I'm currently toying with the idea of the main character in my current story being bisexual (or possibly a lesbian). However, I don't want to focus on the prejudice surrounding homosexuality in the story. I want to write their relationship like I'd write any straight relationship, without all the angst of being outcasts from society because that's really just not relevant to the plot and I feel it would make things lag a bit.
However, I haven't ever read/seen anything LBGT where the fact that the character was gay wasn't made into a major plot point. Which annoys me, as it would be nice to read a book or watch a TV show about people like me without them having a huge storyline revolving around it, re-inforcing how "abnormal" they are. You don't get straight characters having every scene focussed on how straight they are...
Anyway, my point is, is this a no-go area? If I were to try to get something like this published, do you think readers would be annoyed that the stigma of homosexuality is barely touched upon? It's not that I'm looking to write something where the characters are gay and everyone's cool with it, because obviously that's annoyingly unrealistic. But I just don't plan on involving loads of scenes where prejudice would be an issue, and I don't want the girl to have huge inner conflicts about her liking girls. I'm sure there are some people who, like me, never had a huge issue with being bisexual.
I don't know, this is getting long now. Just want to know your thoughts :)
genevie wrote: I'm currently toying with the idea of the main character in my current story being bisexual (or possibly a lesbian). However, I don't want to focus on the prejudice surrounding homosexuality in the story. I want to write their relationship like I'd write any straight relationship, without all the angst of being outcasts from society because that's really just not relevant to the plot and I feel it would make things lag a bit.
Then write it that way. Many, many authors write GLBT fiction without it turning into An Issue and only addressing it as such when the plot requires it (*raises hand*). GLBT fiction isn't always about being stigmatized by society or having GLBT characters portrayed as outcasts. There are plenty of mystery, science fiction/fantasy, romance, and other novels where the characters are simply living their lives and going about their daily business without the emphasis on possible negatives such as a character being fired or thrown out of their home by their parents. If it's a natural plot of the story (a young woman discovers she might be in love with another woman), then go with it. Otherwise, don't worry about including it; it doesn't have to be there for a story to be more realistic or entertaining.
I'm doing something very similar with my two main characters, who happen to be best friends. The end of the novel is this passionate kiss in a convention center full of strangers. The love interest is secondary to the main plot, but I don't write it as "OMG! I'm.... gay?". I write it as "OMG! I'm in love with.... my best friend?" But then, both of my characters don't care what the outside world thinks of them, so...
With_Your_Choice_of_Pseudonyms wrote: But then, both of my characters don't care what the outside world thinks of them, so...
So, in one sense they aren't real? Just about everyone cares, what the world thinks about them. It's just that a few are strong enough to not give into their perceptions of what the world thinks, and permit that to control them to some degree.
... I don't care what the world thinks about me. At all. o.o And that has nothing whatsoever to do with "perceptions" of what the world thinks, either... ;p Unless by "the world" you mean "my three friends" :P But there's a big difference between a closeknit circle of friends, and everyone in the world. ;p Most people care what their immediate circle of friends thinks, but calling that "the world" is a bit much.
I have absolutely no interest in what the world thinks of me. I don't care if the world thinks I'm ugly, stand-offish or nerdy. The only one of those that fits me is nerdy. I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than change myself to suit someone else's preconceptions or expectations. My characters live their lives the same way. Not everyone gives a frak what the world thinks. Some of us know that the rest of the world is fairly stupid.
I really don't care what the world thinks of me. I've had enough of shitty people in my past tell me that I should be different just because they think I should talk with others more than I do. Did that change me? No. Do I give a shit that they think I'm asocial, introverted, quiet,...etc. No, I even take pride in a few of those descriptions. So, in your opinion that makes me 'not real'. I must be some kind of ghost then, or from a different dimension (could make an interest plot, but I digress).
Back on topic, I don't see a problem with not making an issue out of the lgbt part and just focussing on the romance.
I wrote a novella once in which the main character fell in love with a person who wanted to paint her portrait. It wasn't so much "OMG, I'm lesbian?!" (she isn't anyway. She's bi.) but rather "Why do I keep liking her although she acts like a selfish idiot?!". I don't like the non-heterosexuality of a character turning into such a big plot point. It's not like every person defines themselves just with their sexuality. While I do not know how publishers handle the theme of homosexuality in general, I personally would really like to read the novel you're talking about. Constantly reading about prejudices can get quite depressing and I always love to read some realistic LGBT+ stories.
