Time to Scale Back

MeBeBri — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:34:29 +0000

All right, a million a year to run NaNo and YWP (please tell me this includes camp!)? That is just insane for a small non-profit such as this. Insanity. I realise websites are expensive to run, employees need paid, etc... but most of us are getting the results from NaNo one month out of the year. I repeat, one million? That is a lot of money. A LOT of money. Where can NaNo scale back? Honestly, are there certain features on the site we can do away with? Certain donor gifts we don't need? Does our hard-earned money pay for the staff's (understandable) coffee addiction, and if so, are we talking Folger's or an expensive fair-trade kind? The 'professional services' listed on the spreadsheet - how much do we put into our winner's certificates, and icons? Because as pretty as they are, I am sure we could find someone to do it for cheaper, perhaps a graphics design college student looking for a bit of dough. I am sorry for repeating this, but 1,000,000 is ridiculous, and it hasn't surprised me at all that we haven't reached it. I think some things need a major financial re-vamp by someone who not only treasures all this literary, but budgeting.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:06:01 +0000

I don't know that there is anywhere that can be successfully cut back on. Donor gifts are paid for by the donations made to acquire them. I assure you, they're not drinking expensive coffee in the office (it is tasty, but it's not expensive. I think that's Paige's brewing expertise at work) If you look at it... the bulk of the funds are going to operating costs. Just the plain old costs of doing business in this economy, at California prices. We might be able to go without paying staff, but believe me... we have families to take care of too, so we can't do this for free. Professional services includes people like me. :) I'm sure we could get a cheaper designer, but the designs we use go on all of our merchandise, and the quality of what we provide is important. If you cut out all the extras, we'd still have a huge budget, just because it costs money to provide what we do to the people we do. This is NOT a small operation. I know of nonprofits that serve a fraction of the people we do, and have larger budgets. And believe me... I don't actually get paid for all of the hours I put in here. None of us do. We're all working overtime out of the goodness of our heart (literally) and performing the duties of several people. We have unpaid interns who do a lot of the grunt work. We really do use every bit of it... these aren't projected expenses. This is actual money, we are spending now. Is it a lot? Of course! But we wouldn't ask for it if we didn't need it. We have a board of directors, and we're answerable to them, and to you. We don't profit from this, and every single dollar spent goes right back into the program in one way or another. If you don't feel like you've gotten anything out of this, then certainly, don't donate. We understand that not everyone can, either. But we do hope that those that can, will. This year, we're serving over a quarter million people. That's just NaNoWriMo - that doesn't include the other two events we do, either. (Yes, these numbers cover all of our programs, including Script Frenzy and Camp.) Last number I heard was closer to 300,000. I know that seems like a lot of money, but we aren't as small as you think. We reach thousands of classrooms and students, hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. I suppose we could go to Chris Baty's garage instead of an office to organize all this, but I don't think that everyone would fit. ;) (And believe me... I've seen his car. It's tiny. And he's a tall, tall man. So's Dan. Heck, the two of them would fill the garage on their own.) Think of it like this: with over 300,000 participants, that amounts to a hair over $3 a person to participate. We don't charge at all, for anything here. Not one person here has to pay. That's a pretty darn good bargain, considering what you get. But if you do have some constructive suggestions, we'd love to hear them... we're always looking for ways to make your dollars go farther.

Re: Time to Scale Back

cybele — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:11:08 +0000

I don't think the big ticket items are about the site. The big ticket item is the staff. Have you watched the fundraising video that explains a bit more about what we do with that money? Yes, it includes Camp, Script Frenzy and the Young Writers Projects (for both NaNo and Script Frenzy). Did you read over where you money goes? Because a lot of it is the extensive educational programs (staff to create and manage them). Thank you for your support and your advice if you see some spots for improvement.

