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What Counts in the Word Count

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Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Please note: This thread IS NOT for for general rules questions. It's JUST for "can I count XXX in my official word count" questions. Off-topic questions will be removed. You can start a new thread for other questions, or ask on an existing thread. Be sure and read the FAQs and at least the first page of threads here in the Rules forum before starting a new thread. The odds are good that your question has already been asked, and answered.

Everything you type into your file you call "novel" in November counts. This means:

Includable

Title
Epilogues
Prologues
Dedications
Introductions
Forewords
Afterwords
Epigraphs
Prefaces
Author's Notes
Endnotes
Footnotes
Appendices
Glossaries
Chapter titles
The actual prose

Things you probably shouldn't count:

Headers
Footers
Page Numbers
In-line notes that aren't a part of your final work

Things you can't count

Anything that isn't a word... graphics, charts, graphs, markup. Text only.
Anything written by you outside of November
Blurbs
About the Author

If you are quoting other works (such as lyrics, poems, movies, plays, books, etc.) you MAY count them towards your final word count goal. (Whether or not the items are copyright and you're allowed topublish your book with such excerpts is an entirely different matter.) Opinions differ on whether or not this is ethical, so in the end, only count what you absolutely feel you have to.

I don't see why the author's name wouldn't count, but I'm leaving that up to you. It's important to note that this is not a "write 50k" challenge... it's a "write a novel" challenge. If it's not something that you would consider a part of a novel, then it's best to leave it out. After all, in the end, your real prize is your novel... and if you don't have a real novel, then you won't feel very accomplished at all!

(If you want to know anything and everything about the technical aspects of word counting, your excerpt posting and your profile page, check the Tech Help forum.

Tamisin Flame
29231 words so far

Does a * symbol count or not?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Tamisin Flame wrote:
Does a * symbol count or not?


Sure. :) The word counter is illiterate, and does not know the difference between letters and symbols. If it belongs in your novel, it counts.

Tamisin Flame
29231 words so far

Ok, thanks!

g.cook2013
52003 words so far Winner!

Thanks for this! I have page numbers in my novel, and they do affect the word count, so I'll make sure to remove those before I validate :)

AshCat13
8104 words so far

I posted this in another thread before I saw this thread, but I hope it can be answered here.

This is my first time doing NaNo, but my mother has done it in the past, and she tells me that you can simply cross out sections that were made obsolete by a later development or that you decided to replace rather than simply deleting them, thereby reducing your word count.
So, my question is, can you simply cross out stuff you aren't using anymore, or do you have to delete it?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

AshCat13 wrote:
I posted this in another thread before I saw this thread, but I hope it can be answered here.

This is my first time doing NaNo, but my mother has done it in the past, and she tells me that you can simply cross out sections that were made obsolete by a later development or that you decided to replace rather than simply deleting them, thereby reducing your word count.
So, my question is, can you simply cross out stuff you aren't using anymore, or do you have to delete it?


Deletion is strongly discouraged, and it's totally fine to include things you plan to remove later. Another method is to change the text color to white, so you can't see it, but it still counts.

AshCat13
8104 words so far

One more thing: I hate to have extraneous stuff cluttering up my workspace (in this case, my story), so I often cut and paste it out only a different page, but still within the same document and therefore included in the word count as well. Is this okay too?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

AshCat13 wrote:
One more thing: I hate to have extraneous stuff cluttering up my workspace (in this case, my story), so I often cut and paste it out only a different page, but still within the same document and therefore included in the word count as well. Is this okay too?


Certainly! I do it all the time. I actually use either Scrivener or Liquid story binder, and I will cut things I want to remove and place them in a separate chapter that will still get compiled with the rest of my novel, but is out of the way.

AshCat13
8104 words so far

Thanks so much. The extra "deleted" stuff was boosting my word count, but I wanted to make sure it was okay.

cassileith
13537 words so far

So i started my book a ten months ago and have 23,300 words already. Should i include them in the word count or just the words i type this month? I am still shooting for 50,000 additional words, but my total would be around 75,000.

AshCat13
8104 words so far

Not that I am staff or anything, I would suggest just storing them in two separate documents and only counting and logging the story that is actually typed in November. That way it is more of a "strive for 50k" thing than a "strive to expand" sort of thing. Also, if you start your word count from 0 rather than 25k, it is easier to track your progress and to make use of the many available tracking features available on NaNo.

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

cassileith wrote:
So i started my book a ten months ago and have 23,300 words already. Should i include them in the word count or just the words i type this month? I am still shooting for 50,000 additional words, but my total would be around 75,000.