Whether retconned or not, J.K Rowling's portrayal of a gay character is something to think about. Some people say it didn't need to be mentioned by her at all, he wasn't overtly gay in the books, it didn't matter to the plot, and so on. Some people say quite the opposite.
What I'm trying to say is there will always be people who want more emphasis on the prejudice, and people who want it to be realistic. I'm of the second group, more or less. I don't think a character's homosexuality needs to the main focus of a piece, however I often wonder why someone would bother to include mention of sexuality (either straight or gay) if it didn't at all feature in the plot in some form.
In theory I keep to my views on this, in practice ... well I usually have a GLBT character or two, but I can't say I've ever really mentioned it. It kind of makes me feel quilty no playing it more equally against straight characters.
BUT. If the story doesn't require it, it doesn't really need to be in the book :)
I think that such a story would work, if only because I'm bisexual myself, and I'm sick to death of stories where there's always some huge storyline about Oh How Hard It Is To Be Different In A World Where Everyone Hates Us. It's been done to death to the point where I'm looking for the unrealism of "The characters are gay and no one really minds as much". It's hard to read something where someone's like me and I'm being confronted with The Issues and The Messages that are about as subtle as a grenade launcher to the face. I totally get that I'm Different, and I really don't want to be beaten about the head and shoulders with it in my fiction, thanks.
Then again I do like stories when a character falls in love with a friend of theirs, or someone that they have no business falling for, and the inner-conflict tends to be about the fact that it's their friend/their boss/a coworker/whatever.
My view is that... If I would mention sexuality in a book, it would be because it takes away the "let's assume she/he's straight". Let's say I have a character in a fantasy world. The character never has any romantic or sexual whatever throughout the book. If I wanted to, I might say he/she's gay/lesbian/bi just because, for me, that character is. And, since this world is still straight dominated, it'll equalize it a bit.
Do I think Dumbledore's sexual oriantation mattered? No more then his beard being white or his nose being broken. But just as finding out about his past explains the punch to his nose, which explains the break; his sexual oriantation explains some of his actions (or more specifically, the nature of his relationship with another character). Did the whole book revolve around it? No. But, it was mentioned in an interview, and, honestly, I don't think it's a big deal. It didn't need to be mentioned, but I think it's telling how people reacted. Especially those who are like, "but why would she turn him gay? What purpose does that serve?" What purpose does it serve Harry being straight? None. What purpose does it serve Harry to have black hair? None.
I thought I was the only one. I ended up having a huge LGBT-type subplot in my novel, but the fact that it's LGBT is not made even slightly a big deal. Mostly because:
a) My character is never actually in a relationship with the guy he's in love with, and he never tells anyone (though not because he's a guy - there are kind of bigger reasons why you wouldn't want to fall for him). It's unrequited - though even if it wasn't and they were in a relationship, I somehow don't think the fact they're two guys would bother either of them much haha. Although it would definitely bother my MC's family among other people (again, mostly for other reasons, but the fact he's a guy would probably factor in at least for his dad).
b) My character is fairly openly bisexual (he doesn't really talk about it or announce it to anyone who will listen, but if asked directly that's how he identifies) and totally comfortable with it. So liking a guy doesn't shock or bother him. He does have a lot of internal conflicts about his love interest, but they've really nothing to do with the LGBT context.
c) I really, really wanted to make my romantic subplot a love story, not an LGBT love story. Love is love in my opinion, and although I definitely know there are issues associated with being LGBT, there are bigger things going on in my story and my character has too many issues already without that. It just isn't an important part of my story, and not something I wanted to concentrate on.
The only reason I might have sexuality as a conflict in a story I'm writing is due to the character's religion (and very strong but currently simplistic faith) interacting with it. Otherwise, most of my characters seem not to care about orientations. Or if they do, there's a reason behind it. But I'm writing in modern times California and for the most part that's been my experience living here.
I think, among people who think about such things, it's generally thought that the lack of LGBT characters in which the whole plot isn't about them being LGBT is a BAD thing - that is, we want more "casual" use of LGBT characters in books.
So go ahead, I don't think anyone would be offended. Well... yeah, some people would be offended, but only the ones who'd be offended by an LGBT character no matter what.
