Hi! My MC is in need of an organ transplant in order to survive. I was thinking kidney or liver, but I'm flexible.
1. How could a defect with either kidney or liver be found in a seemingly healthy 17-year-old? 2. How long could she manage to stay alive without a transplant? 3. Would she have to be put in the hospital from day one and stay there until she gets her transplant, or could she go home from time to time? 4. She will, after surgery, end up in a coma, and I want her to still be able to think, hear and feel, but not be able to move, see or speak. Is that realistic?
I can only answer #4, and that's because the answer is: We don't know. As many other threads on comas have said, there's not nearly enough known about comas to provide a definitive answer on that count. However, I'm fairly certain a coma is characterized by severely decreased brain activity, so she probably wouldn't be able to think. You might try cataplexy instead, though I'm not sure how long it's possible for that to last.
Well, I think if you're having kidney problems / kidney failure, for a while you could get by going to dialysis - that'd be about 3 or 4 times a week, where you're hooked up to a machine for about 3 hours while it cleans your blood. There's a lot of literature on how kidney dialysis and transplants work, so I bet you could look that stuff up. As far as I understand, the problem that occurs, is that the rest of the body can't handle that stress and slowly other organs start to shut down.
As far as a 17 year old having kidney problems, I do know an older, very healthy man who had gotten diabetes while in the marines, and the diabetes ended up leading to kidney failure. I'm not sure if that's plausible for your story or for a seventeen year old, but you could always look that stuff up. (:
There are genetic-based illnesses that could take out an organ, as well as infections or even an accident that damages the organ. Heck, you could get stabbed or impaled and lose a kidney. Particularly dangerous if you were only born with one (it happens, and you might never know until they have reason to check).
IFangirlLunaLovegood wrote: Okay, so she wouldn't be able to think properly, and wouldn't be able to tell the story?
Wrong...
There is a lot of simply bad info in this thread. I suggest that you Google "Locked-in syndrome". I believe you'll find it to be what you want, and from people who have experience it first hand.
I suggest you try reading my post once again? I did not state that Locked-in syndrome and coma where the same! I simply suggested the original poster might benefit from researching Locked-in syndrome. I believe it describe the condition she was after.
Notkieran wrote: From personal experience: even if you can hear and feel stuff in your coma, your state of consciousness is such that it doesn't process properly.
Simply because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.... :) it is actually well documented, and has been known for a long time.
No, when I was in the coma I apparently responded to outside stimuli but, and this is the key criteria, "I" experienced nothing.
My _body_ responded to stimuli. It cried in frustration and turned towards familiar voices.
_I_ did not respond to stimuli. The entity I identify as myself did not participate in these actions, and has no recollection of these actions. The closest analogy I have to it is my occasional sleepwalking and talking. The most dramatic incident was when I was in the army and they decided to haze me and I burst off the bed and put the biggest guy in a flying armbar and THEN I woke up.
I was not involved in any of that; my body saw stimuli and responded accordingly. My consciousness was not involved at all.
It is possible that _some_ of the things said in my presence were "heard" by me, but definitely not _all_ of the things, because I didn't always respond.
You know, kind of the way we sometimes obviously hear things in our sleep and respond but never have any recollection of it when we wake up? Like that.
Notkieran wrote: No, when I was in the coma I apparently responded to outside stimuli but, and this is the key criteria, "I" experienced nothing.
It all comes down to word choices doesn't it? Did you actually "experience" nothing? Or do you simply "remember" nothing? There is a lot of "stuff" from my childhood that I no longer remember, does that mean the "I" that is me, never experienced that stimulus? My doctors made a choice to use a class of drugs that cause me not to remember the pain of surgery, simply because "I" don't recall it, did the surgery fail to happen? Simply because I can not actively recall that pain did "I" not experience it?
Isn't that at some level the argument of the drunk that gets behind the wheel, and kills someone? He too doesn't recall driving drunk, the "he" that is "him" wasn't "driving" his body was simply going through the motions "it" remembers doing so often before....
Once again you are taking your experience, and projecting your "experience" onto everyone else. Suggesting this is the only valid interpretation of what happen. It may be very valid for you, but is it the only possible way to experience that event? You are apparently happy with the notion that your body has a "sub-mind" of it's own, that can "move" and otherwise "use" your body when you are not actively using it. That your "body" has memories that you don't and can access those memories, and use them to make choices you are unaware of.
My guess here is the original poster is not a doctor, is not a medical professional. That the original poster use the best words she had available to describe a condition, that the original poster wanted to know more if the "condition" was possible? What I read up until my post was no the condition is NOT possible, period. Not that the condition was possible, and was documented, under a different name than coma.
Perhaps it is my poor mastery of the English language, but your post once again seem to be a suggestion that your experience was the only valid one? That "you" where atteming to project your experience onto all others? Perhaps I missed the part of your post where you validated the condition the original poster described?
