Moderator Note: Please note that this is not a debate thread. This is a writing group for Pro-Lifewriters. If you should see any attempts to stir a debate in this thread, please report them to the moderators.
Hi, everyone! I more intended this thread to be for discussions about pro-lifer activities and our stories, instead of debates. While I really like debates, I'm worried they're going to get out of hand and/or take over the thread. Maybe it would be better if there was a separate thread for debates. Thank you for understanding!
LocationRocking back and forth in a corner while drinking milk ~*P
JoinedOctober 16, 2010
Posts1428
Hey guys! *hugs thread* I like everybody on here. Like, even more than I already did. I love all NaNoers, but you guys are special. Wait, everyone's special. But no, that's another way of saying nobody is which I totally don't mean, YOU'RE ALL SPECIAL AND I LOVE YOU.
Well, I didn't think that I was writing anything remotely pro life, since it's an urban fantasy story set at college. BUT, a major plot point is the power of total selflessness. So that ties in. (it ties in more, but I don't want to give away the end!)
Also, I've become inspired lately by the stage! I've never been a 'drama kid' or good at writing scripts, but I recently had to go see a live play production for an English class, and fell in love with the medium. And I'm thinking of writing a pro-life play. :)
None of my stories are necessarily pro-life, but I refuse to have an adult character (even a villain) who kills children so, in a way, my characters are pro-life. :P I'm a little nervous about admitting that I'm pro-life because then people start acting hostile and telling me that I'm somehow against human rights. I don't understand where people get that idea. How is wanting children to have a chance to live, and grow, and make their own choices against human rights? It's the other way around! Sorry for the rant.
Glad to see this thread was remade again. XD I'm very amused to see there's an opposing "Pro-choice Writers" out there too.
I'd like to emphasize the importance of writing in combating the culture of death, and building a new culture of life. This requires, obviously, a total cultural shift. And the best way to achieve this is through beauty, through artistic "sub-creation" (to borrow the phrase coined by Tolkien). We have to affect an entire cultural upheaval and renewal. John Paul II, as he said to the United Nations, was in great hopes for a "new springtime of the human spirit" to take place in this century. So - pro-life writers, write! This doesn't mean you have to write books that somehow have an underlying theme that pushes forth the Pro-life agenda. It means you write GOOD books, beautiful books, books the demonstrate the creative genius of the human person, that show the beauty and dignity of every human life. The good rule of thumb is - show, don't tell. SHOW the dignity and beauty and sacredness of every human life, of personhood, of the family, of marriage, of sexuality.
I think we're all loling about the dueling threads going on. Hasn't their been a pro-life thread for the past two NaNos, at least? I know we had one last year, but I feel like we had one the year before as well.
I completely agree on the need for more books (and art in general) that reflects a Culture of Life, which is one of the reasons I love this thread so much. Even if you aren't writing a "pro-life book," a pro-life author will express the value of life in their writing naturally and it warms my heart to see so many people doing that.
Yah, the pro-choice thread was a fun development this year... Though it does just downright confuse me how pro-lifers can be seen as anti human rights. We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really.... bad? But seriously. It's scary how far the rhetoric has taken the pro-abortion side. Even the name "pro-choice" isn't accurate.
Thanks for that point about combating the culture of death through writing! It's nice to see writers doing that in some small way here at NaNo. Keep it up!! ^_^
Yeah... I never got how robbing people of their lives and any opportunity for them to make choices in life is "pro-choice." If you aren't sure it's human, get it checked out by a doctor because an abnormal growth of cells is a tumour.
"We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really... bad?" This made me laugh out loud, because it's so true. Then I felt guilty about laughing at it. But, oh well... I love this thread.
I cannot believe I have never seen this thread before! It's so great to see this and to unite for Pro-Life because it's so important that people stand up for all the babies who can't stand up for themselves!
I thank God for all the mothers who have chosen life.
Lord Feanor, you said it well. I don't necessarily want to get into any political discussions, nor make politics a major part of my novel, but it is nice to be with others who feel the same way, and to offer support to each other.
Don't be intimidated by people who feel differently. Remind them that if it's about "choice" itself then the choice that they make should be value-neutral from their point of view. They should be just as happy when someone chooses life as they are when someone chooses abortion. If someone choosing life upsets them, then they aren't promoting choice, they're promoting abortion. And remind them that tolerance means acknowledging that people who think differently and make choices different from the ones they would make deserve respect just as much as those who agree with them. They tend to preach tolerance and choice and then practice intolerance and orthodoxy. Not that I would generalize. :)
Sorry, didn't mean to go on like that. I just hate that hypocrisy.