That said, it might ring as unrealistic if there's no recognition of the world we're living in - even if that recognition just takes the form of some side character acting surprised to meet the main character's partner, or a mention of some relative who's been a bit distant since he "found out" about it, or something. Strike a balance between making the "struggle to be accepted" central to the plot and making it seem like the story takes place in an alternate world where LGBT people have never been oppressed.
I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, realistically, I've been in a couple of situations where someone announced that they or someone they know is gay, and did not get any more of a reaction than if they had said they were straight. Just kind of an "...Okay." response.
"My step-mom's coming to get me." "Your Dad remarried?" "Nope, my mom." "Oh. Okay."
I think the 'natural' evolution of most marginalised populations entering the mainstream is that, to start with, people are only interested in what makes them marginalised (and the other marginalised people are mostly looking to have that reflected in a story for once), but over time, in the same way that a gay dude doesn't want his straight friends to think of him as 'my gay friend', everyone just starts acknowledging stuff as normal, and marginalised people, as part of not being stuck on the margins any more, get to write about whatever they like.
(Marginalised marginalised. Now it's just fun to pronounce.)
Anyway, of the three core couples in my last NaNo project, one is royalty who are happily married but mostly off-page, one is a couple of knights who are having Relationship Issues due to unresolved problems from the recent war, and one is a mime who we see run into a cute doctor when his boss tries to assassinate a foreign dignitary. The royals are a king and queen, the knights are a guy and gal, and the mime and doctor are both dudes. There's no indication that the last one is viewed as 'abnormal' at all, and if we ever meet the mime's family, they're going to be desperately happy that their son didn't marry someone from the circus.
(Mind you, I'm writing fantasy, so in addition to magic that flies in the face of all physical laws, I'm feeling fine about a world that doesn't have institutional sexism or racism either. There is one villain who tries to use racial division to throw someone off-balance, but she's a terrible person and her remarks are of the form of "Doesn't being practically the only person in this city of your ethnicity make you feel freakish and alone sometimes?" The eventual answer proves to be "No, these are my people.")
In my romance story it's a big deal only because it's set in America in the late 50's, early 60's. In my fantasy one there are two gay characters and no one really cares. The guy is infatuated by the leader and has been manipulated because of this when he was little but the focus is on the one sided romance, and not the fact they're both dudes. I never even say the other one is gay. She didn't see the need to tell anyone. My world is open about sexuality and despite my main character not being sexually interested in guys, he often seduces people to get his way.
Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I'm currently toying with the idea of the main character in my current story being bisexual (or possibly a lesbian). However, I don't want to focus on the prejudice surrounding homosexuality in the story. I want to write their relationship like I'd write any straight relationship, without all the angst of being outcasts from society because that's really just not relevant to the plot and I feel it would make things lag a bit.
However, I haven't ever read/seen anything LBGT where the fact that the character was gay wasn't made into a major plot point. Which annoys me, as it would be nice to read a book or watch a TV show about people like me without them having a huge storyline revolving around it, re-inforcing how "abnormal" they are. You don't get straight characters having every scene focussed on how straight they are...
Anyway, my point is, is this a no-go area? If I were to try to get something like this published, do you think readers would be annoyed that the stigma of homosexuality is barely touched upon? It's not that I'm looking to write something where the characters are gay and everyone's cool with it, because obviously that's annoyingly unrealistic. But I just don't plan on involving loads of scenes where prejudice would be an issue, and I don't want the girl to have huge inner conflicts about her liking girls. I'm sure there are some people who, like me, never had a huge issue with being bisexual.
I don't know, this is getting long now. Just want to know your thoughts :)
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
*LGBT
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
Then write it that way. Many, many authors write GLBT fiction without it turning into An Issue and only addressing it as such when the plot requires it (*raises hand*). GLBT fiction isn't always about being stigmatized by society or having GLBT characters portrayed as outcasts. There are plenty of mystery, science fiction/fantasy, romance, and other novels where the characters are simply living their lives and going about their daily business without the emphasis on possible negatives such as a character being fired or thrown out of their home by their parents. If it's a natural plot of the story (a young woman discovers she might be in love with another woman), then go with it. Otherwise, don't worry about including it; it doesn't have to be there for a story to be more realistic or entertaining.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I'm doing something very similar with my two main characters, who happen to be best friends. The end of the novel is this passionate kiss in a convention center full of strangers. The love interest is secondary to the main plot, but I don't write it as "OMG! I'm.... gay?". I write it as "OMG! I'm in love with.... my best friend?" But then, both of my characters don't care what the outside world thinks of them, so...
