontwards?

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Argentum — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:18:56 +1000

Name the old wizard Retsam?

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

hmltwin — Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:46:59 +1000

I've read all the other posts and I see you've got the issue more or less sorted. I just wanted to add this: I'm not sure exactly how magic works in your universe. In mine, it's inborn as well. There are people who simply can't do magic, no matter how much they know about it. However, I have at least one character who - although he can't perform a single spell - knows more about how magic works than some people who use it on a daily basis. Perhaps the wizard can still teach a bit of his trade to the boy, even if both of them know that he'll never be able to actually do it. Then, at least, the wizard will have someone to carry on his knowledge. Maybe that's part of the reason why he's keeping the boy around.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

OnyxFlame — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:51:18 +1000

Well, the wizard could entrust his most precious magic books to the kid, in hopes that some day the kid can find a worthy person to receive them. Or he could actually put his spirit in an orb or something and have the kid carry it around or take it somewhere to be entombed. And there's also the thought that even if the kid can't learn magic, he *could* learn herbal medicine or something. Maybe the old guy has arthritis and needs salves & stuff. :)

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

OnyxFlame — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 02:52:43 +1000

Radagast's already been used, and most fantasy readers would probably recognize it & assume you were copying. :(

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

OnyxFlame — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 03:02:15 +1000

Just a note to mention that your MC's name annoys the crap out of me, heh. I noticed it was Joshua backwards almost instantly, and it just seems *wrong* (or at least uncreative) when authors do that. Your story setup sounds cool, but I'd advise you to change the kid's name if possible, before he insists on being called that forever heh. Don't really have time now, but I'm pretty much an expert at coming up with names if you want some suggestions. :)

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 09:54:54 +1000

Got it.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:20:12 +1000

It's kind of hard to explain, but I have a personal reason. I know it might sound weird and unprofessional to some, but it's kind of symbolic to me.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:36:16 +1000

I'm sorry it annoys the crap out of you and I seem uncreative right now. I am not that open to changing it, though, because the name Auhsoj might be wrong to you, but it means a lot to me to keep it. It is symbolic to me for personal reasons, and I have already grown attached to it and it feels wrong to change it. However, as I do want to get this published someday and will have to make things work for an audience, maybe I can compromise a little. I might be open to switching around some letters or changing the spelling, as long as it still has a shadow or remnant of "Auhsoj". That way I can still keep the part I connect to, without annoying readers with an obvious backwards-name. :) Maybe you can help me with that, if you want. :) I don't know if it'll work or not, but it's just an idea and I'll think about it. How's that?

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:40:56 +1000

That's a good point. He does seem to absorb all the rules and works of magic even better than the wizard's apprentice. Heck, he is even sometimes asked to help tutor the apprentice! Hey, that gives me an idea- maybe the old wizard won't be around long enough to teach the apprentice everything, and that's where the psychic comes in handy. Thank you. :)

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:47:20 +1000

Good points there. I'm still working out how psychics and standards of slavery work in my world. So far, the psychic abilities aren't that important- they are just something that distract or mark him as different. But in time I will figure out a way to make it stronger and stronger. As for slavery, I really don't know yet. But thank you for giving me something to think about . This will help me build my world clearer. :)

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:48:26 +1000

That's true.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:51:45 +1000

That's interesting. I guess I have yet to figure out what kind of relationship the wizard and psychic have. But thank you for reminding me there are many different levels, not just child or slave. :)

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Raksab — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:41:16 +1000

Frankly (pun intended), it sounds kinda like "sausage"....

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:46:52 +1000

LOL yeah it does. I know it sounds silly, but that's part of why I like it. It's kinda funny. Not that the kid's gonna get turned into a sausage or anything. Note: PART of why I like it. I have a better reason for keeping it than just being a funny name, trust me. To be explained on a later date or in a later book.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Argentum — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 01:57:56 +1000

One thing you might try is adding other characters whose names either begin with "Au-" or end with "-soj" etc. If it appears to fit the naming conventions of your society, then the fact it's Joshua spelled backwards could seem like a coincidence, if someone notices (I didn't). Examples: Toj, Aurora, Rauth, Minoj ... just a thought.

Re: Help- this now sounds like slavery

Sherendaze — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 16:42:58 +1000

That's a great idea. Thank you! :D