Gay best friend

jefflion — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:18:47 -0800

I encountered a problem with two of my characters. I don't seem to get their relationship right. They are teen boys (about 14-15 years old), best friends from the kindergarten and all. They have their band and spend all of their time together. One of them is my MC. Now, his friend opens one day to him: turns out he's gay. Now, I'm not sure how to realistically portray their relationship from now on. The funny (?) thing is, I can better picture the gay friend's reactions and not my MC reactions (I'm a straight girl with more straight than gay friends, that's why I said it's funny). The gay friend is still discovering his sexuality and personality (like all teens do), and he has no romantic feelings for the MC (I want to escape this cliche). But my MC is what I'm having problems with. I don't want to be PC about it; I want to portray his reaction realistically, like a real 15 year old boy would react. He's not homophobic in a way he thinks there's something wrong with his friend... But then again, something's changed in their relationships and this is where more subtle homophobia (I'm sure many (most of?) people have in them) comes in. Maybe he feels uncomfortable to change his clothes in front of his friend? Or stuff like that. I need these things, and I'd love to hear people's real experiences from both sides, if possible. None of my straight or my gay friends was in this situation so I don't know how to approach it. The friend being gay is crucial for the plot and their friendship is one of the most important things in the book, so I really want to make this right. (If it's of any relevance, it's happening in the mid 90s). There's another similar thread, but it doesn't answer my questions. Hope somebody can help me here.

Re: Gay best friend

throughasplendour — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 23:47:44 -0800

It's going to depend on the dynamic of their relationship. I'm a gay man, and I had an almost exclusively male group of friends when I first came out. The guys I was most comfortable with would often jokingly flirt back and forth anyway. After I came out I guess there was another layer to that, but if anything changed it just made me more obnoxiously over-the-top about it. One of my friends, we liked each other a lot, but he wasn't one to talk about deep topics - he was a very private person, basically. Mostly we played video games and talked about books together. My relationship with him was literally unchanged (as far as I can tell). We were never in situations that were likely to be altered by my coming out because of the nature of the friendship. You brought up the idea of being uncomfortable with changing clothes. There's also the reverse of enjoying the attention, or showing off. I had a truly bizarre moment fairly recently with a guy I'd known since long before I came out, when he (jokingly; part of his humour is that he's incredibly cocky) said that since I'm attracted to men, that meant I must be desperate to have sex with him (he was less PG-13 about it though). It was like being objectified without actually being objectified.

Re: Gay best friend

jefflion — Wed, 22 Feb 2012 06:07:58 -0800

Thanks for your answer. I guess it's easier for me to figure out the friend, mainly because I don't get to spend the time inside his head and I only have to describe his behavior. He has a very complicated relationship with one guy at his school, but his friendship with my MC is pretty straightforward. Since they know each other for, well, always (they're neighbors) and they grew up together, they are very close and he is, more or less, the only person my MC is close to. But he's a 15 year old boy (and a future celebrity/womanizer - the novel follows him through years and the teen years are just part of the novel), and he does have some homophobia in him, I think. Not in a violent level, or not even on a level where he thinks it's wrong to be gay. But there's obviously something since he does perceive his relationship to his friend - at least initially - as somehow different. And it can't be the "you aren't who I thought you were; why did you hide this from me, don't you trust me" moment, because the friend is figuring out who he is and my MC is the first to know. So he's happy and flattered about this trust (he has a complicated family situation and nobody he can trust in his life, so he's happy to have his friend). On the other hand, he is confused about it initially and he needs time to get his friendship back on track (which will never happen, for the reasons unrelated to the friend being gay). So this is where I have problems with; I can't seem to get my MC's reactions right. He's not the one who'd joke about the whole thing, at least not initially, mainly because his friend is bullied and, on the other hand, because he envisioned their partying and the future "rockstar life" (the kid really wants to be a rock star, and actually believes this will happen), and he doesn't know how to process the idea of his friend being gay into this. He's not really "scare" that the friend might be attracted to him, but he's unable to see the friend and their friendship as the same initially. I know what I want to show in theory, but I guess I miss the little "show, don't tell" things. I just don't seem to get into this guy's head. Maybe I'm just clueless about the way men are, which sucks, because this part of the story has to be told from his POV, to show his coming of age and the way he became famous.

Re: Gay best friend

RionaDaidouji — Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:10:25 -0800

Hm.... Some of the things I've noticed with some of the folks I've come out to is that there just seems to be a bit more moments of awkward silence, for a little while. It eventually goes away for most friends, but it's like... the fact that I'm out hopped in the front of the line in terms of stuff to talk about or whatever, and you have to kind of inch around it to find a less awkward conversation. Kind of hard to describe. Most awkward thing was one friend who liked to constantly bring up the fact that she was okay with me being gay. Often in the middle of another conversation about random geeky stuff. And I was all "Well, yes, that's great, but I already know this, and what does it have to do with Star Wars?" So maybe your MC could do something like that, kind of try to be overly reassuring that he's okay with it, while his friend rolls his eyes and is all "Okay, I get it!". And in one way, it's kind of off-putting, because I never did find out what kept prompting her to mention it, so once again, you could have that awkwardness between them. I think awkwardness is really the biggest thing. It kind of shows that he's trying to be accepting, and really kind of is accepting in the long run, but just has trouble wrapping his mind around things. Oh, and another thing I just thought of. My straight female friends love to apologise to me when they comment on a guy being hot. They'll be like "Oh, man, he's gorgeous... Sorry Riona, I know you're not into that, but... Damn! He's hot!". More eye rolling on my part there.