It is a subject that inspires ranting in me, I know. It offends me that there are people who actively deny the right to live to the most defenseless members of the human race and then claim that doing so is "compassionate," or a "basic human right." So, I sympathize. Heaven knows I want to go on and on often enough... XD
Here's a question for all you fabulous pro-life writers here: do you think engaging people in abortion debates over the internet is worth it? Is it something you see as valuable in the fight against the culture of death? Why or why not?
I ask this because I've been ruminating about it a lot lately. I do like to debate this with anyone who wants to, but I'm conflicted about the value of internet debates. Thoughts?
No, it's not worth the energy. Pray for them instead. If you feel moved to do something, pray outside your local abortion clinic. (Consult with your local pro-life group as there are certain legal requirements and in fact there is an organized prayer protest going on this month.)
Seriously, the people who write in "pro-choice" "debates" online are not interested in choice or debate. They're interested in promoting abortion as a means of birth control, and rejecting alternative choices. They will not engage with you on any honest or fair level. They will attack you instead, because that is the tactic of resort for those whose arguments do not stand up to rigorous debate.
Above all, don't condemn. Mothers and fathers who have "chosen" abortion are themselves victims. They deserve compassion and empathy, and don't need to be preached at. They are hurting, and they are silent, because they are afraid to speak up. Support them.
And when you have a quiet moment, meditate and pray about what identity politics has done to the U.S. And pray for us all.
Sorry, I haven't (and won't) read the "pro-choice" thread. So let this thread be about supporting each other, not defining ourselves in anyone else's terms.
I don't debate it at all because I know I get emotional and that doesn't do anything other than make me stressed out. I did once admit to a friend of mine that I was pro-life and our conversation remained calm, but that was because he has good enough self esteem that he doesn't mind if other people have a different opinion than him. Other people I've met usually go on a tirade against my opinion if I admit it to them and I end up upset. I admit I have a problem where I do the same thing sometimes because I get reminded and then upset. I guess I'm just tired of keeping my opinion hidden out of fear. It probably doesn't look like it (sorry again for the rant), but I don't actually mind when people have different opinions... so long as the conversation remains calm.... which it rarely does.
I think it's probably somewhat less than productive (or really, not productive at all) for us to engage with the posters in the other thread directly, even if that takes the form of commenting on their comments in that thread in posts on this one. While debating abortion over the internet may sometimes be useful, I don't think it would be helpful in this case. At the very least, Jackalope_of_Evul is getting things off on the wrong foot. Even more wrong than the usual two that most people have.
As to the pro-choice/pro-abortion thing...I only use the label "pro-choice" when I'm directly engaged in a debate with someone. And even then I'm much more likely to use terms like "abortion proponent," "abortion supporter," or "abortion apologist." Because, when the brass tacks are gotten down to, they are defending abortion-on-demand as a morally, ethically, and legally acceptable action. That's pro-abortion any way it gets sliced, regardless of the labels preferred. And when people start running around with "anti-choice" and then getting upset about not being called their preferred label...yeah.
So...I suppose that's pretty much my thoughts on that. In other news, I am very much looking forward to when the writing buddies feature comes online so I can start sending y'all buddy requests. After chatting off and on with some of the folks here for a few years now, it's about time we started trying to beat each other's word counts! ;)
Commenting over here about things said on another thread is not any better than going over to comment on their thread, and it INVITES problems between the two threads, and is just asking for a debate.
Let this thread be FOR Pro Life writers... not against Pro Choice writers, or a place to complain about things being said in threads you disagree with.
If someone would like to debate, they are welcome to start a separate thread (probably in off topic) to do so, but I will warn you that such threads rarely remain respectful long, and there is rarely a point because I've never seen anyone's mind changed. Threads that get disrespectful and remain a consistent problem end up being closed.
I am SO SORRY!! Definitely should have realized the implications of what I was doing. Thanks for letting this thread stay here, and again, I apologize!
Pro-Life Writers
Hi! This is the new thread on the new site.
Moderator Note: Please note that this is not a debate thread. This is a writing group for Pro-Lifewriters. If you should see any attempts to stir a debate in this thread, please report them to the moderators.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Hi, everyone! I more intended this thread to be for discussions about pro-lifer activities and our stories, instead of debates. While I really like debates, I'm worried they're going to get out of hand and/or take over the thread. Maybe it would be better if there was a separate thread for debates. Thank you for understanding!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Hello!
