Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Dragonchilde — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:26:11 +1000

Many times, when writing, we come across things like copyrighted song lyrics, influence by a copyrighted work, or how to include a trademark or real person in our novels without ending up with a lawsuit on our doorstep. Is it okay to have Jennifer Aniston walk across the street from your characters? Can your MC shop at Walmart? What about quoting song lyrics in chapter headings? So use this thread for your knotty pop culture questions... someone out there can probably answer, or at least subject you to their opinion on the matter. ;)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gratein — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:15:34 +1000

Okay, so this is the story: I'm writing a book about physics and manipulating them. At the start of every chapter, I give a (usually short) quote from a real world person, for example: Chapter 1. [i“Twinkle, twinkle little star I don't wonder what you are, For by spectroscopic ken I know that you are hydrogen”[/i] D Bush , Science & English Poetry, OUP 1950 Now, from my most recent copyright study, this would be unauthorized multiplication and, thus, illegal (I chose the book citation for exactly this reason). However, that would be Dutch Copyright Law, not international... Can anyone help me out, here?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gratein — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 18:16:48 +1000

AND that should've been "Twinkle, twinkle little star I don't wonder what you are, For by spectroscopic ken I know that you are hydrogen” D Bush , Science & English Poetry, OUP 1950 I should get back in the habit of hitting that 'preview' button...

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Brickie — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:05:45 +1000

Laws vary from country to country, of course, but most have a concept of Fair Use that covers things like what you are doing there - short quotes and the like. Similarly, the right to parody is usually protected under Copyright law. As always with these things, though, if you're looking to publish, you'll get an editor, who will point out any problems before you go to publication anyway...

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SepiaAndDust — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 02:02:17 +1000

Just to try to get a head start this year.... Yes, your MC can see Jennifer Aniston across the street. Yes, your MC can shop at Wal-Mart. Yes, your MC can utterly despise Twilight and say that it was "a piece of crap." Yes, your MC can say, "One ring to rule them all." Yes, your MC can prefer Coke to Pepsi. Yes, your MC can say that you only need three things to make Budweiser--a bottle, a funnel, and a horse. Yes, your MC can opine that Metallica sucks. Yes, your MC can hum whatever the hot song of the week is. Yes, your MC can be reading Harry Potter. No, you cannot quote most modern song lyrics without permission (IIRC, this still includes Happy.Birthday to You.) No, ideas cannot be copyrighted. No, titles cannot be copyrighted, either (though they may be trademarked). All this, of course, is under US law. Other jurisdictions will have their own rules.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

fshk — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 09:09:36 +1000

I'll add a couple of quick and dirty publishing insider tips about fair use. 1. This varies by publishing house, but a lot of the ones I have worked for/with will edit out brand names, so when in doubt, have your characters use tissues and adhesive bandages instead of Kleenex and Band-Aids and that sort of thing, unless it's really crucial to the plot. (The villains driving the getaway car steal a green Volkswagon Bug, for example, which the hero notices as it pulls away.) 2. Fair use, or what you can quote without obtaining permission, varies by medium and rights holder (and jurisdiction). I believe for song lyrics, it's two lines. For poetry, it's 4 lines or a stanza (I don't remember exactly off-hand). For prose, it's a few paragraphs. Media companies crack down on use without permission (pulling fan videos from YouTube for using pop songs, for example), so use some caution there. 3. During NaNo, it doesn't matter; unless you're publishing your novel and gaining money from something using copyrighted material, the rights holders are not going to come after you. If you do go the traditional publishing route, your publisher will advise you. 4. Anything in the public domain is fair game. In the US, pretty much everything published more than 100 years ago is in the public domain and can be reprinted for free without obtaining permission. So feel free to let your characters quote Shakespeare or Jane Austen. The US copyright office has an FAQ page for fair use that you might find helpful. I'm available to answer questions, too. (I've worked in publishing for a decade and once upon a time was the assistant responsible for obtaining permission to reprint copyrighted material in textbooks, so I have some tangible experience with the subject.) You can send me a nanomail and I'll be happy to help.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

MaeYasha — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:33:51 +1000

Okay, so... I'm considering (she's either going to do this or be an artist haha) having my MC, in the end of my novel, go on to star in Wicked. As Elphaba. My question is, will it be legal to *say* she worked in Wicked, or do I just have to hint at it? And perhaps, as I'm considering having the last part be of her singing Defying Gravity, what's fair game there? Is it legal to describe the scene? I know I can't use the actual lyrics, but I'm not quite clear on how far is too far.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Saker Pup — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:29:20 +1000

[quote=Brickie]... a concept of Fair Use that covers things like what you are doing there - short quotes and the like. Similarly, the right to parody is usually protected under Copyright law.[/quote] Mostly right. Even though using something so minimal as that a short quote would likely be considered Fair Use if it came down to a court ruling, publishers are generally opposed to any sort of court action, due to the expense, and will have you get permission to use whatever it is you're quoting if it's still under copyright. (This is why quoting two lines of a song can cost you hundreds of dollars--licensing: everybody gets screwed; even the artists as it's usually the label that sets licensing fees.) And technically, parody is protected under the Fair Use Doctrine, which is a defense against copyright infringement.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Saker Pup — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:38:50 +1000

[quote=fshk]In the US, pretty much everything published more than 100 years ago is in the public domain...[/quote] Careful with that. Anyone quoting older works would do well to remember to check their dates as the current copyright term is the author's lifetime plus 70 years (thanks for that, Disney Corp!).

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

skynite — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 21:00:45 +1000

I'm writing a contemporary fantasy novel and in the second book, they enter a realm composed of people's thoughts, and as such, they could encounter anyone or anything from Samuel Gulliver to a Portal Gun. While it would be really cool to have a nice balance of antique and modern refrences, there's the question of Copyright. I wouldn't want to steal anything from someone else's book, unless it was a personal friend of mine, but what can I use?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

fshk — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 01:02:26 +1000

That's true; at my previous job, we had some trouble getting the rights to some James Joyce stories. It's worth it to verify anything that might be on the border.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SepiaAndDust — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:02:06 +1000

[quote=MaeYasha] Okay, so... I'm considering (she's either going to do this or be an artist haha) having my MC, in the end of my novel, go on to star in Wicked. As Elphaba. My question is, will it be legal to *say* she worked in Wicked, or do I just have to hint at it? [/quote] That would be fine. [quote] And perhaps, as I'm considering having the last part be of her singing Defying Gravity, what's fair game there? Is it legal to describe the scene? I know I can't use the actual lyrics, but I'm not quite clear on how far is too far. [/quote] You can describe the scene, but (as you said) I wouldn't include any actual lyrics, though Fair Use does give you a tiny amount of leeway. Lyrics are something that you should always be very careful with. You could also describe the music, itself, and even call the songs and characters by name.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SepiaAndDust — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:04:14 +1000

[quote=skynite] I'm writing a contemporary fantasy novel and in the second book, they enter a realm composed of people's thoughts, and as such, they could encounter anyone or anything from Samuel Gulliver to a Portal Gun. While it would be really cool to have a nice balance of antique and modern refrences, there's the question of Copyright. I wouldn't want to steal anything from someone else's book, unless it was a personal friend of mine, but what can I use? [/quote] That's a pretty broad question. Do you have anything specific that you're wondering about?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Andy_Obuof — Sat, 15 Oct 2011 02:44:58 +1000

I am thinking about having Charles Manson as an off-page character. He's supposed to be an Avatar of the Devil. Can he sue me for defamation? Funny but serious.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

FamilyFriendlyComedy — Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:20:32 +1000

In my comedy, all the craziness starts when a blogger reminisces bout a football game but instead of tping "the Vikings sacked Dan Marino" he writes "the Vikings sacked San Marino." Now, certainly, as with james Bond, Tom Clancy novels, etc., I can have concerns (or perceived concerns) about San Marino. I'm using a made-up group of historical re-enacters., and pretty quickly downplaying rumors that it was Minnesota Vikings (though making reference to an actual incident in which several Vikings behved very badly on a ship - with pretty much just those words.) However, 3 questions. 1. Can I have Dan Marino in one short scene basically say that he is not a country, and one person couldn't be a Republic anyway, because that is a democracy where you elect representatives? I can easily have someone explain that, but having this bumbling character ask Marino about this would increase the humor? 2. Can I have Jay Leno on the Tonight Show make a joke after an incident in my book wherein a car is arrested for bank robbery in San Marino? He would make note of it, with some added quips about having to run background checks on his collection, including wheelprints? ("Just think, one of my cars might be a notorious felon.") Again, a character could just say he coujld imagine that on the "Tonight Show" or someone with a classic car collection could say that. (I also wonder if it should be ust Mr. Leno, as a public figure, saying that but not on the Tonight Show.) 3. The car is arrested because of confusion with names - an Alexis in America has an alibi, but she owns a Lexus. Since one was seen as the getaway car, and Alexis bought this car in San Marino (but the one in CAlifornia), and the investigator's boss is too stubborn to listen, the investigator is ordered to arrest a Lexus and get it extradicted. I presume it's okay to have the Lexus named? I can just call it a car after that, but there will be a handful of times when various people will have explain the confusion between Alexis and a Lexus.) Of coruse, #3 and probably the others would likely be seen as okay just because it's parody, anyway, without needing to get permission. (I'd like to self-publish on lulu.com as I have my others.) THanks.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Sat, 15 Oct 2011 10:51:23 +1000

So long as you're not saying anything potentially libelous, real people are generally fair game, particularly famous people. Likewise, I'd expect mentioning a Lexus is fair game as well, so long as you're not wrongfully implying that they have a tendancy to blow up or something. Anyway, whenever this thread comes up, I feel the need to point out Jennifer Government. Look it up sometime. I haven't read it, but it apparently involves Nike hiring hitmen and whatnot... to quote the author: People often ask how I get away with using real company names in my fiction. I'm not completely sure; all I know is I keep using real company names and they keep not suing me. But I can think of two possible explanations. One is that my novels are protected free speech, since they're clearly parodies and don't allege actual misdeeds. That is, when I use a real company name, it's just like using a real place name -- and the City of Los Angeles has yet to sue James Elroy. The other explanation is that I always use highly visible, brand-name companies, and suing a comedy writer would be terrible PR.