Works in progress do not count in your word count. Our rules state that you must start from scratch. See this thread for more information: http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/rules-regulations-and-other-minutiae/threads/21744.

Erica Cash
30847 words so far

i have a question that's been nagging at me, "can we include a poem of saying by another person before our actual work in the word count used as a prologue or something?"

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Erica Cash wrote:
i have a question that's been nagging at me, "can we include a poem of saying by another person before our actual work in the word count used as a prologue or something?"


From the first post:

Quote:If you are quoting other works (such as lyrics, poems, movies, plays, books, etc.) you MAY count them towards your final word count goal. (Whether or not the items are copyright and you're allowed topublish your book with such excerpts is an entirely different matter.) Opinions differ on whether or not this is ethical, so in the end, only count what you absolutely feel you have to.


Does this answer your question?

Erica Cash
30847 words so far

yes it does, this makes much better sense then the FAQ. thank you :)

Cassandra432
50267 words so far Winner!

Does an outline count toward the word count if it was started on Nov 1st?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Cassandra432 wrote:
Does an outline count toward the word count if it was started on Nov 1st?


Probably not. Outlines are not intended to be in the actual novel itself.

bevellen
79110 words so far Winner!

I'm a first timer here at NaNo. After reading a few forum comments I'm feeling confused about what 'winning' entails. My novel's story feels huge to me at this time and will most likely take much more than 50k before I can write, "the end". In sketchy outlines I've divided it up into book sections - book 1, book 2 kind of thing. Would those be considered a complete novel? Or is it all about the final count of words written, or....?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

bevellen wrote:
I'm a first timer here at NaNo. After reading a few forum comments I'm feeling confused about what 'winning' entails. My novel's story feels huge to me at this time and will most likely take much more than 50k before I can write, "the end". In sketchy outlines I've divided it up into book sections - book 1, book 2 kind of thing. Would those be considered a complete novel? Or is it all about the final count of words written, or....?


Many people do indeed write books in that fashion! I think in this case, it would be much like other books I've read, that are a single, huge novel, but are broken up in sortof superchapters, with book 1 added to them. It's all a cohesive work, but broken up, you know?

I think that it would probably count. In your mind, do you see it as a single novel? If so, then it's fine. :) Remember that 50k is just a threshold for winning... not a limit!

urbadave
63097 words so far Winner!

Back when I was writing short stories and sending them to be published, they paid by the word (probably still do). There was a formula for figuring word count for something written in standard manuscript format. This is sort of how it went.
1: Find a block paragraph with at least 5 complete lines. Count the number of characters and spaces in those lines, and divide by 25. That gives you the average number of words per line.
2: Count the number of lines in the story and multiply by average words per line.
That's your word count.
The idea was to measure how much space it would take in the magazine or book, not the number of actual words.
Is this how NaNoWriMo does it, or is it just counting the number of words (which is what most word processors to)?
You come up with radically different number counts this way.
Word processor word count: 9280.
Standard Manuscript count: 13125.
Any idea what the verifier does?

Gryphon-kl
25539 words so far

The verifier counts actual words. More accurately, it counts the spaces, so it's going to be closer to the word processor count but might be a bit different from it.

urbadave
63097 words so far Winner!

Thanks. I've been using the simpler, word-processor method, so I should be fine.

Rowan-in-ruins
50135 words so far Winner!

Can a table of contents be counted?

How about an index?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Rowan-in-ruins wrote:
Can a table of contents be counted?

How about an index?




I'd say yes to both, although most fiction novels do not include an index.

Schadeboy
0 words so far

I am new to this as well, so please forgive the naivete of my question.

So the rule is we have to start a brand new book? Or can we count the words from a book we are working on, so long as we only count those words that were written in November? I'm down with the latter part if that's the case. I have a novel I'm working on that's nearly 20,000 words long and while I have other ideas for stories, I'd rather not get involved in writing another novel while I'm in the middle of this first one. I'm not certain I'd actually finish this novel by the end of November anyway. But still, I wouldn't mind taking part in all of this with my current work.

-Brian Schade

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Schadeboy wrote:
I am new to this as well, so please forgive the naivete of my question.

So the rule is we have to start a brand new book? Or can we count the words from a book we are working on, so long as we only count those words that were written in November? I'm down with the latter part if that's the case. I have a novel I'm working on that's nearly 20,000 words long and while I have other ideas for stories, I'd rather not get involved in writing another novel while I'm in the middle of this first one. I'm not certain I'd actually finish this novel by the end of November anyway. But still, I wouldn't mind taking part in all of this with my current work.

