The 'Pefect' Guy? http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940 CaveatLector So, I'm working on a new novel, which I've had the idea for for what seems like ages. It boils down to "A guy gets killed in a traffic-accident, and wakes up in a strange place..." One of my problems, though, is that of the main character. I want to create a 'perfect guy', who knows perfectly well how attractive/intelligent/charming he is. However, I'm a lesbian, so I'm not entirely sure what a 'perfect guy' would be. I'll describe what I got so far: He's tall, broad-ish, slender and athletic - but without being too big. Swimmer-like, I suppose. Half-long golden hair that he intentionally keeps a little unruly, slightly tanned skin, midnight blue eyes. He has a broad, charming smile. He's terribly intelligent, but he's currently taking a year off from studying to work (in a café) and figure out what he wants to do - considering Latin, but he's not sure. He's friendly, funny, understanding, accepting, knows when to be serious, romantic yet subtle, outgoing yet reserved... And of course, this is just what he shows people - in reality he's extremely arrogant, manipulative and cold to the point of being emotionally dead, though he's not a sociopath or anything; he just thinks he's too good for the people he's met so far. (He's Danish because I am, and I love living in Copenhagen and always wanted to set a story here) My question to you guys is: What is a 'perfect guy' for you? Daniel (which is his name so far) is, on the outside, excatly the kind of guy I'd love to be friends with. How about you? Mon, 06 Feb 2012 05:37:18 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119585 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119585 Red Queen Okay, I can imagine he's gorgeous, but... how does "friendly, accepting and understanding" go with "cold and manipulative because he thinks himself to be too good for everyone around him"? ô.O He's either one or the other. If it's like you describe, he is really bordering being a sociopath. If he's not, then I can't imagine he's really that emotionally cold. If someone's that arrogant, this shows. No-one would think of him as only the friendly guy next door. Some people - probably a lot - would actually see him as arrogant and manipulative. I admit I am a little arrogant, too. I managed to get rid of that attitude for the most part, but it still shows sometimes, and people do notice. When I think someone's too dumb to talk to, the person knows that, and reacts accordingly. I can't help it, it's how I am. But if I was able to hide it so well that I come across as sweet, kind and generally a totally nice person, that would be a trait of a sociopath. I'm not saying that he is one; he can be a little snobbish, but still a generally cool guy people like. He can be emotionally distant and still be a good friend to certain people. But all of what you mentioned goes hardly hand in hand in only one person. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:42:00 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119644 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119644 CaveatLector Well, that's kind of the point - he's perfectly aware that he's supposed to be a friendly guy-next-door, so even though he's really not, he pretends to be. Because appearences mean everything to Daniel, and he knows that he won't get very far by being the douchebag he really is deep down. But he's not a sociopath; during the story he's going to go through a lot of emotions and get a lot of development. He just knows how to behave around people and he knows what kind of guy he should be - which is the nice and sweet kind. Have you ever been the only sober person at a party? Y'know, really feeling that everyone else is acting like complete idiots, but you're still smiling and holding back their hair as they throw up even though you just want to go home? That's Daniel, all the time. The reason I asked about what 'the perfect guy' is, is so I can have something to mold his fake personality over. But of course, you're right - being arrogant, cold and manipulative are far from what you'd want in a perfect man. Which is why he tries to hide it. And yes, some people are bound to notice, but that's actually going to be a plot-point - like a bad spiral where someone gets close to him and notices what he's really like, he distances himself from them, and that just makes him more fake, etc. Aah, sorry to sound defensive, I just think you misunderstood what I meant :) Also, "a certain affinity for arguing" might be a good idea... Thanks for the reply! (: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:04:47 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119654 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119654 CaveatLector But yeah, he is on the sociopathic side of the fake-people-scale. And I wouldn't mind at all, but he can't be with the development I have planned out for him. "There was this sociopath, but then stuff happened and he stopped being a sociopath" makes absolutely no sense, haha. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:13:26 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119660 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119660 Red Queen Okay, now I get what you mean. Guess that could work, as long as it's not done to the extreme. As long as he's "the guy people like" and not "the guy everybody loves", this could really work. That would be a little too unrealistic for my taste. But maybe that's just me... And I have been the only sober person on a party (along with one other friend who never drinks), and I get that one. But we both are a little... arrogant and sarcastic anyway, and it's not like we really care what people we hardly know think, so we didn't actually try to hide that we were making fun of the drunk people all the time. So maybe that's why I assume people would notice his arrogance. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:21:34 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119675 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119675 CaveatLector I'm trying my best not to overdo it and keep it as realistic as possible. I'm trying to go for "That guy leaves a great first impression, but he's not a good person", only the guy in question does his absolute best to keep it at that first impression. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:41:49 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119704 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119704 Webgoji From a guy's perspective (take with a grain of salt), your description immediately had me tagging him as a shallow jerk. Just from appearances, never mind the personality he portrays. The reason being, he fits all the stereotypes. Slightly messy hair? Of course, because he's a bad-boy. Works in a cafe? Yeah, he's sensitive. (Not McDonalds mind you, a cafe.) Athletic? Because everyone has time to stay schmexy. Brilliant, but not sure about his future? Aw, he needs someone to guide him along. Let's the girlfriend play the "mom" gag. I would beat this guy up the minute I saw him . . . and I'm a Buddhist! I would assume someone who breaks the stereotypes and is a little "off-beat" would better fall into the "perfect guy" category. Maybe healthy, but not buff because he spends time reading instead of the gym. Keeps his hair neat and clean, but not mussed like the Axe commercials. You know, not what the commercials portray. But my perspective isn't that of what women are necessarily looking for. So . . . yeah, I'll crawl back under my rock now. hehe Mon, 06 Feb 2012 12:29:51 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119918 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119918 Angryman To me, one thing that makes anyone "perfect" is that they are always confident of themselves. I think that would a quality to throw into your character. Mon, 06 Feb 2012 17:40:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1120459 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1120459 iinsanely Sane Haven't read all the comments above, but this does remind me a lot of my ex. You can go down the: purposely pretending to be nice even though he's not, OR you can go down the: really wants to find someone as intelligent as him and doesn't mean to be so judgemental. That's my ex. When you meet my ex, you think he's the coolest guy in the world. Always smiling, getting along with everyone, good looking, knows it too, subtle (like you said), gives you these looks YOU think are just personal to you, and seriously every single girl in the school has an attraction to him. He has a voice too, likes to be individual and original (to the point where he changes speech mannerisms to stand out and thinks differently) and so he strikes you as very interesting. Now, however, I roll my eyes every time he does one of these things and really I hate it now, but every single girl falls for it. I have never seen someone who hasn't. So by any means, if this fits Daniel, PM me with questions. :) Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:54:51 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1122437 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1122437 Writing_Ninja So, what kind of perfect are you looking for? Because he sounds like a jerk to me. I'm kinda confused in what you are asking. Perfect as in people will like him all around? Perfect as in he tries his best to do the right thing? Perfect physical looks? Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:27:50 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1122765 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1122765 Spuggey I'm gonna do the usual rant at such questions: There is no such thing as a perfect guy. That's it. Attraction is subjective: we all have different opinions. I do not find blonde/golden hair attractive, I prefer dark brown or black. Same with eyes, I much prefer brown to any other colour. I quite like short guys (I'm only 5'3") and 'broad' is also not on the list. I like people who're 'cute' (in a boyish way, not an effeminate way!) rather than traditionally handsome. So possibly the physical opposite of your character! As for personality, as stated above... Yeah, he sounds like a shallow jerk and an insuffereable bore. Traits I like? Non-threatening, kind, talkative, NOT TOO FAR UP THEMSELVES. That's always good. Intelligent is great, but not in a rams-down-your-throat-how-smart-they-are way. Also, someone above mentions confidence. Confidence is good, but CONSTANT confidence, in EVERYTHING is leaning closer to arrogance. Some self-doubt and vulnerability, without being a constant moany wuss, is endearing and human. I'm not saying my ideal is better than any other, I'm merely stating that it's impossible to create a perfect person. Some people will love your character and think he's stunning, others will not. I think you know this already, but I have to have this rant because I'm on a personal crusade against ideals of beauty... Anyway, one thing that is not attractive is being two faced and this character sounds it. I hope people do beat him up, even the Buddhists. :) That's my two pence worth! Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:12:45 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124296 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124296 Honeybadger12345 What do you mean exactly? If you mean "stock character perfect," then the unruly blonde hair, blue eyes, tanned skin works. For some reason, guys always seem to look like that in terrible teen films. However, as the above poster said, attraction is subjective. There is no true definition of perfect. I personally prefer green eyes and for whatever reason, guys with blonde hair immediately annoy me. As people said, he doesn't sound perfect in any way. He sounds like the guy the girl crushes on in the beginning, and than once she goes out with him after taking off her glasses and straightening her hair, he turns out to be a total ass. He, right now, sounds arrogant and annoying. Being stereotypically "perfect" is also somewhat unattractive. It makes people resent you. Self-defacing qualities always add more humanity and likableness to a character. I know you said he covers up his true, arrogant demeanor with charm and friendliness, but realistically, this is difficult to do. To be truly nice and understanding to people one second, but than be the worst person ever another? I'm not even sure how this works exactly. He'd have to be a true method actor to accomplish such a thing, and even then... Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:31:00 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124431 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124431 inthemargins Haha, here's my two cents (I might end up being a penny short, though). If it's only a façade that he's putting on, he doesn't need to be "perfect" all around (and I see you took some heat from the word choice). He only needs to be perfect for whoever he's currently talking to. What he needs to have is the ability to read the atmosphere and constantly adjust to it. He'll know when Mary's faking a smile and pick up her tab just in case. Jake's girlfriend will hang around him too much, so he'll pass that extra ticket to the game on to him, and remind him that her favourite flowers are daffodils. He'll be exactly as you've described, just with certain tweaks depending on who's bothering him at the moment. Also important, like iinsanely Sane mentioned, is the reason why he's doing it. A really smart person (and a complete and utter jerkoff) might think it's a nice challenge. Haha, how many people can I fool? (Also think: I lost my wallet, guys, can I borrow a fifty? when it's in his glove compartment and he knows it.) Or does he feel guilty for being this emotionally cold guy, and wants people to think he's nice? (Also known as sugar-coating things.) How much time does he spend around other people? It's easier to pretend to people you don't know than, for example, to your coworker, who'll see you stressed and not. your. best. Another big question: Why does he need to be perfect? Physical/sexual attractiveness is a whole other threshold to cross. You won't find one type that fits all. Side note: From my experiences with guys named Daniel... perfect name. XD Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:20:57 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124973 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1124973 OnyxFlame Personally, I find guys who know how charming/intelligent/etc they are to be definitely UNcharming/intelligent/etc. Ever notice that all the hot guys KNOW they're hot and then get on your nerves because of it? My idea of a "perfect" guy wouldn't hinge much on what he looked like - ok he couldn't be too tall or too fat, but hair/eye color wouldn't matter. I like guys with long hair, but that wouldn't really matter either if his personality was cool. Basically he'd be interested in at least some of what I'm interested in - gaming, reading/writing, art, certain TV shows or music or whatever. He'd be the typical list of characteristics you see (honest, sensitive, loyal, etc), but which have probably never all existed in one person heh. He wouldn't freak out if I farted. I'm a gassy person, ok? I insist on farting whenever I feel like it in my own home. Deal with it. He wouldn't watch football all day (though I wouldn't mind if he played video games all day, as long as he was doing it with me :P). He wouldn't treat me like crap, either intentionally or out of being completely clueless. He'd have more than a couple of brain cells to rub together, and would have enough money that I wouldn't have to get a job, but he'd also have a job where he didn't have to be gone all the time. And I could write more but I'm out of time. :( Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:57:49 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1126276 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1126276 Harlow Actually, my main