Webinar on Fair Use

lasalle202 — Wed, 19 Oct 2011 07:27:24 +1000

A free webinar on the "Fair Use" doctrine of US copyright may be of interest to some writers. Nov. 15, at 1pm Eastern Time. http://www.cvent.com/events/understanding-fair-use/event-summary-48ed385796e54cf3a6990e5bddec6953.aspx

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

pegleg kitty — Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:12:42 +1000

You could set up the visuals, the sounds, her body's reaction to nervousness/excitedness - the sight of the crowd, the sounds from the instruments, the sound of her heart beating as she gets ready to sing, the person in the front row who responds to her performance. Watch a handful of videos of singers performing this song to get some ideas.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

pegleg kitty — Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:14:26 +1000

He is a public figure, which gives you greater protection than if you made your neighbor the Avatar of the Devil. The easy way out:: You could go the Dead Guy route and pick Jack the Ripper or someone else of equal gruesomeness.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

pegleg kitty — Fri, 21 Oct 2011 09:18:23 +1000

Dr. Evil had shares in Starbucks, and the company seemed to deal with being part of an evil empire. I'm guessing the powers that be went along. They learned the lesson that M&Ms did when they said, "No dice" to E.T. eating that candy, so he nibbled then-new Reese's Pieces. Reese's Pieces went from totally unknown to a hot candy, just because of product placement.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Willcan — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 07:57:30 +1000

I'm writing an Historical novel this year, taking place in Paris France during the end of the Great Terror. About the same time period of Baroness Orcsy's Scarlet Pimpernel series. If the Scarlet Pimpernel and other characters from her novel make brief appearances in my story am I breaking copyright. The Scarlet Pimpernel was written in 1905 Baroness Orcsy died in the 1940s

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Piyer — Sat, 22 Oct 2011 15:53:25 +1000

The Scarlet Pimpernel is currently available on Project Gutenberg: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/60, so it's presumably in the public domain.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

spthiessen — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:03 +1000

I'm writing a sci-fi novel and was thinking of including tech inspired in universe by Star Trek. Would it be OK to use the names from Star Trek, such as "Transporter" and "Phasers"

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

theoretical_cat — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:32:40 +1000

I think you can (though I'm no lawyer), and "transporter" is a fairly generic term (it transports, therefore it's a transporter). Phaser has been used for other things besides Star Trek, so I suspect it wouldn't be a major problem. For phaser, depending on how you want it to work physically, you could maybe substitute something. Energy beam? Maser or laser, perhaps?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

BJLee — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:29:35 +1000

So are we saying that Weird AL didn't really need the blessings of the artist's songs he would/does parody that it's just covering his bases?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SepiaAndDust — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 03:11:58 +1000

He can legally parody whatever song he chooses, but he won't without the artist's blessing.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

trezelle2 — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:20:47 +1000

I have a question: I, being slightly obsessed with the movie "Labyrinth", named a supernatural character in my novel Jareth. However, my friend said that it would be copyright infringement. I recall that names can't be copyrighted. Can I use the name???

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:58:25 +1000

... My first thought with the name "Jareth" was not that, but this. ;p It would be a really sad world if we could only ever use any name once. We'd wind up having to name our characters "Kz'blyk'truigwrl" before too long.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

trezelle2 — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 08:32:51 +1000

Thanks! That's what I thought, but I'm glad I don't have to worry about it!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jedi_Shepp — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:40:44 +1000

This is how I understand it with my limited legal knowledge. Avoid anything trademarked like the plague. A company must actively defend its trademarks or lose them. There is no limit to the length of time a company can hold a trademark, providing they continue to register it and they are still actively defending it. Something can fall out of trademark and then be trademarked again at a later date (by the same or other parties), providing it is not deemed too generic. "Raisin Bran" is considered too generic, as is "Jazz", and they must be trademarked as "Kellog's Raising Bran" and "Autobot Jazz". This is why something like the current name and likeness of Mickey Mouse is trademarked instead of copyrighted. Also why the original likeness of Mickey Mouse in Steam Boat Mickey is actually now public domain (once again, from what I've heard and understood) because it was created more than 70 years ago. A copyright runs out (if I remember correctly) in the US after 70 years from registration. After that it becomes public domain. Disney fought to have it extended to 75 years, and was turned down, as they already extended all copyright for everyone in the US from 50 years to 70 in the US. The judge deemed that the intention of it running out was to have stuff enter public domain, and continually extending was counter to this intention. In Canada copyrights lasts 50 years AFTER the death of the content's original creator. So technically, Steam Boat Mickey may still be copyrighted to Disney in Canada, but in the US it would be considered public domain. Weird how that works. Also, this means that if the content's creator dies the same day the content was created and registered, then it'll be public domain 20 years sooner in Canada compared to USA. Not 100% sure exactly how the USA and Canadian copyrights work with and against each other as I never looked for the details. Anyways, Copyright has the whole Fair Use thing, but Trademark doesn't. And the holders are told they have to defend their trademarks, so they'll be actively looking for their unauthorized use. Hopefully the way I used the trademarks in this post is deemed understandable and not an infringement. But anyways, that's how I understood it all.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:54:34 +1000

Jedi_Shepp, that's not how trademarks work at all, sorry. Trademark infringement is completely different from copyright infringement. Having fictional characters drinking a Coke isn't infringement -- producing a soft drink with a suspiciously similar name and logo so as to cause confusion is. Trademarks are to protect companies against people who would produce a competing product that could be confused with them. Trademarks are names and logos -- these are things which do not fall under copyright law at all. You can't "copyright" a name. It doesn't work that way. And the thing about "defending" a trademark is to protect it from becoming genericized -- that is, they don't want people using their trade name as a generic noun identifying an entire class of products rather than just their product. e.g., people saying "I googled it." rather than "I looked it up on Google.", or "I xeroxed the paper." rather than "I used a Xerox machine to make a copy of the paper."

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

ControlledChaos — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:09:07 +1000

Can I write a novel that would basically be a sequal to an existing movie from 2005? My MC and supporting characters would be original as would the written material in the novel. Can I portray or reference in the novel characters that were portrayed in the 2005 movie?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JLinVP — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:26:56 +1000

Can one of my characters play for the New York Yankees? I will be writing about the players, who will be fictional, but the stadium and organization will be real.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jedi_Shepp — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 11:54:33 +1000

Ah, that's how it works. I admit my confusion about Trademarks. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Kevfent — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:15:30 +1000

Is it OK if I make a reference to a song by indirectly referencing the lyrics? I was thinking along the lines of something like this: One more shot rang out. "Ready to kiss the other side?" he shouted. Actual song lyrics: "Another shot before we kiss the other side"

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Vyctori — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:48:57 +1000

That sounds more like fanfiction to me.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

mcerickson — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 15:53:31 +1000

So my MC can see Jennifer Aniston across the street, but can my MC go on an adventure with Jennifer Aniston and eventually allow her to take I've the narrative for a bit? I feel like this is the sort of question I should have asked BEFORE I decided what to write about, but better late than never, I guess.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Looking Glaz — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 03:47:27 +1000

Hmm. I was just wondering... say, I have this character who at one point allowed me a glimpse into her family history. And suddenly it turned out that she's a grand daughter of a character from an old (1964) movie. Her grandfather is not a part of the story apart from the fact that she obviously has the same surname. It's quite possible that he won't even be alive at the time of my story. The girl, however, might talk about him here or there (something along the lines of: "My grandpa was in the military. And then my father was in the military. And now my big brother is in the military, too.") Would something like that be a problem? :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

WhitNate — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 04:03:26 +1000

Whatever the official answer is, "The Vikings sacked San Marino" is great! I can imagine this alternate history where Scandinavians overtake the Italian Peninsula. :-D