Re: Time to Scale Back

jenifar_kd — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 04:23:30 +0000

Can I suggest that some aspects of the site become available to Donors only? For example, make it that anyone can join NaNo and write a novel and post it. But, if you want fancy 'I Won' bars and some of the other items people are looking for they come with the Donors package. So when people donate $5 or more the 'bells and whistles' are turned on. One of the downsides of being outside the USA is that international postage is such that the merchandise is double the price by the time it gets to me and NaNo is not tax deductable for me. So all I get for my $ donation is a good feeling - which I quite like having but a good feeling doesn't encourage everyone

Re: Time to Scale Back

Amberleaf29 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:25:22 +0000

No, I don't think that's a good idea. Can you imagine the uproar that would be caused by forcing people to pay to get the blue bars and stuff? It'd be crazy! Keep in mind that not everyone can donate and that only letting donors have services that I would presume have been around for years would not make ANYONE happy. I used to be on an adoptables site, and many people's favourite features were suddenly turned 'pay-only' one day. The reaction was crazy. And that site had only around 2,000 members then! Can you imagine the craziness *here*? /after midnight ramblings probably don't make sense

Re: Time to Scale Back

evila_elf — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 08:08:51 +0000

...what about paying to get the Word Count Scoreboards? I miss those so much. I would gladly donate 5-10 bucks to get all of the features that we never got to have back this year

Re: Time to Scale Back

kayl. — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:12:46 +0000

I'm with Amberleaf on this one. As much as making some parts of the site donor-only might help raise a little more money, it would lose an incredible number of people. Especially if it's things that are a core part of NaNoWriMo, such as the winner's bar. Not all of us can donate. I know it's been suggested and is probably in the works, but I think once we can see on the front page what each donation level is going towards more people might be inclined to donate. One million *is* a lot of money and, although I don't doubt it's needed, I'm guessing quite a few people are questioning just what it's going toward. Having that knowledge of "my money is going toward [whatever]" might make people feel better about donating.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Amberleaf29 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:15:23 +0000

Yeah, make the information so easily accessible that people don't have to search for it. It might incline some people who want to donate but are too lazy to find the info into donating! I think there is already something on the donations page but since when was it ever a bad thing to have that info in more places?

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:20:33 +0000

[quote=jenifar_kd] Can I suggest that some aspects of the site become available to Donors only? For example, make it that anyone can join NaNo and write a novel and post it. But, if you want fancy 'I Won' bars and some of the other items people are looking for they come with the Donors package. So when people donate $5 or more the 'bells and whistles' are turned on. One of the downsides of being outside the USA is that international postage is such that the merchandise is double the price by the time it gets to me and NaNo is not tax deductable for me. So all I get for my $ donation is a good feeling - which I quite like having but a good feeling doesn't encourage everyone [/quote] That's the one thing we can't do; NaNoWriMo is, and always will, be free. I've suggested some pay-for-stuff options, like username changes, but the fundamental aspects of NaNoWriMo must be free. That's what makes the event special. :)

Re: Time to Scale Back

jenifar_kd — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:04:20 +0000

[quote=Dragonchilde] That's the one thing we can't do; NaNoWriMo is, and always will, be free. I've suggested some pay-for-stuff options, like username changes, but the fundamental aspects of NaNoWriMo must be free. That's what makes the event special. :) [/quote] I agree about the event being free and I can see exactly where you're coming from. However, given the current exchange rates, lots of NaNoers being unemployed or students, and the tax deduction only being available in the USA - $US10 is a steep minimum donation for something we already get for free. Perhaps something other than a halo would be nice to encourage people to donate. Something as simple as donor only wallpaper.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Carolyn Branch — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 02:06:44 +0000

Can't help noting that most of the people commenting on the need to cut back have not donated at all. Why are you complaining? No one is twisting your arm. If you don't want to donate - just don't - and keep your opinions to yourself. I think the staff has done a great job this year- the site is much faster and there has been very little down time. I certainly get a lot of enjoyment and value for the small donation I make every year. I miss the word count scoreboard, but that is probably gone because of technical changes involved in getting the site onto a new platform and has little to do with funds.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 03:39:29 +0000

[quote=jenifar_kd] [quote=Dragonchilde] That's the one thing we can't do; NaNoWriMo is, and always will, be free. I've suggested some pay-for-stuff options, like username changes, but the fundamental aspects of NaNoWriMo must be free. That's what makes the event special. :) [/quote] I agree about the event being free and I can see exactly where you're coming from. However, given the current exchange rates, lots of NaNoers being unemployed or students, and the tax deduction only being available in the USA - $US10 is a steep minimum donation for something we already get for free. Perhaps something other than a halo would be nice to encourage people to donate. Something as simple as donor only wallpaper. [/quote] It's the minimum donation to get something back. You can make smaller donations by check or paypal directly in smaller amounts, although there's a certain point where fees and such just don't make sense with small enough donations.