male character is a very attractive sociopath. He's not simply cold - he is unable to empathize with others. His emotions are on the surface, but aren't deep. His love interest is a woman that he is genuinely attracted to, he finds her incredibly beautiful and enjoys her, but he also has this burning desire to break and control her. My tastes in men are pretty wide. My boyfriend is a nerdy white guy with short brown hair, hazel eyes, very pale skin that burns before tanning, square-framed glasses, isn't very tall and has a lean frame. I love him to death and he is extremely attractive to me. My MMC is an Englishman of Italian Descent, with long black hair that he keeps in a ponytail and really light green eyes. He also is tall (stands 6'1" and a half), has a muscular build with scarring on his chest from combat, and a tanned/olive skintone. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 01:41:37 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133299 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133299 Aneith A "perfect" guy would have healthy self esteem. There are signs that someone is manipulative. However, if his potential girlfriend(s) are naive, believe that the "romance" in popular media is romantic, ignore their instincts, and/or have some idea that they are the exception, can change him, or "see his potential," he could trick someone with low self esteem into thinking he's the perfect boyfriend. Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:06:40 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1137802 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1137802 Sampora I agree with Spuggey that Attraction is subjective. Personally I go weak for dark eyes and dark hair, because I like the warmth in them. So if you're trying to achieve a 'perfect' looking character, maybe forgo the specifics? For instance- maybe you could say something like "He had the sort of eyes that made girls tremble" instead of having midnight blue ones. Then the reader is left to develop their own opinion. Tall and a cute smile is generally a winner for most girls though. I also think girls like a mysterious guy. I would make him be friendly to everybody, but just distant enough so that nobody gets to know him well enough. I think girls like the challenge of being the one who broke him from his shell (plus, it's definitely easier to hide his manipulative side if he's distant) Tue, 14 Feb 2012 21:05:29 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1140603 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1140603 Hanka I think he should be that kind of guy who talks to everyone like they were their best friend. He listens to you, he makes you feel comforting, he makes you feel unique - even though you know it's what he does for everyone else. There are many people who try to be like this but just a few who really make you think that you're someone special. I knwo one of those people and I like him although I am totally aware of the fact that it's not for me, it is his personality. I don't think that Daniels looks are that important.Some people just make that up with huge self-confidence and a kind of ... aura, you know what I mean ;P Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:09:55 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141353 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141353 Red Queen Forgot to mention; cut the second part (the "cold and manipulative" part), leave him a little arrogant (that's actually not so bad at all), and add a certain affinity for arguing, and I'd marry him on the spot :) Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:46:21 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119647 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1119647 CaveatLector Heh, thanks. I suppose he does seem like a shallow douchebag a bit... Hmm. But I'm actually glad to hear that he's a bit 'too' perfect - I'm going for a deconstruction of a Gary Stu, I suppose. Although I think he has dudes wanting to beat him up a lot. Buddhists too. But thanks, I'll keep your words in mind. And thanks for the reply (: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 15:30:51 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1120169 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1120169 lasalle202 [quote=inthemargins] Physical/sexual attractiveness is a whole other threshold to cross. You won't find one type that fits all. [/quote] i would suggest going very generic. *He was classically handsome, with a slight bend to his nose that drew you into his eyes. *She was reminded of someone who had played a romantic lead in a teen comedy from the 80's who had aged gracefully into adulthood. something that suggests "good looking" but leaves the details of what exactly that is to the reader. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:48:43 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127563 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127563 Spuggey "Tall and a cute smile is generally a winner for most girls though." See, this is why I always feel the need to put in a vote for the short ones! ;) Wed, 15 Feb 2012 05:34:44 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141329 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/plot-doctoring/threads/49940?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141329