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Irish vs Canadian culture clash!

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Contemptus
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I have a main character who grew up in Southern Ireland for most of her life -- Dingle (or an Daingean), County Kerry, to be precise -- and recently was forced to move in with Irish-Canadian relatives living in Ontario, Canada after her father died.

What I want to know is what sort of differences would she notice, other than the small-town-big-city contrast? Big things would be great, but also little things -- popular brands of chocolate or ice cream that Canada doesn't carry, or what have you -- would really add a sense of depth, too.

Also, any Irish slang you could open my eyes to would be great.

Thanks!

Kayla Rain
113936 words so far

heh I'm from Ontario! It's always about New York. I feel special when someone mentions Canada.

I've never been to Ireland, and I'm not Irish, either, so I'm afraid I'm not really much help with this. But I know where I live, Ottawa, there's a lot of small little stores that sell Irish tea and that kind of thing. I've never gone in them, but my friends have. It's usually a mix of Irish and Scottish food. Also, Canadian history had a lot to do with the Irish so it's way easier to find the Irish culture here than, say, Dutch. So your character should be able to find a lot of places downtown or something that have the irish culture present and strong.

Also, the small-town thing - it totally depends where in Ontario she's going to live in. Like I said before, I like in Ottawa, and it's definitely not a small town.

Hope I was able to help, even just a bit ! :P

Kayla Rain
113936 words so far

also;

http://www.dublin1850.com/general/4mymofo.html (slang)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Canadian (history)
http://scottishandirishstore.com/mysitecaddy/site3/ (one of those stores I was talking about)
http://www.straffanbutterflyfarm.com/butterfliesofireland.php (some of these are only found in Ireland)

BlondTekikin
12872 words so far

He might get mistaken for a Newfie (person from the province of Newfoundland) or some other maritime province- the east coast has a stronger Celtic influence than Ontario. As in the accent, dance, music, slang, art. Some bands even still sing in Gallic.

Vanitys_Fiend
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Speaking as an Irish person who has no clue about Canada, i'd say that sports, slang and accents could be a bit clashy.
I'm not sure if Canada has hurling or gaelic, but they're both pretty popular here, so that could be different. Slang is definately different- 'craic' is used to mean fun, banter, etc. 'Where's all the craic' could mean something very different in Canada! And accents, there may be a difficulty in understanding each other, especially if your guy has a very strong accent.

Contemptus
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Thanks so much! Is there any other slang that would be particularly noticable, or different? And, I'm sorry, but Gaelic the language -- it's spoken fluently in Ireland, like a second language? I'm coming at this from a Canadain perspective, so I can compare and contrast myself; I'd just like a bit more to go on with the Irish side of things.

Vanitys_Fiend
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Sorry for the late reply. On Irish, it depends where you're from and your political leanings. If he's from the Republic of Ireland then they would've had to learn it at school, if he's from the North (like I am) then it's a choice and dependant if the school offers it. I do know people who are fluent though, especially if they went to an Irish speaking primary school. So you've got some leeway with that. Personally, I'd only know few phrases.
Slang differs again on where you're from, but stuff like calling somebody a dote or mustard, saying feck (or just swearing, we do tend to swear quite a bit). Some girls will call their friend babes. Millies are really trampy, tacky girls who generally wear a lot of fake tan, smicks are the male equivalent. A preswal would a drinking session before you go out to a club, a carryou is like drinking in the streets or in the park (but I wouldn't say that.) We tend to insult people jokingly and have bant with them (like my friend calling me a slag or something.)
I'm not sure about the teenage binge drinking in Canada, but here its quite common for underage people to drink, I know that parks would be quite common if you were about 13-15, but after that you'd probably go to clubs.
This might not be applicable to the south, as I'm from Belfast, but it could be quite similar.
Also this is not entirely true but it's what the accent sounds like, and it's got a lot of slang, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7FY6vMFIyE
If you want to know anything more, just Nanomail me.