Re: Time to Scale Back

KeikoCharna — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:08:04 +0000

I really don't think it's appropriate to tell people who might not be able to afford to donate to keep their opinions to themselves. Or even if they just didn't want to donate, they still have a right to give feedback. Like Dragonechilde said, NaNo is free for everyone and all participants have a right to give their opinion.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragle — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:37:18 +0000

[quote=KeikoCharna] I really don't think it's appropriate to tell people who might not be able to afford to donate to keep their opinions to themselves. Or even if they just didn't want to donate, they still have a right to give feedback. Like Dragonechilde said, NaNo is free for everyone and all participants have a right to give their opinion. [/quote] Totally agree, and also, just because someone doesn't show a halo doesn't necessarily mean they didn't donate. They may not have as big an ego as we do and donated anonymously. I wonder, would it be better not to have halos?

Re: Time to Scale Back

Ibibenibi — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:40:35 +0000

I'm grateful for this thread. I'd had similar thoughts ("A million dollars?! Are you kidding me?!"). Coupled with money being tight this year, I wasn't sure I'd donate this time around. Dragonchilde did such a great job of explaining things that I'm compelled now to chip in. I'd like her to have the same job next year :) I like the halos and don't want them to go away. I know several people who've decided to donate because all of their friends had them, or because it feels weird not to have one every year.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Jesina — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:53:10 +0000

Maybe my perception is skewed because I work for a large corporation and I see amounts much larger than that every day, but I work in finance and to me, a million dollars to run this organization doesn't seem like that much money. It really doesn't, particularly in light of the work done for schools. Re: The halos. They may cause some strife, but they also work. I was inclined to donate anyway, but I definitely felt a bit guilt-tripped by seeing the people in my region who had them when I didn't, and that encouraged me even further to donate.

Re: Time to Scale Back

dancingfool — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:45:10 +0000

I didn't read Carolyn's post as suggesting that those who don't donate, shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions about the budget; I read her post as expressing surprise that someone who is NOT donating, would propose cutbacks. Yes, I know she used the phrase 'If you don't want to donate... keep your opinions to yourself'.. but read the overall tone of her post. And I share her surprise. If someone is receiving something for free, and exercising their right to contribute nothing, and it's not as if our tax dollars support OLL, then it is surprising that there would be a criticism of the budget. btw, I choose to not do Script Frenzy, and I did not do either of the 2011 camps... and I have no children who might take part in YWP. One pool of staff handles NaNo, PLUS all of that. So I suppose in one sense, I'm not getting much 'value' for my dollar.. I only participate in 1 out of 4 or 5 programs (depending on whether you count the two camps as one or two programs). And that's ok. And if someone doesn't donate - maybe not because of finances, but because they feel 1 out of 4 or 5 is not enough, that's ok too. In my opinion, the pressure to donate is mighty small.

Re: Time to Scale Back

jenifar_kd — Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:20:56 +0000

I agree that the pressure to donate is small. That's why I was making the suggestions I was. And I'm happy that people are disagreeing with me as at least its being discussed [quote=dancingfool] I didn't read Carolyn's post as suggesting that those who don't donate, shouldn't be allowed to express their opinions about the budget; I read her post as expressing surprise that someone who is NOT donating, would propose cutbacks. Yes, I know she used the phrase 'If you don't want to donate... keep your opinions to yourself'.. but read the overall tone of her post. And I share her surprise. If someone is receiving something for free, and exercising their right to contribute nothing, and it's not as if our tax dollars support OLL, then it is surprising that there would be a criticism of the budget.[/quote] OK, leaving aside that some people feel that anyone who isn't contributing financially shouldn't be able to comment on the expenditure ... could everyone please consider the following - someone could buy $10,000 of merchanise and they won't get a halo while a $10 donor will - someone could donate less than $10 and not get a halo - someone could choose to not give their home address and donate by mail or direct to NaNo's paypay account and not get a halo.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 02:51:40 +0000