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

awesomeo — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 08:26:45 +1000

Okay I majored in Business Administration and thus got to take all sorts of lovely business law courses. No one owns the name McDonald's. They own the name McDonald's tied to a fast food chain and displayed in a specific style/font with the golden arches. Trademark deals primarily with visual mediums to keep competitors from trying to pass themselves off as being just like an already popular company. Parody and written fantasy works are generally safer when it comes to using trademarked materials. Under US law parody is protected under the Fair Use clause. Saturday Night Live does not have to give a dime to anyone they make fun of. Wierd Al does not have to either, though he does seek permission firsst and because of that artists work closely with him and promote his work. This is solely Wierd Al's choice however. Fantasy, when clearly depicted as such, is considered free speech as well. You can have your characters attacked by a plant demon inside a Wal-mart, no problem. Looking at you the Dresden Files. If they ever make a film out of it, however, you had better contact Wal-mart first to get permission to make a mock-up of one of their stores. Usually movies based on books will switch to a more generic name just so they do not have to pay to use logos and other trademarked materials. If you are just dropping names here and there because your story is set in our world, then go ahead. As mentioned before, your publisher will have final say anyway. Go ahead and write about how Unicef is actually run by a cabal of demons from Hell. If by comparison, you were writing a medical thriller and dropped the name of a real chemical company in regards to releasing poisoned vaccines or something, that is another matter. It is hardly the same as going on the news and claiming they did so, but a publisher would still be wary to earn the ire of an acutal company with a team of highly paid lawyers. Regardless of whether your are in the right or wrong, business law matters are not like criminal cases where sufficient evidence must be presented BEFORE a trial takes place. A company can drop a cease-and-desist order or full lawsuit on you for any reason at any time. It may very well be laughed out of court, but do you have the money for court fees and lost revenue (from not being able to release the printed copies of your books until the matter is closed). Ultimately it comes down to a matter of how the material in question is depicted. If it clear that what is said about say Wal-mart or Sam's Club is merely one character's opinion, then you are safer than if the third-person narrator comes out and says they sell babies for satanic rituals. Though you will probably get a better deal on the babies at Sam's. As for copyrighted material, you can compare say a supernatural being to having the powerset of Superman as a pop culture reference. You just cannot right new Superman stories and sell them for your profit. Also remember that some material is still heavily disputed concerning copyright. In the United Kingdom Peter Pan was given an unlimited copyright as the rights were gifted to an orphanage or children's hospital or something. They wanted that insitution to retain royalties. Here in the US Peter Pan is already public domain. I can write a Peter Pan novel if I want, but good luck getting it published in the UK. The ownership of the characters of Conan and Zorro is heavily disuputed. If you want to write stories in their style, use the style not the actual characters. I do not care for fan fiction anyway. Take what you enjoyed about those stories and incorporate it into your own creation.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

faithundefined — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:21:43 +1000

Okay, so my story opens up with my main female singing "Hallelujah." So if I only quote two lines of the song I am okay?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 15:02:58 +1000

faithundefined - Check when it was written. Traditional songs are often rather old, although many of them are deceptively new. If you're thinking of the Hallelujah Chorus, that was part of "Messiah", by Handel, and composed in 1741, and hence not under copyright. If you're refering to something else (it's hard to tell from just the name), then look up that.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

ControlledChaos — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 01:34:03 +1000

Yes, fanfiction definitely, according to the definitions I found. Thank you for your response, Vyctori!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

writeonnow — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 23:19:37 +1000

Do you want to give away advertisements? I don't. Just about any movie you go to has product placement. If the MC drives a new car, for instance, you see a lot of him/her in that new car. We don't even notice product placement anymore, but it replaces advertisements.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Heather Hart — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 03:28:49 +1000

If my story included a Smurfs meets Stargate spoof, what kind of issues might I run into? I'm thinking the Smurfs travel through the Stargate? But wasn't sure how much trouble that would get me in. It would clearly state in the novel that it was a spoof of the two, as it is a story within a story... Can anyone help me?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

alison.paige — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:56:25 +1000

this is a very helpful thread :] and my question is can my character attend the Academy Awards?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Chloe Nichols — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 17:17:07 +1000

Can one of my minor characters quote a lyric verbatim from The Beatles' song, "I Want To Hold Your Hand"?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

queen.bee — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:48:49 +1000

Okay, sorry if this has been answered like, a million times already, but I am mildly confused about the "within 2 lines" rule for a song. There's a line from a song that I absolutely love, and I want to use it in my story. I want the love interest to say it to her at the end. Now, it's not a long line, and I don't want to have him singing it to her or anything, he's just going to say it naturally. And I want to change it a little bit. I just don't know how many lines it is. I think it's 3, but I don't know how they break it up. The quote is: "I know I said I didn't watch your plane leave. Honestly, I should admit I lied. I was standing at the edge of the runway, wishing I could fly." I don't want to word it exactly like that, but it is going to be pretty close. "Remember when I told you that I didn't watch your plane leave? Well, that's not exactly true. I watched as the wheels started to roll, and then I was chasing it to the edge of the runway, wishing to God that I could fly." Now, that's probably not what I'll use, it might even be more similar to the original than that, but it's got all the same basic elements. I just wanted to give a quick example. Is that plagiarism? I don't really remember how those things work, it's been SO long since I've even had to think about that kind of thing. BUT, all that being said, I'm not trying to publish my book or anything, it's just for fun. So does it even really matter?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SammyWrae — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 08:14:01 +1000

The fact that most of my stories are fanfiction means that I am not going to be publishing them for profit any time soon. Quite aside from the legal considerations, I would consider it a tad unethical and wrong. But even within those stories, my general rule of thumb is that if you are going to use something that is someone else's work, you should credit them for it. So even if you only quote a line from a song.... "The babe in his cradle is closing his eyes" Harry sang to himself as he walked towards The Great Hall "The blossom embraces the bee" ....then you should credit the creator with that. (I tend to go for the original creator, rather than the copyright holder, but that's just me). And if you crib a long speech from someone else..... "I AM THE DAUGHTER OF THE FIFTH HOUSE! HOLDER OF THE SACRED CHALICE OF RIXX! HEIR TO THE... oh - wait, that's supposed to be a secret" Luna shrugged "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!" ..... then you credit them as well. My theory is that as long as I stick to this - quoting all the sources that aren't original - then I don't tend to worry about how much I might borrow. Because otherwise - if I can only use one song lyric per story or quote one show/movie/etc per story - I would more or less have to give up writing completely. Then again, as I said, I am never going to publish any stories, so the full legal ramifications of copyright are something I've never bothered worrying about.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

TommehBell — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 10:12:21 +1000

Actually the product isn't the trademark. That's intellectual property. Which is a totally different ball game. The trademark would be the Disney Mickey ears. And a product becoming the generic name for something has nothing to do with trademark infringement. And no company would sue someone for trademark infringement for saying "I grabbed a Coke" So someone saying "I goggled it" would not be a trademark violation. People say band-aids all the time when Band Aid is actually a brand name and you could have the WalMArt generic no name brand, but you call it a Band Aid. Now if you took the stylized name and color combo of the google logo and put another company name to it then you would be infringing on the Google trademark, but saying "I goggled Peter Pan" has nothing to do with trademark infringement.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

groomgirl82 — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 12:25:45 +1000

A few questions. I'm writing a novel that deals heavily with the Hindi film industry. Jennifer Aniston can walk across the street, but can a real Bollywood producer be a fairly significant character? Can I mention his production studio? And can I mention movie titles if I don't quote from them? Thanks for the advice!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diannelamerc — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:32:10 +1000

Check out the Organization for Transformative Works for a fascinating take on the legality of fanfiction (http://transformativeworks.org/faq/legal). [Disclaimer: I'm a member and a fanfic writer myself. (I polished, finished, and web-published my 2006 fanfic NaNo in my livejournal and on the major fic site for that fandom.)] Essentially OTW maintains that non-commercial fanfic, fanvids, and fanart are completely legal and protected under Fair Use. (Of course, to legally *make money* off of fanfic, you pretty much have to wait until it's out of copyright: like Sherlock Holmes ["The Beekeeper's Apprentice", http://is.gd/ftkrGD], Jane Eyre ["Wide Sargasso Sea", http://is.gd/Gk0FDz], and Jane Austin ["Pride and Prejudice and Zombies", http://is.gd/ZGA2oX]. ;-))))

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Lydianguy — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:44:45 +1000

...or anything by Bram Stoker or H.P Lovecraft ;)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diannelamerc — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:54:06 +1000

Sure. They can even mention seeing people there. The only real problem you're likely to run into is if you imply something negative about a public figure or event. Ultimately, if you professionally publish your book, the publishing house will have final word over everything in your novel. (If you don't comply with their demanded changes, they don't publish you.) But that's a worry for another time. There are ways to work around a unusually nervous publisher. ;-) But your character can attend the awards, give an interview to Entertainment Tonight on the red carpet, smile at Steven Spielberg sitting across the aisle, and nervously ask Brad Pitt for an autograph at the after-party. If, however, he/she discovers the true corrupt heart of the Academy of Motion Pictures, is blackmailed for a good on-camera quote by the ET reporter, is kicked in the shins by Spielberg, or reports Brad getting ragingly drunk and manhandling him/her at the party... well, your publisher is probably going to want you to substitute fake names. :-)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diannelamerc — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:02:45 +1000

Yup. (Especially true if the source is referenced. -- He smiled and looked into the distance. "'Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away...'." -- "Oh, I love The Beatles!" she said. But that's not necessary.)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diannelamerc — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:03:08 +1000

Whoops! Wrong song. But same concept. ;)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diannelamerc — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 21:14:17 +1000

With real people, ultimately it all comes down to "Are they likely to sue?" Or, more specifically, "Does the publishing house I'm working with worry that someone is likely to sue?" There's nothing inherently wrong in using a real person as a character. But if that person feels that you have portrayed them in an (unjustly) bad light, they can sue for libel on the basis that people might believe what you've written was a true representation of them and thus defames their character. This is why it's best to keep real people to the sidelines and to innocuous, unobjectionable sorts of actions: Aniston walking down the street, Obama attending a fundraiser and shaking hands, Stephen Hawking as the advertised keynote speaker at a physics conference. The more famous the person, the more leeway you tend to have. But if you have an eye towards publishing this professionally, it's generally a bad idea to make a real person a significant character. (Or anything more than scenery, really.)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

mals86 — Tue, 01 Nov 2011 23:45:57 +1000

I've been reading through this thread, and I see that it is permissible to quote up to two lines of song lyrics. Your usage would fit into those guidelines.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SammyWrae — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 01:33:48 +1000

"In the United Kingdom Peter Pan was given an unlimited copyright as the rights were gifted to an orphanage or children's hospital or something." As someone who benefited from this gift of copyright, I am actually quite happy about it :) (It's The Hospital For Sick Children, on Great Ormand Street, if you are curious - I was a patient there for most of my early life, so spent a lot of the time surrounded by Peter, Tink and Wendy!).