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
So, in one sense they aren't real? Just about everyone cares, what the world thinks about them. It's just that a few are strong enough to not give into their perceptions of what the world thinks, and permit that to control them to some degree.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
... I don't care what the world thinks about me. At all. o.o And that has nothing whatsoever to do with "perceptions" of what the world thinks, either... ;p Unless by "the world" you mean "my three friends" :P But there's a big difference between a closeknit circle of friends, and everyone in the world. ;p Most people care what their immediate circle of friends thinks, but calling that "the world" is a bit much.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I have absolutely no interest in what the world thinks of me. I don't care if the world thinks I'm ugly, stand-offish or nerdy. The only one of those that fits me is nerdy. I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than change myself to suit someone else's preconceptions or expectations. My characters live their lives the same way. Not everyone gives a frak what the world thinks. Some of us know that the rest of the world is fairly stupid.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I really don't care what the world thinks of me. I've had enough of shitty people in my past tell me that I should be different just because they think I should talk with others more than I do. Did that change me? No. Do I give a shit that they think I'm asocial, introverted, quiet,...etc. No, I even take pride in a few of those descriptions. So, in your opinion that makes me 'not real'. I must be some kind of ghost then, or from a different dimension (could make an interest plot, but I digress).
Back on topic, I don't see a problem with not making an issue out of the lgbt part and just focussing on the romance.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I wrote a novella once in which the main character fell in love with a person who wanted to paint her portrait. It wasn't so much "OMG, I'm lesbian?!" (she isn't anyway. She's bi.) but rather "Why do I keep liking her although she acts like a selfish idiot?!". I don't like the non-heterosexuality of a character turning into such a big plot point. It's not like every person defines themselves just with their sexuality.
While I do not know how publishers handle the theme of homosexuality in general, I personally would really like to read the novel you're talking about. Constantly reading about prejudices can get quite depressing and I always love to read some realistic LGBT+ stories.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
Whether retconned or not, J.K Rowling's portrayal of a gay character is something to think about. Some people say it didn't need to be mentioned by her at all, he wasn't overtly gay in the books, it didn't matter to the plot, and so on. Some people say quite the opposite.
What I'm trying to say is there will always be people who want more emphasis on the prejudice, and people who want it to be realistic. I'm of the second group, more or less. I don't think a character's homosexuality needs to the main focus of a piece, however I often wonder why someone would bother to include mention of sexuality (either straight or gay) if it didn't at all feature in the plot in some form.
In theory I keep to my views on this, in practice ... well I usually have a GLBT character or two, but I can't say I've ever really mentioned it. It kind of makes me feel quilty no playing it more equally against straight characters.
BUT. If the story doesn't require it, it doesn't really need to be in the book :)
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I think that such a story would work, if only because I'm bisexual myself, and I'm sick to death of stories where there's always some huge storyline about Oh How Hard It Is To Be Different In A World Where Everyone Hates Us. It's been done to death to the point where I'm looking for the unrealism of "The characters are gay and no one really minds as much". It's hard to read something where someone's like me and I'm being confronted with The Issues and The Messages that are about as subtle as a grenade launcher to the face. I totally get that I'm Different, and I really don't want to be beaten about the head and shoulders with it in my fiction, thanks.
Then again I do like stories when a character falls in love with a friend of theirs, or someone that they have no business falling for, and the inner-conflict tends to be about the fact that it's their friend/their boss/a coworker/whatever.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
My view is that... If I would mention sexuality in a book, it would be because it takes away the "let's assume she/he's straight". Let's say I have a character in a fantasy world. The character never has any romantic or sexual whatever throughout the book. If I wanted to, I might say he/she's gay/lesbian/bi just because, for me, that character is. And, since this world is still straight dominated, it'll equalize it a bit.
