Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
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Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
http://writerunboxed.com/2012/01/27/5-attitudes-toward-publishing-you-should-avoid/
Also contains the wrong reasons to self-publish.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Excellent article.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Very informative.
Thanks for sharing.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
That was a great read. Some of the comments were particularly enlightening.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
I found items #1 and #2 very interesting.
Not sure I entirely agree. Not everyone is going to write a #1 best seller on their first or even fifth attempt. Sometimes, I think you should consider an alternative such as self-publishing or a smaller publishing company (read: less-than-ideal). It helps get your name in the basket so more established agents and companies will not immediately throw you letters in the trash because they don't know who you are.
She quotes Clay Shirky as saying, “In a world where publishing is effortless, the decision to publish something isn’t terribly momentous.” Effortless? Really? What world is that because I want to travel there! I'm on my second full manuscript and trust me, it's not effortless.
She also states, "When most books land on the shelves, they rarely make an audible sound." Um, yeah. And that's . . . bad? Somebody has best-seller issues it sounds like. Most works of real genius rarely make an audible sound. And yet we all know about Snooki's book. That work of trash hit the shelves with THUNDER.
Yes, it's a good article, but in my opinion it misses on some levels.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Unless you're really successful as a self-published author. Being self-published doesn't help you get past a slush pile. When I worked reading one, it was actually a hobby between the interns to try to figure out which "published" novels were self-published (pretty easy to figure out with a couple minutes on google). I mean, if you sell thousands of copies, sure, but self-publishing in the hopes that it will give you more credibility in the future is a bad plan. Especially if you don't throughly edit and layout your self-published novel. Then you just have something awful out there tied to your name.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
I think is definitely key. Obviously you don't want to self-publish something that is poorly edited and horribly structured. If you choose self-publishing, you want your book hitting . . . wherever it goes, as polished as something professionally done. There are success stories as well as many, many, many defeats, just as in traditional publishing.
Personally, I would prefer the traditional route. But if I spend the next 50 years writing and never get a nibble, self-publishing will start to become a very tantalizing option.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
I think that a lot of the challenge, though, is that a great many so-so writers aren't aware that their story is poorly edited and horribly structured. (Hence why they're so-so.) Not always but...
IDK. I'm kind of with a friend who refuses to self-pub until he gets his SFWA credentials. Then again, it also seems pretty silly to throw something away that you've worked really hard on and that genuinely seems to be good.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
"She quotes Clay Shirky as saying, “In a world where publishing is effortless, the decision to publish something isn’t terribly momentous.” Effortless? Really? What world is that because I want to travel there! I'm on my second full manuscript and trust me, it's not effortless."
___
But that's writing. Self-publishing, while not effortless, it pretty easy. Anyone can do it. Writing, not easy. But they're talking about publishing. The actual physical act of pressing *publish* and having an e-book out there...
_____
"She also states, "When most books land on the shelves, they rarely make an audible sound." Um, yeah. And that's . . . bad? Somebody has best-seller issues it sounds like. Most works of real genius rarely make an audible sound. And yet we all know about Snooki's book. That work of trash hit the shelves with THUNDER."
___
But it's the truth. While I love my story, if I self-publish it, it's probably not going to be another Eragon. A lot of readers hear about Meyer, Rowling, or Paloni and they decide that they're just as good, and that's going to happen to them. It MIGHT happen. probably not. That's all she's saying...
I've got no grudge against either, but I'd go professional... I'd need someone professional to tell me my work is publishable... :D
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
When it comes to publishing, there is no basket. Authors earn their way into every publisher and every contract. Editor can and will reject projects from established authors on a case-by-case basis and proposals will be turned down. Downgrading to a publisher who is less discerning or skipping rejections by self-publishing items that editors have said were lacking doesn't move you up the publishing ladder.
But whatever the condition of your manuscript you can have it on Amazon and Smashwords before bedtime. In that way it is very effortless and I believe that's what is meant. Anyone can publish anything on a whim.
From the selling side it is. I don't need my book to hit the NYT list, but every sale is a paycheck. There are so many books coming out every day that getting people to buy enough copies of mine to make the effort or writing it worthwhile is harder than writing the book to begin with. It's not about being a bestseller. It's about selling enough copies to convince your publisher your next book can sell enough to occupy one of their limited release slots so that I can keep doing this.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
I half agree and half disagree with you here. I think it's absolutely true that you shouldn't expect your first book to get you a million-dollar contract with Harper Collins. And it's certainly better to go with a (reputable--not a scam or vanity press) smaller publishing company if you can get it.