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

faithundefined — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 06:24:24 +1000

I'll looke it up It's not he Hallelujah Chorus. It's the one that starts off like "I heard there was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord". That one.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

groomgirl82 — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 09:56:15 +1000

Thanks for the advice! I'll change that character to a fake person. He mostly only says "cut," "action," etc, but better safe than sorry. What about the movie titles? I was planning on mentioning a few in passing, but I'll take them out if it's likely to be an issue.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Ptahnyx — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:46:42 +1000

that's from the Leonard Cohen song

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

alison.paige — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 11:59:41 +1000

oh ok, thank you! :]

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Notkieran — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:01:19 +1000

I believe someone in my area printed a special version of that card with David Bowie's picture but was not allowed to use it.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 00:52:44 +1000

Ok, so I have lyrics from modern songs all the way through my novel, like their meant to be singing along to the radio, playing on a cd player, a theme from a TV that's on the TV at that moment etc... I have to get copyright to use each song? And at one point my MFC is eating Rice Crispies which is branded, same as one of the characters drinking a can of Fosters... that has to go? I've totally screwed this up, haven't I :(

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

anomic_autumnnn — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:12:28 +1000

This is all so very confusing to me. Let me know if I get my facts wrong: I can quote up to 2 lines of a song. Unless I specifically say which song. I'm not planning on using anything that would qualify under copy right infringement, but I'm just interested in it; I've never thought of it before. I wasn't really worried about any of the stuff mentioned in this thread because I don't plan on publishing my novel and I'm only posting it when I validate it for my word count. If I do use something, say more than 2 lines of a song or a quote/definition straight from a quote/movie, can i get in trouble?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JackLyDarling — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:53:21 +1000

So I have a character who is autistic, and as a result she has delayed echolalia. This is where she repeats quotes from books and films almost without thinking about it. Would this be ok, or not?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

openended — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 03:46:54 +1000

Wholly unrelated to the thread topic, but the idea of the UK copyright holders to Peter Pan being a children's hospital makes me smile an absurd amount. Sometimes humanity rocks.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

snappyssidekick — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:04:03 +1000

In my last Nano Wrimo, one of my characters sings that same song, but I don't list all the lyrics, just a few key phrases. It actually came up a lot because it was my MC's favorite song, and he was miffed that it was being over-used in pop culture. (Nope. The irony is not lost on me.)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

snappyssidekick — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 04:06:05 +1000

Yes! I've heard him say as much! Parody is protected.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jennie Lyne Hiott — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 05:48:37 +1000

Here's something I just wanted to share. I wrote a story where my MC's met through Twitter.I wanted to call the book Twitter Me. When I decided to turn it into a novel, I emailed Twitter to ask permission to mention the name of their site. Here's the response I recieved from Julian West. It's fine to reference the Twitter service in your book. However, as per our guidelines at www.bit.ly/twittermarks, it's not ok to name your book Twitter X, as this may be confusing for some people. We give some guidance at the above resource on how our marks can be used, so please have a look at that site. So, there goes the name but atleast I know its okay to mention the site. However in further inquiries I also learned that you can not just make up a user name. You have to make a twitter account for each of the characters you plan to have talking through Twitter or that could violate any one who may in real life have the characters user name you thought you created. Something to think about. Sounds like a hassle right?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

kopycat — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 08:07:06 +1000

A hassle, perhaps, but still a moral responsibility if you are publishing. Example= phone number 867-5309 How would you like being saddled with that beauty for a home number?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Reality's Wench — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:42:29 +1000

[quote=kopycat] A hassle, perhaps, but still a moral responsibility if you are publishing. Example= phone number 867-5309 How would you like being saddled with that beauty for a home number? [/quote] If I had that, I could sell it on Ebay. :D I remember an article recently about that... But talk about never having privacy. "You will want to hire me as your on call person because you and your customer base will never be able to forget my phone number."

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 11:25:08 +1000

I'm sorry to ask again but nobody answered me before... but what if your self publishing, what if your bascially just giving your novel out for free... so your not making any money, does the copyright stuff still apply?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JoAnn Doud — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 04:37:11 +1000

I've noticed that Stephen King always gets his song lyrics slightly wrong. I guess that's for copyright reasons and not because he has misunderstood the lyrics to major hits all these years. :p

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

szaleniec1000 — Sat, 05 Nov 2011 07:41:50 +1000

[quote=Jennie Lyne Hiott]So, there goes the name but atleast I know its okay to mention the site. However in further inquiries I also learned that you can not just make up a user name. You have to make a twitter account for each of the characters you plan to have talking through Twitter or that could violate any one who may in real life have the characters user name you thought you created. Something to think about. Sounds like a hassle right?[/quote] There are some writers who run with this and use those accounts to actually tweet in character.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

jimerthy — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:53:05 +1000

I have a scene where the protag skips back into her village and finds it demolished. So I talk about Luke, Uncle Owen, and Aunt Beru. And how she wishes she could be a Jedi. Then she gets back up and decides to go do what she can do in the real world. It's totally a pop culture geek reference that's really an important statement about her character. OTOH...I don't want to infringe on Lucas' rights in any way shape or form.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Chloe Nichols — Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:51:17 +1000

Thanks very much! I completely forgot I asked this question. Much appreciated. :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

acover4422 — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 04:08:38 +1000

I would say if you're not going to publish it, do whatever you like! Think of how many millions of fanfictions there are that use copyrighted characters to form a whole new story. It's just a bit of fun, and personally, if I had published a book and knew that people were using my characters to form their own fun interpretations of it, I'd be flattered. Should you ever decide to publish your book, I'd have a back-up phrase in mind.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Serendipitist — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 06:19:27 +1000

I read a book where an autistic character quoted from other books loads of times. I don't know if the books quoted were in the public domain or not, but I think as long as you don't try to pass off the lines as your own it's fine. Think about it, how many times have you heard movies use lines like "Say hello to my little friend" or "The Force is strong with this one"?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Lori Antoinette — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:21:22 +1000

This makes me think of The Clique series by Lisi Harrison. I think a good 30% of the words in her novels are brand names. I mean, as long as you're not saying anything bad about the brand name or the person or whatever, I don't see why it's bad. Free advertising for them, right? But then again, what do I know? I'd listen to the woman who works for the publishing house if I were you :P

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Mizuki Ayu — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 20:00:42 +1000

My story is based on real events. In the story the MC falls in love with a book character, from a real book, about real events. (So the book is about a real life criminal but the story was fictionalized to be entertaining.) Since the book adn the character are so important, can I use the exact book in my story?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

poplopo — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 02:52:11 +1000

If I remember correctly, I remember reading something about how he's always having trouble getting permission from the copyright owners to put song lyrics in his books. I believe he does it (and pays them for it) with every book. I think he's even had to change lyrics when he couldn't get permissions for some of them. And if he does get these lyrics wrong, perhaps he's just trying to twist them a bit to fit the context of his book.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

poplopo — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 02:54:25 +1000

That is the current copyright term, but does that apply as a grandfather rule to older works? For example, if something went into the public domain in 1980 after its copyright expired, but then the law changed to make copyright last longer, would it still be in the public domain, or would it return to copyrighted status?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

WASampson — Tue, 08 Nov 2011 11:05:42 +1000

I don't know... I remember when the LOTR movies came out, and the McDonalds toys were all labeled with a trademark. eg: "Sam (tm)" (Not even "Samwise Gamgee" btw... just "Sam")

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 00:08:49 +1000

Does an ebook count as being published or just self publishing a paperback book?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JoAnn Doud — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:01:35 +1000

What about recipes? Can I copy a recipe from the net and use it in my novel? If word for word is a no-no, then if I adapt the recipe a bit (which I often do in my real-life cooking) will that be ok?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Mizuki Ayu — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:18:21 +1000

I guess as long as you don't advertise it as 'Bobby Flay's crappy dish' or something. I don't think a recipe can be copyrighted. Especially if you have the character say like, "Okay, now 2 cups of sugar" instead of just copy-pasting it in. That'd look bad anyway to have a recipe just pasted into a novel.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JoAnn Doud — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:27:26 +1000

Thanks for the input, Mizuki. :) It's a recipe used worldwide, but there are many variations. And it's sooooo good! <3

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

FrozenWolfz — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 02:23:13 +1000

I know this sounds weird, but could I use the United Nations in my story? Basically they've been taken over from behind by an alien race (corny, I know, but it sounds better if you don't think about it). Would I need to come up with a different group, or could I use them for my novel?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Lyssa08 — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 03:35:22 +1000

