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Is Dystopian Fiction considered Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

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Julia VV
50213 words so far Winner!

Question pretty much says it all....

ollave

Could be alternate history.

It's pretty easy to come up with scientific advances that permit dystopian societies: 1984, and 'nuff said.

I'd find it harder to come up with a dystopian fantasy; I suppose you *could*, but I'd wonder where the characters your readers are going to relate to fit.

All that said, I'm not a fan of dystopian fiction. (Or non-fiction.) So my opinion may not be worth a lot.

keolah
18170 words so far

I don't see why it would be hard to come up with a dystopian fantasy setting. Anything you can do with technology, you can do with magic. To think otherwise is putting your mind in a box, and the reason why we have so many carbon-copy pseudo-European-medieval fantasy settings.

Tooterfish
50242 words so far Winner!

Just saying it's a dystopia doesn't give enough info to decide whether it's SF or fantasy.

If your dystopia is populated by elves, it's fantasy.

If the elves are replaced with robots, its SF.

Not literally, but you get what I'm saying. :)

Gaylordcat
50664 words so far Winner!

Dystopian may be neither, even with elves and/or robots. It's a political thing, an world that is unpleasant, such as a totalitarian or environmentally degraded one. It can be futuristic, maybe with a few elves or some robots, but it might be called political fantasy or political SF; good example of both is our federal government where elves and robots dance a merry grand pas de deux.

The_Halla
62038 words so far Winner!

It all depends on what the author's first successful writing was about. If you first get published writing about divorced New Yorkers, you could write a novel set entirely on the planet Blabalfarg and featuring zombie elf computer hackers, and it would somehow end up on the "literary fiction" shelf.

I exaggerate slightly, but really there seems to be no particular rhyme or reason to it, and it ends up mostly being a marketing decision.

Examples:



  • 1984. By any reasonable, objective definition, this novel is SF. You will never find it on the SF/F shelf.


  • Fahrenheit 451. It's actually less SF than 1984 is, but because Bradbury made his name as a SF writer, it gets categorized either way.


  • The Road. The writing is "literary", and McCarthy is otherwise mostly known for realistic fiction, so this one ends up on the LitFic shelf.


  • We. About on a level with 1984 in terms of its discussion of technology, but tends (for whatever reason) to show up more often in SF/F. What role it's being Russian plays in this I'm not sure.


  • Brave New World. Huxley's novel is absolutely SF, and was contemporary with a lot of the early pulp sci-fi, but I have never found it on a SF/F shelf.


  • The Hunger Games. Since it's written for a YA audience, it's treated as "genre immune".


  • Do Androids Dream Electric Sheep?. Philip K. Dick seems to have ended up in a weird pocket (along with Bradbury, Heinlen, and a few others) where he is pretty much definitively considered SF but taken seriously anyway. In any case, most of his writing could be considered dystopian in one way or another.


  • Spin. Robert Charles Wilson's novel is very character-driven, but since it also has a hard-SF component, it is relegated to the SF/F shelf.



I suppose the takeaway is, dystopian fiction gets counted as SF if the publishing industry says it is. (I don't think I've ever seen it called "fantasy" unless it is explicitly so--i.e. the dystopia has a specifically magical or supernatural cause.)

lasalle202
6 words so far

The_Halla wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen it called "fantasy" unless it is explicitly so--i.e. the dystopia has a specifically magical or supernatural cause.


some steampunk stuff

Dennis Dunjinman
50006 words so far Winner!

But where are the novels where things are supposed to be good? Where do the eutopian novels lie?

We know our community isn't perfect, but we're trying our best. We really are.

lasalle202
6 words so far

The Dystopias are Sci Fi and the Utopias are Fantasy?????

Tooterfish
50242 words so far Winner!

All of my dystopics have been scifi, but now that I think about it, I haven't ever written a utopian piece. Utopias are boring!

Dennis Dunjinman
50006 words so far Winner!

And Dystopias are selfish jerks, but everyone somehow loves those. It's why every TV show these days is a comedy about people complaining how all their friends are selfish jerks who only exist to screw each other over. Injury and loss is funny!

Then someone steps in with a Eutopia, and then the Dystopias are going to scramble as everyone secretly starts fleeing en masse to start new lives in the good place. Maybe the Eutopia isn't perfect, but sure as sure the chances are better than living in Dystopia.

What kind of sick minds create Dystopian places, anyway, the same ones that invented outdoor day cares surrounded with barbed wire and logs as the only toy to play with, while saying it was on the grounds of some school for gifted chidlren? The activities there were never fun and none of the children were nice. I was glad to be away from it when it was over. Any place, even regular places that were not Eu were better than sticking around there.

RobertLent
50626 words so far Winner!

I'm tired of dystopias myself. Not because they are bad, but I think they have become overused. The tricky thing about a utopia is what's your story? Dystopia is easier, the enemy is more straightforward, an oppressive government, corporation, theocracy, etc. Problems to be solved abound in dystopias, and novels are based on problems. It seems obvious that even a good society has things to overcome. The original series of Star Trek was optimistic, for the most part, it saw enemies as being on the outside, rather than seeing enemies on the inside.