Self-publishing is a completely different story, though, in my opinion. Anybody can do it. I have a book on Create Space that I could self-publish with a click of a button (I put it up there just because I wanted the free proof copy). And honestly it's a pretty awful book (it's a Nano with NO editing, how could it not be?). And it only took me a couple hours and average computer skills to put it up there. For this reason, self-publishing doesn't hold much weight with publishers. It's so easy to do that it doesn't really mean anything. Of course, a hardworking self-published author who built a demonstrable reader base might be a different story. I mean that being able to say you have written 3 self-published novels in your bio isn't going to help you any. In fact, it might hurt your chances because the person looking at it will say wow, nobody wants to take this person's stuff.
I work for a small publishing house (yes, one of the ones that people seem to think are so desperate for books that they will take even the crappiest books, if the authors are willing to settle for them . . .) and we definitly look askance at works that have been self-published. We won't automatically reject them but there has to be something really good in them to catch our eye.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
I would take some of this advice from whence it comes. Ms. Friedman is a professional whose entire career is *extremely* vested in the old system of publishing. Her writing credentials are just about zero: a book on writing (from someone with zero writing credits) published by WDB six years ago, and a recent self published work.
Frankly, I think if I was looking for advice on the business side of writing, I'd go asking those folks who have actually been writers and been successful at the career, rather than someone who's been a magazine publisher and editor.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
She echoes the often-said advice of others, recent and otherwise--both in self-publishing and in traditional publishing. So I wouldn't dismiss her unless you have an article that counters hers on her advice.
Plus you made a fallacy--you said she was invested in the traditional method, then you said she had a self-published book and didn't know anything. Then you said that she was an editor and magazine publisher (implying she wasn't a real writer.... but then she got a book traditionally published.). Uhh... contradictions.
Wiser to attack the article rather than the person, yes?
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
"Believe me, you don’t just want to get your book published."
I really can't stand anyone who tells me what I want.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
So you would like to have your book launched and then fail on the book shelves/online stores. Then quit all writing together? Irony of that is that it is harder to get published with that attitude.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
All I said is that I don't like people trying to tell me what *I* want. They are free to tell me what they think is a good idea, but not to tell me what I want. If it was someone telling me what I should avoid, fine, that's just an opinion.
There's nothing wrong with just wanting something to be published. Why is it somehow illegitimate to want something published instead of it merely sitting in a drawer never being read? And who said anything about quit writing altogether? That is a non sequitur.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
My thoughts exactly. :D
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Surely, though, it depends on the wants/ambitions of the individual writer.
If you're dreaming of being a best-selling author whose day job is to write novels for a living, then sure, I can see that self-publishing isn't necessarily the best way to achieve that.
However, I do find it annoying when people think that the above goal is the ONLY possible goal of someone who is writing a novel/book/whatever.
I'd like to publish a novel (at least one, at any rate), at some point. PURELY TO SEE IT IN PRINT.
Sure, it would be *nice*, hypothetically (to my mind), to write a bestseller. But just because I don't see myself living JK Rowling's post-published life, doesn't mean I'm going to quit writing altogether. I just want to write to tell the stories spinning round in my head, and to see them in print. Simply to have written, refined, finished and published a novel, is enough for me.
What some people don't seem to appreciate is that everyone has different goals.
Some people aim to win gold at the Olympics, running like Usain Bolt. Another person might just want to be able to comfortably run around the block, at their own pace, without feeling like they're having a heart attack. Is either goal more or less valid than the other?
If YOUR ambition is to get published and sell to millions of people, that's great. I hope you get it. But that doesn't mean that's what *I* want.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
If you think publishing is "You publish it and they shall read" like some Field of Dreams movie, you haven't read that extensively about publishing. That was her argument after that statement.
In order to get people to read your book, you need to do promotion--and sometimes that's required by the publisher. You will need and sometimes be required to do interviews, book promotions, the book launch, book signings, etc. If you do not cooperate, you might see yourself A. Get sued. B. Be screwed out of being published ever again.