recklessandcareless

Hey. I'm Irish, from the Republic, but nowhere near Dingle (sidenote - no one would call it "an Daingean" - that would be written on signposts and brochures, but I can guarantee that no one would ever utter that word in conversation). I assume your character is pretty young - a teenager? Well, if I were your character I'd be very happy about not having to study Irish anymore. We have to study Irish in school - it's compulsory. We start it at age 4 and continue until 18, and I'm 17 right now, and still can't speak Irish. Really. I was taught pretty badly, and a lot of people hate having to learn it, including me. But I have a few friends who went to full Irish speaking primary (elementary) schools, and they're fluent. But on the whole - Nobody speaks Irish. We're not a bilingual people. We speak English. And Irish is spoken by a very, very small minority. Most people know a few words, basic sentences, a very basic understanding, but that's it. We only speak English. (Irish is technically our first language though)

I've been to Ontario before, twice. Toronto, both times. I always find using the money so annoying. I'm not sure how to explain this, but here, we use euros obviously, and if you're in a shop and see a pair of jeans you want to buy, and they cost €50, you go to the cash register and you hand over €50. The tax is included in the price. In Canada, the price tag would say $50 but then tax would have to be added and I'd have to pay something like $53.70 (making this up!). I hated that, I thought it was pointless and very irritating! It made matters very confusing!

Okay, chocolate. You should include this. Here, we like Cadburys a lot. Cadburys Dairy Milk chocolate is very popular. I'm pretty sure Canada doesn't have it? And I know that most Irish people hate Hershey's chocolate, which you guys have a lot. Hershey's just doesn't compare. Trust me. Hershey's is alright, and then you get this aftertaste and it's just like... bleurgh.

Ice cream - I'd say we're pretty much the same. Ben and Jerrys exists here.

A real Irish person would miss their Irish tea. (brands include Barry's Tea). There's nothing like it. We're tea people.

We call "candy" sweets. We call "popsicles" ice pops. We call "chips" crisps. We call "soda" fizzy drinks.

Okay, random differences I saw were... again, in shops. The people who work in Candian (and American) shops tend to be very, very friendly. Overly friendly. We're a friendly people but being ambushed by over eager shop clerks is just so foreign to us! You're probably used to this but for me, it was weird. In a funny way, of course. Your malls are also a lot bigger.

Weather wise, Canada's going to be a lot more drastic to Ireland. Our airport usually shuts down when we get one inch of snow (true story) and we declare a heatwave when it hits 25 degrees. Oh - we use celsius. If you use farenheight, that's going to be confusing for your character.

I gotta say I really don't agree with what Vanitys_Fiend has been saying - but he/she is from the north, so maybe the slang is very different there. I would advise you not to use a lot of slang - I don't know what millies or smicks are, and I'm Irish, so I doubt anyone else will. A very safe slang word to use would be "knacker", which is basically an insult used to describe working class people who are seen as 'rough' and are rude and troublemaking. But don't go overboard with the slang, trust me.

Also, don't make your character a redhead. Please. They're a minority - even here. And don't feel the need to call him Seamus Finnigan or whatever other overly Irish name you have. I have friends called anything from Hailey to Amber to Cassie - we're not all called traditional Irish names. Guys names are much safer - no Chads, Tylers, Brads, etc. We have more English names, like John or James etc.

I can't think of anything else haha... But if you have any questions, just reply and ask!

scheherazade
50096 words so far Winner!

Where is the person living in Canada? If it's modern-day Toronto, they'd find a HUGE communtiy of 20-something Irish ex-pats in Toronto on work visa. I'm not sure what differences they all notice, but a few of the women have complained they need to go on a diet because there is so much more food variety (especially Asian cuisine).

I think most of them have found Toronto to be pretty welcoming, because their compatriots have all set a great example - friendly, smart people that are eager to learn more about the culture and share their own. So they'd probably get a lot of people commenting on their accent and asking about their home culture (and inviting them out for Canada's less-extravagant St. Patty's Day drinking).

recklessandcareless

You spell it differently? We call it St. Paddy's day.
We also have lots of food variety here too. We don't have Chinatown or anything like that, but there are countless chinese restaurants, takeaways, indian places, anything.