Wow. Can't say I'm a fan of the look of the new forums. The rest of the site's pretty awesome, but this is...not my favorite ever.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
"Pro-Life Writers"? Oh, yes. This is me. =) Hello!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Represent!! :) Hello all!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Hey there! :D Count me in.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Hey guys! *hugs thread* I like everybody on here. Like, even more than I already did. I love all NaNoers, but you guys are special. Wait, everyone's special. But no, that's another way of saying nobody is which I totally don't mean, YOU'RE ALL SPECIAL AND I LOVE YOU.
There.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Oh yea! Pro-Life= win. :)
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Indeed.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Nice to be here!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Hello all! :) Nice to be here!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Okay, so...what are we all writing?
Mine is not a strictly "pro-life" book. I am planning, so far, a Zorro novel, so we'll see how that goes.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Zorro novel sounds awesome!! Have fun with it!
Well, I didn't think that I was writing anything remotely pro life, since it's an urban fantasy story set at college. BUT, a major plot point is the power of total selflessness. So that ties in. (it ties in more, but I don't want to give away the end!)
Also, I've become inspired lately by the stage! I've never been a 'drama kid' or good at writing scripts, but I recently had to go see a live play production for an English class, and fell in love with the medium. And I'm thinking of writing a pro-life play. :)
Re: Pro-Life Writers
None of my stories are necessarily pro-life, but I refuse to have an adult character (even a villain) who kills children so, in a way, my characters are pro-life. :P
I'm a little nervous about admitting that I'm pro-life because then people start acting hostile and telling me that I'm somehow against human rights. I don't understand where people get that idea. How is wanting children to have a chance to live, and grow, and make their own choices against human rights? It's the other way around!
Sorry for the rant.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Glad to see this thread was remade again. XD I'm very amused to see there's an opposing "Pro-choice Writers" out there too.
I'd like to emphasize the importance of writing in combating the culture of death, and building a new culture of life. This requires, obviously, a total cultural shift. And the best way to achieve this is through beauty, through artistic "sub-creation" (to borrow the phrase coined by Tolkien). We have to affect an entire cultural upheaval and renewal. John Paul II, as he said to the United Nations, was in great hopes for a "new springtime of the human spirit" to take place in this century. So - pro-life writers, write! This doesn't mean you have to write books that somehow have an underlying theme that pushes forth the Pro-life agenda. It means you write GOOD books, beautiful books, books the demonstrate the creative genius of the human person, that show the beauty and dignity of every human life. The good rule of thumb is - show, don't tell. SHOW the dignity and beauty and sacredness of every human life, of personhood, of the family, of marriage, of sexuality.
Good luck and God bless!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I think we're all loling about the dueling threads going on. Hasn't their been a pro-life thread for the past two NaNos, at least? I know we had one last year, but I feel like we had one the year before as well.
I completely agree on the need for more books (and art in general) that reflects a Culture of Life, which is one of the reasons I love this thread so much. Even if you aren't writing a "pro-life book," a pro-life author will express the value of life in their writing naturally and it warms my heart to see so many people doing that.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Yah, the pro-choice thread was a fun development this year... Though it does just downright confuse me how pro-lifers can be seen as anti human rights. We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really.... bad? But seriously. It's scary how far the rhetoric has taken the pro-abortion side. Even the name "pro-choice" isn't accurate.
Thanks for that point about combating the culture of death through writing! It's nice to see writers doing that in some small way here at NaNo. Keep it up!! ^_^
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I'm pretty sure there was a pro-choice thread last year as well.
I'd say "pro-choice" is as accurate as "pro-life", really ;)
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Sorry about that; I honestly didn't know there was a pro-choice thread last year! As far as names go... to each her own. Let's leave it there. :)
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Yeah... I never got how robbing people of their lives and any opportunity for them to make choices in life is "pro-choice."
If you aren't sure it's human, get it checked out by a doctor because an abnormal growth of cells is a tumour.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
"We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really... bad?"
This made me laugh out loud, because it's so true. Then I felt guilty about laughing at it. But, oh well...
I love this thread.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I cannot believe I have never seen this thread before! It's so great to see this and to unite for Pro-Life because it's so important that people stand up for all the babies who can't stand up for themselves!
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Whoo! Pro-Life represent! :D :D
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I thank God for all the mothers who have chosen life.
Lord Feanor, you said it well. I don't necessarily want to get into any political discussions, nor make politics a major part of my novel, but it is nice to be with others who feel the same way, and to offer support to each other.