I just want to point out folks that we welcome and encourage everyone to give feedback, regardless of their apparent donation status in the forums. We don't place a fee on participation, nor do we place a fee on feedback. All are welcome to post, and we encourage positive and well as negative opinions. Most of the change in this event in the past decade or so has been because of user feedback, and we've never once checked whether or not the suggestion was made by someone who donated. Nor will we ever.

Re: Time to Scale Back

girlboxer5 — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:54:49 +0000

Seriously??? I donated $175 as a guest of someone to the NOWD, but since my donation was untracked, I'd lose out, even though it's more money than I've *ever* donated before.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Catana — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:25:33 +0000

I have no problems with the way the money is spent, although I was certain that a million bucks was an impossible goal in this economy. What I do think--and worry about--is that the original idea is being stretched too thin. The programs being developed are worthwhile, but they're far beyond the original intent. Is there some way to establish a separate foundation or non-profit corporation just for them? And then there's NaNo's increasing popularity, which may be putting the biggest strain on the system. The more it's publicized, and the more popular it becomes, the more people it attracts who aren't really interested in writing a novel. They come to compete, they come because their friends are doing it, they come in order to be able to say they wrote a novel, even if they've copied and pasted their little hearts out to be a "winner." I'm not sure anything can really be done about it, but sometimes I have the feeling that NaNo will eventually be destroyed by its own success.

Re: Time to Scale Back

dancingfool — Thu, 01 Dec 2011 23:16:55 +0000

I guess I'm not bothered by those who have somewhat different goals. You want to compete, you want to join your friends, you want to cheat? Big deal. I don't mind accommodating those people if it increases the likelihood of drawing in people (like me, 3 years ago) who would otherwise have never ventured outside of their safe little world. I mean - look at the front page.. over 3 billion words. and (sorry, can't remember who - Lindsay, perhaps) someone said there were nearly 300,000 people who signed up. Holy Cow! I hope you're wrong, Catana, not only because I'd hate to see NaNo destroyed, but bc I'd hate to see anything be destroyed bc it was too successful.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Catana — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:02:05 +0000

I certainly hope I'm wrong, but it has happened. Companies or non-profit projects get over-extended and they crash. I don't personally care why people join NaNo. Like you, I say if they want to cheat, that's their problem. But I suspect that the vast numbers of people who join up for all the wrong reasons are the least likely to contribute anything to keep it going. Look at the numbers. Less than 20% even make the goal each year, and less than 10% contribute. Even if you add in contributors who buy stuff and don't get haloes, or contribute by other means, the chances are good that it's still less than 20% supporting the 80% of party goers who use the resources but give nothing back.

Re: Time to Scale Back

ReadySetWrite — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 00:38:37 +0000

