Could you help me with a cat issue? http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066 frenziedmythology Ok, this is gonna seem real dumb, but there ARE male calico cats, right? Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:57:54 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127421 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127421 Phoenix Yup. But they're very rare. And sterile. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:08:36 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127448 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127448 frenziedmythology What's the plural form of calico? calicos or calicoes? And is calico capitalized? And what do you mean 'they're sterile?' Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:12:12 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127463 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127463 Xenocrates Phoenix is right, although I would say calico males are *usually* sterile, I don't think they're always sterile. If you're interested in the science, it's because fur color is determined by a gene on the X chromosome; calico patterning happens when a female has one color encoded on one X and another on the other X. One X in each cell is randomly inactivated early in development, so the remaining active X determines the color for the patch of fur cells that eventually grow from that original cell. For a male to have calico patterning, he's probably got XXY chromosomes, which means he's probably sterile. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:17:38 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127480 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127480 Phoenix Calicos or calicoes. No capitalization. They're sterile means just that--they can't father kittens. (p.s. Google is your friend...) Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:19:36 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127489 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127489 frenziedmythology Thanks, guys. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:30:14 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127519 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1127519 larri2005 A friend had a male calico. Even though they are supposed to be sterile, she had him neutered, just in case he wasn't. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:07:26 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1128676 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1128676 WritingGeek97 They're veeeeeeery rare. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:53:20 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1129032 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1129032 frenziedmythology Just wondering, but is that a calico in your picture? (I know, I should know calico markings. Goodness me......) Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:27:42 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1129496 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1129496 Laughing-Mockingbird I do believe that's a tortoiseshell, which, if I remember correctly, have the same sort of issues as calicoes (usually female and males are usually sterile). But I could very well be wrong on both counts. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 07:36:20 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131342 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131342 frenziedmythology I'm not much of a cat person. I have one, but I can't tell you what kind he is! :) Sat, 11 Feb 2012 09:39:41 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131482 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131482 Ash-Ash I'd call it a tortoiseshell also, but my understanding is that tortoiseshell and calico are just different versions of the same thing. Calicoes have more white on them while tortoiseshells are mainly brown and black, but the genetic basis is the same. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:14:54 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131671 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131671 frenziedmythology Holy cow, that cat is SO cute! Is that yours, or just a picture of one? My friend has a cat that looks just like it. Sadly, however, I still don't know what kind it is.... >.< Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:09:26 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131773 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131773 Ash-Ash Thanks! :) He is my cat, and he'd be called a brown tabby because he's mostly brown and has this stripey pattern. He's not a specific breed though, so if you're not talking about his coloring you'd call him a domestic short hair (basically a cat equivalent of "mutt." There are also domestic long hairs.). Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:39:06 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131841 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131841 frenziedmythology Pssh, I shoulda known that! Every time I visit PetSmart, EVERY TIME, I go to see the cats and see the words "Domestic Shorthair" or "Domestic Longhair." Goodness me.... Short term memory at so young an age..... It is really cute. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:58:14 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131895 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131895 frenziedmythology Oh my goodness! That means that my cat is a Domestic Shorthair as well! This day shall be called Discovery Day from hereon in. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:02:41 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131915 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131915 Ash-Ash Hahaha! I'm glad I could help! :D Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:17:36 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131964 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1131964 TheCatfishKid Male calicoes (my spell checker says that is the plural, but I'm pretty sure it's fine either way) do exist, but they are very rare because if a male cat were to have the calico coloring it would have to have an extra chromosome (the y chromosome contains no color genes, so to have both brown/gray/black AND orange the cat would need to have two x chromosomes as well as a y). Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:23:26 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1132268 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1132268 larri2005 The others are correct. My cat is a tortoiseshell. She has a tiny bit of white on her chest, but to qualify as as calico, she'd need a lot more white. I've also heard that calicoes and tortoiseshells are similar and are almost always female. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:02:20 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133056 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133056 PhantomDream Everyone else here has it right. For there to be a male calico, he would have to have two X chromosomes, in addition to a Y chromosome, and would most likely be sterile. In human males, having an extra X chromosome is known as Klinefelter's syndrome, and usually results in decreased fertility, although it obviously does not have the impact of coat color like it does in felines. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:34:59 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133890 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133890 frenziedmythology Who came up with the name tortoiseshell for a CAT? Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:39:01 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133898 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133898 frenziedmythology How muc of a chance for a calico to male, have the correct markings, AND not be sterile? Would they be worth a lot? (Who knows. This may come in handy for my story!) :) Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:40:35 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133903 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133903 PhantomDream I don't know what you mean by markings--if the cat is calico, it will have a white base coat and two other colors (for example, see my avatar, although that's a female). If they're tortoiseshell, it's quite similar, although they tend to have a darker (black or brown) base coat and little or no white, although the same rules about color inheritance apply. I also don't know the statistics, although it's very, very rare. (Here's an example--I've been volunteering at a humane society for three, nearly four, years now, and I have never seen a male calico or tortoiseshell, sterile or otherwise.) As far as being worth a lot, it really depends on the person, as worth is totally relative. However, as far as felines go, probably not a lot unless they had his genealogy and family history. If they can trace his ancestry, he would have a much better chance of being useful to breed, which I believe is what you mean? Probably someone else can answer the question about worth better--I have a lot of experience on the humane society/pet owner side of cats, not the breeding/showing side. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:53:36 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133921 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133921 frenziedmythology Thanks. That answered my question perfectly. I really appreciate the time you took in answering that. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:55:00 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133923 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133923 S.Novak The pattern and coloring looks like the shell of a tortoise. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:48:25 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133988 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1133988 frenziedmythology Makes sense... I guess... :) Sun, 12 Feb 2012 12:09:37 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134015 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134015 Kayla Rain I love calicos <3 There are males, but they would most likely be sterile. like 99% of calicos are female. :) Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:27:14 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134483 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134483 frenziedmythology It wouldn't be unreasonable for me to include a male calico who's not sterile in my story, thoguh, right? Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:39:54 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134806 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1134806 keolah If you include a non-sterile male calico, even if it's possible in some one in a million chance somehow, you'd still most likely get your readers calling BS at you. ;p Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:05:03 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1135609 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1135609 lasalle202 [quote=frenziedmythology] It wouldn't be unreasonable for me to include a male calico who's not sterile in my story, thoguh, right? [/quote] "believability" is relative. my brother "can't watch" musicals, because its "unbelievable that people just break out in song" and yet 1) he has no problem watching action films with their completely unbelievable explosions, car chases and gun fights and 2) he himself is constantly "breaking out in song" singing funny bits of songs to his nieces or singing to himself while walking out to his car. If your story is called:Tommy the Male Calico and your first line is "The vets couldnt tell us how Tommy had fathered kittens, but he had." Then you, as the author, have AUTHORitatively have set the groundwork and it is completely "reasonable". If a fertile male calico is your magguffin (How are we going to pay for little Sally's lifesaving operation? Hey, Tommy the male calico just fathered a bunch of male calico kittens. if we can sell Tommy and the kittens to the geishas* before he gets stolen by the yakuza, we can save Sally.) Then it is no more unreasonable than the rest of your plotline and readers who have come that far are probably just gong to continue along for the ride. If it is just a side piece to make Mary Sue Sparklepony's pet as speshul as she is, then youre in trouble. *in answer to your previous question, yes male calicoes apparently are/were/were reported to be worth money http://books.google.com/books?id=mrKlG75oCLwC&pg=PA22&dq=male+calico+cat&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tfg4T6mRDofl0QG1zt22Ag&ved=0CFEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=male%20calico%20cat&f=false Mon, 13 Feb 2012 04:19:15 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1136219 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1136219 theInsane [quote=lasalle202] If a fertile male calico is your magguffin (How are we going to pay for little Sally's lifesaving operation? Hey, Tommy the male calico just fathered a bunch of male calico kittens. if we can sell Tommy and the kittens to the geishas* before he gets stolen by the yakuza, we can save Sally.) Then it is no more unreasonable than the rest of your plotline and readers who have come that far are probably just gong to continue along for the ride. [/quote] i have nothing useful to contribute to this thread. i just wanted to say that this plot idea absolutely cracked me up. someone needs to write this!! :-D Mon, 13 Feb 2012 17:30:40 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1137457 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1137457 OnyxFlame [quote] Many myths abound about male calico cats. While they are relatively rare, with an estimated one male in three thousand calico cat births, there is no extraordinary demand for them. They do not make good breeding studs because almost all male calicos are sterile. In fact, only about one in ten thousand male calicos is fertile.