This is in regards to my nano from last year, but I just reread it and wanted to check. So it would be okay for my characters to get attacked by a dragon in a destroyed McDonald's (I mean, in the scene I have the arches outside twisted and rather messed up in a description)? Or for them to raid an (equally destroyed) WalMart for supplies? Since it's set in the real world those are common places to find in even small towns and I wanted to make sure it's alright to use them. Still debating on an idea for this Nano, if I ever finish my essays for school and get started (three more left!), but i'll be sure to come by if I have more questions.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Morteana — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:15:25 +1000

I feel like mine may be a little bit complicated, too close to stealing an idea, so let me know what you all think. My NaNo-verse is set in a "Dream World"... literally, the place-you-go-when-you-are-asleep. Within that Dream World, I have chosen four similar, already created universes. Wait, no, this isn't fanfiction... these people are merely some of the great "Painters" of the Universe who have come before. Namely, I am focusing on the following: - J.M Barrie's "Peter Pan" - Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass". - Frank L. Baum's "Oz" series. - C.S. Lewis' "The Chronicles of Narnia". I am 98% positive without a Google Search that both "Alice" and "Peter" are public domain, and that "Oz" becomes public domain (depending on the book) within the next three years. I know that Narnia has about 50 years to go, and therefore my references to the influence that the Penvensie children had on the Dream World is limited exclusively to saying that they expanded the world, introduced the "tweens" as an additional method of travel, and that their world is exclusive to those whom they let in (therefore, no traveling to Narnia)... but Timothy does arrive in the Dream World chasing a cat through a closet.... While my MCs operate in this Dream World, which has influences of Neverland (the Lost Boys' treehouses), Wonderland (giant chess board, ruins of the Queen's castle, and a very strange forest... mention of the Jabberwocky and the Vorpal Sword), and Oz (the Wicked Witch's castle, flying monkeys included)... they never encounter any actual characters from those stories (they are long gone) and they do NOT follow the same adventures. The only things there are, are an influence of some items and some locations. How close to the line am I treading, here, supposing I'd like to edit this severely and try to publish it eventually? Thank you, kind wonderful people. :-)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Morteana — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:19:58 +1000

I had no idea about that, but it is very cool. Also, for anyone who has seen the movie Hook, suddenly all the references to that hospital in the beginning of the movie make sense. :-)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Morteana — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:22:48 +1000

If I recall correctly, if you MUST you a phone number in anything, use a 555 number. :-) That's unused just for that purpose... or at least it was at some point. :-)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Morteana — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:24:30 +1000

I think you would still need to be careful, depending on whether or not your are intending on mass distribution or not. If you're saying something negative or assuming, you can still be sued for slander, ya know? But LEGALLY I don't think they'd have anything on you.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Morteana — Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:26:32 +1000

In the novel "Like Water for Chocolate" by Laura Esquivel, each section is headed by a recipe relevant to the following chapter. :-) Recipes are free game, because really, who do you credit for most of them?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

ADuvall — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:19:45 +1000

I been wondering a few things in regards to this myself. Firstly, the major city in my book is taken from a 1919 Lovecraft short story. I am crediting that fact in my reference notes. As I do plan on marking anything and anything that is not originally mine. The city has the same name, but is entirely different from how it was mentioned or described in 'The White Ship', so would that be alright? Secondly, one of my characters is to speak in nothing but Orson Welles quotes. Again I will be making a note of this in my reference notes. It's my own tip of the the hat to him, and I do want to know if its alright. Thats all I am really worried about at this point in time.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Soupnazi — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:44:56 +1000

It sounds like the city is only named the same, in which case it would be okay; for instance, I could have a character named Eragon in a story I write, and since one can't copyright names, it would be acceptable. I dunno about the quotes, though.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

umitheelf — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:25:06 +1000

When visiting a petting zoo, one of my characters is talking about a setting of pigs named Wilbur and Charlotte and says "Like the book except Charlotte's a pig in this case" I think it's pretty benign, but would love to hear other's opinions.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Soupnazi — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 01:47:14 +1000

It's fine, as it's just a reference.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Cbrentner — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:12:00 +1000

It's not just in his books if I remember right either. He wanted to use a particular song in the mini-series of "The Stand" at the opening and couldn't get the permission to do it and so had to use another one instead. Or so I remember from the commentary included in the DVD.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Cbrentner — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:16:52 +1000

One thing that I've often read is that it's also a good idea to make sure what is a trademark name and what is a generic term. For example there is a difference between getting a xerox copy and a photocopy. Xerox is a brand name of photocopier while photocopy is more general. Likewise Rollerblade is a brand name while inline skate is more general if I remember correctly. Though all Xerox's are photocopies not all photocopies are xerox's.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Matt B — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:52:50 +1000

Halfway through the month (and my novel) and NOW I think about this! The action in the first part of my novel revolves around the infamous Max Headroom break-in of the broadcast signal of two TV stations in Chicago back in 1987. In my story, one of the characters is a big fan of the TV show, buys a Max Headroom mask, and basically pulls off the break-in himself. Max Headroom is not a character in the story, but my characters use his name quite a bit in the early part of the book, discussing what happened. From the start, I knew that I could not use the name "Max Headroom" in the title, and from what I see in this forum, I'm hoping that I'm OK to use the name in describing the mask and the pirate video that was made. Today, I started thinking about the final product. I won last year's NaNoWriMo, and thanks to CreateSpace, my 2010 novel is actually listed on Amazon (I think I sold three copies there, all to family members), and I would like to do the same with this one when done. Would I have a problem if my characters used 'Max Headroom' in conversation? Should I hedge my bets and put a copyright notice for the name in the front of the book? Thanks in advance for the advice!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Matt B — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:55:53 +1000

To be clear, when I asked about copyright notice, I meant I would credit the current copyright holder. Not myself.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Darkfeather21 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 06:26:09 +1000

Sorry if this was already asked,but is it alright if I include an actual band in my story, or should I make up my own? I want to have Van Canto make an apperance in a concert at the school, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SomthingSimple — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:17:40 +1000

Does anyone know if I can refernce YouTube in my novel? My main character just says some things like, "Well I listen to most YouTube muscians." and "Watching stupid video's on YouTube."

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Darkfeather21 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:54:11 +1000

Nevermind, I just took that whole scene out of the book.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Darkfeather21 — Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:28:04 +1000

I can see no reason why not.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

kharizzmatik — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 05:24:42 +1000

I just want to reiterate what others have said, although there seems to be some contradictory advice floating around. Song lyrics do NOT fall under fair use bc they're so short in content. You CAN NOT use two lines safely. If you use even one line of a song lyric and you publish the novel, you MUST get permission or you're violating the song writer/publisher's copyright. I have a book in process of being published and I've had to remove the three song lyrics from the text because the fees for licensing usage averaged out to about $27 per word. For two lines of lyrics, I was quoted around $500. If you won't be publishing your work, maybe you can risk it, but if there's any chance of any profiting, you're taking a big risk.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SomthingSimple — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:26:14 +1000

How about if I just talk about a song? The line I want to write is: I start to hum You Don't Know Me by Ben Folds. Would that be alright?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SomthingSimple — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:28:52 +1000

Also if I talk about bands? I just have my MC talk about the band shirts she has. It features Pomplamoose and Ben Folds Five.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

AfterMath — Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:35:25 +1000

Dammit. I was feeling smug about people saying earlier that quoting two lines of a song is "okay". This is how I did mine: “We’re caught in a trap...” Elvis crooned. “Oooh!” Kathy smiled. “I love this song.” “I know you do.” Jack grinned. Sliding back under the sheets. Peeling back the towel Kathy still had on. “I can’t walk out...because I love you too much baby...” the record crackled warmly. ======= So.. This won't work then?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

jimerthy — Sat, 19 Nov 2011 23:55:32 +1000

Whether this would be kosher/legal or not, I realized that my approach was more than a little stupid. Instead I made up an author who churns out tons of sci fi crap that always hits the bestseller list, no matter how awful it is. Change a couple of minor details here, and attribute it to him instead. The bonus is that I can have my characters do a frame story thing and read anything random I write that's totally unrelated, attribute it to him, and it helps tie my book together. This is awesome!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

jimerthy — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 01:29:06 +1000

You might need some sort of legal disclaimer up front (like "YouTube is a trademark of xyz"), but that would really be something for the publisher's legal department to worry about. Probably not a big deal. OTOH, you could swap it for something slightly different (maybe uTube?) and everyone would know what you meant, but you'd pretty much avoid the issue completely.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

KylieKitty — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:30:42 +1000

Ok, this is officially starting to hurt my brain. I've made quite a few references to music and film in my story, so I'm hoping someone can tell me if these are ok; My male character is a musician and is mentioned as singing "(Sitting on the) Dock of the Bay" and an unnamed Disney song. He later says he loves Disney films and Alan Menken's music. My other character mentions AC/DC as a favourite band. And they go to a Halloween party with a film theme - so Indiana Jones, Jack Sparrow and Chewbacca are all mentioned, along with The Phantom of the Opera. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (I'm not planning on publishing straight away, obviously, but it would be good to get an idea for future reference what I can and can't safely mention)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

