Pro-Life Writers http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172 MarcyT Hi! This is the new thread on the new site. <strong>Moderator Note: Please note that this is not a debate thread. This is a writing group for Pro-Lifewriters. If you should see any attempts to stir a debate in this thread, please report them to the moderators.</strong> Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:15:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_4438 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_4438 KelinciHutan Hello! Wow. Can't say I'm a fan of the look of the new forums. The rest of the site's pretty awesome, but this is...not my favorite ever. Tue, 11 Oct 2011 08:20:33 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_5630 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_5630 Silvia Grace "Pro-Life Writers"? Oh, yes. This is me. =) Hello! Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:38:16 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_9455 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_9455 SaxonChilde Represent!! :) Hello all! Tue, 11 Oct 2011 13:25:30 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_10307 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_10307 lost in reverie Hey there! :D Count me in. Tue, 11 Oct 2011 14:24:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_11343 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_11343 BlueGonfalon Hey guys! *hugs thread* I like everybody on here. Like, even more than I already did. I love all NaNoers, but you guys are special. Wait, everyone's special. But no, that's another way of saying nobody is which I totally don't mean, YOU'RE ALL SPECIAL AND I LOVE YOU. There. Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:09:31 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_12165 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_12165 ClueBadger24601 Oh yea! Pro-Life= win. :) Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:19:07 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_16779 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_16779 Aneith Indeed. Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:27:45 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_16937 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_16937 laura1814 Nice to be here! Wed, 12 Oct 2011 02:27:19 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_23538 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_23538 MaccaGirl90 Hello all! :) Nice to be here! Wed, 12 Oct 2011 02:44:39 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_23665 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_23665 KelinciHutan Okay, so...what are we all writing? Mine is not a strictly "pro-life" book. I am planning, so far, a Zorro novel, so we'll see how that goes. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 05:30:29 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_24745 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_24745 SaxonChilde Zorro novel sounds awesome!! Have fun with it! Well, I didn't think that I was writing anything remotely pro life, since it's an urban fantasy story set at college. BUT, a major plot point is the power of total selflessness. So that ties in. (it ties in more, but I don't want to give away the end!) Also, I've become inspired lately by the stage! I've never been a 'drama kid' or good at writing scripts, but I recently had to go see a live play production for an English class, and fell in love with the medium. And I'm thinking of writing a pro-life play. :) Wed, 12 Oct 2011 12:47:54 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_29072 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_29072 Aneith None of my stories are necessarily pro-life, but I refuse to have an adult character (even a villain) who kills children so, in a way, my characters are pro-life. :P I'm a little nervous about admitting that I'm pro-life because then people start acting hostile and telling me that I'm somehow against human rights. I don't understand where people get that idea. How is wanting children to have a chance to live, and grow, and make their own choices against human rights? It's the other way around! Sorry for the rant. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:11:32 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_32129 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_32129 LordFeanor Glad to see this thread was remade again. XD I'm very amused to see there's an opposing "Pro-choice Writers" out there too. I'd like to emphasize the importance of writing in combating the culture of death, and building a new culture of life. This requires, obviously, a total cultural shift. And the best way to achieve this is through beauty, through artistic "sub-creation" (to borrow the phrase coined by Tolkien). We have to affect an entire cultural upheaval and renewal. John Paul II, as he said to the United Nations, was in great hopes for a "new springtime of the human spirit" to take place in this century. So - pro-life writers, write! This doesn't mean you have to write books that somehow have an underlying theme that pushes forth the Pro-life agenda. It means you write GOOD books, beautiful books, books the demonstrate the creative genius of the human person, that show the beauty and dignity of every human life. The good rule of thumb is - show, don't tell. SHOW the dignity and beauty and sacredness of every human life, of personhood, of the family, of marriage, of sexuality. Good luck and God bless! Wed, 12 Oct 2011 16:23:06 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_32335 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_32335 KelinciHutan I think we're all loling about the dueling threads going on. Hasn't their been a pro-life thread for the past two NaNos, at least? I know we had one last year, but I feel like we had one the year before as well. I completely agree on the need for more books (and art in general) that reflects a Culture of Life, which is one of the reasons I love this thread so much. Even if you aren't writing a "pro-life book," a pro-life author will express the value of life in their writing naturally and it warms my heart to see so many people doing that. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 17:14:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_33096 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_33096 SaxonChilde Yah, the pro-choice thread was a fun development this year... Though it does just downright confuse me how pro-lifers can be seen as anti human rights. We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really.... bad? But seriously. It's scary how far the rhetoric has taken the pro-abortion side. Even the name "pro-choice" isn't accurate. Thanks for that point about combating the culture of death through writing! It's nice to see writers doing that in some small way here at NaNo. Keep it up!! ^_^ Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:26:20 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_37796 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_37796 Nixie-chan I cannot believe I have never seen this thread before! It's so great to see this and to unite for Pro-Life because it's so important that people stand up for all the babies who can't stand up for themselves! Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:44:50 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38069 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38069 Cadaverine I'm pretty sure there was a pro-choice thread last year as well. I'd say "pro-choice" is as accurate as "pro-life", really ;) Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:47:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38110 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38110 novelgirl4991 Whoo! Pro-Life represent! :D :D Wed, 12 Oct 2011 23:37:16 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38775 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38775 laura1814 I thank God for all the mothers who have chosen life. Lord Feanor, you said it well. I don't necessarily want to get into any political discussions, nor make politics a major part of my novel, but it is nice to be with others who feel the same way, and to offer support to each other. Don't be intimidated by people who feel differently. Remind them that if it's about "choice" itself then the choice that they make should be value-neutral from their point of view. They should be just as happy when someone chooses life as they are when someone chooses abortion. If someone choosing life upsets them, then they aren't promoting choice, they're promoting abortion. And remind them that tolerance means acknowledging that people who think differently and make choices different from the ones they would make deserve respect just as much as those who agree with them. They tend to preach tolerance and choice and then practice intolerance and orthodoxy. Not that I would generalize. :) Sorry, didn't mean to go on like that. I just hate that hypocrisy. Pray for them. Wed, 12 Oct 2011 23:55:33 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38995 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_38995 KelinciHutan It is a subject that inspires ranting in me, I know. It offends me that there are people who actively deny the right to live to the most defenseless members of the human race and then claim that doing so is "compassionate," or a "basic human right." So, I sympathize. Heaven knows I want to go on and on often enough... XD Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:06:30 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_42187 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_42187 SaxonChilde Sorry about that; I honestly didn't know there was a pro-choice thread last year! As far as names go... to each her own. Let's leave it there. :) Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:35:19 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44235 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44235 SaxonChilde Here's a question for all you fabulous pro-life writers here: do you think engaging people in abortion debates over the internet is worth it? Is it something you see as valuable in the fight against the culture of death? Why or why not? I ask this because I've been ruminating about it a lot lately. I do like to debate this with anyone who wants to, but I'm conflicted about the value of internet debates. Thoughts? Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:37:29 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44253 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44253 SaxonChilde [Removed by Moderator] Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:47:30 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44370 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44370 KelinciHutan I think it's probably somewhat less than productive (or really, not productive at all) for us to engage with the posters in the other thread directly, even if that takes the form of commenting on their comments in that thread in posts on this one. While debating abortion over the internet may sometimes be useful, I don't think it would be helpful in this case. At the very least, Jackalope_of_Evul is getting things off on the wrong foot. Even more wrong than the usual two that most people have. As to the pro-choice/pro-abortion thing...I only use the label "pro-choice" when I'm directly engaged in a debate with someone. And even then I'm much more likely to use terms like "abortion proponent," "abortion supporter," or "abortion apologist." Because, when the brass tacks are gotten down to, they are defending abortion-on-demand as a morally, ethically, and legally acceptable action. That's pro-abortion any way it gets sliced, regardless of the labels preferred. And when people start running around with "anti-choice" and then getting upset about not being called <em>their</em> preferred label...yeah. So...I suppose that's pretty much my thoughts on that. In other news, I am very much looking forward to when the writing buddies feature comes online so I can start sending y'all buddy requests. After chatting off and on with some of the folks here for a few years now, it's about time we started trying to beat each other's word counts! ;) Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:07:23 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44622 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44622 Dragonchilde Commenting over here about things said on another thread is not any better than going over to comment on their thread, and it INVITES problems between the two threads, and is just asking for a debate. Let this thread be FOR Pro Life writers... not against Pro Choice writers, or a place to complain about things being said in threads you disagree with. If someone would like to debate, they are welcome to start a separate thread (probably in off topic) to do so, but I will warn you that such threads rarely remain respectful long, and there is rarely a point because I've never seen anyone's mind changed. Threads that get disrespectful and remain a consistent problem end up being closed. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:31:37 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44914 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_44914 SaxonChilde I am SO SORRY!! Definitely should have realized the implications of what I was doing. Thanks for letting this thread stay here, and again, I apologize! Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:00:58 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_45245 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_45245 Aneith Yeah... I never got how robbing people of their lives and any opportunity for them to make choices in life is "pro-choice." If you aren't sure it's human, get it checked out by a doctor because an abnormal growth of cells is a tumour. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:24:12 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50028 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50028 laura1814 No, it's not worth the energy. Pray for them instead. If you feel moved to do something, pray outside your local abortion clinic. (Consult with your local pro-life group as there are certain legal requirements and in fact there is an organized prayer protest going on this month.) Seriously, the people who write in "pro-choice" "debates" online are not interested in choice or debate. They're interested in promoting abortion as a means of birth control, and rejecting alternative choices. They will not engage with you on any honest or fair level. They will attack you instead, because that is the tactic of resort for those whose arguments do not stand up to rigorous debate. Above all, don't condemn. Mothers and fathers who have "chosen" abortion are themselves victims. They deserve compassion and empathy, and don't need to be preached at. They are hurting, and they are silent, because they are afraid to speak up. Support them. And when you have a quiet moment, meditate and pray about what identity politics has done to the U.S. And pray for us all. Sorry, I haven't (and won't) read the "pro-choice" thread. So let this thread be about supporting each other, not defining ourselves in anyone else's terms. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:49:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50328 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50328 Aneith I don't debate it at all because I know I get emotional and that doesn't do anything other than make me stressed out. I did once admit to a friend of mine that I was pro-life and our conversation remained calm, but that was because he has good enough self esteem that he doesn't mind if other people have a different opinion than him. Other people I've met usually go on a tirade against my opinion if I admit it to them and I end up upset. I admit I have a problem where I do the same thing sometimes because I get reminded and then upset. I guess I'm just tired of keeping my opinion hidden out of fear. It probably doesn't look like it (sorry again for the rant), but I don't actually mind when people have different opinions... so long as the conversation remains calm.... which it rarely does. Thu, 13 Oct 2011 20:20:25 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50697 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_50697 brianarants Personally, I'm not into debates or things like abortion, politics, or religion being up on threads on sites like this one. It just kind of divides people and then we may look at other individuals differently because of their perspective on things. But I am Pro-life. Just wanted to say that. ;] Fri, 14 Oct 2011 08:03:52 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_55891 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_55891 novelgirl4991 So, y'all should check out our 'promotional video' for a right to life group I'm in. It's a teen division, and we filmed this video in about three hours, then it took me about 2 days to edit it. :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Is0LuE91SI Fri, 14 Oct 2011 15:01:37 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_60013 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_60013 BlueGonfalon @novelgirl4991: Well done! More people need to do stuff like that. I thought I'd let y'all know about the Pro-Life day of Silent Solidarity. <a href="http://www.silentday.org/faq.php" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is their website, specifically their FAQ page. Basically, you remain silent, or as silent as you can, for a whole day; this Tuesday, October 18th. I will be at my Co-op this day...so I'll see how this goes. =D Fri, 14 Oct 2011 15:10:24 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_60134 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_60134 KelinciHutan In the spirit of providing encouraging links, there is a video from Students for Life of America that is worth watching. It's a bit long (almost six minutes), but the gist of it is fairly self-explanatory and I highly recommend watching the whole thing. <a href="www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjq2LK7Wqzw" rel="nofollow">The Tide Is Turning</a> Sat, 15 Oct 2011 07:12:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_68274 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_68274 MarcyT Hi! I was gone for a while because I was sick. I felt kind of funny, since I started the thread and then sort of abandoned it, but I'm feeling better and am back now. I didn't set out to put anything pro-life in my novel, but it fit in so well. One of my characters has Post Abortion Syndrome. For over a year, I've wanted to write a story about someone with PAS, but I could never seem to get it to work. I also am currently editing a pro-life screenplay I wrote this summer about euthanasia. Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:14:44 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_69897 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_69897 LordFeanor [quote]I think we're all loling about the dueling threads going on. Hasn't their been a pro-life thread for the past two NaNos, at least? I know we had one last year, but I feel like we had one the year before as well.[/quote] Yeah I started one a few years ago and it's gone on from there. :D Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:01:09 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_70366 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_70366 LordFeanor [quote]Here's a question for all you fabulous pro-life writers here: do you think engaging people in abortion debates over the internet is worth it? Is it something you see as valuable in the fight against the culture of death? Why or why not? [/quote] As this thread has sparked many debates in the past, I would say that yeah ultimately it's worth it to engage people in debates. But generally people won't be convinced, and it can lead to a waste of time. Whether or not it convinces anyone, it's good to have a multitude of arguments for the pro-life position on the internet. Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:03:43 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_70397 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_70397 October Rose Checking in! :) My husband and I just went to a Pro-Life benefit dinner this week. It was pretty cool since we're expecting our first child ... we just heard the heartbeat two weeks ago. It was so amazing!! Sometimes I completely forget that I have a new life growing inside of me, already moving around on his or her own even though I can't feel it yet. It's mind-boggling! Sat, 15 Oct 2011 20:52:02 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_76310 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_76310 bikegirl115 "We basically say: if you know it's a human, don't kill it! If you aren't sure it's a human, don't kill it! And that's really... bad?" This made me laugh out loud, because it's so true. Then I felt guilty about laughing at it. But, oh well... I love this thread. Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:32:42 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_77475 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_77475 Arindilwen Checking in! Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:47:00 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_77618 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_77618 KelinciHutan Congratulations! That's absolutely awesome. XD Sat, 15 Oct 2011 23:32:42 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_78068 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_78068 MarcyT I think it can be worth it and is definitely good practice. Online debate was one of my first training things. However, it can also become nasty and repetitive. I did not appreciate being sworn at, and I think having a moderator might help. (I've never debated on here, but if I ever go back, I'd probably do it here, because the moderators monitor debate threads and try to keep down the temper explosions.) Still, I'm glad I was on there because it taught me to hang in there, no matter what, and I learned a lot of arguments and counter-arguments. Sun, 16 Oct 2011 06:24:59 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_80377 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_80377 MarcyT Congratulations! Sun, 16 Oct 2011 06:29:19 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_80396 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_80396 KelinciHutan I don't know what websites you like, but a few of my favorite apologetics sites are <a href="http://www.abort73.com/" rel="nofollow">Abort73</a> (of course), <a href="http://www.prolifetraining.com/" rel="nofollow">Scott Klusendorf's Life Training Institute</a>, and <a href="http://www.prolifepodcast.net" rel="nofollow">Life Report</a>. Abort73 is mostly about good pro-life arguments, LTI debunks bad abortion apologetics, and Life Report does a little of both along with critiquing the bad pro-life arguments they encounter and suggesting better ones to use in those situations. So amongst the three of them you get a bit of everything. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:54:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_94117 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_94117 October Rose Thanks for the congrats! We are pretty excited. :) There is this AWESOME website for the Endowment for Human Development (www.ehd.org) and if you go to the "Movie Theater" on the left sidebar, the videos there are amazing ... especially starting at 4-6 weeks, when they actually have a camera in the womb with the embryo. I highly recommend watching ... it just leaves you in a state of awe about the miracle of life. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:55:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_95076 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_95076 MarcyT Thank you! I really like Abort73. I'll have to check out the other two. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 10:33:07 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_95477 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_95477 skatepixie Congrats! :-) Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:13:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_97187 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_97187 skatepixie Just checking in as another pro-life writer on board. :-) While I think there are times and places for online debate about abortion -- I personally don't think the NaNoWriMo forums is the place I want to do it. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:14:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_97201 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_97201 BlueGonfalon WOW! Congrats October Rose! That is amazing! Have you started thinking of names yet? ^__^ Hey Skatepixie! I love your avatar! Is that you? Because it's gorgeous! =D Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:34:09 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98128 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98128 skatepixie Sorry, this wasn't meant to be a threaded reply. Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:41:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98235 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98235 skatepixie Thanks! Yes, it is me. :-) Mon, 17 Oct 2011 14:41:14 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98240 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_98240 IrishIris Wishing you all a happy Pro-Life day of Silent Solidarity! Did anyone else here give up their voices today? Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:09:25 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_114533 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_114533 KelinciHutan For me, there wasn't much point. I didn't go anywhere today and everyone I live with is pro-life (hooray!). However, I am glad to hear you had a chance to participate. I always seem to have bad timing for these sorts of things. :( Tue, 18 Oct 2011 17:29:51 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_114869 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_114869 LordFeanor I wasn't able to today, for a number of reasons, so I figured I might as well do it tomorrow. Better late than never. Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:05:48 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_117913 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_117913 Masked Maiden Another pro-life writer checking in! :) Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:30:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119097 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119097 October Rose Thanks! ^_^ We have some girls' names, not many boys ... but we both have a feeling it's a girl ... we'll find out for sure in a couple of weeks! Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:46:01 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119333 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119333 October Rose I teach a 2.5 hour class on Tuesdays, so I couldn't participate this year. :( Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:46:22 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119339 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_119339 Jordan9 Heya, 21 year old Canadian pro-lifer checking in. I don't plan on (consciously, anyway) including pro-life leanings in my novel, though they might be found. It's going to be a pretty dark and violent tale, but sometimes recoiling from brutality, even fictional, is an initial step toward a pro-life position. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:16:22 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_123641 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_123641 Laura E. Andrews Hello, all! I am definitely pro-life. I am the eldest of ten children :D Actually, I'm thinking about writing a futuristic sci-fi after NaNoWriMo about a planet where there are forced abortions. I've read about how in China, the one-child policy is often enforced through abortion. It makes me sad, angry, and sick. Their orphanages are filled with abandoned baby girls :`( I've read in comments on news articles where people voice their opinions that America should also have a one or two child policy, and that 'religious fanatics' should be sterilized and not allowed to have children. That's America for us! "Where at least I know I'm free." Free to do what? Abort our children? Leave them to the government to raise and indoctrinate? Smoke pot (or whatever drug they just made legal)? Get drunk? I want to be free to have as many children as God gives me, and to home school them, and to love and care for them. The government, and a large number of the people in this country, would take that freedom away in an instant if they could. Good grief! A parent with a driver's license can't even teach their own child how drive: a certified teacher has to do it! Ok, sorry about the rant. It actually wasn't much about pro-life, but it was about freedom in general. Lots of women are pressured into abortion by boyfriends, husbands, or parents, or fear, or shame. And people act like the problem is the child. No, the problem is rampant fornication. People need to stop messing around with things that are very serious! Marriage is the only legitimate context for having children, but everyone seems to think that it's not, that we can just do whatever we want and we'll be fine. Get rid of the evidence (the child) and everything will be rosy and back to normal. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:00:15 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_124781 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_124781 KelinciHutan I understand they're kind of rough on pro-lifers in Canada. Is that the case, or do we just hear all the worst news? Wed, 19 Oct 2011 10:49:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_125364 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_125364 KelinciHutan "We" being my super-secret, I-didn't-reread-this-post-at-all-before-pushing-Submit code for "people in the United States." My kingdom for an edit button. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:00:18 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_125508 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_125508 skatepixie Some people feel so threatened by large families. I'll never get why, but then I'm a traditional Catholic, so there's a lot of large families in our midst. Small families are actually odd to me, even though I grew up in one and I am infertile so we are adopting. Russia, where we are adopting from, has such a strong culture of death right now. It's sad. The average woman has multiple abortions, and many, many children are in state care. :-( The only thing I disagree with you on is driver training. I don't want the current crop of idiot California drivers teaching their kids to drive. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 13:30:45 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_127646 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_127646 beanza3 Hey... I'm fencing it, so it seemed right to post a hey on both threads! :D I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice politically. Meaning: I don't like abortions, don't intend to have them, but on the political side of the issue, fetus =/= baby (scientifically) and there's a seperation of state and church in America. What one religion says should never rule our government. :D And I agree on the driving issue... I don't want my Dad to teach me how to drive... and he's a cop! :D A Certified teacher is much better... Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:14:22 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_132913 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_132913 KelinciHutan Oh, this isn't a debate thread, or else I would totally take you up on the fetus/baby thing <em>and</em> the religion thing. However, Dragonchilde has enough on her plate, so I will instead invite you to NaNoMail me if you'd care to get into it. If not, that's totally cool too, and welcome to the thread. :) Wed, 19 Oct 2011 19:17:53 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_132969 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_132969 Aneith I find it kind of rough, but that may just be me. I don't know of any other pro-lifers, my son's grandparents tried to push me into having an abortion (they have never apologized and now claim to love him which I don't get), my son's father considered having him aborted (he also never apologized and now claims to love which I really don't get), and I generally have to keep my mouth shut to avoid getting a barrage of insults and reasons why I'm "wrong." Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:02:23 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_133630 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_133630 MarcyT Welcome, Beanza3! Just like KelinciHutan said, if you want to talk about it, definitely NaNoMail me. :) Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:40:09 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_136117 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_136117 MarcyT Wow, you are amazing. I can't imagine dealing with that pressure and hurt. I know it's repetitive, but I just have to say again, you're amazing. Wed, 19 Oct 2011 22:41:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_136135 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_136135 skatepixie This. *hugs* Thu, 20 Oct 2011 01:08:38 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_137797 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_137797 KelinciHutan Wow. Just wow. Hugs to you and your son. Thu, 20 Oct 2011 08:16:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_140053 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_140053 Laura E. Andrews Well, what I meant was responsible parents who have a driver's license and haven't had it revoked for stupidity or drunk driving or something :D And who taught those parents to drive? The state certified instructors! Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:16:32 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_141183 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_141183 Laura E. Andrews Yep, I would take you up on it, too. If you'd like to, then PM me. Thu, 20 Oct 2011 14:12:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_144265 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_144265 KelinciHutan To get away from the not-debating, so that we don't get into any trouble, is anyone else having trouble with their pre-novel planning? I've got parts of an outline and then the ending and I have <em>no utter clue</em> how to get between the two. And, sadly, pantsing doesn't work for me. The last time I tried it, the results were utterly pathetic. Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:15:42 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_145154 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_145154 Laura E. Andrews Here's what I'm doing. I have parts of my plot, and all my characters and things. I bought a book not long ago about outlining, and the author says it takes a few months to do a good outline, but I'm going to do what I can. First of all, I'm making a sort of profile for each of my characters on WriteWay (Nano special demo). Basically, I write their age, height, hair and eye color, birth-year, importance to story, and who their family is. Then I write a paragraph about them before and just up to when the story begins. For the younger characters, I then make a list of the subjects they study. After that, I write a paragraph about their personality, including what their favorite subject is. After I get all my characters (even the minor ones) done, which hasn't happened yet, I'm going to go through and figure out the major points of the book. In other words, something simple, basically like this: John drives home from work. He finds out his son has been in a car accident. He goes to the hospital. Etc, etc. And do that right to the end of the story. That will probably take me to November, and hopefully during November I will be sort of filling in the blanks of the outline as I go along. Hope that helped! Thu, 20 Oct 2011 16:39:39 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_146362 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_146362 LordFeanor @ beanza3: Glad you're anti-abortion, but I think you misunderstand the issue. It's not a purely religious issue (though it is. Christ says of the little children: "Whatsoever you do to the least of these, my little ones, that you do unto me."). It's an ethical issue just as much as murder is an ethical issue. To say that Church and state are not compatible is not to say the morality and law are incompatible - laws are laws because morality is morality. Either abortion is wrong, and is a violation of the rights of human persons, and therefore must be condemned by any just state or it's not wrong. There's no middle ground here. If murder is wrong, then abortion is wrong and must be outlawed, because it is murder. Peace! :) Thu, 20 Oct 2011 21:08:11 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_150329 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_150329 SweetJuly Just dropping in to say that I couldn't have worded this better. Pro-life all the way! Thu, 20 Oct 2011 23:31:54 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_152217 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_152217 Aneith I would like to stand up for science here (because I love science) and point out that human fetus=human (scientifically and logically). Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:48:19 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_158774 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_158774 Aneith Also, it isn't a religious issue. It's a moral one. I'm not religious and I think killing children is wrong. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who isn't religious. Sorry for the double post. Darn missing edit button. Fri, 21 Oct 2011 13:56:14 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_158880 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_158880 gentillylace Dropping in to say that I am pro-life and a member of Feminists for Life. (Let no one say that "pro-life feminist" is an oxymoron!) Sat, 22 Oct 2011 06:22:28 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_168189 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_168189 October Rose The head of Feminists for Life gave a presentation on a nearby campus last fall. Personally I don't call myself feminist for a variety of reasons, BUT, her talk was pretty awesome. :) I think it's easily forgotten that while the most important issue is indeed a respect for life itself ... abortion is a horrible abuse of women. And if women were truly respected in our society, then abortion would be quite a rarity indeed. But if I get started, I'm liable to go on a rant about the Pill and all sorts of things, so I'll stop there. :) Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:21:44 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_173939 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_173939 KelinciHutan I was just talking with someone the other day who was claiming that <em>China</em> could not be criticized on women's rights issues! Because forced abortions, sex-selective abortions, and rampant infanticide of girl babies is such a shining example of feminism or something. It was a really, really depressing conversation. All of which to say, I totally sympathize with the urge to rant. Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:54:35 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_174347 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_174347 MarcyT I read a news article that said sex-selective abortions, forced abortions, and the one child policy made it better for girls (because their parents were getting them a better education and stuff). I almost got sick. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 05:13:48 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_195629 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_195629 KelinciHutan Where was that article... <a href="http://www.economist.com/node/15606229" rel="nofollow">The War on Baby Girls</a>. From the <em>Economist</em> last year. Lays out a lot of the "missing women" problem and related issues. We have so far to go in building a Culture of Life that sometimes it makes me want to cry. Mon, 24 Oct 2011 09:27:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_197403 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_197403 louellena I'm pro-life. In the past few years that has come to mean a whole lot more than simply "anti-abortion" due to obstetric "care" experience. Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:28:13 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_266380 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_266380 Meryle I hope it won't spark an argument that gets the moderators involved, so if you think it's safer, please NaNoMail me. I'm pro-choice myself, but I'd like to understand the other side better. I understand that one of the principles of pro-life movement is that the unborn is a person and has a right to live. I also understand it is considered moral to not kill anyone or anything that might end up being human. I've been wondering about a situation where a woman who already has several children learns that her pregnancy will be fatal to her and the child probably couldn't be saved by caesarean. This hypothetical woman has no relatives who could take care of her living children if she dies. On these circumstances, could an abortion be considered, because the unborn child would die either way and the living ones would also not suffer? Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:12:24 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_270110 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_270110 Aneith I think to answer that you'd have to ask someone who has been through it. I have heard of someone having it forced on her because one or both of them were likely to die and she wishes it hadn't been. It's not something to be taken lightly. Fri, 28 Oct 2011 22:15:44 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_274335 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_274335 HeavenlyPrincess Wow, I'm not the only pro-life writer? Sometimes I feel all alone... ;) This year I'm actually writing a book that has a "pro-life" theme. It's an allegory and can be summed up as "a person's a person no matter how small". Of course, that's not all it's about, but that's one theme. While I have you attention, I'd like to recommend http://jfaweb.org Justice For All offers an AMAZING training called Abortion: Debate to Dialog. I've been through the basic training 4 times, as well as some advanced trainings. I've also talked to many people on University campuses about the issue of abortion. I would never have been able to have the meaningful conversations that I did without JFA's training. You should all check it out and see if JFA will be doing a training near you soon. Ok, off my soapbox now. I hope you didn't mind... --Jordan Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:18:10 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_275921 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_275921 BlueGonfalon Hey guys! It's great to see I'm not totally alone or in a big old minority. There's plenty of us here! I love you all! I'm going to save babies tomorrow. :D I love getting to say that. I'm going with a big group to a local abortion clinic that we've been sort of...massing on each Saturday. And then I get to host a Live Action meeting at my house. (Google Live Action if you don't already know who they are.) I LOVE BEING PRO-LIFE!! Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:21:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_275943 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_275943 KelinciHutan Now that the writing buddies feature is back up, I'm going to add at least some of y'all. Feel free to add me, if you're wanting some people to word war with. But be warned: I'm very competitive. :P Sat, 29 Oct 2011 07:52:50 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_279245 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_279245 MarcyT @Meryle: This is a very delicate issue. This is pretty rare. When there is a high risk, treatments can often be done so they both can survive long enough for the baby to be born old enough that he or she survives. Also, some pregnancy issues end up resolving themselves naturally, and the pregnancy continues normally. If none of this works, it's a very sad and bad situation. The mother has to stay alive or the baby will also die for sure. If absolutely nothing else will work, sometimes the baby dies (though not necessarily an abortion; the baby's life just can't be saved). However, this is incredibly rare (under 1% of all abortions are for saving the life of the mother, as well as rape and incest, combined). If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me any time and I'd be happy to answer. @HeavenlyPrincess and BlueGonfalon: I know what you mean. Sometimes I feel so alone, too. @HeavenlyPrincess: I haven't heard of that group, but I got training through my state's Teens for Life and I definitely recommend getting training. @BlueGonfalon: That's wonderful that you're doing that! @KelinciHutan: I might take you up on that. I'm very competitive, too. :) Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:02:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_279921 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_279921 CheyennevanStrange Hi! :) I'm a pro-life writer, though my writing is not necessarily pro-life. My novel t is a Christian allegory though this year, so the theme of life is a big part of it. Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:17:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_280078 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_280078 louellena [sent you a nanomail] Like Aneith wrote, it's definitely not something to be taken lightly. {and from experience, there's quite a bit of fear-mongering in obstetrics; it's pretty disturbing - they tend to take advantage of your fears/concerns and twist that information to encourage you to do things their way - if they trust themselves &amp; their practices more than what you say about your beliefs/experiences/family history/...anything else} Sat, 29 Oct 2011 22:10:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_289879 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_289879 skatepixie Lol fair enough I suppose. Though, at least in my state, if you are over 18 you do not need a certified instructor. Least, last I checked, but I would have to ask my uncle, as he owns a driving school. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:29:29 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_291993 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_291993 skatepixie This. My friend was that baby, back in the 80s. What they did for her was deliver her early, by c-section. Some of the doctors very much wanted to abort, but her mother wanted them to do the c-section, even very early and try to save her. She was 26 weeks along, and record low birth weight to survive. She is now married, a college grad (with honors), and expecting her own first child. These days, babies as early as 21 weeks can survive. It's a rough road, but I think it's always better to give the child that chance. Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:41:43 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_292144 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_292144 Aisling Banrion Pro-life forever! Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:33:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_319215 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_319215 Kate L It would be awesome if we could get more posts on here than the 'pro-choice' writers group. =) Mon, 31 Oct 2011 14:28:57 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_328774 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_328774 KelinciHutan This is neither pro-life, particularly, or NaNo-related, but I'm telling everyone who cares to listen because I am <em>so</em> excited. I just spoke to my advisor today. I am cleared for college graduation! I'm going to be done in December and then I'm off into the big, scary world of adventures! I can not tell you how happy I am about this. ...Now, if I can just hit my word counts, everything will be super great. :) Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:34:00 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_402149 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_402149 Aneith Yay! Congratulations! Wed, 02 Nov 2011 16:41:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_402450 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_402450 wintertulip [Removed. Please, NO DEBATE in this thread.] Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:46:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_404835 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_404835 wintertulip *are human. Oh, for an edit button! And I'm not trying to start a fight. I just don't understand how something I would give my right arm in exchange for could be considered an abuse against me. Abortion comes up in my novel so I guess I'd like to understand the other view better. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:50:53 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_404988 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_404988 KelinciHutan I would be willing to discuss this over NaNomail, if you like. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:01:38 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405392 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405392 wintertulip [Removed - Please NO DEBATE in this thread, as requested.] Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:08:06 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405665 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405665 Aneith So... Why did you come here? Reported. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:12:09 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405831 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_405831 wintertulip Procrastinating novel-writing :P Also, trying to figure out why FMC's boyfriend thinks she should feel sad about having an abortion (she doesn't), and why he can't understand that she doesn't want to keep the baby even though he's offering her his full support. I don't have a great handle on him yet. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:20:36 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406147 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406147 Aneith Easy. He thinks murdering an innocent human being is wrong. He doesn't understand why someone wouldn't feel grief over the murder of their child. He doesn't understand why someone he thought he knew is totally ok with murdering her child. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:29:08 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406446 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406446 wintertulip He doesn't think that though. He doesn't think foetuses are human. And he knew what her attitude towards abortion was when they got together. I think he's just sad that he's offering her help and she's refusing it, and feeling rejected that he wasn't even a factor in her decision. Thanks. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:35:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406729 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_406729 Aneith What does he think the foetuses are then? That makes no sense logically or scientifically. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 18:59:14 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_407570 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_407570 wintertulip Pre-humans. Not yet born. Not yet possessing of human rights. Potential babies, in the same way that a flash of inspiration is a potential novel - something you can choose to develop, or to let go. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:17:48 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_408263 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_408263 October Rose Great answer, Marcy! In addition to it being so rare, I think there's also an important distinction: in the rare cases where the mother's life is in jeopardy, the death of the child is the *result* of the treatment required to save her life, not vice versa--if that makes any sense. Ending the pregnancy and the life of the child is not the goal, but rather a very, very serious side effect. I'm thinking of ectopic/tubal pregnancies, for example, where sometimes in order for the mother to survive she must have her fallopian tube removed. This results, inevitably, in the death of the baby. But it isn't the same thing as having an abortion--it is a medical procedure meant to save the mother's life that has an unavoidable, and very sad, secondary result. Wed, 02 Nov 2011 20:13:08 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_410382 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_410382 KelinciHutan I just read a lovely and uplifting article in <em>The Weekly Standard</em> that I thought I would share with y'all. <a href="http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/hidden-persuaders_604174.html?nopager=1" rel="nofollow">Hidden Persuaders: The unheralded gains of the pro-life movement</a> Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:12:00 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_466815 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_466815 MusicalRaven I'm in. I'm defently Pro-life. Fri, 04 Nov 2011 14:37:18 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_467509 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_467509 MarcyT Congratulations! Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:39:51 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_471114 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_471114 invdrzim Hooray! Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:25:35 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_478409 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_478409 KelinciHutan Well, I'm still kind of down about the defeat of Initiative 26 in Mississippi. However, there is good news from the recent elections. Pro-lifers have just <a href="http://www.lifenews.com/2011/11/09/virginia-pro-lifers-pick-up-senate-defeat-abortion-activist/" rel="nofollow">picked up the state senate in Virginia</a>. Plus, some good news out of Michigan. The Attorney General has filed a suit against two late-term abortion offices there, and the judge of the case has <a href="http://www.lifenews.com/2011/11/09/judges-orders-two-abortion-centers-closed-in-michigan/" rel="nofollow">ordered them shut down</a> at least until the twenty-first, when the hearing on the suit is scheduled. So, I'm still bummed about the loss in Mississippi, but there are some good things happening. Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:25:51 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_604003 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_604003 BlueGonfalon The bill in Mississippi was pretty horribly written, I'm afraid, for instance, it said that an embryo is a person because of "Divine Law" or something to that affect. (Can't quite remember off the top of my head). While that's true, you'd then get people asking, "Which Divine Law?" And things would get complicated and the bill would be ignored. I say, anyone going to the International Pro-Life Youth Conference in LA this weekend? My sister and I are hoping to go, and I just want to know if I might see any of y'all down there? Wed, 09 Nov 2011 18:30:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_607493 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_607493 KelinciHutan I don't think it did say that. According to <a href="http://personhoodmississippi.com/amendment-26/what-it-says.aspx" rel="nofollow">Personhood Mississippi's website</a> the text on the Mississippi ballots was as follows: [quote]Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Mississippi: SECTION 1. Article III of the constitution of the state of Mississippi is hereby amended BY THE ADDITION OF A NEW SECTION TO READ: Section 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, "The term 'person' or 'persons' shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof." This initiative shall not require any additional revenue for implementation.[/quote] There were a <em>lot</em> of abortion apologists spreading misinformation, fear-mongering, pearl-clutching, and outright lying over this amendment. To the point where the governor had to issue what amounted to a cease-and-desist to one group that was robo-calling people to lie about his position on it. I don't know that it would have passed had its opponents not been flooding the state with false talking points, but that certainly didn't help. On the other hand, if the best that vast amounts of scare-tactics and misinformation can achieve is a 60-40% split, then perhaps this was less of a defeat and more of a revving of the engine? We can certainly hope. :) Wed, 09 Nov 2011 20:01:23 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_609265 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_609265 Rachel Bee It's so nice to see a group of people who will congratulate me, rather than attack me, when I say I'm pro-life. It's been a while since I ran into anyone pro-life outside the Christian community, which seems odd to me, since I don't consider it a religious issue. (Yes, there are religious arguments, but it's not /about/ religion.) I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I've come to the realization that right now (at least, for me here in Canada) it's a waste of energy to fight against abortion. What we really need to be doing is fighting /for/ things that will reduce the demand for abortion - access to birth control, access to adoption information, destigmatization of rape, access to prenatal and postnatal care for those who can't afford it, and so on. What do you guys think? (This is, of course, not debate so much as discussion: after all, we're all on the same side. :) ) Thu, 10 Nov 2011 01:01:03 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_614240 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_614240 October Rose Rachel, I agree about fighting for measures that reduce abortion! Particularly I think we need to do more to help women in crisis pregnancies, providing them with much better information and resources than they tend to receive now. (If it were up to me, there would be a crisis pregnancy center next to every abortion clinic!) However, I think the two aspects must always go hand-in-hand (fighting against abortion specifically, and fighting against those things that proliferate abortion), if only because as long as people think that abortion is okay and not ending a human life, they aren't going to care as much about the other options available to them (adoption, etc). For example, as long as abortion isn't seen as something wrong, then people *aren't* going to take birth control seriously--if it fails, you just get an abortion; both become means of preventing a baby. In fact, I actually believe that an increase in reliance on artificial birth control leads directly to an increase in abortions, precisely because it is in "Oh crap we made a baby" instances that so many abortions happen. And I believe if one looks at when the widespread use of birth control became socially accepted, it is no coincidence that abortion was legalized soon after. But that is kind of a tangential conversation! :) Thu, 10 Nov 2011 10:46:06 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_619750 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_619750 Aneith I'm Canadian and non Christian too. I get what you mean. I've also had to put up with attacks. It really is a waste of energy talking to those people. It's like banging your head against a wall. Not surprising considering their level of ignorance in the subject of biology, but it is annoying. The thing is, there is a lot of access to birth control including free birth control. The problem is that people consider abortion to be birth control. That and the "choice" part of "pro-choice" completely ignores the fact that most women did choose to have sex knowing full well what the potential consequences are. Aside from that, I do agree that there should be easier access to family doctors in general and prenatal/postnatal care. I'm not sure how the access to adoption information is. I also agree that rape survivors should get more support rather than stigma. (Sorry if I come across as mean. I don't get to say this stuff often and it bothers me.) Thu, 10 Nov 2011 19:01:50 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_628822 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_628822 MarcyT I agree, we need to fight both at reducing the "need" for abortion and at making abortion illegal. Two other things I think need to be worked on are abstinence (which would decrease the number of crisis pregnancies) and ending the negative attitude towards people with disabilities (another group of people often aborted). I am horrified by the prejudice against disabled people nowadays. It's so sad. :( I even have a shirt that says "Disabled does not equal Disposable" and I think that's something that people need to think about. I am so glad to see so many pro-lifers here! I know what you mean about not being bullied for your beliefs. I don't believe anyone should be bullied for what they believe, but it happens a lot (I have been bullied and sworn at for my convictions both on this issue and other issues and my religion in general). It's a horrible thing to have happen to you. Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:16:26 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_644350 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_644350 silverfire526 Hi! It's really awesome to see other pro-lifers on here. I go to school at a liberal college, and it's often hard realizing that if I shared my pro-life views on campus, even my close friends would probably disagree with me. My novel has nothing to do with pro-life-ness, but it's really cool to see that some people are doing that! ^_^ If anyone wants to be buddies, message me! Human rights for all humans! Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:26:00 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_653970 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_653970 Aneith I agree on the abstinence thing and fighting the stigma about disabilities. I'm no prude, but when people would rather kill someone rather than face the consequences of having sex, I think it's better if they avoid sex. I would also like it if rape could somehow be eliminated for obvious reasons, but have no idea how to do that other than to fight the stigma and fight for rapists to be punished. I am also horrified by the stigma against differently abled people. On another note (and I know this is a bit controversial, so if it would be better not to discuss it, so be it), do you guys think sex ed helps? I think it does, but not enough people get the message that sometimes contraceptives don't work. Or they do get the message, but think it's alright because killing people is somehow ok to them... How about more emphasis in biology? I've found that a surprising number of people don't know that a human foetus is human. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:45:42 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_657280 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_657280 MarcyT I agree about rape. I would like it if there was a much higher punishment for rape. Right now, the rapists gets on average 14 years in jail, but it's considered just fine (and a good idea) to kill one of the victims (the baby). I'm kind of both ways on sex ed. I think it could help if they taught the biology of humans and the risks of having sex. However, health classes are often done by Planned Parenthood and, therefore, are very pro-abortion. I also think that sex ed is something people's parents should talk to them about, not a school that doesn't know each kid personally. My big problem with health class is they tell kids how to have sex and stuff, but they don't tell them about the age of consent. Where I live, you can get put on the sex offender registry if you have sex with anyone under 18 (even if you are under 18, too, and even if you're close in age) and yet I was put in a sex ed class under 18. A lot of my friends were put in them in middle school. However, I learned about age of consent on my own and a friend of mine who had finished her school's sex ed class had no idea it existed. I preferred learning about it in science. That way, we were just given hard facts and no biases. I would also like it if they warned girls about the physical consequences of abortion, and both girls and boys about the emotional consequences. I actually have a subplot in my novel that deals with Past Abortion Syndrome. It was very emotional to research and write. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:30:09 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_660303 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_660303 wintertulip Are you sure they don't mention age of consent? It was definitely emphasised in the sex ed I receieved, along with many classes on relationships (in a broader context than just sexual). I also think that the hard scientific facts about the physical consequences of abortion and childbirth should be more widely publicized, along with statistics about their relative levels of occurrence. It would help people make informed decisions about whether to abort or go ahead with a pregnancy. In my novel, I'm writing about the long-term health consequences that a woman suffers after giving birth to an unwanted child. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:13:42 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662081 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662081 wrambler I just heard of Feminists for Life recently, and may have to join! I know virtually nothing about it other than it exsits and I seem to be in agreement with their viewpoint haha. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 15:50:45 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662721 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662721 KelinciHutan I don't really have a firm opinion on sex ed in terms of the biology/science sideof things. Which is mostly all I think the school system has any business teaching kids anyway. And Marcy is absolutely right when she says that a lot of sex ed classes are taught by Planned Parenthood flunkies. There's no way that PP is going to teach a sex ed class that would help in making abortion unthinkable...or even less likely, I imagine. For the biology portion of things, my thought is mostly "Meh." For everything else, leave it to parents. Do I think sex ed helps reduce abortion overall? No. I don't know that it does any harm, but... Well, you've heard people going on and on about how sex ed and more birth control are the only ways to reduce abortion. But you look at the UK where there's lots of sex ed and lots of birth control...and lots of abortion. New York City has lots of sex ed and lots of birth controll and is the abortion capital of the United States. Sex ed is not the cure-all tha some would have us believe. So...that was kind of long, but there you are. :) Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:01:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662913 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662913 MarcyT Maybe it varies from place to place? Where I live, age of consent rules are not widely publicized or taught. I agree. I would just like facts taught. I researched scientific arguments against abortion for a school paper and found a lot of material. There is a lot of information out there. However, many people do not know about it. Your story sounds really interesting. I found working with PAS very interesting, but also very emotional and hard to write about. I cried in a lot of the scenes. Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:03:23 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662954 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_662954 MarcyT That's a good point. Looking at the U.K. and New York do not make sex ed look very promising (and in that case we also shouldn't probably bother using tax payer money on stuff that doesn't work). I personally would like it if health classes went back to more practical and less controversial things like eating right, exercising, and first aid (not that these things aren't taught, but they are getting less time due to all the sex ed content). Actually, I would rather have school go back to it's original purpose--teaching reading, writing, arithmetic, and how to think for yourself (logic, etc.)--and quit trying to be the replacement to kids' parents. But that's a whole different discussion on my beliefs on education. :) Sat, 12 Nov 2011 16:10:45 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_663070 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_663070 wintertulip That's interesting. It would be interesting to imagine what the world would be like if PAS existed. Sun, 13 Nov 2011 05:40:21 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673719 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673719 KelinciHutan PAS is tough. Knowing some of the post-abortive women who have gone/are going through it, it's hard to listen to sometimes and really hard to know what to say beyond, "I'm sorry." But it's just... I can't imagine trying to write about it, and I probably would've been crying as well. (PS - To go from the sublime to the somewhat less so, your word count is intimidating and amazing. :P) Sun, 13 Nov 2011 06:15:33 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673856 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673856 MarcyT I read a lot of testimonies of post-abortive parents and it was just tough reading those. It must be really hard to know someone going through it. :( I will pray for your friends. Also, if you haven't heard it, I'd recommend the song Lucy by Skillet. It is my favorite Skillet song. *Blushes* Thank you. :) I'm hoping for 150k. Sun, 13 Nov 2011 06:23:11 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673895 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_673895 KelinciHutan [quote=BlueGonfalon]I say, anyone going to the International Pro-Life Youth Conference in LA this weekend? My sister and I are hoping to go, and I just want to know if I might see any of y'all down there?[/quote] Well, don't keep us in suspense! How is it? :) Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:08:58 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_676106 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_676106 BlueGonfalon Hey guys! I have just returned from the International Prolife Youth Conference. I'm now FIRED UP TO HELP SAVE BABIES!!! Lila Rose was there, Jill Stanek, Dr. Eoghan De Faoite (from Ireland's Youth Defence)...you name them, they were there. And they all spoke. And it was pretty dang amazing. So now I'm bouncing around everywhere defending life and using all the tools and tactics that we learned there and just HAVING SO MUCH FUN!!! I like being Prolife. And hyper. Being a hyper Prolifer is fun. :D Oh yeah, and I'm wearing a Prolife T-shirt right now. So is my sister, and she's at her liberal college right now. So this is cool. :D Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:08:03 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_695805 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_695805 MarcyT That sounds amazing! Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:20:27 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_696018 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_696018 KelinciHutan Lila Rose!!! Ooh, that sounds awesome. *iz green* Though, I'm curious. Was Eduardo Verastegui there, and if so, what did he speak on? Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:49:33 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_696527 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_696527 October Rose So, this seems sort of relevant to the thread: my husband just felt our baby move for the first time. :) (I've been feeling him/her for a few weeks now, but at first you couldn't feel it from the outside, and it's still difficult to catch at the exact right moment.) I know I'm biased because I am so excited to meet this little baby, but I honestly can't imagine being able to have an abortion in the second trimester after "quickening." These movements are NOT ME ... they are inside my body, but someone else is alive and making them. It's so crazy! :) Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:55:05 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_701394 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_701394 MarcyT Congrats! That is so amazing! Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:15:00 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_706682 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_706682 wintertulip Sex ed in the UK is quite hit and miss. Some schools provide very comprehensive sex ed; others don't. It's obligatory in other European countries such as France, Finland and Germany. Teen pregnancy rates in those countries are less than half what they are in the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_education#Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_teenage_pregnancy#Europe Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:28:19 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_711325 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_711325 KelinciHutan Ooh, that's fantastic! Go you! Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:02:43 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_711832 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_711832 BlueGonfalon Ahahah, and I know Lila's younger siblings. :D We're in a debate group together. :D He was not there. I've no idea why not. But we had lots of other people. *shrugs* Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:20:25 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_714119 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_714119 BlueGonfalon :O That is amazing! Go you, Mrs. October! :D Hi little guy/girl! *waves* Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:22:09 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_714157 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_714157 KelinciHutan Ah well. I wonder if he's working on his new movie right now? When I catch his public posts on Facebook lately, it sounds like he might be working on a new film. If it's half as awesome as <em>Bella</em>, then I can't wait. Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:39:22 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_715465 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_715465 Unit7 Well lets be fair. It technically isn't murder. Murder is defined as the UNLAWFUL killing of a human. Since abortion isn't exactly... unlawful... in places where its lawful anyways... it can't be murder. But that's just semantics. Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:13:19 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_720092 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_720092 Unit7 Oh yes this scenario is always fun to ask people. At the end of the day, you'd just be condemning someone to die. In this rare and I do mean rare, case that this should happen then the mother should have ultimate say. Whether abortion is illegal or not, in such a case this should be one of those few exceptions to the law. Tue, 15 Nov 2011 23:17:30 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_720168 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_720168 MarcyT I haven't had a chance to see <em>Bella</em> yet, but it's on my list of movies to see and I can't wait to! Wed, 16 Nov 2011 05:18:05 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_722500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_722500 BlueGonfalon Possibly. I haven't seen Bella; my parents were fans. I guess they didn't like the bath scene or something. But I'll watch it someday! :D Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:33:13 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_725254 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_725254 Aneith I was actually thinking more biology in the terms of human foetus=human since a surprising number of people seem to not know that despite that fact that it's glaringly obvious to anyone who knows what DNA is. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:48:13 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_726903 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_726903 Shem-the-Penman I thought I'd stop by and say congratulations to Mr &amp; Mrs Rose! Just so you don't get the wrong idea about me: pro-choice is about letting people make the best choice for themselves. This father of two hopes your choice works out as well as mine did. Best of luck! -Shem Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:37:15 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_727585 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_727585 wintertulip They know, they just think it's irrelevant. DNA has no moral value: it's not conscious and it's capable of neither pleasure or suffering. It seems odd to bring it into an ethical discussion. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 14:02:33 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_727944 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_727944 MarcyT That's a good point. I've never heard at least of stuff like that becoming a controversy with animals. I mean, people don't argue that what's in a pregnant dog isn't puppies. With anything else, it's just considered a biological fact. However, when it's a human fetus, it's something different. It's quite inconsistent, both with logic and science. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:14:01 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_729920 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_729920 JasminePipher isn't it weird?! it's like there's a little alien kitten trying to get out the wrong way....! i hated every moment of being pregnant, including the baby's movements, but i am so pro-life! sometimes it became an inner mantra of sorts...."i love my baby, i love my baby....!" my 2nd is due in august, i just found out! hoping this time is better than the last! Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:06:23 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_733303 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_733303 JasminePipher i can't imagine being up against such a situation. God bless you deeply for doing the right thing, in loving your baby before anyone else did. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:10:09 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_733347 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=2#forum_thread_comment_733347 Aneith [Removed] Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:51:39 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_735447 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_735447 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 03:54:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_737652 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_737652 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 03:58:24 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_737678 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_737678 KelinciHutan [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:35:13 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741147 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741147 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 11:55:57 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741383 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741383 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:00:10 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741431 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_741431 louellena [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:09:29 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742333 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742333 October Rose Thanks everyone! :D And Jasmine--lol! When I think about it, I realize if I was feeling this without knowing it was a baby, it would be pretty weird to me! But something about knowing it's little feet kicking makes it cool for me. :) I didn't enjoy being pregnant the first trimester, but now that I look pregnant and feel less exhausted, I am. And congrats on your second!! So exciting! I hope that you feel good these coming months. Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:13:37 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_742395 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_742395 wintertulip "A mother's perspective is right because she knows she's thinking" Exactly. If only more people would respect that. Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:16:32 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742431 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742431 JasminePipher yes, even knowing what was inside, i still thought it was the oddest sensation in the world! hopefully your pregnancy keeps getting better! Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:22:41 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_742534 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_742534 Aneith [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:35:38 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742703 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742703 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:52:38 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742940 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_742940 Aneith [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:59:21 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743705 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743705 wintertulip [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:06:04 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743777 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743777 Aneith [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:17:22 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743919 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_743919 wintertulip [remove] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:28:22 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_744064 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_744064 Aneith [removed] Thu, 17 Nov 2011 16:06:36 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_744612 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_744612 MarcyT Hi, everyone! I more intended this thread to be for discussions about pro-lifer activities and our stories, instead of debates. While I really like debates, I'm worried they're going to get out of hand and/or take over the thread. Maybe it would be better if there was a separate thread for debates. Thank you for understanding! Fri, 18 Nov 2011 05:45:49 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_751993 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_751993 MarcyT I agree. I started this group for discussion, not debate. If people want to debate more, please start up a thread for that. I enjoyed discussing ideas and issues, but this is getting to be just debate. This was not why I started this thread. :( Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:00:41 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753106 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753106 MarcyT Hi, everyone! I more intended this thread to be for discussions about pro-lifer activities and our stories, instead of debates. While I really like debates, I'm worried they're going to get out of hand and/or take over the thread. Maybe it would be better if there was a separate thread for debates. Thank you for understanding! Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:01:57 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_753115 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=1#forum_thread_comment_753115 wintertulip [removed] Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:02:45 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753121 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753121 MarcyT Hi! Sorry about the misunderstanding, but I am writing a novel with a pro-life subplot and I remembered this thread from last year and that is why I started the thread. It is not a debate thread in any way, shape, or form. (I've been on debate threads, I love them, but if I wanted to make this a debate thread, I would have restarted the Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice debate thread from last year.) Please try to respect the purpose of this thread. Thank you! :) Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:06:54 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753155 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753155 wintertulip [removed] Fri, 18 Nov 2011 09:08:51 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753173 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=3#forum_thread_comment_753173 Dragonchilde <strong>Folks, I would like to ask (once again) that you please not continue to debate in this thread. If you would like to start a debate about this issue, feel free to do so in the Off Topic forum. However, this thread is for writers who believe in a certain ideology to have discussions about their writing and how their beliefs show in that writing. It is not a place where you can or will change someone's mind about their beliefs. In the interest of keeping the purpose of this forum about writing groups, I have removed those comments in this thread that have violated my request to please not debate here. As noted in the Codes of Conduct: [quote]We’re a diverse community who hold many different beliefs and viewpoints. We may not think what you think, believe what you believe, or see what you see, but you are entitled to respect, as are the members you might disagree with. Be polite in your interactions with other members. If conversations in the forums get heated, take a break. Don’t feel the need to respond immediately. Personal conflicts should not be aired on the forums. The forums are a place for conversations between many different people. We have a private messaging system, NaNoMail, that is perfectly suited for conversations just between two people. A little conflict is inevitable in the NaNoWriMo forums, but escalating that conflict to the level where it becomes abusive, hateful, defamatory, or threatening is not okay.[/quote] Please remember this and the Terms &amp; Conditions you agreed to when signing up for your account here on this site.</strong> Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:31:17 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_753841 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_753841 wintertulip [removed] Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:00:10 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754098 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754098 Alpina'sQuill I want to write a pro-life futuristic novel... Well, to be more specific, the plot revolves around Eugenicists ruling the world and not letting people freely marry. I'm having some trouble with the futuristic part because it's slightly sci-fi. I've never wrote sci-fi. *covers head* Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:59:27 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754666 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754666 KelinciHutan That sounds <em>really</em> interesting. Is that what you're writing for NaNo? *reads synopsis* ...Oh, well played! :D But I would love to see a novel along the lines you described. It sounds utterly fascinating. Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:26:15 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754952 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_754952 Alpina'sQuill No, it's not the one I'm doing for NaNo. Not yet, at least. ROFL, you would? If I could get some advice from other writers I might actually write the darn thing. I just need to come up with non-cliche futuristic names first... xD I thought it would be a great drama adventure, though. Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:38:14 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_755083 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_755083 KelinciHutan What's wrong with using current names or variations on current names? Most current naming conventions are a few centuries established by now, and barring the End Of The World As We Know It, they'll probably continue along mostly similar lines, I would think. Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:09:28 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_755378 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_755378 MarcyT That sounds really interesting! I would definitely like to read that. Fri, 18 Nov 2011 14:57:49 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_756606 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_756606 October Rose I agree ... you can use normal names, maybe changed slightly, and it would still work. :) As for writing futuristic scifi when you never have before, I think the absolute best thing you can do is read a lot of it! You'll get a feel for how it works that way. Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:20:23 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_756919 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_756919 Alpina'sQuill Oh wow, thanks! And that advice was helpful. :-] Fri, 18 Nov 2011 20:07:46 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_760139 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_760139 MarcyT I write fantasy, not sci fi, so I'm not sure how helpful this will be, but when I need names, I just go through a baby name book or site and find unusual names that work. It's amazing how many names and spelling variations of names there are in those books and sites that I've never heard of. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:19:05 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_764696 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_764696 ruwth Hello to anyone who reads this post. I am pro-life. Sadly, I killed my first child. I regret doing that and would undo it if I could. It was forty-one years ago but there are tears in my eyes as i write this post. I am a Christian and I believe that I am forgiven. I forgive myself . . . but it is still sad. It impacted the lives of my living chldren . . . and my grandchildren. I am open about this and hopefully have spared others the tears and regret that are a part of my life . . . forever. ~ ~ ~ ruwth ~ ~ ~ Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:13:20 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_765660 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_765660 MarcyT *Hugs* You are amazingly brave to tell us this. I know God has forgiven you. I am praying for you. Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:22:00 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_765742 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_765742 BlueGonfalon <img src="http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/hnp00/gifs/Hug.gif"> You have been forgiven. That is all that matters. And you share your story in the hopes that no one else will do the same thing. You are a beautiful, courageous, and wonderful person, and God loves you so much. Thank you for being so open and sharing your story with us. Sun, 20 Nov 2011 18:42:53 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_785074 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_785074 October Rose God bless you. I know that your first child is waiting to greet you with joy in heaven! Sun, 20 Nov 2011 19:18:40 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_785537 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_785537 KelinciHutan Hey, y'all might find <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyljukBE70" rel="nofollow">this TED talk</a> interesting. It's called "Conception to Birth" and is a fascinating look at the journey from conception to birth. Absolutely awesome. (The development video bits starts at just after 2:00, and it's not the complete film so I feel like it might skip around a bit.) The comments are about what you'd expect from Youtube, of course, but even outside of the development video, the speaker is quite interesting and thoughtful and really, really fascinating. Go! Watch! Love! And then write some more because November is soon to be ending. :) Fri, 25 Nov 2011 21:03:13 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_846523 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_846523 October Rose Way cool! I actually came on to post this other TED talk about learning in the womb: http://www.ted.com/talks/annie_murphy_paul_what_we_learn_before_we_re_born.html It's pretty awesome. This article about fetal psychology says some of the same things, and some stuff that isn't in the TED talk: http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/tul/psychtoday9809.html Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:18:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_909851 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_909851 MarcyT I know there's less people around now that NaNo is over, but how is everyone doing? I'm still recovering from NaNo, I think. :) Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:35:31 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_984475 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_984475 KelinciHutan I'm doing well. I graduated college...a week ago today, actually (and I'm still really excited). So now I'm working on trying to start a career. My sister is getting married in a few days. A week from this coming Friday, I believe. In the less important realm, I have finished the rough draft of a fanfic I had to keep forcing myself not to work on during NaNo and am editing that to post. And that is my life in a nutshell. Usually, it's not nearly so interesting. Mon, 19 Dec 2011 13:50:27 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_985182 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_985182 MarcyT Congratulation on graduation! I haven't been up to much. I was trying to write my dad a story for Christmas, but am still too tired from NaNo, so he will be getting half a story for Christmas. :) Otherwise, I'm editing NaNo 2010 (still) and getting ready for Christmas. Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:21:47 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_985336 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_985336 Lady_Indis_Dress Hi everybody. I haven't had any life vs. non-life issues in my writing thus far but I am pro-life. Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:55:33 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_988502 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_988502 beanza3 Awk... O.o Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:48:44 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_988953 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_988953 Aneith I got Free To Be You And Me for my son for Christmas. :) I love being a mom. Thu, 22 Dec 2011 11:02:48 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_993679 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_993679 MariaElaine I'm pro-life (and always have been), but I avoid the political/religious debate. What's the point if my mind is made up and so is yours? I've written three and a half novels (one is co-authored), and only one mentions abortion. I avoid the subject. However, every one of my novels has a definite pro-life slant. My only novel that mentions abortion is a fiction novel in which an American couple moves to China. When the woman finds out that girls are sold at the market, she buys two. Her husband has a fit but eventually realizes that he must help these girls. When he researches the law in China, he discovers that China has forced abortions. Mon, 26 Dec 2011 14:58:04 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1001676 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1001676 LordFeanor Just thought I'd check in a wish everyone a Happy New Year... God willing, we shall make great bounds in ending the evil of abortion in the new year! Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:48:32 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1014292 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1014292 MarcyT I agree. Why isn't there a like button on NaNo? :) Happy New Year, everyone! Sat, 31 Dec 2011 17:45:54 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1015565 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1015565 KelinciHutan Are any of y'all participating in the Spring 40 Days For Life this year? I keep getting emails from Shawn Carney and I feel vaguely guilty that I can't really participate as actively as I'd like (we have a CPC in town, but there's no abortion facilities for at least an hour in any direction from me--which is <em><strong>great</strong></em>, but it does limit my ability to do activism when things like gas prices get factored in). So, is there anyone I can cheerlead for? I am all ready with the pom-poms and encouragement! (...Well, the pom-poms are imaginary. The encouragement is real, though.) And if you are participating, in what capacity? Have you participated before? What's it like? What can I specifically pray for? Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:05:49 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1046959 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1046959 MarcyT I would love to, but I am unable to (I don't have a car or a license). I'll join your cheerleading squad, instead though, so everyone who's doing it, know that I am praying for you and ready to encourage. Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:11:17 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1049275 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1049275 LordFeanor Anyone going to the March for Life? Fri, 13 Jan 2012 14:21:12 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1056574 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1056574 KelinciHutan I did not go to the March For Life-- :( --but I have been collecting pictures of the event on Pinterest. Here are a couple of the best ones, and they link back to the blogs where I found them, which have more pictures. <a href="http://www.stblogustine.blogspot.com/2012/01/2012-march-for-life-in-washington.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DyEl7mtsFX0/Tx45wMlCagI/AAAAAAAABDc/ONCRbB0y-fg/s640/DSC00481.JPG"></a> <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat/2012/01/reflecting-on-the-march-for-life-2012.html" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/solekat205/march.jpg"></a> To be honest, I've been feeling kind of down lately. Obama's/Sebelius' attempt to run roughshod over freedom of religion being one reason. The dismal showing of candidates to oppose him, all with either shaky pro-life records or questionable electability, being another. But after watching the March For Life, and finding out that there were an estimated <em>half-a-million participants</em> (!!!), I am starting to recover my optimism. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StS3nUpDNqc" rel="nofollow">This lovely video from Students For Life</a> helped as well. Florida is putting a personhood amendment on their ballot. We have a chance to get the most pro-abortion president ever out of the White House. And for a crazy, "extreme" movement with almost no financial support or media coverage, we are still having global impact with groups in Belgium, France, Germany, Ireland, Poland, Spain... Yes, I do think the tide really has turned. Huh. For feeling down, this post ended surprisingly hopefully. :) Happy new year, my abolitionist friends. Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:57:50 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1088045 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1088045 Writer.Gal.123 I went on the March for Life! I go to a small Catholic high school, but we got a group of twenty-five students together and headed off to DC. I love going to a Catholic school - they excused us from two days of school, and even out principal came along. @KelincilHutan Yes, be optimistic! I'm not surprised there were half a million participants... there were so many people there, it was insane! And there were many, many young people. With this generation committed to a pro-life America, things could definitely change. Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:10:22 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1088612 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1088612 LordFeanor I went to the March, massively awesome!!! So hopeful and joy filled and BIG!! Check out this great video of the March: http://youtu.be/Zl7FCwMxpLA The tide is definitely turning! Thu, 26 Jan 2012 10:19:32 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1092820 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1092820 Writer.Gal.123 I know, it was so inspriring to be at the March!! I'm still excited, haha. And awesome video. :) Thu, 26 Jan 2012 19:14:07 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1093969 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1093969 MarcyT Great pics! I really wish I could go, but never been able to. Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:09:15 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1097010 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=4#forum_thread_comment_1097010 KelinciHutan Every year for the past few now, I have been watching the astonishingly biased coverage of the March For Life in the major news networks. The largest political protest--certainly in the United States, possibly in the world--everybody knows precisely when and where it's going to happen, I've never heard of so much as raised voices with law enforcement over it, and nobody ever manages to cover the thing. Someone on Twitter remarked that the March must be made of a few hundred thousand <em>ninjas</em>, since no one ever sees them coming or going. And I did my usual drive-bys on Google news of the major networks, to see the predictable footnote stories, with no crowd shots, that make it seem like the ~60 abortion apologists who show up are actually legitimately comparable to the 250,000+ pro-life people who come in from every state in the country and several countries of the world. The most honest news story I found on this from the mainstream outlets (ABCNNBCBS/FOX) was <a rel="nofollow">here</a>, this being the lone story to up their crowd estimates from "thousands" to "tens of thousands." But, believe it or not, this year, CBS actually went above and beyond. <a href="http://washington.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2012/01/23/activists-hold-annual-march-for-life-on-roe-v-wade-anniversary/" rel="nofollow">This slide show</a>, which is actually <em>titled</em> (hold on to your hats, folks) "Activists Hold Annual March For Life On Roe v. Wade Anniversary" originally contained <em>absolutely no photos of pro-lifers at all</em>. Yes. You read that absolutely correctly. Not only did the pro-lifers outnumber the abortion apologists several hundred to one--at least--but they were all so <em>unbelievably sneaky</em> that CBS couldn't find a single picture of them, even for an article that included the words "March For Life" in the title. My sensei would be so proud of us. Of course, if you click on the link now, though numerous comments on the page attest to the fact that they were previously missing, you will see several pictures of pro-lifers in the slide show. Including this one. <img src="http://www.jillstanek.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012-01-30_1719.png"> Which, to be honest, is one of the best March photos I've seen so far. So, the bad news is obviously the fact of the bias in the first place. It really is a shame to see a supposedly respectable news outlet tripping over itself to frame a story so dishonestly. However, the good news is that when enough people point out the deliberate slanting loudly enough, they actually fixed it. Ideally, this never would have happened in the first place, but I don't recall any damage control being done in past years. Apparently, this year, CBS felt the PR damage would be severe enough to warrant some. And that is an encouraging thought. :) Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:04:20 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1104243 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1104243 brianarants Just wanted to drop by and say those are beautiful pictures and thanks for the links! :] Sun, 19 Feb 2012 13:42:58 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1153038 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1153038 MarcyT I just finished my pro-life story! It's still missing a couple (large scenes) and is only almost 16k (more of a bare frame to build on), but I'm really excited! Fri, 02 Mar 2012 18:34:04 -0600 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1185414 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1185414 MarcyT Screnzy is almost here! One of my stories is the sequel to my pro-life story. I can't wait to get back to my characters. Is anyone else doing Screnzy? Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:08:54 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1247080 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1247080 MarcyT Oh and one other thing, would anyone know what the liberal media would call pro-lifers involved in a court case about euthanasia? I know that when the issue is about abortion, they call us "anti-abortion", but that wouldn't work with euthanasia. I'm still working on my first pro-life story (since I can't start Screnzy yet, I can at least work on the first story) and am writing news articles for it. Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:13:02 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1247091 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/writing-groups-and-clubs/threads/1172?page=5#forum_thread_comment_1247091