In addition, publishers are wary of the one-book wonder club. They see publishing as a business not an art form where you get a merit badge from them and quit. They often make it so it's difficult on you not to do things like book signings. For example, you get your first check after the book launches--that means you have to show up. After the book launches you get another check, say after a signing. (Source: Mur Lafferty).
So if your only goal is to get your book published and you want to be traditionally published, you're going to have a hard time of it and might face not getting your money and might get sued for breaking contract--the publisher faced a loss when you didn't show up for the book launch party. Welcome to being black listed. Not one reader will show up to read it, because most likely to cap costs, the publisher will pull your book from the shelves. No second print run. And you survived through 100 rejections to only get sued and black listed? That must be fun.
BTW, publishing information about the above I got from reading Agent blogs, reading writer's digest, author notes, etc. I keep on top of these things. Publishing is a business. Benefits to read about it if you are serious about getting published, self-published or no.
Why does this work logically because the operating Adverb was ONLY in the original sentence acting on the verbs "get published".
The original sentence said, "Trust me, you don't only want to get your book published."
As was said, you want an audience to read your book. That means you have to do more work after that. But did you read past that sentence?
Besides, if you take basic logic, the "Only" is an exclusionary statement. Meaning that quitting writing is not a non-sequitur. Because if you write another novel, then that's inclusionary of doing something else after being published. If you write a short story, that's inclusionary of doing something else after you get published. Logic. I got it in math class... (Especially if you actually read the supporting evidence after the hook--BTW, English class. 4th grade? Ya know, the 5 paragraph essay teachers love so much.)
Also, I don't get the getting insulted at a you statement in somewhat of an instruction manual blog post. To me, it's like reading bike instructions that say, "You have to put prong A into slot B" and then invalidating the instructions because the instructions dared to use the word "You."
If one is going to get insulted, get insulted for bigger things in the world, such as prejudice. Not at an instructional guide. Seriously. Not worth it. And at least attack the article logically and with support.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Sorry, original statement said: I just want to get my book published.
just is the exclusionary word.
Still, you will get screwed with that attitude.
=P Was going to replace it, but zoned out.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
OK, one thing to say before I start: I'm sorry Kimberly Dawn if I've come across as angry or deluded, or majorly insulted by the article.
You make excellent points in the above post, and yes, I do actually agree with you in that respect.
I should probably explain my viewpoint more clearly.
To my mind, the article is great advice to people who want to reach a large readership, make lots of sales, and possibly become a writer as their day-job. In terms of people who want that, but are just being impatient at how long it takes to get a deal with an actual publisher, it's a great article.
I guess I'm just not the target audience for it.
My writing is a hobby, something I do for ME. For me, to actually finish writing a novel in the first place, would be an achievement. If I could write more than one, even better. I just want to get the stories in my head on to paper, whether or not anyone else reads them.
I don't actually dream of being an author in the traditional sense. Personally, I like a divide between my home and work life. 9-5 at work, and the rest of the time to myself, basically (bar the usual obligations). As much as I enjoy writing, I couldn't do it as my actual job.
If I were to self-publish something that I write, I would be doing it for ME. Not because I'm hoping to attract a traditional book deal, or to gain a readership. The author of the article says:
"Are you hoping to use self-publishing as a way to attract a traditional deal? If so, be careful. Self-publishing is a full-time job if you intend to build a readership. Are you ready to take on that full-time job of marketing yourself? Do you know who you’re marketing to? Do you know how to market to them?" (Point 1.)
That is an extremely valid point... IF one intends to build a readership. The key word, though, is *IF*. Personally, I don't care if no one else reads what I write.
I completely agree with your points on what publishers want, and that they're in it as a business. I know and understand that, which is why I know traditional publishing would not be right for what *I* want to do. I'm not interested in sales or readership. Even if I'm the only person to read what I write, I'll be happy.
OK, quoting from you:
"So if your only goal is to get your book published and you want to be traditionally published, you're going to have a hard time of it and might face not getting your money and might get sued for breaking contract--the publisher faced a loss when you didn't show up for the book launch party. Welcome to being black listed. Not one reader will show up to read it, because most likely to cap costs, the publisher will pull your book from the shelves. No second print run. And you survived through 100 rejections to only get sued and black listed? That must be fun.
BTW, publishing information about the above I got from reading Agent blogs, reading writer's digest, author notes, etc. I keep on top of these things. Publishing is a business. Benefits to read about it if you are serious about getting published, self-published or no."
