Do you think it seems 'fake' that a NeoPagan and a Muslim would date? http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582 Lex Scriven That's part of my story. The NeoPagan is female and the Muslim is male, by the way. I considered making him agnostic, but I know for a fact I want him to be of Iranian descent. Thoughts? Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:01:11 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_267937 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_267937 Tidus-s_Girl doens't seem fake to me.. Fri, 28 Oct 2011 19:10:50 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_270937 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_270937 EricHopkins If it's a pairing that seems to present incongruities and conflict, then it sounds perfect for a novel! Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:20:34 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_272667 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_272667 Cadaverine I don't think so. People's beliefs differ within religions, so neither would *necessarily* hold views that would make this relationship difficult. Also, people can be of Iranian descent and be agnostic ;) Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:22:29 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_272703 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_272703 LDRobwell It presents certain problems since paganism is the lowest of lows in the islamic perspective. My friend Marlene is very active in a few covens and is dating a muslim who is much more liberal than the religion usually tolerates but he has a very hard time with her paganism because of everything he'd been taught since childhood. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 01:50:19 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_276288 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_276288 Backbones being of iranian descent doesn't mean the character has to be a muslim. o_O Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:42:44 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_276801 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_276801 Lex Scriven Thank you, now to only hope I present those things in a respectful manner. :/ Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:07:21 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277443 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277443 Lex Scriven Oh I know that last bit, but I suppose I was defaulting to "he's agnostic" because that's easier. But maybe I don't want it to be easier? Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:08:11 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277449 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277449 Lex Scriven Thank you. Maybe that's something I'll have to include. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:08:55 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277453 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277453 Lex Scriven You've misread my statement, haha, I meant that originally I had wanted him to be agnostic, but then considered making him Muslim. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:09:24 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277460 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277460 Cadaverine Certainly it will make it more interesting! :D Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:26:03 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277542 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_277542 unicawn i live in Luton, Bedfordshire... anything can happen. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:27:23 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_303987 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_303987 TheDragonTempest Well, I'm Pagan and a practicing witch who is married to a non-practicing Roman Catholic, so I think it sounds perfectly plausible. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:01:34 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_329633 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_329633 TheTabster I think it really depends on the two people -- there are a LOT of inter-faith marriages worldwide that do work, just as there are a lot that don't. The question has to be, are the two people okay with and capable to connect on an in-depth level, while having different fundamental faiths, or are they so determined and set in their faiths that it would be impossible. Like, for me personally, I can't do it. My faith is such a fundamental part of who I am, that to be in a relationship with someone that I can't share that with, that does not believe similarly to me, destroys me. It's like I have to keep a part of myself completely separate, and especially when your root morals and faiths are different, that can be too difficult for some people. On the other hand, I've known couples whose commitment to their faith, despite it being different from one another's was the very thing with which they connected on; rather than the differences, they were able to find the similarities and grow in a relationship together. So to answer your question -- no, it would not seem fake if they're able to work together beyond their faith :) Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:38:52 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_330480 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_330480 TitiansRed Hey, hey! Not fake at all. Like others have said, it provides plenty of conflict so don't be afraid to dive right in and explore that. And as far as being respectful goes, I admire that, but speaking as a Muslim artist (with a Pagan mother--true story) you have to throw that respect out the window. You will never get anything written otherwise, at least anything interesting. Imagine if they entire world of writing kept it polite...snooze. Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:15:58 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_357369 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_357369 Rob(literated) I think your male character will be very at odds with the Shia Muslim community in this case. It's pretty clear cut that Muslim men are able to marry Muslim, Christian, or Jewish women, but nobody outside of the Abrahamic tradition. The idea of "dating" flies in the face of traditional Islam as well. Most people get engaged, then married. "Dating" is considered *haram* amongst traditional Muslims, both Sunni and Shia alike. So most likely your Muslim will have to be a rebel, or non-observant. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 00:01:04 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_377546 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_377546 RobertLent [quote=Backbones] being of iranian descent doesn't mean the character has to be a muslim. o_O [/quote] Iran is about 98% Muslim, but there are religious minorities. There are about 350,000 Baha'i, 300,000 Christians, 60,000 Zoroastrians, 25,000 Jews and about 68,000 Hindus. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:06:15 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_391847 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_391847 RobertLent Real life is full of all kinds of couples that you didn't expect to see. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:07:25 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_391884 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_391884 LeAnnJ It is your writing. It is what you make of it. With words, anything is possible. Nothing 'fake' about a NeoPagan and Muslim dating. Rather interesting idea if you ask me. Would like to hear how it turns out with the two religious backgrounds being so very different from each other. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 13:32:51 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_394381 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_394381 SevastianVolkov I'm a fairly devout Muslim. My last partner was a hardline atheist who found it actively offensive that I was religious. As long as I was able to at least give our children some background in Islam growing up so they wouldn't feel left out if they wanted to commit to Islam later, I didn't mind so much. He agreed to that. (Yeah, but then again I'm dating other men which is not halal to like 95 percent of Muslims no matter how liberal they are. Although there are queer organizations like Al-Fatiha and I've also met LGBTQ Muslims, and even some who try to do everything halal, like a lesbian couple who had a date to evaluate one another and then had the nikkah right after.) For the Muslim guy it would probably be weird for him not to raise his children with some background in Islam because it would be a big part of how he experienced his own culture and being Persian. You know, presents on Eid and what his mom made for iftar dinners. If they discussed what their kids would be raised as it could cause some issues. If she insisted on raising them to worship a fertility goddess it would make him uncomfortable because he believes in Allah (SWT) and it would be like they weren't Persian. Like an American kid not getting to celebrate Halloween or Christmas. Of course if he took her around to meet the folks and other people in his community there would be pressure on her to convert - everybody likes a convert - and especially there would be problems because a mother should be able to raise her children to be Muslims. I can't imagine anyone would react well to her being a neopagan, putting other deities before Allah (SWT) is a huge sin in Islam. It seriously depends on the Muslim. You can find five Muslims with six different takes on this kind of thing, but from what I've seen inter-religion dating isn't a gigantic world ending deal, we're allowed to have Jewish or Christian wives 100 percent halal. I think just about all the married Muslims I know wound up with a Christian somehow. You could stretch that to include neopagans if you really wanted to and of course people are always making the argument that all good people will go to heaven. Muslims in Western countries ... I think most of us will date although a big segment of the population is pretending to do it the halal way (which apparently has something to do with chatting a lot online, you're technically not in the same room so it's halal, right? Haha). Male and female Muslims can be friends, but it's haram to be alone in the same room with a member of the opposite sex. So if two serious Muslim guys are hanging out with a girl and one of them goes to the bathroom, it's funny watching the last guy make an excuse to get away for five minutes. But you can Google around and find Muslim dating websites even. They could be friends with one another and then decide to start dating like any other two people. It happens every day. (Obviously your fiqh may vary! I'm just making very general observations. I would look up The Taqwacores book and movie, if you want a quick primer on the variety of attitudes and experiences among Western Muslims. Also Muslim blogs like Maniac Muslim.) Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:48:23 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_400889 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_400889 Lex Scriven Thank you so much for this. I've cut the male love interest back for my NaNo version of this story because it was just too awkward to write, but in my rewrite I'll definitely be exploring him more. Your post was very helpful! Tue, 08 Nov 2011 00:50:20 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_568735 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_568735 lurgee It would probably depend on the family background. Depending on how conservative they are, he might be put under pressure to terminate an 'improper' relationship. This isn't a Muslim thing, just a conservative-tribalist thing. Equally, the girl might come under pressure from strident members of her sect to stop seeing the 'Monotheist'. Tirbalism being a two-way street, or something like that. Muslim men are permitted to marry non-Muslim women, but I'm not sure how that applies to women who aren't 'people of the book'. Polythiests and pagans get pretty short shrift in the Koran, according to some interperations, so if the boy's family cleave to a fairly hardline approach, it might be a problem. But then, probelms are what fiction is made of, right? Thu, 10 Nov 2011 04:22:38 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_615471 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_615471 nodgene [quote=LDRobwell] It presents certain problems since paganism is the lowest of lows in the islamic perspective. My friend Marlene is very active in a few covens and is dating a muslim who is much more liberal than the religion usually tolerates but he has a very hard time with her paganism because of everything he'd been taught since childhood. [/quote] This. The Islamic prophet was persecuted for years by Meccan Pagans, they eventually started killing Muslims, so he fled to Christian Ethiopia, where the local king was impressed by his recital of Biblical verse and welcomed them with open arms. That's the source of the bad blood between the groups, and it didn't help that Jewish tribes ganged up with the Meccan pagans to try and engineer his demise. That is where Islamic anti-Semitism stems from; an inaccurate understanding of that era both historically and theologically. Nonetheless after much bloodshed classical Islam says that good Muslims should always accept peace whenever their rival offers it. So it depends how scholarly the Muslim character is, and what Islamic sect they are from. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:06:34 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_642071 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_642071 nodgene [quote=RobertLent] [quote=Backbones] being of iranian descent doesn't mean the character has to be a muslim. o_O [/quote] Iran is about 98% Muslim, but there are religious minorities. There are about 350,000 Baha'i, 300,000 Christians, 60,000 Zoroastrians, 25,000 Jews and about 68,000 Hindus. [/quote] An old school friend of mine was of Iranian descent. His father and their family fled Iran during the revolution, as they were Bah'ai and feared persecution. It stands to reason that the dispora would be more likely to be non-Muslim. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:09:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_642118 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_642118 JulieReyn I suppose it depends on how religious his family is. I'm positive they wouldn't have problems with each others *practices* if he came from a family that kept the old pre-Muslim Persian festivals - such as Jashn-e Sada and Haft Sinn. A neo-pagan would feel very much at home with these, at least. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:54:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_729619 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_729619 tereseh Although many posters above already have helped you on the matter I just wanted to point out that I'm in a sort of similar position and tell my story: My fiance is Muslim, and has a very strong belief. And I am not nor shall I ever be a Muslim (I grew up Lutheran, but am right now sort of... I believe in myself, it's good enough for me:) ). We have an agreement, that we can each believe in whatever we want to or don't want to, and practice that belief to our heart's content as long as we don't force our belief on the other. Love is blind and conquers all. :) I also want to note that because I'm not Muslim his family won't accept me. If I would turn Muslim, they said that they would welcome me with open arms. As I refused to convert they won't even see me now and they have even bullied my fiance to leave me. Which he wont. My two cents. Hope it helps, and keep writing! :D ps. I'm not saying this is the stereotype for Muslims, I'm just sharing my story. :) I'm okay with all religions and beliefs. I just wished all the religions and beliefs would be okay with me. And each other. [quote]So most likely your Muslim will have to be a rebel, or non-observant. [/quote] Or he just has to fall truly madly deeply in love? ;) Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:13:05 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_731739 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_731739 Rob(literated) That's interesting, because I believe that traditional Muslim jurisprudence allows for a Muslim man to marry a Jewish or Christian woman since they're still "people of the book" as long as the children are raised Muslim. So I find it a bit confusing and sad that his family would reject you off the bat, since you could always maybe play up the Christianity bit and according to their religion it's still okay (although I guess maybe your relationship isn't okay, since you're not married and together?). Of course, a Muslim woman marrying a Jewish or Christian man isn't allowed, because Abrahamic religions LOVE those double standards. But that's another matter entirely. Thu, 17 Nov 2011 22:08:21 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_748292 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/religious-spiritual-new-age/threads/13582?page=1#forum_thread_comment_748292