Do I think Dumbledore's sexual oriantation mattered? No more then his beard being white or his nose being broken. But just as finding out about his past explains the punch to his nose, which explains the break; his sexual oriantation explains some of his actions (or more specifically, the nature of his relationship with another character). Did the whole book revolve around it? No. But, it was mentioned in an interview, and, honestly, I don't think it's a big deal. It didn't need to be mentioned, but I think it's telling how people reacted. Especially those who are like, "but why would she turn him gay? What purpose does that serve?" What purpose does it serve Harry being straight? None. What purpose does it serve Harry to have black hair? None.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I thought I was the only one. I ended up having a huge LGBT-type subplot in my novel, but the fact that it's LGBT is not made even slightly a big deal. Mostly because:
a) My character is never actually in a relationship with the guy he's in love with, and he never tells anyone (though not because he's a guy - there are kind of bigger reasons why you wouldn't want to fall for him). It's unrequited - though even if it wasn't and they were in a relationship, I somehow don't think the fact they're two guys would bother either of them much haha. Although it would definitely bother my MC's family among other people (again, mostly for other reasons, but the fact he's a guy would probably factor in at least for his dad).
b) My character is fairly openly bisexual (he doesn't really talk about it or announce it to anyone who will listen, but if asked directly that's how he identifies) and totally comfortable with it. So liking a guy doesn't shock or bother him. He does have a lot of internal conflicts about his love interest, but they've really nothing to do with the LGBT context.
c) I really, really wanted to make my romantic subplot a love story, not an LGBT love story. Love is love in my opinion, and although I definitely know there are issues associated with being LGBT, there are bigger things going on in my story and my character has too many issues already without that. It just isn't an important part of my story, and not something I wanted to concentrate on.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
Three words: Mass Effect 3.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
The only reason I might have sexuality as a conflict in a story I'm writing is due to the character's religion (and very strong but currently simplistic faith) interacting with it. Otherwise, most of my characters seem not to care about orientations. Or if they do, there's a reason behind it. But I'm writing in modern times California and for the most part that's been my experience living here.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I think, among people who think about such things, it's generally thought that the lack of LGBT characters in which the whole plot isn't about them being LGBT is a BAD thing - that is, we want more "casual" use of LGBT characters in books.
So go ahead, I don't think anyone would be offended. Well... yeah, some people would be offended, but only the ones who'd be offended by an LGBT character no matter what.
That said, it might ring as unrealistic if there's no recognition of the world we're living in - even if that recognition just takes the form of some side character acting surprised to meet the main character's partner, or a mention of some relative who's been a bit distant since he "found out" about it, or something. Strike a balance between making the "struggle to be accepted" central to the plot and making it seem like the story takes place in an alternate world where LGBT people have never been oppressed.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean, realistically, I've been in a couple of situations where someone announced that they or someone they know is gay, and did not get any more of a reaction than if they had said they were straight. Just kind of an "...Okay." response.
"My step-mom's coming to get me."
"Your Dad remarried?"
"Nope, my mom."
"Oh. Okay."
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
Sorry. I meant to put LGBT. Man, I miss the edit button.
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
I think the 'natural' evolution of most marginalised populations entering the mainstream is that, to start with, people are only interested in what makes them marginalised (and the other marginalised people are mostly looking to have that reflected in a story for once), but over time, in the same way that a gay dude doesn't want his straight friends to think of him as 'my gay friend', everyone just starts acknowledging stuff as normal, and marginalised people, as part of not being stuck on the margins any more, get to write about whatever they like.
(Marginalised marginalised. Now it's just fun to pronounce.)
Anyway, of the three core couples in my last NaNo project, one is royalty who are happily married but mostly off-page, one is a couple of knights who are having Relationship Issues due to unresolved problems from the recent war, and one is a mime who we see run into a cute doctor when his boss tries to assassinate a foreign dignitary. The royals are a king and queen, the knights are a guy and gal, and the mime and doctor are both dudes. There's no indication that the last one is viewed as 'abnormal' at all, and if we ever meet the mime's family, they're going to be desperately happy that their son didn't marry someone from the circus.
(Mind you, I'm writing fantasy, so in addition to magic that flies in the face of all physical laws, I'm feeling fine about a world that doesn't have institutional sexism or racism either. There is one villain who tries to use racial division to throw someone off-balance, but she's a terrible person and her remarks are of the form of "Doesn't being practically the only person in this city of your ethnicity make you feel freakish and alone sometimes?" The eventual answer proves to be "No, these are my people.")
Re: Writing LBGT without addressing the "issue"?
In my romance story it's a big deal only because it's set in America in the late 50's, early 60's.
In my fantasy one there are two gay characters and no one really cares. The guy is infatuated by the leader and has been manipulated because of this when he was little but the focus is on the one sided romance, and not the fact they're both dudes. I never even say the other one is gay. She didn't see the need to tell anyone. My world is open about sexuality and despite my main character not being sexually interested in guys, he often seduces people to get his way.