First paragraph - absolutely correct, IF I wanted to go down the traditional publishing route. I probably should have said in my previous post, that I only want my novel published (self-published, that is, not traditional), in order to have a personal copy of it in the format I'd like. Not to sell, not to make money, not to be on best-seller lists. It's just my personal project. In which case, why would I waste anyone's time by sending it to traditional publishers in the first place?
Second paragraph - Absolutely. I'll be sure to keep all that in mind. And when/if I ever get to the point of actually wanting to publish something, self-published or otherwise, I will definitely take my time in doing my research and making sure I know exactly what I'm signing up for.
One thing about me is that sometimes I will feel a flash of emotion when reading something, then respond quickly without properly thinking it though. I admit that, and it's something I'm currently working on. I felt mildly annoyed by some parts of the article when reading it, like the author was presuming to tell me what I would/would not feel/want, but I didn't feel like it was a huge insult.
When I first read the article, I felt that the author was trying to warn EVERYONE off self-publishing, and basically ignoring/writing off those who self-publish for their own reasons as being impatient or in denial.
In reading the article without thinking of it as being intended for a target audience (ie, people who actually do want their work published traditionally, large readership, sales, etc etc), I felt that parts of it, such as Point 2 of the article, ("I just want to get my book published") was assuming that *everyone* wants attention for their work.
I do generally agree with the article, and with the points you make... within the context of someone who wants a large readership, traditional publishing deal, and lots of sales. If that's what one wants, then yes, I can see it as being sensible advice, and can totally see where you're coming from.
I know that purely having a book published does not mean it will be read, or that it will sell. Of course traditional publishers will only publish what will make them money. I wouldn't expect them not to.
When I said I wanted to see my work published (in my case, I'm quite sure it'll be self-published), I meant I wanted to have a copy in a format I want. No big sales, no marketing, no publicity. A personal project. Don't worry, I harbour no dreams of being "discovered" or anything like that.
I just feel that some people don't seem to understand someone who simply wants to write for their own personal pleasure and enjoyment, and doesn't dream of being a best-seller.
Kimberly Dawn, you do make good points, and the article is great advice, when it is considered as being written for a certain audience.
It is BECAUSE I agree with the points you make (for example, about what publishers want), that I would self-publish my work. My aims and those of a traditional publisher would clash, which is why I won't waste their time or mine.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
If I say "I only want one cookie," that doesn't mean I will never want anything else. The word "only" is rarely universal, it nearly always applies to a certain context. Thus if I say "I only want my novel published," that context is limited to what I do with this novel, and in no way applies that I would not do anything else in the future. The pitfalls that the author warns about if someone says that they only want their novel published can easily be avoided. I can easily avoid an unscrupulous agent by self-publishing without it costing me a thing. If I decide that I would rather self-publish than let my book languish where no one could ever read it, there's nothing wrong with that.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
Let me ask about my very real situation. I have a novel that I think is good, and I have actually workshopped it and received very positive feedback about it, but it's 196,000 words. Yeah, I know. Long. I've been trying to query it for the past year, and I almost always get immediate rejections because of the word count. I'm told I have to get it down to xxx,000 words for someone to even consider it. I might admit the book has a little fat and could lose some words, but I don't know if I could trim 30-40% of it and have it still be coherent without a major restructuring of the story.
I really hate to abandon it, because I think it's a quality work, but I'm at a loss as to what to do. The idea of going through another pass at editing it myself to get it down to a 125 or 140 (in the most generous publishers) word count is depressing considering this is a novel I finished in 2009 and have been trying to tweak ever since then. Self-publishing is alluring because I can finally just get it out there and I don't have problems with the ideas of marketing it some myself.
Should I split it into two? I haven't found a good spot to do that, but who knows . . . it might be possible if I tweak certain aspects of the story to get there. I intended it to be one story, but perhaps breaking it into two and doing minor tweaks to the story to give it an extra arc might be easier than trying to gut it with more severe edits.
Re: Attitudes toward Publishing you should avoid
(I don't always want to pimp my blog...) but I actually just did some posts on long novels (why publishers don't want to publish them and how to help cut your word count down some) You might be interested in looking at this one: http://jessicadall.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/the-unneeded-words/
As an editor I have yet this year to have yet to return a manuscript that's not at least 1,000 words shorter just with minor edits. Maybe you can see how some of the tips help with yours? they tend to really add up for longer works.