TulStig — Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:53:29 +1000

MY character is planning to sing a Lady Gaga song in a competition. Can I use both her name and the name of the song without fear of copyright?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

acsander — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 03:53:03 +1000

Actually, fun factoid! A product becoming generic has *everything* to do with trademark law. There is such a thing called "genericide" in trademark law, and companies like Kleenex, Band-Aid, and Xerox (or the companies that own those trademarks) are in danger of losing their trademarks because the words are becoming so common as to be generic. It's technically "Kleenex-brand facial tissue," for example, written on the package. Lots of words we use today used to be brand names. I think "Zipper" is one--used to be a brand, now it's just a generic word, and the company lost the right to prevent others from using the word "zipper" on their products because the term had become genericized. Marketing people love it when their brand names become verbs, like "google." But Google's lawyer absolutely hate that because maybe in fifty years or so Google's trademark won't be worth very much. See: xerox. There's isn't any actual infringement when people say terms like that in conversation or even print it in a book, and no one's going to try to sue over it, but companies are concerned about protecting their trademarks and many of them emphasize the fact that their name is a brand, not a synonym for the product. I think you're thinking of the concept of name-dropping brand names into literature, which I'm more fuzzy on. I think it's allowed. You can write about your characters going to Wal-Mart and buying a Dora the Explorer DVD as a gag gift for a college student who's flunking Spanish; that's not going to be trademark infringement because it's in a book and no one consumer is going to confuse you for Walmart Corp. or whoever owns the trademark for Dora the Explorer. Caveat, this is just what a law professor told me, and we were in Internet Law class and just covering the very basics of trademark and copyright. So there are probably lots of nuances I missed.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 12:14:33 +1000

Can I mention "National Novel Writing Month" and "Wikipedia" in my "Acknowledgements" page?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:15:55 +1000

Yes, the acknowledgement page is your way of saying thank you to all who have helped you.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:21:04 +1000

With regards to a song title, absolutely. Under copyright law names, song titles, short phrases and colours are not covered by copyright. So you can mention any title you like, just don't mention any of th elyrics as they are covered by the copyright. Her name may not be copyrighted but check to see if it's trademarked as there may be a need to gain permission in order to use the name. A name may not fall under copyright but it can be branded. So a name like J-Lo would need to have permission to use because it's her brand name. If not, use away.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 04:30:23 +1000

Names and titles are not copyright by law which means that you are permitted to use them with in your work. So using the song "Dock of the Bay" is fine as is naming Alan Menken, Chewbacca, AC/DC and The Phantom of the Opera. The rest, you may have a problem because they have been trademarked. Disney can be funny on how their name is used. In this instance I think you should be ok because you are merely mentioning them in passing. However, take no chances. Indiana Jones and Jack Sparrow are trademarked and you will need to have permission to use them in anything.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:00:44 +1000

Titles of songs are not copyrighted so yes, you are allowed to reference them.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:01:46 +1000

No. the contents of the song are under copyright and you would need to get permission to use the song lyrics.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 05:32:34 +1000

There seems to be a lot of confusion with regards to copyrights, trademarks the right of use. I'm no lawyer but the basic information is readily available on the internet. Here's what I have discovered through my research along with links to the revelant bodies. Copyright. Anything that is written by you is under copyright to you unless you sell those rights to someone else. This does not include names and titles. You may reference them in passing ( ie: I went to Burger King to get a Whopper meal) in your work with very little risk of come back. However, if you mention them in a bad light (I went to Burger King to get a Whopper meal and nearly chocked on the stale bread) you leave yourself open to a defamation of character law suit. This is a very touchy subject and it depends very much on how the reference has been made and if the laywer is in a good mood. Catch a lawyer in a bad mood and you may have more problems than you really want. The use of lyrics is not covered under the Fair use clause and you will need to get permission to use them. This is costly. I have known a few people who have had to pay up to £1500 just to be able to use 7 lines of a song. http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law Trademark This is a name or logo that has been registered to that company. IE Apple, Microsoft, Dyson, Hoover, etc. Use of a trademark is a much more dangerous avenue to go down as these are brand names and highly protected. Any use of the brand, even if it's unintentional, may lead to a infringement lawsuit and that can get costly. http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-other.htm Fair Dealing (as taken form the UK Copyright website above) http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p27_work_of_others Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are: •Private and research study purposes. •Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes. •Criticism and news reporting. •Incidental inclusion. •Copies and lending by librarians. •Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes. •Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as “time shifting”. •Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program. •Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society. (Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from PRS for Music.) And the biggest thing I will say now is never, never, never assume it's your publishers problem. It's not, it's yours. Make sure you can do it before it gets to that stage. Also, if you plan to publish your and make some money, assume that any mention of a copyright or trademark is an infrigement and get legal advice. Ignorance is not a defence. As far as I am concerned, safety overrides sorrow. IE: Don't do it in the first place then you won't get burned. I hope that helps.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:37:12 +1000

It does. I have a few questions though. What's the difference between a name/title and a trademark? Is "Batarang" a trademark, and I'd get sued for using it? My character whips out a legally distinct (definitely not a "Batarang") bladed boomerang. I should probably just take that part out. It's easier. I already removed "Gatorade bottle". What about dead people and public domain stuff? My book features not only Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Watson and Moriarty but also Bram Stoker, who was once a real person. (In my book he's still alive). But he's portrayed in a good light (as a vampire slayer). Is that OK, would you say? (Also they go to see The Phantom of the Opera play but that's really, really old so it should be fine, right?)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:38:28 +1000

Actually, to add to that: I know one of the early movies of Phantom is in the public domain, but I'm not sure about the play(s). Hmm.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:16:01 +1000

A name/title is exactly that, a name or title of something. A name of a song, or a movie title. A trademark is a registered mark, name or logo that is specific and distinctive to a company. EG: Burger King, Nike, Apple, Microsoft. You see the logo or hear the name and you know exactly who the company is and what their product is. This is something a company pays for. A Batarang is not trademarked as such but still can't be used due trademarking and copyright. How this works is the concept and logo of Batman is trademarked and all associations with Batman, so the Batmobile, the Batcave, they are covered by the Trademark and copyright. I'd take it out and use something generic like a ninja star. It depends on how long a person has been dead because even though they are dead their estate and family may sue. Someone like Bram Stoker is ok to use. Copyright automatically passes to a next of kin whilst a trademark would need to have a change of ownership. Dracula, Sherlock Holmes and all the characters are within the public domain and may be used as wished. With regards to the Phantom of the Opera there is a slight issue as the story itself is in the public domain and may be used as wished but, and this is a big but, Andrew Lloyd Webber owns the rights to his version of the Phantom of the Opera. So any mention of the POTO must be classified as the original (circa 1800's) or Lloyd Webbers. However, as has been previously stated a generic mention of something is ok. So even if you say you went to London to watch POTO, you will be ok because it's a generic mention. Any feedback on what you thought of the play may leave you open to being sued. hope that helped.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:26:56 +1000

You will need to get permission for Peter Pan as the copyright was granted to the Great Ormond Street Hospital. As long as they exist all royalties must be paid to them. The Wizard of Oz is public domain. Narnia will fall into the public domain in 2033. (copyright expires 70 years after the authors death unless the copyright has been extended or renewed, eg: Disney and Mickey Mouse). Alice is in the Public Domain. You will be ok with mentioning anything from 3 of the stories but any descernable reference to Peter Pan must have permission.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:32:37 +1000

Public Domain is anything that falls into the public access arena which basically means it has fallen out of copyright or trademark and therefore free to use as wished. Copyright lasts a creators lifetime plus 70 (or 50 years depending on country) after their death. There are, however, some copyrights that are granted an unending status or extension such as Peter Pan and Mickey Mouse and these can basically be renewed. If a copyright elapses there is a period within which someone else can buy that copyright. Always do a check on anything you are unsure of. It's pretty easy to find out if something is within the public domain.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Michael S. Repton — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:41:54 +1000

[quote=Jacks_reg]It depends on how long a person has been dead because even though they are dead their estate and family may sue. Someone like Bram Stoker is ok to use.[/quote] Not true. There is no libel for dead people.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:30:20 +1000

Thanks. I'll change it slightly in regards to the Batarang and POTO. They go to the play and there is a line after they exit that says "It was good" - I'll either delete that or reference that it's the "original?" Would that work? Anyway, thanks for all the info.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:36:20 +1000

OK, I just Wikipedia'd it. The original novel was published in 1911. Under "Adaptations" it doesn't list any early plays, though... it just says the most famous ones are the 1925 movie and the 1986 musical (by Webber.) Was there ever a play before Webber's? Maybe I should say it's an amateur production of the original novel.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:58:04 +1000

Yes, I think there were a few before Webber's. I know of one that was held at the place where the POTO was set (I can't remember the name) for an anniversary. But of course, none are as famous as webber's.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jacks_reg — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 12:01:52 +1000

Leave the reference to the play in. It's a positive quote and I'd say you'd be fine because you are stating that your characters attended an actual event. Also, positive statements about work are generally ignored. However, just to be sure google Webber and see of you can find out how he responds to stuff like this.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

loxosceles — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:41:01 +1000

pre-1923, everything is fair game. From then until 1963(?) copyright had to be registered, so some stuff from this period has fallen out of copyright (any DVD sold for $1 is in this category, for example). After that, pretty much everythin is under a "life plus..." rule. I'm not a lawyer, there may be exceptions, but these are rules of thumb for US copyright law.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

loxosceles — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:45:24 +1000

Gutenberg is careful about researching rights, so if it's on there you're safe (under US law, at least)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