Don't be intimidated by people who feel differently. Remind them that if it's about "choice" itself then the choice that they make should be value-neutral from their point of view. They should be just as happy when someone chooses life as they are when someone chooses abortion. If someone choosing life upsets them, then they aren't promoting choice, they're promoting abortion. And remind them that tolerance means acknowledging that people who think differently and make choices different from the ones they would make deserve respect just as much as those who agree with them. They tend to preach tolerance and choice and then practice intolerance and orthodoxy. Not that I would generalize. :)
Sorry, didn't mean to go on like that. I just hate that hypocrisy.
Pray for them.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
It is a subject that inspires ranting in me, I know. It offends me that there are people who actively deny the right to live to the most defenseless members of the human race and then claim that doing so is "compassionate," or a "basic human right." So, I sympathize. Heaven knows I want to go on and on often enough... XD
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Here's a question for all you fabulous pro-life writers here: do you think engaging people in abortion debates over the internet is worth it? Is it something you see as valuable in the fight against the culture of death? Why or why not?
I ask this because I've been ruminating about it a lot lately. I do like to debate this with anyone who wants to, but I'm conflicted about the value of internet debates. Thoughts?
Re: Pro-Life Writers
No, it's not worth the energy. Pray for them instead. If you feel moved to do something, pray outside your local abortion clinic. (Consult with your local pro-life group as there are certain legal requirements and in fact there is an organized prayer protest going on this month.)
Seriously, the people who write in "pro-choice" "debates" online are not interested in choice or debate. They're interested in promoting abortion as a means of birth control, and rejecting alternative choices. They will not engage with you on any honest or fair level. They will attack you instead, because that is the tactic of resort for those whose arguments do not stand up to rigorous debate.
Above all, don't condemn. Mothers and fathers who have "chosen" abortion are themselves victims. They deserve compassion and empathy, and don't need to be preached at. They are hurting, and they are silent, because they are afraid to speak up. Support them.
And when you have a quiet moment, meditate and pray about what identity politics has done to the U.S. And pray for us all.
Sorry, I haven't (and won't) read the "pro-choice" thread. So let this thread be about supporting each other, not defining ourselves in anyone else's terms.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I don't debate it at all because I know I get emotional and that doesn't do anything other than make me stressed out.
I did once admit to a friend of mine that I was pro-life and our conversation remained calm, but that was because he has good enough self esteem that he doesn't mind if other people have a different opinion than him. Other people I've met usually go on a tirade against my opinion if I admit it to them and I end up upset. I admit I have a problem where I do the same thing sometimes because I get reminded and then upset. I guess I'm just tired of keeping my opinion hidden out of fear.
It probably doesn't look like it (sorry again for the rant), but I don't actually mind when people have different opinions... so long as the conversation remains calm.... which it rarely does.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
[Removed by Moderator]
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I think it's probably somewhat less than productive (or really, not productive at all) for us to engage with the posters in the other thread directly, even if that takes the form of commenting on their comments in that thread in posts on this one. While debating abortion over the internet may sometimes be useful, I don't think it would be helpful in this case. At the very least, Jackalope_of_Evul is getting things off on the wrong foot. Even more wrong than the usual two that most people have.
As to the pro-choice/pro-abortion thing...I only use the label "pro-choice" when I'm directly engaged in a debate with someone. And even then I'm much more likely to use terms like "abortion proponent," "abortion supporter," or "abortion apologist." Because, when the brass tacks are gotten down to, they are defending abortion-on-demand as a morally, ethically, and legally acceptable action. That's pro-abortion any way it gets sliced, regardless of the labels preferred. And when people start running around with "anti-choice" and then getting upset about not being called their preferred label...yeah.
So...I suppose that's pretty much my thoughts on that. In other news, I am very much looking forward to when the writing buddies feature comes online so I can start sending y'all buddy requests. After chatting off and on with some of the folks here for a few years now, it's about time we started trying to beat each other's word counts! ;)
Re: Pro-Life Writers
Commenting over here about things said on another thread is not any better than going over to comment on their thread, and it INVITES problems between the two threads, and is just asking for a debate.
Let this thread be FOR Pro Life writers... not against Pro Choice writers, or a place to complain about things being said in threads you disagree with.
If someone would like to debate, they are welcome to start a separate thread (probably in off topic) to do so, but I will warn you that such threads rarely remain respectful long, and there is rarely a point because I've never seen anyone's mind changed. Threads that get disrespectful and remain a consistent problem end up being closed.
Re: Pro-Life Writers
I am SO SORRY!! Definitely should have realized the implications of what I was doing. Thanks for letting this thread stay here, and again, I apologize!