Contemptus
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Oh,. wow This is embarassing. I completely forgot I started this thread -- I thought it was dead!

Thanks so much for all the help, guys. I'll definately take you up on the PM offers -- I'm going to need it!

((As a side note, I find it hilarious that you guys have the same relationship with Irish the way most Canadians have with French. They make us take it, we hate it, and can't speak it. Montreal is the only offical billingual city, and even then, you can get by with English. Speaking from experience, too.))

But a bit about the character: She's not a red head! She's a brunette. She's also named Keena-Marie, because I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that it was the female version of Keenan, and it stuck. About the slang -- I wasn't planning on peppering the work with it, I just wanted to give everything an authentic feel. Refering to gas stations as petrol, strollers as buggies, that sort of thing.

Basically, there's going to be a bit set in Toronto -- it's set in Canada, how could it not? -- but the character originally moved to Sault. Ste. Marie for a year or so before taking off on a cross-country roadtrip. SO it's not going to be set jsut in one place.

Oh! The climate change. I hadn't even thought about that? Would you be able to tell me a bit more about it?

recklessandcareless

Haha I guess you know how I feel! Compulsory languages are not fun. We also have to take a third, like I take French as well. It's usually between Spanish and French and sometimes German in schools here. So if your charatcer took French in school they'd have no problem knowing what basic french words mean and could probably take it in their new school as well! (leaving Irish behind for good, yay!)

There are techincally Irish speaking places here, but they're tiny little villages way off in the West. And I just realised that Dingle is a tiny village way off in the West. I'm pretty sure it's in the Gaeltacht - which are Irish speaking regions. A lot of teenagers go to the Gaeltacht for maybe 2/3 weeks in summer to improve their Irish (sort of like summer camp, you'd do lots of games and sports and water sports and such, except living with Irish speaking families and *trying* to always speak Irish etc - it's fun!). Dingle is one of those places. Does she have to be from Dingle? Maybe somewhere else in Kerry? Or a coastal town on the east?

I've never heard of the name Keena. Keenan itself would be pretty rare. But don't let that stop you! I like Keena Marie. It's a nice name. Yay brunettes - I think we, as a people, are mostly brunette, so that would make sense! Is she insanely pale? That's a very Irish trait. Pale skin that is especially prone to sunburn and does not ever tan (example: me, haha).

Yeah, good call on not going all out on the slang. Oh - and gas is called petrol, but gas stations are called garages. Also, we pronounce garage differently (this is irrelevant, because you're writing a novel, haha) You say ga-rahj and we say ga-ridge. Strollers are most definitely buggies, pacifiers are dummies, kindergarten doesn't exist, well, the whole schooling system is very different, actually. If you need help with that just ask! And how old is she?

Okay, climate. Well, I wasn't kidding about the snow thing. We tend to freak out and over react when it snows here, because it doesn't happen that frequently. This year it didn't snow once. Last year, I'm pretty sure I got about 2 weeks worth of snow days. It hit minus 17 degrees celsius in some places last year, which was absolutely insane. Our usual freezing cold would be maybe just under freezing during the winter months. Little snow. Frost, sometimes ice. Very cold bitter wind. But absolutely nothing compared to Canada. Usually if it does snow, you have enough to make one snowman, and that's it. No mountains of fluffy white snow to slide down, unfortunately.

Summer is very strange. It can be very nice, but not all the time. I'm pretty sure we tend to get good weather in May/June. It's never terribly warm, but just nice. And it tends to rain quite a bit during the summer, unfortunately. You really cannot predict an Irish summer. You can book your wedding to be right in mid July, and you could get grey skies and rain showers. It's hit and miss, really. I went to Canada in the summertime and there were two days when I literally felt like I was going to die because I was so hot. Also - cars don't have air conditioning here because they don't need it haha. Actually, nothing has it. We have heating systems, not cooling systems :)

So, basically, your climate is going to be pretty intense for an Irish person. We're used to kind of cold and kind of warm - not extremes. Maybe your Spring/Autumn time would be pretty normal for her. Right now the sky looks extremely white because it's just covered in clouds. Very normal.