[/quote] (from http://cats.lovetoknow.com/Male_Calico_Cat) It doesn't say how much a *fertile* male calico would be worth though. :/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:28:55 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141582 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1141582 Phoenix Probably zip--because who cares, really? He'd be a curiosity item during his brief lifespan, but it's not as if calicoes are hotly sought after. Now an ocicat male with a good track record--he'd be worth something. ;-> Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:44:09 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1142048 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1142048 kitty-wake A fertile male calico wouldn't be worth anything unless he was an outstanding example of his breed - and even there it wouldn't be his fur colour that mattered so much as his fur type and body shape. He would almost certainly breed as if he were all-black or all-red. OP - this link is useful: http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism.htm Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:26:15 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1142161 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1142161 Nappytime27 They are unable to produce offspring. Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:52:31 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1157821 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1157821 xengab I believe there are Persian calicoes and Tortiseshells. Those males might be worth something but that would be due to breed not color. Plus even if the male is fertile, it does not mean the kittens will be healthy or survive due to the extra chromosomes. I'd be rather surprised if any worthwhile breeder would bother trying it out. Calicoes and Tortie's are very common and don't need any special breeding to have happen. I've a lovely Tortie girl, she has two pieces of white fur and 4 white whiskers (age). Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:24:54 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1174815 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1174815 larri2005 [quote=xengab] I believe there are Persian calicoes and Tortiseshells. Those males might be worth something but that would be due to breed not color. [/quote] Precious is a half-Persian tortoiseshell. I've looked it up, and full Persian can indeed be tortoiseshells. I don't know enough about breeding cats to know which full-breed cats have the most value. Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:54:33 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1175020 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1175020 ElliMelody To this I will add what my catlover knowledge has brought me to understand about calicos vs torties. I've had both. Also, I've ehard that tortoiseshells do tend to have personality problems.(AKA, my evil beloved tortie Willow is actually normal, for a tortoiseshell. My friend has an abnormal one, which is a nice kitty.) Calico: Tend to have a lot of white, and their coloring appears in patches. Tortoiseshell: Have little to no white and their coloring is more mixed. (Just put the colors of a calico in a blender!) They can still be patched, but their patches are less refined. (Mine has a ginger spot on her chest and a strip on her belly, and one pure black paw.) I have seen tortoiseshell and white cats, but they are harder to find. Just my two cents! As for the original question, male calicos, and torties for that matter, are indeed extremely rare, and almost always sterile. Its not impossible to get a fertile male calico/tortie, but the likelihood that YOUR character would be owning one is extremely implausible, but not impossible. If you dto add a backsttile male calico, you might want to add a backstory for the cat, like a gift from the character's uncle who traveled the world and met a man who had the cat, and the uncle wanted to get it for the MC and probably paid lots of money for it. Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:20:34 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1175708 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1175708 beautiflaw I had a male calico. His name was Pieface. Unfortunately I don't know if he was sterile or not because he didn't live long enough to reach maturity. My neighbor's dog killed him. My family had no idea how rare male calicoes were until he'd been dead for years and years. My family had always had a lot of cats though, so honestly I'm not surprised that we ended up with a male calico after all the litters we'd had and all the strays that kept getting the girls preggers. My parents weren't exactly responsible pet owners, and never got any of the cats spayed or neutered. Sat, 10 Mar 2012 00:59:28 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202207 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202207 merachelanne Calici. Sat, 10 Mar 2012 01:05:45 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202214 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202214 frenziedmythology Sorry about your cat, I had a cat who just. . .disappeared one day. I really loved that cat. His name was Hector. Sat, 10 Mar 2012 05:38:42 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202388 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1202388 RaineMidnaSage You know, I was told a female orange was just as rare as a male calico, but I saw one in PetSmart once. I think if it's a possibility as someone above already showed it can be, use it. See, there's a lot of rarities in the world. You hear about certain physical traits that's so rare only a handful of people have it. The point is, they do. It has to happen to someone to happen at all. I don't think it's necessary to have a traveling uncle who searches out rare cats and decides to bring it home. The world's tallest man can be found in a small village somewhere. Why can't your character have a fertile male calico just because it was born that way to his female kitty? Have it be a shock to them to find out it's fertile. Have the character surprised to find out how rare it is. I think addressing it for what it is would be really cool way to breathe that extra little life into the story. ~~Kat Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:12:21 -0700 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1219431 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1219431 xengab Orange what? Tabby cat? Nope that one is a myth. More males are born orange but females arent that uncommon at all. My sister has two orange tabby females. Tue, 20 Mar 2012 12:43:06 -0700 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1226717 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1226717 RaineMidnaSage Huh, I just looked that up. That's interesting, but I've never verified my friend's claims before now. It's not the first time I later discovered her words weren't true. God, I'm gullible! XD Either way, my main point still stands. If it's possible, even if it's rare, use it. :) ~~Kat Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:47:36 -0700 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1227540 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/reference-desk/threads/50066?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1227540