-Brian Schade


This thread is for asking "what counts in the word count" questions. You'll find the answer to your question in this thread and in the FAQs.

Elyndra
58058 words so far Winner!

It's not really important I'm just curious.
I started in Dutch, but decided that it really wasn't working and switched back to English. Now I just can't help but translate the first part to English, that's just who I am. I know I could just leave it and do it after November, but that doesn't feel right. I've been doing this after reaching my word count for the day so it doesn't really matter, but someone mentioned that I should count the translating to the word count too since they are still words I wrote. I'm not planning on doing this, but it did get me curious whether or not this was allowed to be counted.

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Elyndra wrote:
It's not really important I'm just curious.
I started in Dutch, but decided that it really wasn't working and switched back to English. Now I just can't help but translate the first part to English, that's just who I am. I know I could just leave it and do it after November, but that doesn't feel right. I've been doing this after reaching my word count for the day so it doesn't really matter, but someone mentioned that I should count the translating to the word count too since they are still words I wrote. I'm not planning on doing this, but it did get me curious whether or not this was allowed to be counted.


I would say you would have to count either translation, but not both. They're not actually different words, it's the same text, retranslated. :) It would be like me writing by hand, then typing it in, but counting each set twice isn't really writing new text. :)

I would suggest counting whichever translation gives you the most words, but only that one. :)

Elyndra
58058 words so far Winner!

That was the plan, but thank you for answering, it's always good to know.

saiki
50493 words so far Winner!

So I should not include notes for revision in the word count? For example: Chapter Seven should happen earlier in the story.

bruadair
14179 words so far

Does it have to be exactly 50,000 words or can it be over?

(Not that I am anywhere near the golden number right now!)

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

bruadair wrote:
Does it have to be exactly 50,000 words or can it be over?

(Not that I am anywhere near the golden number right now!)


Hi bruadair. This thread isn't for rules questions, Please see the FAQs for your answer.

Jim Miller
70057 words so far Winner!

A friend of mine got to 12k and then decided it wasn't working and started over. She's only gotten 4k done now. Does she just forget the first batch of words? I thought that as long as the second wasn't a re-write that it all counts in a first draft. After all, when it's done, there may be a place in the novel for that first batch. Comment?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Jim Miller wrote:
A friend of mine got to 12k and then decided it wasn't working and started over. She's only gotten 4k done now. Does she just forget the first batch of words? I thought that as long as the second wasn't a re-write that it all counts in a first draft. After all, when it's done, there may be a place in the novel for that first batch. Comment?


If it's all on the same novel, and all written in November, it doesn't matter what order she writes it in. She can count it. :)

pegleg kitty
35000 words so far

I restart almost every time because something is so badly broken that continuing is insane. I don't mean block saving parts and reusing them. I mean redoing the whole flippin' thing, from scratch. That's fair game.

Nothing in the rules says that the month's labor has to be a perfect, publishable book by midnight Dec. 1. In fact, writing boldly, even badly, is the stated point of NaNo. Sometimes that oddball idea winds up being the good idea that normal people - or even abnormal writers - would cast aside if it was not for the voracious appetite of the word-count thingy that is gobbling our time this month.

Look at it this way: If you can't start over, you can't afford to take risks on that wild idea that may or may not work. With such a mentality, many writers would opt for dull but safe, just to get word count.

It's a first draft. It's damaged. It's going to have parts x'd out if you're planning to rewrite and publish because THAT'S THE POINT of a first draft. Starting over is the same thing as having a scene that doesn't work, only that scene is at the beginning.

If anything, we should encourage people to start over - as long as they're not block-saving old stuff and counting the same passages twice.

IvoryJaied
50203 words so far Winner!

I'm not sure if this is where I should ask, but it seems appropriate. If not, then I apologize.

I'm just wondering if hyphenated words are counted as one, or two? Like, if I were to write, "half-way down the street", would "half-way" be counted as two words, or one?

Halite
50188 words so far Winner!

In my experience, Microsoft Word counts hyphenated words as one word. The NaNo counter counts spaces, so it'll be counted as one word there also. In both situations, it'll be counted as one word. I usually type that specific phrase without a hyphen anyways.

Lousy Writer 13
51300 words so far Winner!