KylieKitty — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 21:43:29 +1000

Awesome, thanks for the help! Might just change those parts once I've finished writing.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

sewerrat — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 00:54:06 +1000

That sounds like what Cornelia Funke did for her Inkheart series, so I'm guessing as long as you ask if it's alright (assuming you want to publish) like she did, it should be fine.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Sat, 26 Nov 2011 10:41:05 +1000

I actually wasn't referring to Webber's version in the novel. That's why I was wondering if there were more before it. I was just vaguely referring to "a" version. I didn't even think of it as a musical when I wrote it, I was just thinking there had to be a play of it at some point.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

SkyeWriter.Imaginarium — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:43 +1000

I have added many references to my story about, say, I Am Legend, Gerard Way, and McDonalds (the last being a little slanderous, thus obviously needing a touch-up), and I was wondering if that's within legal bounds, or if I need to keep my references a little more hush hush? I know that generally if you read a book, most of the time it says that the characters/places/etc are like, changed and whatnot and don't portray actual people, etc, but is it within legal bounds to directly reference a person/movie/international food enterprise within a story, with due credit?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Gibush — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 12:06:24 +1000

Sounds OK to me, just based on what Jacks_reg has told me. He mentioned Burger King, so perhaps McDonald's is OK. Like he said, you could always look to see if whatever company produced I Am Legend is usually OK with name drops, and same with Gerard Way (check what his legal stance is, if any). I don't know, beyond that.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

DreamCreator — Fri, 02 Dec 2011 09:12:10 +1000

I posted this as a forum topic, but this would probably be the best place for it. I'm hoping to self-publish my Nutcracker retelling before Christmas. However, I'm a little concerned: Obviously, E. T. A. Hoffman's story "The Nutcracker and the Mouse King" no longer has a legal copyright, as it was published in 1816, but I've heard of some groups whom you need to ask permission from nonetheless before writing a story based on an old piece of literature, although perhaps the person who told me this was incorrect. Do I need to contact anyone regarding my Nutcracker adaption prior to self-publishing it? Thank you in advance.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Twelve Red Roses — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:50:45 +1000

In my 2012 novel, I want it to have a little bit of a video game feel to it, mainly a Zelda feel. I would love to quote video games, but I don't know if I could do it or not, and if I can, how many times I can. Could someone help me figure this out? Thanks. :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

crazygirl9310 — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 12:40:35 +1000

Okay, so I want my MMC to work at Hot Topic, I don't really describe the store, other than as dim and I call it by name. I also have a campus wide Nerf gun war and mention an iHome on my MMC's roommate's beside table. And then I have this to describe an Amarok: [quote]Something had jumped from the trees and landed right in front of them, growling. It was a wolf, much bigger than Rick, looking more like the werewolves in the popular teen vampire romance series that made Declan want to puke every time he saw a preview for it. Although he didn’t deny that the werewolf was cute.[/quote] I can describe it another way, but it will still call to mind the werewolves in Twilight because that's what I visualize the Amarok looks like.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 16:25:14 +1000

Twilight did not invent werewolves... nor did it invent large wolves, nor did it invent wolf-men, nor anything else except sparkly vampires, which I'm fairly certain nobody did before (nor wanted to). No, it will not bloody call to mind Twilight. :P This description tells me, in fact, absolutely nothing about what the thing looks like. Wargs? Worgs? Direwolves? Hispo form? Crinos form? Holo? :) Be more descriptive -- don't assume that people have read/seen the same movies you have, or automatically assume that that's always going to be the first thing everyone brings to mind. It's one thing to say that a character is working at a specific store or using a brand name product, but don't use pop culture as a shortcut for useful description.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 16:27:50 +1000

Note: The things I listed? All from various fictional settings. If you don't recognize them, then you know about how I feel about someone just describing something as "looking like the werewolves from Twilight" ;)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

crazygirl9310 — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:21:56 +1000

That's in the middle of an action scene, the quicker I can make the exact image appear in your head, the better for the action because they don't have time to take it in and describe it, it's not a short cut, it's what Declan's mind jumps to first as far as comparison goes. & the only one I recognized in that list was wargs. Anyway, in the description itself I never said Twilight, I said "that vampire teen romance series" I'm assuming most of my readers watch television and have, therefor, at least seen the previews for Twilight even if they don't remember the name, especially with the addition of how terrrible the movie looked from the preview. BTW, doesn't answer the question if it's okay to use those things. Which I realize I did forget to add that I was asking that, not saying I got away with using those.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:50:02 +1000

My point was, it's failing to get any image in my head at all. I don't watch TV, I haven't seen any such previews, and 10 years from now, 20, 30, 50, it's even less likely that anyone has seen or heard of that. Even saying something like "giant wolf" would be more descriptive here. I can't even tell from your description if you mean a giant wolf, a wolf-man, a bizarre hybrid thing, or what. And I did say it's perfectly okay to mention things like that, just that it's utterly useless in this context. ;p If you're trying for a "quick, snappy description" for an action scene, it utterly falls flat at that, too. It's a clunky phrase that takes any tension or impact out of the scene. Something like "a giant wolf, like some sort of monster" would get the point across a lot better (if that's even the point you're trying to make, I still haven't figured this out). Or "a monstrous, wolf-like man" if that's what you're trying to say... (I'm sure I'm not going to be the only person ever in history that has NO FREAKING CLUE what you're talking about when you say something like that.)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

PeverellSister — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 11:16:59 +1000

Portal Gun <3 Just had to throw that out there...

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

pammersw — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:50:46 +1000

[quote=PeverellSister] Portal Gun <3 Just had to throw that out there... [/quote] Yeah, I noticed to. Had to take a half hour break from writing over Thanksgiving weekend to buy my son Portal2 while it was on sale. :D

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

pammersw — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:51:01 +1000

*too*!!!!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Rae_Sweete — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:10:01 +1000

Two simple questions and I apologize in advance if one or the other has been asked already.... I read that I can't use the lyrics from songs. Fine. But, can I write the name of the song my characters are sining? For instance if they go to a karaoke bar. And about quotes at the beginning of a chapter, do I need written permission from the person who quoted? Or can I just do it in quotes and add the persons name? Thanks :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:31:15 +1000

Titles are specifically exempt from copyright.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Rae_Sweete — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 12:30:12 +1000

Thanks, And what about quoting people?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

9393usak — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:48:21 +1000

Is there some sort of hard-and-fast rule against quoting modern books? I also want to quote the Aeneid, but I would obviously have to quote from a modern version- what copyright problems would arise from that?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

RobertLent — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:02:50 +1000

In Ghostbusters, the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man was originally supposed to have been the Pillsbury Doughboy. That would have been hilarious. But Pillsbury thought it would tarnish their brand. I think if it had been made today, they would have been fine with it, companies have been more willing to be part of the joke, figuring the audience knows the difference. It would be cool if they could digitally replace the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man with the Pillsbury Doughboy. It wouldn't be difficult to replace the creature, and the dubbing would be easy.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

RobertLent — Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:41:54 +1000

There are plenty of translations which are no longer copyrighted. Use whichever you like the best. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/228 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/227 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/18466 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22456 http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29358

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

flopart — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:12:46 +1000

I think Leonard Cohen wouldn't mind. :P

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Miki-chan — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:44:47 +1000

Is it okay for me to use parts from Lorem Ipsum, or is that copyrighted as well?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Dragonchilde — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:35:21 +1000

[quote=Miki-chan] Is it okay for me to use parts from Lorem Ipsum, or is that copyrighted as well? [/quote] Given that it originates in the 1500s... I think you're safe. ;) It's been used by typesetters for centuries. Now, if someone were to translate it independently, the translation might be copyrighted, but lorem ipsum text is used web-wide. Google it sometime. :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

skai413 — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 06:42:03 +1000

Ebooks are published, posting to your website is published, provided in any way that the general public can read it is published, which is why I won't post short works on my website until I've tried various magazines (my favorite ones happen to accept "first rights only," meaning they won't buy something that's already been published). I have Writer's Market to thank for telling me that one. Now, the interesting part I'd read (and I can't for the life of me remember where; I thought it was bookmarked, but can't find it....) is that posted to your website but password protected so that only a select audience can read it is not "published."