No, I am saying that all the evidence points to an inconsistent ability for people in a coma to "hear" things. I am saying that you cannot expect that a person in a coma hears everything you say the same way that he would if he were awake, because, guess what? A coma is an altered state of consciousness, and thus by definition it's not the same.
We prosecute a drunkard on the actions of his drunkenness, but not on the basis that he is the same person when drunk as when he is sober. We prosecute him because he is aware that he is a different person and still chooses to get drunk.
And extending your analogy: a drunken person in a rage very often won't hear you. He won't recall the incident either, but _during_ the incident he actually won't hear you. The words will enter his ears, but they won't process in his brain.
The fact that a person on the outside responds to stimuli does not mean that there is a functioning consciousness on the inside. Case studies show that patients in a coma _may_ respond to stimuli, and that sometimes people in a coma claim to have heard things from the outside, usually towards the end of a coma, which should make you suspect that right there. And that is all. Unless you have a record of someone waking from a coma and being able to read back all the things that were said by his or her bedside?
I am saying that response to stimuli does not have to involve the consciousness inside.
Let's talk about that.
There is a condition called "blindsight". The person actually responds to visual stimuli, and yet is entirely unconscious of that fact. In short, the consciousness in the body is not in sync with what the body is doing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight
Another one:
People who have had their corpus callosum removed, thus separating the hemispheres of their brain, can be shown an instruction to one eye, obey that sentence, and when questioned why they did that, come up with a reason that is entirely fictional. In other words, they have responded to complex incoming stimuli, and yet are entirely unaware that they have done so.
You begin to see the complexity of this? Just because part of the brain responds, it does not mean that "the person" has responded.
You are suggesting that a person in a coma can "hear". Maybe your English isn't very good, as you say, but the implication of that suggestion is that the person in a coma can "hear just as well as if he were awake", which is absurd.
My point is that a coma is very similar to sleep. Can we "hear" things in our sleep? Certainly. Do those sounds map in our head to what they do in real life? Not neccesarily.
Do you understand the concept of altered state of consciousness? Do you understand that when you are in an altered state of consciousness, your consciousness does not register stimuli as it would when it is not altered? If not, which part of "altered" and "consciousness" did you not understand?
Transplants and comas
Hi!
My MC is in need of an organ transplant in order to survive. I was thinking kidney or liver, but I'm flexible.
1. How could a defect with either kidney or liver be found in a seemingly healthy 17-year-old?
2. How long could she manage to stay alive without a transplant?
3. Would she have to be put in the hospital from day one and stay there until she gets her transplant, or could she go home from time to time?
4. She will, after surgery, end up in a coma, and I want her to still be able to think, hear and feel, but not be able to move, see or speak. Is that realistic?
Thank you for you time,
Luna
Re: Transplants and comas
I can only answer #4, and that's because the answer is: We don't know. As many other threads on comas have said, there's not nearly enough known about comas to provide a definitive answer on that count. However, I'm fairly certain a coma is characterized by severely decreased brain activity, so she probably wouldn't be able to think. You might try cataplexy instead, though I'm not sure how long it's possible for that to last.
Re: Transplants and comas
Thanks, I'll look it up :)
Re: Transplants and comas
Well, I think if you're having kidney problems / kidney failure, for a while you could get by going to dialysis - that'd be about 3 or 4 times a week, where you're hooked up to a machine for about 3 hours while it cleans your blood. There's a lot of literature on how kidney dialysis and transplants work, so I bet you could look that stuff up. As far as I understand, the problem that occurs, is that the rest of the body can't handle that stress and slowly other organs start to shut down.
As far as a 17 year old having kidney problems, I do know an older, very healthy man who had gotten diabetes while in the marines, and the diabetes ended up leading to kidney failure. I'm not sure if that's plausible for your story or for a seventeen year old, but you could always look that stuff up. (:
Re: Transplants and comas
Thanks I'll look into it! :)
Re: Transplants and comas
There are genetic-based illnesses that could take out an organ, as well as infections or even an accident that damages the organ. Heck, you could get stabbed or impaled and lose a kidney. Particularly dangerous if you were only born with one (it happens, and you might never know until they have reason to check).
Re: Transplants and comas
Thank you! :)
Re: Transplants and comas
From personal experience: even if you can hear and feel stuff in your coma, your state of consciousness is such that it doesn't process properly.
Re: Transplants and comas
Okay, so she wouldn't be able to think properly, and wouldn't be able to tell the story?
Re: Transplants and comas
Wrong...
There is a lot of simply bad info in this thread. I suggest that you Google "Locked-in syndrome". I believe you'll find it to be what you want, and from people who have experience it first hand.
Hope that helps...
Re: Transplants and comas
Coma =/= locked-in syndrome. They are two completely different things.
Locked-in syndrome is when you are CONSCIOUS, but unable to move anything except your eyes due to a problem in your brainstem.
Coma is an altered level of consciousness.
Just for the record.
Re: Transplants and comas
I suggest you try reading my post once again?