Contemptus
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I'm planning on having her be in her late teens, nineteen, probably. That's legally an adult in Canada, so there wouldn't be a shitstorm of media exposure when she went missing from her aunt's place.

Mostly I just wanted my character to be from a small town-- and Dingle, from what I've read on Wikipedia, has, like, 2000 people -- to better contrast her being in, say, Toronto, with over a million residents. Plus, Dingle is sort of a hilarious town name. I feel like that'd start a conversation on its own. (And yes, she's really pale and doesn't tan. She also has freckles.) But having her actually know Irish might be something interesting, even if I have to put in more work to get some of it down -- something a bit more acurate than just Google Translate, y'know?

As a side note, we use celcius here, too, so the convesion won't be a problem. And considering that it's -8 right now and we just got, like, three inches of snow overnight, writing Keena during winter is going to be fun. I feel like layers are going to be her favorite thing ever.

And this is more for me than the novel-- but you never know right? -- but what the schooling system like? Wikipedia can only tell you so much.

recklessandcareless

Dingle is a pretty funny name. I've always liked Youghal. Try pronounce that haha - it's actually pronounced like "y'all". It's a little town in Cork, I think. Nice place. Yeah, her speaking Irish could be kinda interesting. Hard, but interesting! She would definitely need to adapt to the big city, being a country girl!

Ah, celsius! yay! I didn't know that. I just assume anywhere across the pond uses Fahrenheit! Oh my goodness, Keena's going to live in no less than 20 layers. I'm sure of that! Canadian winter will be insane. Oh, and do you use family portrait christmas cards there? I have Canadian relatives who send those to us, they're funny! We don't do that, ever. We send cards with little snow landscapes on them or pictures of santa or a christmas tree or anything relatively Christmassy! No family portraits though, haha. Nothing like that :)

Ah, the schooling system. If she's 19, she's out of school - usually. She would have typically just left seconday school (high school) and would be starting university next year. Most kids go to play school at 3, I think. Maybe even 2. And then either at 4 or 5 you start Primary School. Secondary school starts at 12/13, when you begin 1st year, and lasts for 5 or 6 years until 6th year. It goes like this:
From 1st to 3rd year, you study for a series of exams called the Junior Certificate, which you take when you finish 3rd year (age 15ish).
And then... things get a little complicated, haha. You have an option. You can do 4th year aka Transition Year or progress straight into 5th year. Most people go right into 5th year, but about a third of people would do Transition year. TY is a year where you sort of stop focusing on exams and academics. You stay in school, of course, but you do different classes, and take part in projects and courses and exchange programs, do work experience, go on trips, etc. I did it, and it's very fun! It's a nice "break" to try new things etc.
And then you go into 5th year. 5th and 6th year are geared towards another series of exams called the Leaving Certificate. They're the exams that decide whether you get into college or not, basically. I'm in 6th year now so I'm taking these in June! You get a score out of 600 points based on your best 6 exams (most people take 7 exams), and then depending on what you've applied for, you either get into college or you don't, based on if you meet the points requirements or not! (eg good universities like Trinity College Dublin or hard courses like Medicine would have very high points, like 580, and then something like Science might be 420 and an Arts degree might be 360 etc). Your character would have gotten her results in mid August time.

That's a pretty long explanation but I wanted to give you an idea of where she is right now haha. Do you have free education for college in Canada? If she's going to college, that might shock her, because ours is "free" (We have to pay about 2000, but that's it).

Oh, another thing! It's pretty likely she went to an all girls catholic school. Uniform wearing and all that. I go to one, most people do. But, don't get the wrong idea, we're not insanely holy good girls, haha. There's usually a couple girls who get pregnant, silly second years who vandalise the toilets, etc. No nuns! And the boys school is never that far away haha :)



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