I once read a story - I forget the name - about a man who traveled to the future. When he got there, he saw that the future was a bleak, hopeless dystopia. When he returned to the present, rather than telling people how bad the future was, he lied. He told them that it was a paradise, and they went out and built that paradise.

We live in a world that, in many ways, would be seen as a paradise to previous generations. Look at our problems we have: instead of worrying about too little food, we worry about too much food. We can have fresh fruit any time we want it. Just look at our entertainment options, we have an vast array to choose from. Travel is common, rather than rare.

Then there is medical care, you get an infection, and rather than dying, you take a few pills and you're fine. that would be magic to people in the past. Other diseases are distant memories. King Henry the VIII would have given a duchy in exchange for modern medical care. Antibiotics and insulin (many think he was diabetic) would have kept him healthy and extended his life considerably. With modern medical care, he would have had plenty of heirs, and have them survive. The Tudor dynasty might still rule Britain if he had access to modern medicine.

Of course, we do have our own problems that aren't insignificant. Quite often, they aren't the same problems that the past had. I think the big challenge in writing a story in a utopia (I don't mean a perfect society, just a good one) is to figure out what challenges that utopia will face, and then you can write a good story.

Dystopias absolutely have their place. 1994, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World, they tell important stories that couldn't be told in a utopia. I just think a utopia of some sort would be a refreshing change of pace.

rbingham2000
0 words so far

Quite a lot of Dystopian fiction is written as a kind of cautionary tale which comments upon our own world. Basically, it serves as a warning: don't let this happen here. Our general leeriness toward any kind of electronic monitoring, for example, is influenced quite strongly by Orwell's 1984, where telescreens that receive and transmit simultaneously are one of the main methods that the Party uses to keep tabs on its citizens.

Webgoji
50907 words so far Winner!

Most classic dystopias have been sci-fi however, as noted above, they could be just about anything. But if you think about it, many fantasy novels are actually dystopic societies. (Evil king that oppresses the people has to be overthrown. You know.)

Hyperewok1
473 words so far

I would say dystopias and sci-fi go almost hand in hand, seeing as most of them are set in the future and deal with governments oppressing the people with advanced technology and such. Of course, that's a very broad statement. For example, a good exception would be V for Vendetta, which is dystopian and set in the future, but I wouldn't really say it has any elements of sci-fi other then that it takes place in the future.

keolah
18170 words so far

I'd generally say just being set in the future is enough to make something scifi. You certainly don't need advanced technology for it. (Post-apocalyptic as a subgenre tends to have a lower level of functional technology, but it's also definitely scifi generally. (unless it's after a fantastic apocalypse, but I haven't seen that as often.))

And utopias... if you can't think of a plot for a utopian setting, you're clearly not very creative. ;) I can think of plenty of general plots off the top of my head, both external (alien invasion, natural disaster, etc) and internal (social unrest, resource scarcity, individual problems... just because society is pretty darned good doesn't necessarily mean everyone's going to be happy all the time. There's always problems with romance, or being unable to get a job in the field you want because there's too many people wanting to do that, etc. A utopia shouldn't need to be "the world is perfect and everyone is happy all the time and all problems have been solved" anymore than a dystopia should need to be "the world is a crapsack and everyone is miserable all the time" -- Why can't we have some people in a dystopia who are perfectly happy, and some people in a utopia who are miserable anyway?)

Sayaren
6323 words so far

Wasn't the society in The Giver a dystopia disguised as a utopia?

Maydeleh
11455 words so far

One of the (many) things that makes the society in The Giver so fascinating is that it's hard to define it as a pure dystopia, or a pure utopia. I used to ask my students to write about how they would categorize it, and whether they would choose to live in such a community. A surprising number said yes, they would.

They feed, clothe, and educate their population. Everyone has a role in society, tailored to their abilities and personality. Children are raised in stable families. There's a strong community. The elderly are cared for and treated with respect. It's a hierarchical society, but not nearly to the extreme of most human communities past or present. There is a great deal to be said in favor of the way these people live.

Then there's the question of what they've given up, which is fairly horrifying. But they haven't traded in their human birthright for nothing. It's not a dysfunctional society, and I wouldn't call it evil. Damaged, perhaps, in ways that prevent the people in it from understanding how it's damaged.

bluestarz621
50186 words so far Winner!

YEP! :)

Peacant
50004 words so far Winner!

Pretty much what Tooterfish said.

However, make sure you actually have Dystopian fiction before you start saying that. A (seemingly) recent marketing move has been that Dystopian fiction has been slapped on any form of speculative fiction in which bad stuff happens. The Road is not Dystopian—there's no oppressive society. The Foundation series is not Dystopian—just because it's the future and bad stuff happens doesn't mean that counts.

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