I did not state that Locked-in syndrome and coma where the same! I simply suggested the original poster might benefit from researching Locked-in syndrome. I believe it describe the condition she was after.
Re: Transplants and comas
Simply because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.... :) it is actually well documented, and has been known for a long time.
Re: Transplants and comas
No, when I was in the coma I apparently responded to outside stimuli but, and this is the key criteria, "I" experienced nothing.
My _body_ responded to stimuli. It cried in frustration and turned towards familiar voices.
_I_ did not respond to stimuli. The entity I identify as myself did not participate in these actions, and has no recollection of these actions. The closest analogy I have to it is my occasional sleepwalking and talking. The most dramatic incident was when I was in the army and they decided to haze me and I burst off the bed and put the biggest guy in a flying armbar and THEN I woke up.
I was not involved in any of that; my body saw stimuli and responded accordingly. My consciousness was not involved at all.
It is possible that _some_ of the things said in my presence were "heard" by me, but definitely not _all_ of the things, because I didn't always respond.
You know, kind of the way we sometimes obviously hear things in our sleep and respond but never have any recollection of it when we wake up? Like that.
Re: Transplants and comas
It all comes down to word choices doesn't it? Did you actually "experience" nothing? Or do you simply "remember" nothing? There is a lot of "stuff" from my childhood that I no longer remember, does that mean the "I" that is me, never experienced that stimulus? My doctors made a choice to use a class of drugs that cause me not to remember the pain of surgery, simply because "I" don't recall it, did the surgery fail to happen? Simply because I can not actively recall that pain did "I" not experience it?
Isn't that at some level the argument of the drunk that gets behind the wheel, and kills someone? He too doesn't recall driving drunk, the "he" that is "him" wasn't "driving" his body was simply going through the motions "it" remembers doing so often before....
Once again you are taking your experience, and projecting your "experience" onto everyone else. Suggesting this is the only valid interpretation of what happen. It may be very valid for you, but is it the only possible way to experience that event? You are apparently happy with the notion that your body has a "sub-mind" of it's own, that can "move" and otherwise "use" your body when you are not actively using it. That your "body" has memories that you don't and can access those memories, and use them to make choices you are unaware of.
My guess here is the original poster is not a doctor, is not a medical professional. That the original poster use the best words she had available to describe a condition, that the original poster wanted to know more if the "condition" was possible? What I read up until my post was no the condition is NOT possible, period. Not that the condition was possible, and was documented, under a different name than coma.
Perhaps it is my poor mastery of the English language, but your post once again seem to be a suggestion that your experience was the only valid one? That "you" where atteming to project your experience onto all others? Perhaps I missed the part of your post where you validated the condition the original poster described?
Re: Transplants and comas
No, I am saying that all the evidence points to an inconsistent ability for people in a coma to "hear" things. I am saying that you cannot expect that a person in a coma hears everything you say the same way that he would if he were awake, because, guess what? A coma is an altered state of consciousness, and thus by definition it's not the same.
We prosecute a drunkard on the actions of his drunkenness, but not on the basis that he is the same person when drunk as when he is sober. We prosecute him because he is aware that he is a different person and still chooses to get drunk.
And extending your analogy: a drunken person in a rage very often won't hear you. He won't recall the incident either, but _during_ the incident he actually won't hear you. The words will enter his ears, but they won't process in his brain.
The fact that a person on the outside responds to stimuli does not mean that there is a functioning consciousness on the inside. Case studies show that patients in a coma _may_ respond to stimuli, and that sometimes people in a coma claim to have heard things from the outside, usually towards the end of a coma, which should make you suspect that right there. And that is all. Unless you have a record of someone waking from a coma and being able to read back all the things that were said by his or her bedside?
I am saying that response to stimuli does not have to involve the consciousness inside.
Let's talk about that.
There is a condition called "blindsight". The person actually responds to visual stimuli, and yet is entirely unconscious of that fact. In short, the consciousness in the body is not in sync with what the body is doing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight
Another one:
People who have had their corpus callosum removed, thus separating the hemispheres of their brain, can be shown an instruction to one eye, obey that sentence, and when questioned why they did that, come up with a reason that is entirely fictional. In other words, they have responded to complex incoming stimuli, and yet are entirely unaware that they have done so.
You begin to see the complexity of this? Just because part of the brain responds, it does not mean that "the person" has responded.
You are suggesting that a person in a coma can "hear". Maybe your English isn't very good, as you say, but the implication of that suggestion is that the person in a coma can "hear just as well as if he were awake", which is absurd.
My point is that a coma is very similar to sleep. Can we "hear" things in our sleep? Certainly. Do those sounds map in our head to what they do in real life? Not neccesarily.
Do you understand the concept of altered state of consciousness? Do you understand that when you are in an altered state of consciousness, your consciousness does not register stimuli as it would when it is not altered? If not, which part of "altered" and "consciousness" did you not understand?