Am I plagiarizing J.K. Rowling? http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678 Dragonchilde It can be difficult to come up with the Most Original Idea ever. Everything we read and see influences our writing, and sometimes, it can be difficult to tell the difference between plagiarism and inspiration. Orson Scott Card, sci fi author, has a very revealing article called <a href="http://www.hatrack.com/writingclass/lessons/1999-12-20.shtml" rel="nofollow">On Plagiarism, Borrowing, Resemblance, and Influence</a>. It's okay to be influenced, and ideas are not copyrightable. Use this thread to discuss whether or not your idea, characters, or stories fall in the realm of "plagiarism" or just plain influence. Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:30:40 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1273 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1273 thecandiedmango I'll get started! I first got the idea for this year's NaNo when I fell in LOVE with a character created by my favorite webcomic author (Tessa Stone, if you must know). In the beginning my male character, Dr. O, was a complete ripoff of Miss Stone's Macsen Lander; they're both brilliant, well-dressed scientist-[removed] living in futuristic-fantasy worlds, both have dark hair and light eyes and the same stocky body structure, both are unhappily divorced---I even copied her character's glasses and freckles. At that point the plagiarism was obvious and my character had absolutely no depth. He just wasn't interesting. Thankfully I left the story to stew a while (IN MY BRAIN) and, over the summer, Dr. O has developed a set of personality traits and background bits that have set him apart from his initial inspiration. He's less 'intentional [removed]' and more 'intensely shy and awkward', unique motives and influences pushing his life forward, different reasons for his past personal choices, and he lives in a slightly Wild West-flavored world, to name a few differences. I think that, at this point, I've crawled out of the pits of blatant thievery and onto the plains of inspiration and influence. Any thoughts from other authors? How far do you think a 'stolen' character or concept has to evolve before it's no longer plagiarism? Is all of this dependent on how an author handles a character or idea? Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:03:34 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_12077 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_12077 Asuka Neko I think this is an interesting one for me this year because most of my characters came from a fanfiction at one point. A Zelda fanfiction, at that. Most of them were OCs in the fanfiction, but one was actually Sheik. This was back when I was bad at video games and had no internet access, and so I thought Sheik was a guy (turned out, "he" was a girl). Somehow, a blonde ninja with a mask over the bottom of his face became a black-haired goth named Sharr with a nasty scar on his face. I'm not really sure how any of that happened, because it all occured between sixth and seventh grade, which was a long time ago. But yes, you'd never know who he used to be if you look at him now. In my opinion, a character has to evolve pretty far to no longer be plagiarized, so much so that if someone read about them, they would never think "oh, he/she is just like so-and-so." I think as far as Sharr goes, he's pretty unrecognizable. ...I would say more, but I honestly can't think of anything. Yup. Make sure people can't easily compare your characters to someone else's. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:08:08 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_18971 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_18971 Meilos I get like this every time I get an idea in my head. My story this year is about a boy who's an heir to the literal "Animal Kingdom"; that, for reasons gone into in the story, there is a human prince that will inherit the Kingdom, and what that means should the King go missing. Which he does. So he is brought to the animals' world to find the king, or failing that, take the throne. I've never heard of a story like that, and yet, Where the Wild Things Are and the Lion King pop into my head and it makes me sadface. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 02:42:49 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_36332 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_36332 shifterous But you can't think like that! Your idea sounds amazing! Roll with it; I've little doubt that the more you flesh it out, the more original it will become, both in actuality and in the way you look at it as its creator. Your subconscious has its ways of nudging your story in the direction you want it to go. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 03:02:54 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_36650 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_36650 keolah Meilos - I don't see the least bit of similarity beyond that it involves animals and royalty... Thu, 13 Oct 2011 04:25:39 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_37789 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_37789 khailibowen I saw it as very loosely Lion King based, so I would totally go with it. Like another mentioned, animals, royalty, ya that's about it. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:00:41 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38289 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38289 Anjirika My Regency Romance is influenced by Jane Eyre, Pride &amp; Prejudice, Sense &amp; Sensibility, Mansfield Park... etc. But the story is all mine. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:14:34 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38480 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38480 nccharge I have a story-world that'd probably just slot into the world of Warhammer 40K with the military type structure, central government that isn't as powerful as it thinks etc. But I think I've also drawn stuff from a tabletop game called Traveller as well as stuff from sci-fi tv shows. I think some of the stuff that'd make my novel Sci-fi just gets recycled and repackaged depending on the setting so I don't think I have that much to worry about ... but I still worry that someone will read my novel and go "hey, isn't this from Warhammer 40k?" Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:48:24 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_42017 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_42017 likelolwhat The majority of my characters started out in a Digimon fanfiction. Then I realized how full of fail it was and scrapped it, but the characters wouldn't let me go. Unfortunately for me, names tend to stick in my head, so the five who got transferred over have very similar names (every single one has the same starting letter as their fan counterpart) in their current incarnation. Other than that, they're quite different. I changed their personalities, backgrounds, part in the plot... Even how they looked in my head. I'm hoping I can keep them that way, though. I guess I'll have to see. ^^ Fri, 14 Oct 2011 03:35:18 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_51708 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_51708 nanthimus My two main characters are heavily inspired by characters from the webcomic Homestuck! Fri, 14 Oct 2011 04:15:20 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_52259 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_52259 monokrome My stories in line for this ears NaNo and the following years are influenced by alot of factors especially games like Persona and Ar Tonelico. It's hard to be original with one of the three though. Fri, 14 Oct 2011 14:47:06 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_56207 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_56207 skwalas I can't really speak to the whole fanfic thing, with the obvious plagiarism implications even though it's obviously a sincere effort at honoring/celebrating something that really rocked your world, but for those who think they have something Truly Orgininal (tm), try doing a google search of the keywords to your idea. You may be surprised to find that the idea exists and has existed in some form all along. I tried this a couple days ago on my NaNo idea (keywords being "dinosaur civilization", thinking I had something fairly original, and was dismayed to find not only that the general idea has been kicked around for decades (which I kinda expected), but the vast majority of specific plot points that I thought were genuinely creative were showing up all over the place, in forum archives, blogs, out-of-print book excerpts.... As far as characters, if you can base a character more or less entirely on an living breathing person (changed just enough to avoid libel suits), then why wouldn't the same leeway be allowed for basing your character on another (fictional) character? I mean, face it: after several thousand years of story-telling, it's going to be REAALLLY hard to be truly original about anything. Just don't repeat me word for word on that, alright? Sat, 15 Oct 2011 06:00:29 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66188 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66188 keolah skwalas - There's no need to repeat you word for word. It was already said in the Old Testament: There is nothing new under the sun. Sat, 15 Oct 2011 06:24:34 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66382 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66382 Mae 13 I'm a little bit worried about originality this year. It's my first time ever writing fantasy, after a lifetime of adorning the genre. I'm worried that my overall plot has a very strong Golden Compass (His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman) influence. I have a very rough outline of my plot on my page, and if anyone (preferably someone who has read at least The Golden Compass) would like to tell me if it sounds too strongly influenced, that would be very much appreciated.. I will love you forever and give you cookies. Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:09:21 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66779 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_66779 deadkanon My plot is essentially about an angel and a demon trying to stop the apocalypse. This really doesn't sound good when I mention that one of my favorite novels is Good Omens (which, funnily enough, I didn't read until very recently and a long way after I'd come up with my concept.) Recently, I heard someone mention that Good Omens is very similar to the show Supernatural (which I started watching recently as well, lol), and felt my blood boil. There really aren't any similarities between the two other than that they involve supernatural beings and the apocalypse. Still, it's making me paranoid. Sun, 16 Oct 2011 03:26:31 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_76742 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_76742 keolah Something I've noticed. When non-writers mention that two things are "similar", they often mean something _positive_ by it. (Especially when the only similarity the things have is their genre.) Sun, 16 Oct 2011 03:34:40 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_76818 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_76818 minstrelwarlock That sounds a lot like Neko no Ongaeshi, but it's definitely still an original idea. I really loved that story, and if they're anything alike beyond "oh hey a secret animal kingdom" I would definitely read yours. Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:08:16 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_77823 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_77823 Cosmic_lightning Feel free to PM me if you wish, I'd look at your outline AND I've read Pullman :) Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:28:39 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_78034 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_78034 Cosmic_lightning should have read your post more closely. Outline is on your page already. DUH. Hmm. 2 things: The pollution caused by the new source of energy that's ripping the worlds apart... that definitely sounds very familiar. You're missing the whole religious aspect, which might help. Of course, if that energy source is researched/developed by/etc a powerful cabal of any type... then I'd say yeah, that's a very strong influence. HOWEVER. If it was just this, I maybe would say it's influenced, not derivative. Influence is fine. But combined with a child protagonist and child-stealers, it just looks a little too familiar... especially if it's set in a steam-punk-y kind of setting (which I assume it is, with the nuclear power mixed with pirates). Note, all of these things separately just sound like you've been influenced. It's when you mix them all together that it gets hairy. Trust me, I've been here. (Am there, actually... can't get Holly Lisle's World Gates series out of my head!) It's really hard to let go of that "perfect" idea. But I think you're selling yourself short if you go TOO derivative... it doesn't give your muse a chance to play with your own neat things. I would do 4 things if I were you: Read this essay: http://hollylisle.com/how-to-legally-and-ethically-steal-ideas/ Figure out what things you really love and what you would love to write. Put the idea you have now aside for a moment, and just mind map out things that are really cool that interest you, that make you get shivers. Things like (my examples) trees and half-shadows and mirrors in dark bathrooms. Take out one (or more) of the Pullman inspired things and replace it with something that really sings to you. Maybe it's not the child protagonist you liked, maybe it's the fact that she's an underdog. Or maybe you like the idea of Gobblers just because they put the protag in danger, not because they are child-stealers. Etc, etc. Just write. In the end, if you decide you like the idea as it is, then whatever. Write it. So long as you have fun, right? My instinct is that if you're asking this question, your muse knows that this project isn't as original as YOU want it to be already. If so, change stuff and keep the muse happy. If not, who cares? Nano is about writing to prove that we can, to practice, and to have fun. So if this idea makes you happy, then go for it. :) Hope that helps. Like my post above, feel free to PM if you want! Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:50:23 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_78223 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_78223 bri.christine I'm trying to figure out if my story could be considered plagiarization. I'm pretty sure it could be. It's a story based on Jimmy Buffett songs. And as a giant Jimmy Buffett fan, I would never want to get in trouble with him for copyright infringement. So I think I'll just write it and get the word count but then keep it to myself. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:33:03 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_87314 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_87314 DesireeM81 I wrote my second book just after reading about every Dystopian under the sun. Now that I am editing I see a lot of influences from Matched that I just wrote without ever thinking of the book itself. While I am going back and changing those very minor details in the story, I never felt like I was plagiarizing. I think it's because those of us who write tend to read a lot and then we write down ideas that just flow the knowledge we already have including those books we read when we were ten or last week. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 03:26:57 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_89610 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_89610 keolah I think more people in this thread need to read the page linked to in the original post. :) Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:37:32 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_90526 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_90526 Mae 13 PMing you. :) Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:30:24 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_103809 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_103809 MagicMarkerOfDoom Hmm, I have to say since being introduced to Michael Moorcock's darling stories about the character Elric of Melnibone my Nanowrimo story is heavily influenced by his style of writing and tone. This is partly because I fell in love with the Elric stories. The characters, plots, imagery, tone , it's like I finally found my long lost love in book form. (My boyfriend is also practically a living form of Elric, both physically, and mentally - he even talks like him! Which probably exacerbates my affection for the character. My boyfriend is the one who introduced me to the stories, in fact.) That said, I also read the first Earthsea novel by Ursula Le Guin and found that quite enjoyable as well. It's good to read good fiction. :) Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:16:05 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_123096 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_123096 von gelmini I think you should also link or recommend the Organization for Transformative Works (http://transformativeworks.org/) WRT plagiarism and fair use. Orson Scott Card has spoken out against fan fiction, and so is not an unbiased source. Quoting the OTW website's legal section: "There is a distinction between plagiarism (the unacknowledged use of someone else's words claimed as one's own), fanfiction (the acknowledged or obvious borrowing of story elements to tell a new story in the fanfiction writer's words), and quotation (the acknowledged or obvious use of small excerpts of another's work). By "obvious" we mean that even if a fan writer didn't put a disclaimer on her story, readers know that she did not invent Wonder Woman or Voldemort, or the phrase "Use the Force, Luke." Plagiarism is deceitful and prevents the original author from receiving credit for her own original work. Fanfiction and quotation are important fair uses which acknowledge the original author and her work. The OTW does not support plagiarism; we do support fanfiction and quotation." So, according to the OTW, writing a novel about Harry Potter isn't plagiarism. It's just unpublishable, as JK owns the copyright. But it's perfectly acceptible to write it and distribute it on places like LJ or on websites like Archive of Our Own or Fanfiction.net, as long as you acknowledge the copyright holder and make no money off your work. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 21:49:04 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_129945 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_129945 RunningWolf Is it ok for me to have Balrogs in my fantasy? I don't really think so, but I want to see what others think before I throw the idea away. I just love the epicness of Balrogs, but if I have to, I can do my best to make up some epic monsters (and I will even if I can have Balrogs too, the more the scarier!). Thu, 20 Oct 2011 05:36:25 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_136890 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_136890 Sunnyblob Anyone else ever find them self 'subconciously' plagiarising other people? According to one of my friends, a character of mine is just like the personified version of France from the Hetalia anime. They're kind of similar, I guess. They're both slightly perverted, wine-drinking, French-speaking romantics with the typical shoulder length blonde hair and blue eyes and with little bird companions. I didn't even realise until she pointed it out. I'm still working on changing my guy before next month. :/ Oh, but I have purposefully ripped off characters before! One time I played far too much Legend of Zelda, so I wanted a sort of girly princess character (as I had none). She ended up being just like Zelda, and now she's somehow turned into an ass kicking pyromaniac bandit lady who isn't even of any royalty. I still lack nice or girly females, though... There is a line between inspiration and copying. It can just be hard knowing where to cross sometimes! Thu, 20 Oct 2011 06:10:38 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_137215 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_137215 Wolfme Believe me or not. About 15 or so years ago I was told my idea of werewolves vs vampires would never work :D Could I do the Underworld people for psychically nicking my idea :D Thu, 20 Oct 2011 13:26:48 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_139693 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_139693 keolah Only if I can get reparations for Star Trek: Voyager stealing the fanfic I wrote when I was a kid involving a starship named Voyager, a captain named Kathryn, and being stuck in the Delta Quadrant. (I might be more annoyed if anyone but me had ever seen the thing... heh. But you can imagine I was going *blink blink* when Voyager came out.) Thu, 20 Oct 2011 17:31:47 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_142068 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_142068 von gelmini you can describe them down to a T, using your own words and not Tolkien's at all, and call them something different and they're yours. Thu, 20 Oct 2011 18:36:01 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_142856 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_142856 RunningWolf Ok, thanks, I will probably just rename them and change them up a bit. Good luck when NaNo starts! Fri, 21 Oct 2011 00:26:11 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_147968 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_147968 keolah Yeah, D&amp;D had balors, which were pretty much exactly the same thing with a slightly different name. Fri, 21 Oct 2011 02:09:38 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_149468 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_149468 bishieaya Has anyone ever read 'The Name of the Wind'? I worry quite a bit that my story is too much like it. Such as my character and Kvothe. Both are knowledge obsessed, both attend a university, both can cast aside their morals when required (though my char does so much more frequently and with glee). Also I want my story to have a very everyday, life like feel to it, something which 'Name of the Wind' also achieves! Admittadly there are also many differences - my main character has an evil streak a mile wide, the university works very differently, and the layout of my story will revolve around several POV's rather than focusing soley upon the main character. What is particuarly annoying is that I had most of this planned before I read 'Name of the Wind'! Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:55:12 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_156752 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_156752 lasalle202 [quote]Yeah, D&amp;D had balors, which were pretty much exactly the same thing with a slightly different name.[/quote] The first editions of D&amp;D had <strong>balrogs</strong> (and <strong>hobbits</strong> and <strong>ents</strong>). after what i am sure is a polite conversation that did not involve any discussion of lawsuits or licensing fees, the later editions had "balors" and "halflings" and "treants". Fri, 21 Oct 2011 17:52:08 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157320 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157320 lasalle202 Putting a work on an open website <strong>is</strong> "publishing". It is just highly unlikely that the owner would be able to prove "damages" from such a work. Fri, 21 Oct 2011 17:57:53 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157396 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157396 lasalle202 and even more unlikely that they would be able to collect anything like the legal costs it would take to get through court Fri, 21 Oct 2011 17:58:48 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157408 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_157408 AmyBot My notes for NaNo so far have a long tangent in one direction and then in parentheses (but NOT like Harry Potter). And then I go on for a while until I hit another parentheses (but NOT like Hunger Games). I've actually enjoyed hitting this points. At first they're frustrating, but when I have to rethink my plot and not take my first guttural reaction, I usually come up with a choice that's more creative and interesting. Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:22:30 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_157707 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_157707 keolah Let me make this clear: <strong>There is no such thing as "accidental plagiarism".</strong> It doesn't even matter if you think your story is "similar". If you're writing it in your own words, rather than copying it down from the original source word for word, it's <em>not</em> "plagiarism". Even if you follow basically the same plot point for point, there's still nothing illegal about this. Even if you have characters that may as well be lifted from another source and given a new name, there's really no problem with this. Nobody can put a trademark on something so general as "hot leather-wearing action chick" or "dark and broody man" or etc. Also remember that as writers, you're overly critical of your own work and may be perceiving "similarities" that you think would be obvious, and it may well be that nobody else would even conceive of this "similarity" beyond the most general "being in the same genre as this other thing". Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:27:12 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_157775 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_157775 Alleyleeplz I feel like much of my technology/world development is influenced by a few of the Final Fantasy games. Though I've never used an exact image/description/place from another person's work (intentionally or that I know of). Other than that, I'm trying to keep things as far as specific characters and names as original as I can. It's a tedious task, but worth the extra research! Sat, 22 Oct 2011 05:28:03 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_165910 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_165910 Sparksbet I saw this thread and HAD to comment because... well, I've been accused of plgiarizing J.K. Rowling. One of my past NaNo novels was (before I decided it needed MAJOR changes) about a boy with special powers who goes to a boarding school for kids with similar special powers and fulfill some sort of prophrecy. My Harry Potter-loving friends immediately shouted plagiarism, probably because our school had just had its yearly plagiarism presentation and, for some insane reason, stealing someone's ideas was counted as plagiarism. Ironically, I've never read Harry Potter, which was my foremost argument in how I wasn't plagiarizing it. Not to mention all the various plot differences that my friends didn't even know about because they hadn't read my book. I'm not sure what category these similarities in my book would fall under. It CAN'T be influence, as I've never read Harry Potter. Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:02:41 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_168683 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_168683 TheWitchingWell In order to not be too close to anything I have taken a little from all of my favourite genres and combined them! As far as I know, no one else has written an espionage, erotic, lesbian romance, psychological warfare, thriller novel. I hope. :/ Sat, 22 Oct 2011 23:47:18 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_175027 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_175027 Iced_Coffee The funny thing is, is that the setting for WH40K was originally just a mashup of Herbert's Dune, and Michael Moorcock's many Eternal Champion series. Ideas get composted all the time. As long as you put in the work to evolve beyond your inspiration, you're in the company of almost every writer who ever wrote. Sun, 23 Oct 2011 19:33:47 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_185153 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_185153 OriDoodle Hey Keolah, it may not legally be plagiarism if you are writing down the story plot for plot in your own words, but it won't make for a very publishable story (unless it is a very good parody, in the vein of "Twilight at lake Woebegotten"). I myself have been 'guilty' of a few idea-borrowing-moments. But those moments have lead to original tales once I tweaked and fleshed them out. one infamous one in my memory would be the story I thought was a wonderful tale of romance and high adventure. I was a quarter of the way through it, getting to the good part where Weston saves Lily from the evil assassin, when I realized I had pretty much ripped off Princess Bride. Whoops. So, tweaking time! Mon, 24 Oct 2011 01:56:49 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_190369 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_190369 keolah Actually, quite a lot of stories have basically the same plot. For example... the entire romance genre. If you boil everything down to its most basic level, everything sounds overdone. Star Wars didn't have a new plot -- all it did was set it in space. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 02:57:18 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_191305 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_191305 von gelmini It falls under fair use and transformative work, so they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 12:36:49 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_196052 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_196052 Edward Ouelette Just wanna say that I adore Tessa Stone and all her bespectacled, sideburned boys. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:13:45 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_197251 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_197251 GrangerGirl26 I kind of wanted to write a fanfiction for it though... Is that even allowed? Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:07:14 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_205829 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_205829 keolah Fanfic is perfectly okay to write for nano. Tue, 25 Oct 2011 01:58:13 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_206689 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_206689 JB Dryden I would say the best way to know whether or not you're going beyond influence is to read as much in your chosen genre as you can. Not only will that give you some tricks of the trade, but you'll begin to discover the stories you like to read, which generally tend to by similar to the stories you like to write. To be honest, though, plagiarism is very difficult to do in fiction unless you start lifting passages or borrowing characters. Even fair use allows the borrowing of characters for things like parody or satire. If you're creating original characters, with your own plot and setting, then it's going to be real hard for someone to say more than just, "Oh, hey, that sounds a little like a book I once read." Tue, 25 Oct 2011 03:13:25 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_207976 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_207976 smaszansa I would say ignorance on their part (no offense!). The premise of a boarding school with special powers has not only been done before, but in some circles could be considered a cliche. It was only J.K. Rowling who wrote a version of it that became immensely successful. On the TVTropes website, they call this the "Older Than They Think" trope, which talks about certain ideas that have been around for longer than the newer generation (or newer fans) are aware of. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OlderThanTheyThink &lt;--- be very careful of this link as it's known as a "time sink" Tue, 25 Oct 2011 11:57:19 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_212925 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_212925 shogungari So just to be clear, influence is alright? Because let me see if this sounds familiar character-wise: A tomboyish girl with tan skin, spiky red hair, lanky short body, and a washboard chest goes around with a male-oriented name in male-oriented clothes being unusual and good at what she does, all while wearing goggles. Anyone outside the genre would think it's a guy or a preteen. Ed from Cowboy Bebop, or Ace from my own story. Swear to Gaia it's a coincidence, but the likeness is uncanny. &gt;&lt; I'm worried people might call BS on it and claim it's plagiarized. Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:12:47 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_220268 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_220268 shogungari And for the record I've never seen Cowboy Bebop. I only know of Ed by osmosis of the internet. But I described my idea to my friend who said: "So, Ed from Cowboy Bebop?" "No, not Ed, this is a girl." "Right, so's Ed." "Yeah, but Ace is mistaken for a guy" "So's Ed" "Okay, but she's short and skinny-" "Ed" "She wears goggles-" "Ed!" "Stop it!" "Let me guess, Ace wears boys clothes and is weird? But also good at what she does? And Ace isn't her real name, it's something embarrassing?" "How did....Ed?" "Ed." "DAMMIT!" So...yeah, great minds think alike, or flat out character stealing? :x Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:18:26 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_220361 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_220361 keolah This archetype is not exactly rare. You break down anything to its most general terms, and everything sounds like everything else. The "originality" is in the details. And by "details" I don't mean "hair color". ;p Very likely, two characters that superficially sound similar may have a completely different background or personality. And no, you can't copyright character archetypes. Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:05:39 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_221155 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_221155 Flavia Denise I have read and reread His Dark Materials dozens of times when I was a teen. I tell you this so you understand that I'm not guessing. Phillip Pullman was my J. K. Rowling before Harry Potter came out. One of the reasons The Golden Compass is such an amazing book is that Pullman manages to juggle several ideas in this perfectly orchestrated book. I can only imagine how much work it took to plan the story and how many rewrites he had to do. Reading your synopsis I was bothered by the similarity, but what I feel you should really work on before starting to write is how everything will fit together. You have a lot of elements and names like Wanderers and Takers makes me feel like you don't really know who these people are - the great thing about Pullman is that you can really see the gypsies as a nation, not just people who go from place to place. I realize this is early stages and that you are still figuring out. Hope you find the words useful and best luck with the book! Wed, 26 Oct 2011 19:27:04 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_232799 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_232799 RunningWolf Lol, that's funny. Thanks for helping me avoid any similar "polite conversations"! Wed, 26 Oct 2011 22:23:15 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_235785 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_235785 Talus Storm When I first started writing I quit every time I saw something that was too close to my story. Then I realized that the similarities are just that - coincidental similarities. For example, I started one novel and then quit when I saw Avatar because it also had a paralized man get a new body and become a warrior. Then I realized that my world was completely different, my magic system wasn't anything like Avatar and everything else about my story - which is more of the steampunk/fantasy genre - began to make me question why I ever thought it was like Avatar in the first place. There's a Leonardo DiCaprio movie coming out that uses other ideas from my story as well, but again the setting is so completely different than I am probably the only one drawing a parallel between them. Having convinced myself of this I re-addressed my novel and finished a first draft. I decided to let the coincidences just assure me that my ideas ARE good because Hollywood thinks they are good. As long as the overall story is completely different, one little concept can be reused because it's not really that original. Do it differently, do it better, and do it in your own way. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 01:30:22 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_238845 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_238845 Sadie2 I've had an idea kicking around for months now, and it's been pushing it's way to the forefront of my brain now that Nano has come up and I've been wanting to take part in it this year. Problem is, I feel like I'm ripping it off of Maggie Stiefvater's 'The Wolves of Mercy Falls' series. Mind you I'm not about to write a series here, but I just can't get over it. I've had the idea that a boy discovers one of his neighbors is keeping a wolf caged in his backyard, and curiousity gets the best of him as to why. When he discovers that not only is the wolf a boy, but a boy discovering the ways of his shapeshifting ability, he vows to help him get released. I'm thinking this is a bit of an irrational fear, but I just can't shake it. Ugh! Thu, 27 Oct 2011 05:49:32 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_242673 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_242673 Eigee Ugh... I hate how this has repeatedly happened to me. My problem is I had the idea years ago and it has taken me so long to put it down to pages, more books and movies have come out with my exact same idea. So in order to feel moral and comfortable with myself and writing the freaking novel I have to redesign it. Only it has happened so many times, I just have learned to deal with the fact that it inevitably will resemble other stories and that I'll have to find its own essence as I write it. Now let me explain. Years ago I had this idea about a dystopian book in which people don't live in the Earth anymore but in these Biospheres around the moon and there were these two sets of siblings coming from different families that are abducted by the government to form part of an elite of kids who are genetically gifted and hence are able to serve as military. Only these kids violate the rules and as a punishment they are sent to the Earth to "find sustainable living conditions", which are nonexistent. So in other words, they are sent to die off. It all was well with my little pretty story until I watched WALL-E. So scratch the living outside the Earth thing. I realized there were already books like this: Scott Orson Card's Ender's Game series, A Place Called Earth (which ironically was my first working title) by an author whose name I don't remember. Then I saw TRON, which had nothing to do with the story but really resembled how I pictured life in the Biospheres, The Book of Eli, 2012, a never ending list to put it short... I had to redesign it. My novel was nothing new and I was ready to give up on it. But just for the sake of it, I changed it. Now it was about a girl, determined and a true survivor, who was abducted by the government to form part of the same elite but now they serve as Earth scavengers AND military. Only she didn't want that, and the government's way to manipulate her was to threaten the life of her younger brother, the only family she has left. In order to save the life of her brother she succumbs to the governments wishes only she finds its weak spot and along a sweet natured well-to-do kid --who later becomes her love interest-- and a hot-tempered genetically designed boy, she causes a revolution that brings what balance can be returned to the surviving people of a futuristic, polluted Earth. And then guess what book I read. The Hunger Games. And although I loved it, I hated Suzanne Collins for having depicted the world as I imagined it in my novel. Not only it crushed my dream to write the dang story, but she had done it so much better. Not to mention she used the same world-building devices I intended to; the Reaping, the idea of killing kids, social distortions, media influence, separating people by specific jobs... even freaking Peeta and Katniss for God's sake! Who were the spitting image of my pair of main characters! Peeta especially, that's EXACTLY how I pictured my well-to-do character, physically as well as emotionally. Go figure, right? So now I am facing my THIRD attempt at writing this novel as originally as I can. I am aware that being influenced by other writers is not a bad thing, but somehow I can't get off this idea that if I ever get lucky enough to be published it'll just be a book put to the standards of such and such book. You know, like it happened when Harry Potter was around with fantasy novels and then with Twilight and the dark romance ones, and like it happens with novels like Divergent being compared to the Hunger Games. Even if I never get published I don't want it to be that one book "that's a lot like such and such", it just goes against my work ethics, you know. I don't want my novel to be the resemblance of another one. I want it to be able to be its own standard, like it happens with good ground-breaking novels. I don't know, maybe I'm raising my creativity bar too high, but I think I can do it. It's not what the story's about but how you tell it that makes it interesting and relevant. Don't you think? In either way, I already have a summary that mixes up the best of my previous plot lines and I deliberately use some of the world-building devices The Hunger Games has. Let's hope how it works. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:11:04 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244382 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244382 mandiiminx When I was about 11 or 12 I planned a novel about a 'chosen one' who had to kill a villain because it was in a prophecy ... the prophecy was kept in a little see-through orb. I'm not kidding. Just like the fifth Harry Potter book. A year or so later, the book came out and I was so angry. It wasn't until I was older, I realised JK Rowling definitely did not invent prophecies... haha. It was quite eerie though, the part about the orbs. Also, there was no swirling mist inside by orbs, but little floating beads of light. When the orb is smashed the bead of light floats into the person who was holding it's brain and they see visions of the future. See? They're nothing alike *cough cough* Has the orb been done before? Does anyone know? Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:45:12 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244555 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244555 mandiiminx Also, I'm pretty sure JK Rowling didn't come out with the phrase 'chosen one' until Book Six. Where it was littered throughout what I wrote. However, that one is definitely not original. Thu, 27 Oct 2011 10:46:38 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244565 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_244565 Silver_Raven I'm currently 46k words into a "novel" I started in February [I call it The 7 Tools of Sin]. Now, my main character, as well as most of her backstory , is like a complex mixture of Stephen King's Carrie White and Enma Ai, the main character in the anime Jigoku Shoujo [Hell Girl]. Them, and a girl with blonde hair, green eyes, and a heart-shaped face [because your mental image of a character is an integral part of him/her]. Now, being a fan of both works, I'll be first to admit, I did base a part of my main character on the characters I thought exhibited the qualities I was looking for that fit my story [in this case, the "tortured soul"]. However, everything else is of my own creation. Obviously, to people who know nothing of these two aforementioned characters can't see the connection [It's a rare combo, I'd think, linking a western horror novel to an anime], but to those who can, do you guys think they're likely to spot the influences? And if so, is it possible that the narrative/the more unique aspects of the character can carry it along that it won't matter? Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:22:28 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_249839 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_249839 skwalas [quote=mandiiminx] Has the orb been done before? Does anyone know? [/quote] Yes. Google "orb of prophecy and change", "Ilfanti and the orb of prophecy", "Bajoran orbs". Fri, 28 Oct 2011 04:51:11 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_257768 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_257768 PlanNine Well developed characters can sometimes acquire copyright protection, so utilizing that character could present an issue (independent creation is OK). Fri, 28 Oct 2011 21:17:50 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_268207 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_268207 keolah PlanNine - You can't "copyright" a character. You can _trademark_ a character. Copyright only covers works, not concepts. And trademarks only apply when something is extremely similar -- that is, a name, costume, etc. (For example, professional wrestler's personas are protected so that somebody else can't use a persona that could be confused with them.) Fri, 28 Oct 2011 23:16:51 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_270187 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_270187 Intuition At Keolah and Wolfme. Have you heard of the movie, "Season of the Witch"? Well, that happens to seem extremely like my first novel, "The Kidnapped Noble". It's got a girl who looks exactly like the main character in TKN, a sand-city place that looks exactly like the outlaw's village in TKN, and, overall, it's almost exactly the same. I, too, was going *blink blink* when I saw the trailer. But then I came to think; Hey, there's 7 billion people in this world. I am one of them. There's bound to be someone out there with the same idea as me, no matter how hard I try to make it original. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 02:27:10 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_272762 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_272762 TcrucificoT The idea of Hunger Games is like Battle Royale but they have different story. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 05:48:20 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_275609 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_275609 Mae 13 I've actually changed my outline a lot, and I have a much better understanding of my book and characters, and my overall plot. Critique is really helpful to me, and I think I've managed to change around enough things that it doesn't bear any resemblance to Pullman (apart from interdimensional travel, which is certainly not something that he came up with). Thanks very much for reading through my outline, and it's definitely true, I wrote that outline in the very, very, very, very, very early stages of planning my book, so I didn't really have a very good idea of what I was doing. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:02:46 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_283399 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_283399 Easily Distracted The thing is, there are a lot of books out there, and a lot of 'conventions' that get built into genres - for example, in romance there's the whole 'her best male friend turns out to be perfect for her after a lot of drama with clearly unsuitable but wildly sexy others'. In fantasy there's the 'gay mage' and the 'outsider/thief who saves the kingdom' and the 'young person of apparently insignificant background who turns out to be the lost heir/profesied mage/saviour'. My current idea has a character (female student) and setting (university in parallel world where magic is on the curriculum) and theme (our-world girl goes to parallel world university where she makes friends with slightly mysterious, moody male who has fallen on hard times, finds the true perpetrator of the offence that caused the hard times, discovers her own powers, becomes more grown up person and makes positive choice about her future) which are really markedly like a Margaret Ball novel which I vaguely remember. OK, I'm mixing it up with a few other elements (there will be a supportive male friend who may become a romantic interest, and possibly a magically gifted and very solipsist cat, and... yeah, well). My hope/plan/assumption is that once I actually start writing the thing, it will be shaped by my own voice and experiences and other things I like reading - MY university will not be based on the American system, it will be a blend of UK and European because those are the systems I know, MY character won't be really upset by not being able to get batteries for her walkman to listen to her favourite indie bands partly cos I've never been a music-with-everything kind of person myself - and by the end it will be a story with some broad similarities, not a close mimicry. Look at all the novels which are fictionalisations of the ballard of Tam Lin, or the Cinderella story, or use a talent contest like X factor as context/plot driver. The many many variants on James Bond (maverick, sexy spy who proves everyone wrong time and again by delivering the goods whilst stretching his boss' patience). There are only a small number of plots. The challenge is to add your own colour and voice to a retelling of one of them. And incidentally, in the University system where I work, plagiarism is pretty much confined to direct copying without acknowledgement of the ideas or data of another... Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:34:04 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_285782 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_285782 Easily Distracted What about arguing that Tolkein's Balrogs are either based on a race memory of (or encounter with) of the real thing (i.e. yours are quite aware he used them and maybe flattered or still grumpy that Tasty Tolkein got away from them or something like that), or that his description and all the people who read about it have led to them becoming real (the old 'gods exist because of belief and the power of faith' idea which pops up regularly in fantasy - 'belief in monsters causes monsters to exist' could be a neat twist, and maybe even help your plot along...) Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:37:46 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_285837 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_285837 Kevin Armes The plot of my first novel was described (by someone who had only heard my brief outline) as 'Enid Blyton meets Slum Dog Millionaire'. I'll settle for that! :-) Sun, 30 Oct 2011 13:34:07 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_295939 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_295939 centuryten I was explaining the premise of my sci-fi story that I'm going to start tomorrow and a friend was worried it was going to be too similar to the tv show Firefly. I think it came from me saying that I saw terraformers settling a new planet being similar to pioneers in the old west. I'm not too worried though, since I only plan on drawing on the emotional simularity and not physically making the setting like a western. Honestly I'm more worried about the private eye main character being a bit too Raymond Chandler. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 19:22:15 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_301492 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_301492 wintermoon Oddly enough, mine is a story based on Dave Matthews songs. I originally got the idea a few years ago and was planning to write it as a script including the songs, in the style of "Across the Universe." I'm thinking, though, that as long as I'm not quoting the songs directly, and I credit Dave if I want to use song titles as chapter titles, I should be okay. I'd think the same would go for Jimmy Buffett songs. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 05:34:49 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_314785 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_314785 imoustacheyouaquestion I read somewhere that apparently there's only 7 original story ideas in the world and everything else just comes from that... or maybe I'm getting my numbers wrong *ponders* Mon, 31 Oct 2011 08:27:33 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_316524 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_316524 Flavia Denise I'm glad I could help and I'm sorry if I was too harsh. I just read the new outline and it really has no resemblance to Pullman now. And I could get an idea of what's going on with the story. Best of luck with your writing! Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:48:15 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_320403 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_320403 SammyWrae The Reduced Shakespeare Company said there are only three - the "fish out of water" plot, the "coming of age" plot and "The Jesus story" plot. Maybe the idea of 7 plots comes from the idea that there is generally one driving force behind the main character, and it is usually one of the seven deadly sins? (Lust, Wrath, Pride, Sloth, Gluttony, Avarice and.... I want to say "Dopey", but that's probably not the seventh sin, is it?) Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:46:56 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_332124 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_332124 SammyWrae I think that - like obscenity - most people can tell plagiarism when they see it. For example - from a certain point of view, Harry Potter is pretty much Luke Skywalker. They share a vast number of common traits, and a fairly similar back story. However you can also say that there are any number of heroes raised in secret who gain an older mentor and end up going on a heroic quest to save the realm, so it is highly probable Luke Skywalker isn't the source of that character either. I think that, for the topic of characters, plagiarism a lot more vague than it is for plots. For example, I could create a girl named Jane Smith who is raised by her next door neighbour after her parents and killed, and then learns she is the heir to a long line of female warriors who come forth to defend the realm when it is in danger. Which could be a copy of Harry Potter, of Buffy Summers, of Cammie &amp; Macey or of any number of others. But as long as I don't write the exact same story as Harry Potter, Buffy The Vampire Slayer or The GG, then I wouldn't (personally) class that as plagiarism. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:58:19 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_332475 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_332475 CarolinMescalin Sounds like you're thinking of the 7 (sometimes 8) story archetypes. There's an overview of them on this site: <a href="http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/blf10/Links/stories.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:21:55 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_355197 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_355197 CarolinMescalin Some people are worrying about how their character looks being plagiaristic. Unless your character has features specific to a well-known character - Harry Potter's scar and perfectly round eyeglasses, for example - it doesn't matter if your character looks similar in your head. The same hair and eye colour isn't going to make readers say "wait, that looks like..." because no one can imagine your character exactly the way you do. Tue, 01 Nov 2011 16:34:13 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_355494 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_355494 indigo1100 Well, I read the plot outline you have, and to me it sounds nothing at all like Golden Compass- the characters has a different situation, the dimensions seem to work differently, the world in general is different- problematic industry is common in general in a particular type of fantasy, but not so much in Golden Compass- and since the plot in Golden Compass in driven by Dust, the Compass, and daemons, none of which you have, that's completely different too. I don't think you should worry. Tue, 01 Nov 2011 17:21:55 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_356504 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_356504 indigo1100 OK, this is somewhat of an odd one. I have a (female, 13-year-old) character in my story whose name is Vega (it's a nickname for Aivecka), who has braided blond hair, and who wears a flesh-colored mask at all times. In a thing called Street Fighter, there's a (male, adult) character named Vega (something else in Japan, though, apparently) who has braided brown or blond hair and a white mask. I didn't know about this when I made up the character, but it is responsible for it. My story takes place in a completely different world, so there's no actual relation- just the visual and name similarity. I have also never read Street Fighter (is it even something you read? I don't know), but I doubt the characters are much similar aside from that. Is this a problem? And if so, is it specifically the name in common that's the problem? (I don't want to change her name, but I will if I have to). Thanks! Tue, 01 Nov 2011 20:14:17 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_360965 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_360965 DotchiLatham My friend was reading some of my articles that are occasionally posted in the newspaper here. He calls me "The next Erma Bombeck" which I take as a huge compliment! But sometimes I worry that I might have a story idea that is too similar to hers. I am not too worried about plagiarizing since my book is about my experiences from when I lived in Tennessee. I do worry that it will look like I stole my ideas from her and didn't think of my own. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:01:50 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_386019 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_386019 DavidConrad [quote=skwalas] As far as characters, if you can base a character more or less entirely on an living breathing person (changed just enough to avoid libel suits), then why wouldn't the same leeway be allowed for basing your character on another (fictional) character? [/quote] Because a living breathing person, or a dead person for that matter, is not covered under copyright law. A fictional character is, because it was created by another author. Unless of course that fictional character is a from a work that has fallen into the public domain. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:31:35 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_389242 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_389242 DavidConrad The problem is not to explain to your readers how it is that you are using the term 'Balrog', which everybody thinks J.R.R. Tolkien invented. The problem is how to fend off lawsuits from Christopher Tolkien. I think if your defense in court was that Balrogs really exist, you'd be expected to prove it before the court would accept your assertion. So, unless you can produce an actual Balrog on demand, no. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:43:40 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_389551 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_389551 DavidConrad The one that I know is the 36 Dramatic Situations by Georges Polti. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirty-Six_Dramatic_Situations" rel="nofollow">The Thirty-Six Dramatic Situations</a> (wiki) Fun fact: His last name is an anagram of "I Plot". Wed, 02 Nov 2011 14:57:43 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_389923 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_389923 DavidConrad That isn't any problem. It's a meaningless coincidence. Street Fighter is a video game that was made into a movie. One thing I don't understand. You say, "I didn't know about this when I made up the character, but it is responsible for it." How could it be responsible for it if you didn't know about it? Wed, 02 Nov 2011 15:02:58 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_390038 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_390038 indigo1100 Basically, I had an action figure I bought at a garage sale who became the character, and friend of mine named her Vega- I had no idea why at the time, but some years later I was reading a book about Street Fighter and had a moment of unexpected recognition. Thu, 03 Nov 2011 02:36:03 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_413283 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_413283 Karret I want to basically sync up my story to a Mars Volta album... the stories are actually really different. The Mars Volta reportedly used a diary of a guy looking for his biological parents, while mine is about 2 hunters of the supernatural crossing paths with a supernatural being who's innocent of the crimes they are accusing him of. [stfu grammar nazis. D: &lt;] Thing is, I do want to include bits of the lyrics in places, and have scenes in the story resemble what happens in the songs because TMV writes some pretty damn cryptic lyrics, that could be interpreted a lot of ways and stuff like that. But yeah, I want it to be known that I synced it up, you know, and have the two stories be more like... idk paralleled somehow? Even though I've never done it myself to know how accurate this.. thing is, it's kind of like how the Pink Floyd album, when set to The Wizard of Oz, fits perfectly or something like that.... only mine would be intentional. :ua [and when all written out, probably wouldn't actually sync up, time-wise..] Is that allowed? :ua Thu, 03 Nov 2011 07:44:59 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_420918 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_420918 Karret I think I should also mention, I also had the basic idea of my story long before I had the idea to sync it up the the album~ The album just helped me with the details of how I should 'organize' it. xP Thu, 03 Nov 2011 07:48:50 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_420956 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_420956 RobertLent If you want to have a story about a school of magic which centers around one student with a special destiny, that isn't plagiarism. If you are have a show about people on a spaceship who travel around the galaxy, even if you're thinking about Star Trek, it is not plagiarism. Every time the next big thing comes out, there is a flood of works with similar themes. They aren't plagiarizing. They are just taking ideas that belong to the world and putting their own take on them. Culture would be stifled if someone could take an idea and say that this idea belonged to them, and as such, no one else could explore that idea. It would bring culture to a stop. Thu, 03 Nov 2011 15:51:52 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_428851 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_428851 Gravy I am writing a book heavily influenced by the Wizard of Oz series and I was wondering if I have several characters from theses books with sightly different names and backgrounds if that is okay. What about using the magic items? Like the sliver shoes and such? What if I give them sightly different names and powers? Thu, 03 Nov 2011 18:23:07 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_432913 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_432913 blu_sour_skittle Neither is a story I'm working on for my nano this year, but I had an Inuyasha fanfic and a Potter fic that both went beyond the realms that they were originally meant to be. The characters evolved so much, but the plot not so much and they ended up glass-ceiling-ing. I ended up taking the two stories, smooshing them together, and merging them into a single universe, and I'm still working on the saga now. Most of the characters from both stories were OCs, with a handful of exceptions, most of whom have become unrecognizable from their counterparts. After removing them from their fanfic universe, a plot finally emerged, and the story is going places. I'm extremely satisfied with the story, but I go to great lengths to make sure that even if I keep elements from my fanfictions, that those same elements cannot be too heavily traced back their original source. I don't mind some resemblance, but too much can be cause for "YOU COPYCAT!" which I don't want nor need. I strive to be original and creative, despite where my inspiration comes from. Fri, 04 Nov 2011 06:00:42 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_453632 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_453632 Daveler As a quality of writing, originality is an aspect that I believe authors favor over all others, despite it not really being the most important. The elements of a good book are things like entertaining versus boring, clear versus confusing, cliche versus original, believable versus being clearly made up, etc, and out of all of the things a good book can or needs to be, being original is one of the lower priorities. An entertaining, cliche book is better than a boring, original one. I think the reason we're so fixated on it is that originality has control over all of the other aspects of good writing; it's easier to be interesting when it's not cliche. On that note, though, being truly original wouldn't be a good thing because no one would understand it. They'd need something to relate it to. Also, there is a distinct difference between stealing an idea and using one, and that is literally the motivation. If the author is copying the idea because "he wished he came up with it," then that's stealing. It's not adding anything. If a person who can read the original and not get anything from the "copy" it is stealing. If he can enjoy both, then it's using. After a while, every time an author or artist gives his work to someone to look at, they're bound to hear, "Oh, you should read blah, blah blah." You get use to it. Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:56:24 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_466401 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_466401 dzio Good Omens is probably my favourite book of all time. ;) And I can't see how anyone could think it's "very similar" to Supernatural. I watch it and other than both featuring angels, demons and regular people being jerked around by both sides I really don't see it. It's like saying two books are similar because they're both set in 1920s America. And there's a lot of ways you can write "angel and demon trying to stop the apocalypse", Pratchett and Gaiman used only one of them. Fri, 04 Nov 2011 22:02:24 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_471821 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_471821 EllieStoller No, the lost (wandering, hidden etc.) prince is an archetype--a sort of universal character. Here's quote from Diana Wynne Jones: “Slender Youth. A tour companion who may be either a lost prince or a girl/princess in disguise. In the latter case it is tactful to pretend you think she is a boy. She/he will be ignorant, hasty and shy, and will need hauling out of trouble quite a lot. But she/he will grow up in the course of the Tour. In fact she/he will be the only Companion who will change in any way. Quite often, she/he will soon exhibit a very useful talent for magic and end up by hauling everyone else out of trouble. But this will not be until midway through your second brochure.” ― Diana Wynne Jones, The Tough Guide to Fantasyland Sat, 05 Nov 2011 00:31:06 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_475773 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_475773 Mae 13 You weren't too harsh at all! I asked for criticism and I got plenty, which I find very helpful as a writer. I actually haven't updated the outline on my profile, I only updated the one in my notes. So the one you are reading now is the same as the one from before, but I appreciate that you liked it better the second time through! And thanks so much for following up, that was really sweet, you didn't have to do that. :) Sat, 05 Nov 2011 05:20:43 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_483420 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_483420 Chris Kapot The chances are, if you <em>are</em> plagiarising JKR, you are <em>actually</em> plagiarising someone else anyway. The emphasis on forever being utterly original (indeed, the belief that it is possible) and the obsession with 'intellectual property' are fairly modern phenomena. Don't sweat it. Just write a good story. Let's face it, Lily Allen's 'Who'd Have Known' is so far superior to Take That's 'Shine', it single-handedly makes the case for unintentional plagiarism! ;) Sat, 05 Nov 2011 12:02:44 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_488013 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_488013 Dawnheart we are all mirrors. we reflect the world around us, in some way shape or form. even if we try not to be mainstream we are still modeling our ideals around society. without society, what would we be *opposite* of? either way i feel so depressed about my novel. it seems to be the "normal" good vs evil thing but is there any story that is NOT that? Sun, 06 Nov 2011 02:05:31 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_508046 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_508046 Alandria The stand is another example of angel/demon within an apocalypse setting. I struggle with this myself because my story is post-apocalyptic fiction with the 4 horsemen battling the final battle to see who wins control of the earth. And I know it can't be the first time this story has been told, but I hope to tell it in my own way, in a way that makes it unique to me. Sun, 06 Nov 2011 07:09:30 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_515304 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_515304 Fishwings That happens to me all the time..................I come up with a brilliant idea, write twenty pages and suddenly realize it's a flip version of someone else's book.............oops. Sun, 06 Nov 2011 10:17:38 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_517169 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_517169 Jedi Scaper Considering JK Rowling borderline plagiarized Neil Gaiman... it's all good. Tue, 08 Nov 2011 05:59:17 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_568877 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_568877 riddikulus-grin Ok, this has been on my mind for a very long time. I am very worried my novel is too similar to the Hunger Games trilogy by Suzanne Collins. I read the series ages before I came uo with the plot, so it wasn't until I read them again (I almost always read books more than once) that I realized the similarities. The character is living in an alternate version of reality/sometime in the future, and an orginisation called The Church is taking over. I"m worried it's too similar to the Capitol in HG. Also, she's fighting to save her little sister, she's got a friend who is mute (though not in a cut-off-your-toung avox way), she's learning to hunt, and she's dealing with the affections of two boys. The actually way the plot plays out it quite different (she goes off into a woods, finds an orginisation working to destroy the Church, joins them, they send out a spy and then storm the Church building), but is it too similar? Wed, 09 Nov 2011 16:22:44 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_598416 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_598416 SaphireTategami48 OMG i feel this way about Twilight sometimes............. :( but i think that if it, in most places, seems a lot different, it wouldn't be plagiarizing. more like you are using at as a guide..........maybe.... Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:32:57 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_648003 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_648003 SaphireTategami48 Wonderful description Sat, 12 Nov 2011 00:33:31 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_648011 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_648011 saunved There's magic in my novel.. but it is not related to wizards or not even close to wizardry. In fact... the magic (or the spells) have a completely rational reason. There is to wand waving. I am I plagiarizing J.K Rowling? (I have read all her books). And yes... I also have ghosts... but that is to add spice to the story... not trying to imitate... And the setting of the story is one thousand percent different than a setting like, say Hogwarts or Kings Cross or something! Is this plagiarizing? I seriously need to know. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:57:18 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_661776 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_661776 Sssnapdragon It used to be that drawing inspiration from others wasn't considered plagiarism so much as it was a compliment...you can't read Shakespeare without thinking about Chaucer,and you can't read Chaucer without thinking of Dante, Petrarch, and Boccaccio. The point is that everything you write could have connections or similarities to another author's work, and you can't stress yourself out about borrowing too much, especially for NaNo. Write your story the way it feels correct to you--chances are you'll marinate the book with enough of your own flavor that by the end, it won't resemble your inspirations. If it's too close, you can always edit later. In the literary world, there is a line between inspiration and plagiarism, certainly, but remember that being compared to another author SHOULD be a compliment, not an insult on your personal creativity. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Some of the most amazing works of art are the same stories someone else told, but reinvented in a new way by a new author. For example, Rowling wasn't the first to write about magic, boy wizards, wizarding schools, or good vs. evil. It's the world she created and the characters she gave some depth to that made her so popular. Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:22:56 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_677558 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_677558 cicirocks I'm inspired by lots of things and some are remarkably similar to other things by i don't have the same characters or words. Besides if you're not copying their exact words then it's not plagiarism and you don'r have the same thought flow as they do! :D Sun, 13 Nov 2011 23:23:37 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_680687 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_680687 flopart I'd like to see some sources/evidence for this. My understanding is that she was a classics major, and she and Mr. Gaiman probably drew from the same well of Western mythology. Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:17:22 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_735773 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_735773 flopart Considering I'm writing a version of a 500 year old myth/legend (Faust), I feel oddly relieved of worrying about coping, because any time I refer to the Marlowe or the Goethe, it's a light nod and then back to my re-invention. Sometimes working within the boundaries of existing ideas is more inspiring and productive for me than doing something 100% never before seen. Thu, 17 Nov 2011 05:24:54 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_735851 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_735851 Methysan Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. -T.S. Eliot Fri, 18 Nov 2011 17:29:35 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_754374 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_754374 saunved Thanks for the advice. I know I am not plagiarizing now, and I hope I continue this way. I have made up my own world in my book and I hope that I never copy any author or steal his or her ideas even unknowingly. I will always try to be original... Sat, 19 Nov 2011 19:41:20 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_768338 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_768338 acsander You might be interested in Joseph Campbell's "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," and generally everything he's ever written. I saw a documentary about Campbell once, and I think it had George Lucas gushing about Campbell and how Luke Skywalker fits into Campbell's wonderful (if limited) epic hero archetype. Either that or Campbell gushing about Lucas? Something like that. There were clips from Star Wars, anyway. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:19:13 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_791322 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_791322 acsander There's magic in pretty much all fantasy books. It's part of the genre. It's not plagiarism. JKR invented neither magic or ghosts. You could have magic wands and still be okay. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 14:22:59 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_791350 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_791350 skinnybee I was just trying to figure out the middle &amp; last name of one of my most important characters, Calliope. I decided on Helen for her middle name. It fit perfectly, refers back to my own middle name (not directly), I was extremely happy with it. Until I realised that one of my favourite authors, Jeffrey Eugenides' Cal of 'Middlesex' was ALSO named Calliope Helen. I'm amused and intrigued more than anything. But now I definitely will need another middlename. Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:55:40 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_792392 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_792392 katethenanowrimo-er I set the story in the first chapter, and then went into the story. I got this from Rowling, but haven't alot of authors done this? Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:42:39 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_811560 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_811560 Harlow I thoroughly admit to being influenced by Margaret Mitchell. I love her style of prose and her characterization. Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:33:23 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_813053 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_813053 himmelsgrau There are plot archetypes, classic plots, and so on, and then there's plot-stealing. I think I cross the line when I can read my story and see direct correlations between characters and events. If I have Barry Botter going off to Snogsnorts and befriending Donald Dreezley, then it's too much. It becomes a parody, at best. I don't want to read that book; it's been done and done better. I once started a cyberpunk book, and realized I had the Matrix on my hands, just with cosmetic changes. When it gets to that point, then I put down my proverbial pen and write something else. My nanowrimo project was about a woman whose parents are murdered and she has to discover the killer, while trying to protect their business from competitors. What she uncovers is actually a wide-ranging conspiracy involving lots of things that I don't want to get into. And then, she ends up trying to save her city from a natural disaster. Well, it's a work in progress. And also, I think the main thing is the execution of the story. Is the plot development interesting? I bet many of you could think of some plots that sound similar to the one I wrote. I don't know of any, and so I think it was o.k. for me to write that book. Plus, it was in a fantasy setting, which made it all a little more unpredictable, and hopefully gave it something unique. Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:44:34 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_901526 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_901526 ig_nobleigh If you could Jung would have been all over that. So no, you definitely cannot copyright archetypes. My tarot deck proves it. Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:10:29 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_951792 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_951792 skai413 Deja vu. Last year's NaNo started out as a Digimon/Pokemon crossover that never went anywhere beyond a vague "what if," and never saw the light of day. NaNoWriMo 2010 rolled around, I reached into my brain and dusted off the two chapters I'd actually bothered to put any real thought into (long before either set of mons showed up), and came up with an original fiction...right up until halfway through the month, when various life interruptions compelled me to give up, and I started playing around with a Sonic the Hedgehog fanfiction just to ward off boredome. *headdesk* Good thing I checked the Sonic wordcount before the month was over; given the nature of the original fiction's plot, the new fanfiction kind of worked for me.... Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:06:52 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008199 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008199 skai413 [quote=skwalas] I can't really speak to the whole fanfic thing, with the obvious plagiarism implications even though it's obviously a sincere effort at honoring/celebrating something that really rocked your world [/quote] Technically, copyright infringement, not plagiarism. Acts of plagiarism might often include (or are included in) copyright infringement, but the two are not actually the same. As far as fanfiction is concerned, the two tend to be opposites. Plagiarism implies direct copying of specific text; it is not actually illegal (except in academic situations), but it is definitely unethical. Copyright infringement would violate the rights of the author of that work, even simply by <em>using</em> copyrighted work without permission (e.g. playing a video game I neither bought nor rented)...but does not necessarily copy specific text to do so. Copyright infringement is illegal, but in many cases, that "sincere effort at honoring/celebrating something that really rocked your world" would suggest that it is perfectly ethical (provided you don't try making money at it, in which case morality and legality are the same as one another). That being the case, fanfiction writers (like myself) tend to be more concerned with the ethical question of "should we write the story" than the legal one. On the one hand, I would think society <em>should</em> be more concerned with whether something is ethical than whether it's legal, especially over something as (usually) harmless as one writer showing how much they love another writer's work. On the other hand, "whether it's legal" is the one that decides the penalties if anyone bothers to strike us down. ^^; However, many authors have also stated that they don't have a problem with fanfiction, and are even flattered that someone thinks so highly of their work to write about it. Depends on the work, and the author, in that case. This concludes your irregularly scheduled ramble. Now back to the thread. :D Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:23:37 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008231 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008231 skai413 I'd always understood "fair use" to be an iffy thing, and have to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Although if fanfiction is considered "transformative," it may very well be fair use, but I wager that depends as much on the writer and the story as anything else, still putting it on a case-by-case basis. Like lasalle pointed out, publishing online is publishing. I have Writer's Digest/Market and a slew of other "all about writing" resources that agree. But publishing online, and password protecting the submission so only a select audience can access it, apparently is <em>not</em> "publishing." Now if I could just find the site where I'd read that..... Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:41:42 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008262 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1008262 mycatduncan Well, if my story resembled any other book/movie, it's so lost in timeline error and plot mixup that you couldn't tell anyway! ^_^ Meh, my general idea's probably been done before, but I don't really care. I came up with it on my own and haven't read any books that are like it, so…yeah. To me, at least, it hasn't been done. Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:34:38 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1018017 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1018017 whitedove [quote=Asuka Neko] Make sure people can't easily compare your characters to someone else's. [/quote] Even then you can't be too worried about it. I mean, people will draw connections between any characters with anything in common. I used to hear comparisons between Legolas and Link all the time, even though they are very distinct characters because they are blond, have pointy ears, and have been known to use bows. Humans naturally make connections even where they are a bit of a stretch. It's just the way our brains work. It's how we can go through the day without needing to closely examine ever new object we encounter. A car is a car is a car no matter how different those cars are. A blond "elf" is a blond "elf" is a blond "elf" even if one of them is a religious pacifist, the next is a sadist with a foot fetish, and the other is a book-lover who can fly. No you shouldn't just use a character you found in a story straight up, but it won't do any good to waste time actively trying to make the character different just because you noticed a few similarities in there. There will always be someone who can and will compare your characters to someone else's. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 01:36:18 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1057551 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1057551 whitedove [quote=DavidConrad] Because a living breathing person, or a dead person for that matter, is not covered under copyright law. A fictional character is, because it was created by another author. Unless of course that fictional character is a from a work that has fallen into the public domain. [/quote] Copyright only covers specifics. To use Harry Potter as an example (since I'm sure everyone here is at least vaguely familiar with it), if I was inspired by the idea of Harry Potter and wanted to write about a ten year old boy learning he was a wizard, it might not impress anyone, but it's legal. If I named him Harry Potter and sent him to Hogwarts, it would be copyright infringement. If I copied his description out of the Sorcerer's Stone, that would be plagiarism. If I wrote a character who had the same personality as Harry Potter but a totally different story, I bet no one would even notice. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 03:13:27 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1057825 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1057825 Dripping_Melody In my high school, they recently, I believe, removed a Creative Writing course. Fortunately, and because of this i can't wait till next year, they have a special course that can be taken on a computer, and this course offers you a choice of one of several on computer courses that the school may or may not have. And i plan to enroll in that class and take creative writing. They also recently removed the librarian in our library and placed them as an English teacher, so now we have building aids and such running the library and frankly the one of them I often see is nice but lacks experience and knowledge of the library. Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:07:56 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1068989 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1068989 Mitsukai-aka I started off with a female character that looked far too much like Michelle Sagara's Kaylin from her Chronicles of Elantra book, not to mention the fact that there are a race of Dragons who can become people, and another race that are part cat. I was terrified that when I tried to continue writing that I would be BLATANTLY PLAGERIZING! OH NOES! It turns out that as I've written I have to go back in twist things, fix them and add on a bundle more because the characters have grown and changed so much. So, tldr, just because you start with an idea similar to your favorite author's, doesn't mean it's going to /stay/ that way. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:07:07 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1084754 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1084754 Mitsukai-aka This idea is actually very interesting to me. I'm curious to see how it all turned out for you. Mon, 23 Jan 2012 17:13:11 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_1084777 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=3#forum_thread_comment_1084777 Leonara Declamara [quote=Mitsukai-aka] I started off with a female character that looked far too much like Michelle Sagara's Kaylin from her Chronicles of Elantra book, not to mention the fact that there are a race of Dragons who can become people, and another race that are part cat. I was terrified that when I tried to continue writing that I would be BLATANTLY PLAGERIZING! OH NOES! It turns out that as I've written I have to go back in twist things, fix them and add on a bundle more because the characters have grown and changed so much. So, tldr, just because you start with an idea similar to your favorite author's, doesn't mean it's going to /stay/ that way. [/quote] Having similar physical descriptions isn't plagiarizing. I mean, unless we're talking lightning scar-level character traits here, you're not going to be plagiarizing someone. I mean, I know of at least four series that have dragons who can turn into people, or races that are part cat. Plagiarism is none of the things most of you are worrying about. Plagiarism is when you take something from someone else and claim you wrote it... like copying passages or something. Having a blonde character with the same color eyes as another character is just statistics. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:46:14 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1122793 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1122793 MissCellanea Love this idea. Good luck with it! Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:05:36 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1148183 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1148183 Collen I don't agree with the Reduced Shakespeare Company's three-plots theory, because my novel is neither Fish out of Water, nor Jesus Story, nor Coming of Age. My story focuses on the characters discovering the mysteries and truths of what lies around them, battles with corruption, and the characters realizing their flaws and trying to correct them, which fits into neither of the three. Sun, 04 Mar 2012 23:39:40 +0000 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1189750 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1189750 Moe This thread is exactly what I was looking for :D. What are your all's views on writing a prequel (or a sequel) to a book that you thought was good? While I use to enjoy writing, I never really wrote long stories. I am now in the process of writing a prequel in order to.. "rebirth" my imagination. Is it wrong to use subtle information the author gave you in books to develop your own prequel? Note: It's different characters and setting, and there's quite a gap of time in-between what would be my book and the author's. Thanks! Mon, 16 Apr 2012 02:05:32 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1292089 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1292089 whitedove I guess it depends a little bit on the specific book, but 99.99999% of the time, I would just say treat it as a fanfiction. Many authors recommend writing fanfiction for practice or jumpstarting yourself, like you are talking about, so there is nothing wrong with writing it, so long as the only light it will ever see is perhaps fanfiction.net. I suppose it would not be illegal, unless names from the book are copyrighted, as is not entirely unheard of in, say, fantasy and sci fi, but I think this would fall under poor taste if you did try to publish it as an original work. Then again, there is the distinct possibility that the changes that will inevitably occur as you are writing it will make it original. So, I would say go ahead and write it and look at it when it is done to see if it is a fan-fiction or original. Assume for now that it is a fan-fiction. Tue, 17 Apr 2012 06:24:05 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1295662 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1295662 Moe Alright, thanks for the help. I didn't even know about fanfiction.net :P. I'm not sure if you've read Hunger Games/saw the movie, but I'm writing about the original uprising (the one that lead to the Hunger Games being created.) Really, the only similarities are the words like District 13, the Capitol, and peacekeepers. **Spoiler for those who haven't read MockingJay** Even the setting for District 13 is different from Mockingjay due to the book being placed 75 years prior and a majority of the civilization being above ground. Thu, 19 Apr 2012 01:54:03 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1300233 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1300233 Dragonchilde Yeah, that's fanfiction. Even if you're not using the characters from the books, when you use the setting, you're writing fanfic. :) Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:50:59 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1328934 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1328934 Dawnheart yeah. are you asking if that's plagiarizing? because its not. the way you develop your story doesn't have to be unique, even though if you have your own characters then your plot development automatically becomes unique, because you don't have 3 wizard friends who have to learn their way around a magical school, do you? Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:02:01 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331802 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331802 Dawnheart i think that plot sounds really awesome! and i haven't heard of anything like that. i think the scene that you describe is plagiarism. :P Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:03:00 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331807 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331807 Dawnheart yeah i love fanfiction.net. :) it's where i play around with other people's characters because i love them so much and have no inspiration for my own suck-ish story. :P and i agree... if its the exact same setting then its fanfiction. :) but you should still write it though, even though its not "officially" publishable (if you know what i mean--i dont count publishing on fanfiction.net or figment.com as officially publishable) it still sounds like a great story! :D maybe you'll be inspired to write something from your own imagination after it! :D but really fanfiction isn't something to be looked down upon, some people really like it. :) some people don't care about getting contracts from big companies which i think is perfectly ok. we can all write in our own ways! (sorry for getting philosophical-ish on you guys) :P Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:06:34 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331821 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1331821 Cheesypriestess Yes, but the romance wasn't the ENTIRE plot. They had other stuff going on. Fri, 04 May 2012 23:18:16 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342847 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342847 Cheesypriestess Though I suppose I'm not quite sure what you meant, so if I got the wrong idea, I apologize. Fri, 04 May 2012 23:19:33 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342848 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342848 Cheesypriestess The original idea didn't make me think of Wall-E at all. Fri, 04 May 2012 23:24:29 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342852 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342852 Cheesypriestess Sometimes I want to write a 'school for magic' story just to show that I can do it and be different from J. K. Rowling. Fri, 04 May 2012 23:45:56 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1342889 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1342889 Cheesypriestess I also sometimes wonder about one of my stories, because it's inspired by Warrior Cats. I have a land of cats that are completely wild that I refer to as rogues and I plan to have them re-civilized sort of later. But it's different enough now that I don't worry that much. And Warriors wasn't really fantasy, and my story sort of is. Fri, 04 May 2012 23:48:22 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1342893 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1342893 keolah I wasn't talking about Twilight (or even Star Wars) I was talking about _the romance genre_, as I said. You know, all the books with flowery titles and women hanging off half-naked men on the cover that my grandmother loves to read for some reason? Fri, 04 May 2012 23:51:47 +0100 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342897 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-101/threads/678?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1342897