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

articzombie — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 11:55:34 +1000

My MMC's girlfriend calls him affectionate nicknames. Being named Charlie, she calls him Charmander or some verison of it on occasion. Would I be allowed to do this?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

lasalle202 — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 13:54:03 +1000

"I didnt think he would mind" is not going to stand up in court when you are sued.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

JoeDaBro — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 12:14:33 +1000

I would say it's fine as long as you mention her name somewhere in that area. Even if she saw it, why would she get mad for free advertising in a published material?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jedi-Master-Spock — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:44:48 +1000

FUnny, I have a drug dealer who, unfortunately, shares that same name. It makes for some entertaining diologue.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Jedi-Master-Spock — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 08:51:32 +1000

I was sent here form a thread I made, and I imagine it will be ever so very much helpful. My story takes place in a post invasion 2017 Earth, and it doesn't take itself completly seriously, so yes I poke fun. Such as my first chapter takes place entirely inside a run down Wal Mart (I thought that'd be fine, but is it? I hope so). Seoncdly, I have two characters argue the merits of two real Canadian actresses over the other (Specifically, which one is better looking). I also mention Rick Mercers head floating by in a dream sequence, and Back to the Future. That ok? Last, but not least, I have a character who is overly obsessed with music. He quotes bits of songs here and there (Nothing like a whole lyric, so I think that's ok) and mentions the title of the song and the artist when ever he gets odd looks. I'm guessing that counts as credit?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 03:47:34 +1000

I'm still confused over the lyric copyright and trademark thing. So if I'm saying my character is eating Rice Crispies but not saying Kellogs Rice Crispies... is that still the trademark thing? Or if I say someone checked their Blackburry is that trademarked? Lyrics are through out the book, as a sort of soundtrack, also characters sing songs, like a cover verson or along to a CD... So does the copyright still apply if your giving away your novel as a download for free, and not making any money at all? And what about if you have a paperback copy for yourself and a couple of people from say lulu.com/createspace.com but it's private access, your still not making any money from it, but it's in printed form?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:40:30 +1000

"Copyright" refers to the actual content of a work (exact words, images, sounds, whatever, depending on the type of work it is). "Trademark" refers to a brand name or logo. They're completely different things governed by totally different rules. And no, whether it makes money or not doesn't actually matter. It's less likely for someone to notice and care if you're not making money, but you're still likely to receive a cease & desist if someone does. If you haven't, it's likely that just nobody noticed, not that they're okay with it. It boils down to: Don't copy other people's content without their permission, but brand names are generally okay.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 00:57:03 +1000

Cool thank you. I'm guessing even you put a copyright disclaimer type thing at the beginning, saying no copyright infringement was etc... if someone chose to they could still tell you to take the lyrics out. You could say a certain song was playing on the radio for example, and not break the copyright thing, by just saying the title of the song right?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:20:01 +1000

Titles are specifically exempt from copyright. You can mention a title or a band the same way you can mention Wal-Mart etc. It's just that you can't put in the content of their songs. It's the difference between mentioning a character likes Harry Potter, and putting in an entire chapter lifted wholesale from it.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

adora1983 — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:29:56 +1000

Thanks :)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

diddums — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:36:26 +1000

Hello all! Hopefully I can find some assistance here. I'm hoping to publish a novel (should I ever finish) and in it, my MC has a horse named "Gus". The original owners called him Gus because a little girl said he "reminded her of the fat mouse from 'Cinderella'." From what I understand, that is legal as it's only a mention of a name and a title. But here's where it gets tricky. My MC keeps the name 'Gus' out of sentimental value, because she received a little button from her best friend that says "What if the universe was really run by some crazy old guy named Gus?" For the record, I found the button myself in a gift shop several years ago, but it can also be found in an online store which I found after some searching. Because it's a pretty important reason for her to keep his name, I'd love to know if I'd be able to use it. The thing is, I can't find any credit for the button or quote, so I can't contact whoever "owns" it to ask if I can use it. Any information on where to go from here would be incredibly helpful. As well, MC lives outside of Calgary, Alberta, and she's all excited about that because it means she lives close to Spruce Meadows. Since Spruce Meadows isn't a store or anything, am I okay to mention it? As well, can I mention certain events from it, such as the Masters Tournament, the CN International, BMO Cup, etc.? Since CN and BMO are company names, I think in general they'd be all right, but as they're affiliated with Spruce Meadows events in this case, I just wanted to be sure. Thanks!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Leonara Declamara — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:05:41 +1000

Quotes are often public domain; that particular quote may be something trademarked, so I'd search there, since it's on a button. If there's no trademark, go ahead and include it, and let your publisher worry about attribution. ;) Names aren't copyrightable... you can use Gus all you like, and even refer to Cinderella as the source. Referring to the existence of real places couldn't infringe on anything. If it were possible, New York, New York could sue every horror movie producer known to man for licensing rights. ;)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Leonara Declamara — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:06:46 +1000

[quote=adora1983] Cool thank you. I'm guessing even you put a copyright disclaimer type thing at the beginning, saying no copyright infringement was etc... if someone chose to they could still tell you to take the lyrics out. You could say a certain song was playing on the radio for example, and not break the copyright thing, by just saying the title of the song right? [/quote] Copyright disclaimers are about as legally sound as my toe jam. They don't provide any protection of any kind, and are a waste of space. All they do is prove that you knew you were infringing on someone else's IP.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Sophsoph97 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 07:43:36 +1000

Is it legal to make a title of a novel the title of a song? I was considering using the title "Enchanted" for a non-nano novel I'm writing. Would it be illegal to quote a verse of Taylor Swift's song "Enchanted" in it?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 08:27:00 +1000

Titles are not subject to copyright. You can't copyright a title. Plenty of things have the same title. Especially when you're talking about one-word titles. You should not, however, quote song lyrics without permission.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Sophsoph97 — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:54:05 +1000

Ok. Thanks for helping!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Writergal102 — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:06:01 +1000

My novel isnt even written yet, but I know where I wannn take it. If it is good, i hope to publish it someday. But I am very afraid of the copyrights. Basically, my MC can travel into books , paintings, and movies. Here is what I want to throw her into: 1. Finding Nemo 2. Up (Pixar) 3. Fullmetal Alchemist 4. Tangled 5. Toy Story 3 6. Romeo & Juliet I also plan on throwing her into more pop culture references. If it ever gets published, I will most definetely give credit to the original authors/producers. Do you think that the companies will be ok with this? I really hope so. It's not like I''m stealing their creations; I'm elaborating them, and the original producers WILL recieve credit.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Writergal102 — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 05:07:15 +1000

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 08:30:51 +1000

Sending a character actually _into_ other worlds like that would almost certainly be considered fanfiction. However, be aware that Romeo & Juliet is not under copyright anyway, and Tangled is based on Rapunzel, which isn't under copyright either if you used the original source material. You can do whatever you like with the older, public domain works.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Lady_Shiva — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 11:11:48 +1000

I started writing a novel about six years ago. The prologue makes three references (one I've only just realised this evening). The first reference: I name a character from Kingdom Hearts (Sora) along with a line he says at the very start of the game. I know Sora is fine, but would the line be ok? My character quotes it to herself, saying that that line almost completely sums up how she feels. The second reference: Sylvia Plath. My character indirectly quotes her, but if anyone has read her stuff, they'd know it was Plath, especially because my character names her. Would that be ok? My character is saying the phrase "Crack like an eggshell" which was an idea I lifted from a Sylvia Plath poem (I can't remember which one, off hand). The third reference: Alice in Wonderland... the scene where she's falling for what seems like forever. That happens to my character. I know the story is opensource now, or whatever..but I'm just throwing this reference in, simply because I can't believe it's taken me six years to see the similarities XD But yeah, my query is with the first two references... would they be all right? The thing is, with the first one, it could possibly be seen as a negative connection, as my character has just tried to poison herself, before quoting the game.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:33:41 +1000

I'd be utterly baffled if you tried to attribute a common phrase like "crack like an eggshell" to anyone. And I'm also utterly baffled at the very idea that the concept of falling for what seems like forever would be from any specific place, too. (I can think of quite a number of things that include long falls... :P)

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

TryingTo Write — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:03:24 +1000

I have used Joss Whedon's named in my story, and referred to him as a great scholar (history was basically lost, and what they could salvage, were some old TV programs and cripts, and they now believe him to have been a historian. I have referenced two characters (Spike and Angel) though I made one a girl (both are boy characters) and the TV show names "Buffy" and "Serenity". Should I ask permission, and if so, to whom do I ask?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

keolah — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 01:46:31 +1000

1) Real people are not subject to copyright. 2) Titles are not subject to copyright. 3) Just mentioning the name of a character in the context of a fictional work does not make your story fanfic.

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

TryingTo Write — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:01:42 +1000

ha ha first thing that came into my head when you said teenage vampire show was "Vampire Diaries" lol And I was trying to recall, did they have werewolves on that show, yes, I THINK they did!! lol I don't think anyone will get twilight, I sure didn't, and yes, weirdo that I might be, I have watched all the movies and read the books. Judge if you must, but I'm not ashamed.. much!! lol

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

TryingTo Write — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:06:48 +1000

oh, you rock my world!!! Although, It would be cool to DO a fanfic for Joss Whedon, I would TOTALLY suck at it!! In MHO, why mess with perfection!! haha. All kidding aside, thank you for the help. I tried to google this stuff, but there's so much info out there, and I'm so new to this, that it was very overwhelming and confusing. Thanks for simplifying! Keep on rocking on!!

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

articzombie — Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:24:44 +1000

While definitely not for my Nanowrimo novel but simply a little fun story I'm writing, one of those that will probably not go past Microsoft Words pages, I was wondering how far I could go in this situation: the story follows a girl who ends up becoming 'friends' with a boy who is in various online fandoms. He actively makes references to them, such as referring to himself as say a brony for the My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic crowd or having one-sided discussions with her regarding how characters function (Still regarding mlp saying things like "maybe rainbow dash acts the way she does because of so and so).In the middle of the story, which causes most of the plot to happen, he's having the girl help create a cosplay of sorts for a fandom he's in. Am I allowed to directly state the series, reference them, and have characters dress up as these fictional characters or would this definitely be something I just wouldn't be allowed to do?

Re: Trademarks, Copyrights, and Pop Culture References in your Novel

Dragonchilde — Mon, 30 Apr 2012 07:59:59 +1000

Well, if you're just doing it for your personal use, you can do anything you like. :) As far as I know, referring to existing things is generally okay.