My mother is the VP of a tiny, grassroots non-profit. Through her, I know a lot of what it takes to get non-profits running. Trust me, one million is not that much. Think about it this way: Site redesign. This can cost thousands of dollars for a good one. Staff. There are 7(?) full time staff members. No, they don't get huge paychecks, but they want enough money to feed them, the cat, and pay rent. Website hosting. Again, this can cost a couple thousand a year. Rent. OLL needs a place to work. This also costs thousands. Stuff. As anyone knows, to work you need stuff. Pencils, paper, whiteboards, desks, computers, signs, lamps, software, coffee, snacks, etc. They need to pay for all of that. Tech. They've already said that they took money from other programs to make the redesign happen. They just have two tech guys. They want salaries, too. Classroom and library kits. YWP gives out hundreds of these every year. I went and looked at the price of one in the store. It's $20. I'm sure that they added some on to make a profit, but still, that's money they're giving away out of the goodness of their heart and the conviction that everyone should be able to do this. Neos. Nano buys neos and donates them to classrooms. Storage space. Warehouses for the merch. And there's a whole lot more that I can't think of right now. And think of 7 people. Just seven run FOUR month long events. They have to write pep talks, update the website, make winner and donor icons, make sure everything works, make videos, etc. Every time they have one of these events. If you work it out, that's just 1 1/4 personpower per event. Even if they could find a graphics design person to do the badges, etc, that's still a staff member who has to go to a college or look online for graphics people. They then have to look at their portfolio, decide if their style is a good match, and oversee the whole design process. Even though most of us only pay attention to this site when it's November (or April, or July/August), the staff works year round. 1 million. You only need 1,000 things that cost 1,000 and you've got a million. And I just thought of something. It's not something that Nano does, but it does put things in comparison. The org I was talking about has a bi-monthly magazine. We have a volunteer that does the layout for the mag. She said that if we paid her for her (part time) graphic design work, we'd be paying her $40,000 a year. That's JUST for the mag. That's 0.04 of a million right there. So no, I don't think a million is a huge amount. The nonprofit I'm talking about runs on considerably less than a million. The website isn't that great, and our only paid staff is a part time lobbyist. Everyone else is a volunteer. And we're still struggling a little with money. This place has a great website, 7 full time staff, and loads more features than we do.

Re: Time to Scale Back

ReadySetWrite — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 01:49:19 +0000

Er, that's really long. Sorry, just realized.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 02:25:18 +0000

[quote=ReadySetWrite] Er, that's really long. Sorry, just realized. [/quote] This is a novel writing website. We're used to walls of text. ;) As long as you included the necessary paragraph breaks, you don't need to apologize for long posts here. :)

Re: Time to Scale Back

ReadySetWrite — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 02:55:28 +0000

I think I was overcompensating for not having to write 1667 words today. Because that was 537 words all by itself. Wait... If I wrote 900 words on 750words.com, and 537 here... That means i wrote 1400 today! Whee! Not to mention to forum trolling I did and the innumerable posts there. So I probably did write 1667 words today. Cool! That was completely off topic. Okay. Back to TOPIC now. Uh. See earlier post. The really long one. The longest one in the thread, in fact.

Re: Time to Scale Back

dancingfool — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 04:23:12 +0000

long... but very valid.

Re: Time to Scale Back

ktbarrow — Sat, 03 Dec 2011 17:57:09 +0000

Last year, if you hovered over the bars, you saw what varying amounts did for NaNoWriMo. I'd kinda like to see that re-implemented, though I don't agree that NaNo should scale back. I'll continue to donate what I can when I can and I hope that NaNo will continue to be around for years and years to come. Happy December everyone, and remember, it's only 332 days til NaNoWriMo 2012!

Re: Time to Scale Back

Marie16 — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 00:00:46 +0000

Yes, the hover-over explanations for the bars would go a LONG way (imo) to aleviate some of this "Omg why so much money?!!". I remember the other year's hoverovers, how it includes running the site all year long, paying the employees, etc etc, but *also* includes Camp and Script Frenzy, includes tons of education material for classrooms (in years past there have even been libraries built!!), etc etc. The money is *not* just to run this website, and it's not just about NaNo. It's about the who shebang, and I don't think "cutting back" can realistically be done on a large enough scale to actually make a difference. Unless, yunno, you can find so many well-trained and experienced staff who can afford to work for free. Which isn't realistic, so....