Hyphenated words are, typically,. one word... "twenty-three" is one word, for example. If it is not supposed to be a single word, I'd suggest keeping the hyphen out so that the two words get counted separately.

firefly_dream
12190 words so far

Hi, just to make sure: if we write our novel in a language other than English it still qualifies, isn't it? I am writing in Romanian because it is my mother tongue and my novel it's mostly fiction but partially autobiographic and I want my family to be able to read it! Just please tell me that's okay.

Lousy Writer 13
51300 words so far Winner!

You may write in whatever language is comfortable for you or appropriate for your novel. Good luck!

misslynx
58171 words so far Winner!

I've found that using Scrivener makes it easy to get confused about what should go in the word count and what shouldn't. It allows you to create and keep so much information about your story - character and setting sketches, research notes, chapter and scene synopses, etc. - that it's easy to spend a ton of time writing stuff that isn't actually part of the manuscript per se.

The default setting is to count only documents marked to include in the final compile, which I guess is the appropriate setting for NaNo word counts - but it can be a real eye-opener to uncheck that box once in a while, and see how much I've REALLY written so far this month! (As of this moment: 8620 words that will be included in compile, but 17,157 is the actual total without that restriction! If this trend continues, by the time I've written 50,000 words officially, I'll have written more like 100,000 unofficially. Yikes!)

ArcticOokami
12591 words so far

Every time I switch a scene, I use "-----" and then go to the next scene. Microsoft Word seems to count that, does the validator count it? D:

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

ArcticOokami wrote:
Every time I switch a scene, I use "-----" and then go to the next scene. Microsoft Word seems to count that, does the validator count it? D:


Yes, it does. The validator doesn't know the difference between letters and symbols. I think it's fine to count it; there probably wouldn't be that many, and well... it belongs in your novel!

ArcticOokami
12591 words so far

Actually, there are already plenty of them... xD (I switch scenes a lot) But thanks for answering! :D

DogRoseiko
50461 words so far Winner!

Hey,

Sorry if this is already covered somewhere - I checked the FAQs and didn't find this topic.

So I just noticed that Word and Open Office (which I use) count words differently. Open Office is more generous in its definition of a word, so my NaNo file is actually 500 words shorter in Word. I've gathered from this thread that Word and the NaNo validator might produce somewhat similar frequencies - however, I'm beginning to fear that I will have to write a lot more than 50k in Open Office!

If Open Office counts more words in my file than the NaNo validator will do, what can I do to have a more realistic view of my word count? I can't switch to Word at this point, having exceeded 16k ...or can I? Actually, should I?? It would drop the word count by some hundreds of words at least. I'm looking for some peace of mind, so please advise!


DogRoseiko
50461 words so far Winner!

Okay, I did some more digging, and discovered that Open Office users should be prepared for this. I think I'm going to switch to Word now and lick my wounds!

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

DogRoseiko wrote:
Hey,

Sorry if this is already covered somewhere - I checked the FAQs and didn't find this topic.

So I just noticed that Word and Open Office (which I use) count words differently. Open Office is more generous in its definition of a word, so my NaNo file is actually 500 words shorter in Word. I've gathered from this thread that Word and the NaNo validator might produce somewhat similar frequencies - however, I'm beginning to fear that I will have to write a lot more than 50k in Open Office!

If Open Office counts more words in my file than the NaNo validator will do, what can I do to have a more realistic view of my word count? I can't switch to Word at this point, having exceeded 16k ...or can I? Actually, should I?? It would drop the word count by some hundreds of words at least. I'm looking for some peace of mind, so please advise!





This thread is just for "what counts in the word count" questions; this is a program specific question, so you'll need to head over to NaNo Technology for the Open Office thread. (There is a way to fix it, you'll just need to check over there for details. :))

DogRoseiko
50461 words so far Winner!

OK, gotcha! Sorry about the cluelessness :)

Chevalier
65133 words so far Winner!

Don't know if this was answered somewhere else but what exactly constitutes an in-line note? I have some notes written down to include a new character in the novel and some information about said character, would that be able to be added to my word count?

Dragonchilde
9322 words so far

Chevalier wrote:
Don't know if this was answered somewhere else but what exactly constitutes an in-line note? I have some notes written down to include a new character in the novel and some information about said character, would that be able to be added to my word count?


I've always considered inline notes to be plot/character specific notes where you write things like [INSERT REALLY AWESOME DESCRIPTION OF A HORSE HERE]. They're notes to yourself made in the actual text.

What you're describing sounds more like planning to me, and probably wouldn't count.

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