Re: Gay best friend

dancer_kirsten — Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:46:53 -0800

Just a small thing to add: make the gay guy comment on how gorgeous a woman is -- that should surprise some people. I mean, I'm not into men, but I sure know a good-looking man when I see one, and I gladly join my straight friends in some fangirling over Johnnie Depp when appropriate. Just because your guy is not into women, doesn't mean he cannot notice the pretty specimens of 50% of the world population. ;)

Re: Gay best friend

jefflion — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 00:13:28 -0800

Thanks for your reply. Yes, some people, even if they want to be supportive, are confused around those of a different sexual orientation. I might understand this with strangers, but if someone is your friend, you should know this person well enough to talk to them. Still, many people find it awkward. So, I think I'll make their initial conversations/interaction awkward from my MC's part. And the [quote=RionaDaidouji] Oh, and another thing I just thought of. My straight female friends love to apologise to me when they comment on a guy being hot. They'll be like "Oh, man, he's gorgeous... Sorry Riona, I know you're not into that, but... Damn! He's hot!". More eye rolling on my part there. [/quote] This is a very important point and perhaps what will make it awkward for my MC the most. He was all about doing stuff together with his friend, and I guess that went for picking up girls (well, they are kids, but I'm talking about this guy's mind, and in his mind, he's not 15). He was all about doing "guys'" stuff together with his friend, and now he feels like he can't do them because his friend is gay. Which is silly in so many ways, considering the fact they are still in the band together and share most of the interests. But for some reason he thinks many of these things are impossible because his friend is not attracted to girls.

Re: Gay best friend

jefflion — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 00:17:47 -0800

Oh yes, this too. Thanks for reminding me. Yes, some people find this surprising. While straight girls often don't have any problems commenting on how gorgeous a certain woman is, straight guys never comment on how attractive a guy is. On the other hand, many are surprised when gays comment on how someone of the opposite sex is good looking, unless it's something like "I envy her hair" or "I love that scarf", as if gay people are all into other gender's clothes. I don't know, I'm straight but I can tell if a woman is pretty and I can tell if she's pretty to me even if she's not seen as such by others (and I can say she's not pretty to me even if everybody thinks she is).

Re: Gay best friend

FreakierThanThou — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:44:02 -0800

When I came out to my best female friend (who I've known about as much of my life as your characters have known each other) as bi, she asked if I was sure, and when I said yes, just sort of treated me like she always did, except she now asks if I have a crush on any "cute dudes or ladies" instead of just "dudes" when we talk. But I've had a couple of less fun experiences. One person I came out to asked if I had ever dated a girl, and when I said no, was really confused as to how I knew I was bi. (Yes, because you can't be attracted to someone if you're not in a relationship with them.) Another person was very, very curious about the whole thing and kept asking me really dumb or personal questions. "Do you feel manlier when you're with a woman?" "What do lesbians do?" "How did you figure it out?" "If you liked someone and they got a sex change, would you still like them?" "I've never been attracted to a man, but I like David Tennant's hair. Am I gay?" "Hey, do you know if ____ is into girls?" I think the "using your gay friend as Wikipedia for all things gay" is the most obnoxious "not exactly homophobic but still pretty bad" reaction out there. It's sort of like asking your Chinese friend if they know how to make sushi, or assuming your black friend knows all the black people in town.

Re: Gay best friend

jefflion — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 13:15:15 -0800

This too, yes. One of the first questions asked by my MC will probably be: "are you sure? How do you know?" (The friend has never been in a relationship and has no romantic experience). Still, it's an incredibly dumb question. I don't think he'll ask many personal questions, because, frankly, the last thing he wants to know is how his friend feels about other guys or what he'd like to do with them. I'd say my MC will be more reserved in this manner, even too reserved, because you can't just deny this part of your friend's life. I think my MC might be along the lines of: "I support you, and I'd hurt anybody who says or does something bad to you... But please don't elaborate on this and please don't share any details". And yes, using the people you know as some sort of "native informants" on all the things gay/black/foreign is a problem on its own. But I don't think my MC will be like this.

Re: Gay best friend

RionaDaidouji — Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:38:30 -0800

OMG, I've had people ask me if I would still like a girl if she got a sex change to a guy, too! I think these people have a very poor idea of how much time and psychology goes into a sex change.

Re: Gay best friend

FreakierThanThou — Sun, 26 Feb 2012 15:25:20 -0800

In this case I think my friend meant "do you have a different "type" for men and women," which I sort of do, but not to the extent that I think someone's sex changing would remove whatever attraction I had for them. They'd still be the same person, you know? So it was more a bad example than anything else, but still kind of a dumb question.

Re: Gay best friend

artofcheatery — Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:18:26 -0800

How I worked this out in a past NaNo (where is was backstory) the gay character came out to the MC and the MC's reactive was "You sure are, your point?". And then the gay character ruined the moment by asking his best friend out on a date (that's an extremely polite way of referring to what he suggested they do) and ruined the moment. They eventually work this issue out. My MC in that story has many problems but none of those include caring at all for his best friend's sexual orientation. If anything he looks at it as "More chicks for me" and "no worries about my girlfriend cheating on me with him". On the other hand, the gay character has many issues with his sexual identity. He comes out, then thinks he made a mistake. He wants a relationship with his best friend who is not interested (maybe a little, but only because he hates seeing his friend upset). His parents kick him out. He gains the stigma associated with homosexuality (less than today, he'd be coming out in about 2025ish). He can't find anyone that wants the same level of relationship that he wants (meanwhile his friend is married at twenty-three). That's just how I did it. -X