Re: Time to Scale Back

Alcar — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 02:06:04 +0000

The problem (as I see it) is that Nanowrimo can't MAKE enough via donations to cover costs. So to take a hard look at it, one could have to kill scriptfrenzy and the YWP in order to cover nanowrimo proper and the OLL. I doubt either of these suggestions will go over well but from an utterly pragmatic pov I'd be curious as donation amounts from each program ... and then go from that.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 03:49:00 +0000

[quote=Alcar] The problem (as I see it) is that Nanowrimo can't MAKE enough via donations to cover costs. So to take a hard look at it, one could have to kill scriptfrenzy and the YWP in order to cover nanowrimo proper and the OLL. I doubt either of these suggestions will go over well but from an utterly pragmatic pov I'd be curious as donation amounts from each program ... and then go from that. [/quote] We can; we've done it every year we've tried so far. We haven't always made enough to add all the new things we want, but we do generally make enough to cover operating costs. Perhaps we could cut other programs, but the YWP is one of the cornerstones of our non-profit status, and is actually a fairly small part of our budget, so it wouldn't be wise to cut it. It's one of our biggest selling points for fundraising. A bunch of grownups writing a novel isn't as sexy as helping thousands of kids discover the joy of writing and helping schools and teachers worldwide. We've had some exceptional expenses this year, that were necessary infrastructure changes that unfortunately gave our purse a bit of a hit. I don't know what is in the cards if we don't make our budgetary needs... we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Hopefully... we won't have to.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Looking Glaz — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 05:43:19 +0000

Cutting costs would be good, but it's not always possible. If OLL had the way to do that, I trust them to would have done it by now. I'm an enthusiast myself and I can recognise a fellow enthusiast when I see one. :) Sadly, the global economy is a bit not well and doesn't show any signs of getting better soon. Not everyone can spare money for something that, let's be honest, is not that crucial. The company I'm working for is cutting costs and my whole department will be laid off by spring, so somewhere in February or March I will be out of job. :) That means that every spare rouble I have is being put away to help me last while I look for a new job. And even before that my donations were always small because of the currency conversion rates and general salaries' rate differences (say, the minimum donation of $10 is worth about two weeks of bus rides to and from work for me). However, if I could give more I would, simply because I learned a great deal about myself with the help of NaNoWriMo. Before last year I was sure I could never write a novel not just in a month, but at all. And man, was I proved wrong! I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it's been such an overwhelming sense of liberation that it almost suffocated me the first time. Honestly. I could do something big, and I did it! Of course, that doesn't mean that I will take off my last shirt, so to speak, sell it and give the money to OLL. :) There is simply no choice between eating, paying the bills and donating to NaNoWriMo. And if there are only $10 spare dollars that I can give, then I would rather give them to the local animal shelter (no offence to literature, but those are living creatures hurt by humans). But if I can give, if my financial situation allows for me to give, then I will always give. It's just money, after all. Anyone (or almost anyone) can give money. But not everybody can change the world to the better - with or without them. :) I believe that OLL is at least trying. And it's already more than I personally have done in my life.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Marie16 — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 06:29:24 +0000

I try to donate every year that I participate, because really, that's why I donate. I know the whole "good cause" motivates many people as well, but personally I donate because I *do* NaNo. I get something out of my donation. I get NaNo. I haven't been able to donate every year that I participated, but I sure as heck tried. If more people donated, if a larger percentage of the people *using* this site would put forth a few dollars, those bars would probably be a tad bit easier to fill. But I understand that not everyone can, and that's just the way things go. But changing the very structure of what NaNo *is*, just because they end up needing a lot of money in order to pull it off? Tiny perks like those Winner's certificates and icons wouldn't do much at all if "scaled back", and the bigger stuff like YWP and Script Frenzy, well where do you think all these donations come from? Not everyone who donates even does NaNo. I know people who only do SF, but donate. I know people who didn't do any of them this year but donated because of the cause and how wonderful *all* the programs are. When it comes down to it, the stuff that *could* be scaled back, the "frills" on the site, won't really add up to much. And the bigger costing things are things that would change what NaNo/etc is. Best just to donate if at all possible, and be glad that NaNo is here.

Re: Time to Scale Back

Alcar — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 09:46:37 +0000

Ah! I was not sure operating costs had been covered, hence the pragmatic/realistic/downer nature of the post :)

Re: Time to Scale Back

Dragonchilde — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 21:10:15 +0000

[quote=Alcar] Ah! I was not sure operating costs had been covered, hence the pragmatic/realistic/downer nature of the post :) [/quote] If you look at the "Where your donations go" spreadsheet, you can see what our basic operating costs are.