Is suicide unfit for YA? http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712 Neonrain24 In my story I have this one person Kill them selfs but is that to much for YA? Should i scrap it? Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:12:33 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691391 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691391 Heathertruett Not at all. It is a subject they need to deal with. Look at the stats on teen suicide. Also, there are YA novels doing well in the market that deal with both attempted and completed suicides. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:45:17 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691745 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691745 jefflion Don't scrap it if it fits your story. Definitely not unfit for YA. Bad things happen. As long as it fits the story and it's not there just to be edgy, go for it. I've explored the issue of suicide in several of my novels, one being YA. (My novel this year is about these teens doing a school play based on the Virgin Suicides by Jeffrey Eugenides). And there's also a suicide in the story (though I never show it, it's only talked about; more of the aftermath of the suicide and the way that affects the family). Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:47:29 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691773 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_691773 cloister John Green's amazing "Looking for Alaska" goes there--or does it? You be the judge--and it's a wonderful book. Bufrito! Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:35:10 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_698293 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_698293 LuLiLa Definitely not, suicide is just fine for YA, it's not like teenagers don't understand it so why should it be hidden from them? Don't worry about making things unfit for YA, most teenagers are smarter than others give them credit for. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:54:28 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_698617 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_698617 Half_Pint I think its totally acceptable especially as many teens either know someone who committed or attempted or someone they are close to was affected by it. One of my characters is about to start self harming, its a very mature thing yes but its a very real reality for most teens. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 20:28:37 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_700039 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_700039 kitandkat No, there are plenty of YA books about suicide. The first one that comes to mind is 13 Reasons Why. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:17:00 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_701824 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_701824 aaliona I personally find it rediculous when YA books have no negative or contravercial topics. It's unrealistic and really doesn't make for amazing reading. I say leave the suicide in. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:38:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702180 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702180 Lacey_Harkness My entire YA novel involves self harm, suicides, attempted suicides, murder and mental illness, and I don't find any of those things unfit for a YA, in fact, I think more books should deal with them because they are things teens face a lot...ok maybe not murder, but mental illness, self-harm and suicides are big topics for YA Mon, 14 Nov 2011 22:50:26 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702380 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702380 Brandi. Don't glorify it, over dramatize it or shove the "this is bad" nonsense down your reader's throats. If it is essential to the story, fits the story, and is done in the "right" way, it'll be great! Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:31:07 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702994 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_702994 Brandi. Love this answer! Happy all the time doesn't happen, especially in teenaged life. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:32:06 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_703017 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_703017 R_C_LandPsMommy05 13 Reasons Why by Jay Asher, By the Time You Read This, I'll Be Dead by Julie Anne Peters, even The Sisterhood of the Traveleing Pants--those books all have suicide as a topic and are all YA. I haven't read the first two, but don't be afraid to use it as a subject. Suicide is, unfortunately, a topic many people have had to deal with at least once in their lives. It's a tough one, but if you can do it with grace and not gloss over it, I think you'll be golden. Mon, 14 Nov 2011 23:51:58 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_703379 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_703379 LA1065 Not unfit at all, especially when teen deal with this topic anyways. I experienced the suicide of a friend when I was 13 years old. Tue, 15 Nov 2011 02:05:58 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_704963 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_704963 baka_kit It's something that teens are aware of, sometimes something that they're contemplating. (I know I did, when I was in high school.) One of my protagonist's friends just killed himself. He had an unsuccessful attempt, but when he didn't get the help he needed, he succeeded the second time. Tue, 15 Nov 2011 06:17:25 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_706319 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_706319 RiotGirlNicky Nothing is really "off limits" in YA. I know it's already been mentioned, but 13 Reasons Why by Jay Asher is an amazing book. It takes on the topic of suicide from two points of view, and it's incredibly intense. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 00:59:53 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_720658 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_720658 Sera Phyn I have read 13 reasons why and it is BRILLIANT. Heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time. Plus, I remember two suicides that occurred while I was in middle school. I didn't know the kids, but I remember hearing about it. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:36:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_723543 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_723543 Brandi. I agree, 13 Reasons is an awesome book!! I was about 13 the first time I tried suicide, and I lost a close friend, and aunt, and dealt with two more in high school, as well as a couple more attempts myself. So, it's definitly something that teen deal with and a situation that is often sugar coated in books and shows aimed at teens. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 16:11:06 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_728947 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_728947 FleurH24 Although suicide is not off limits in the Young Adult Reading Level, you still need to be careful in how you craft the passages and subject matter inside its pages. Don't glorify it however. Glorifying suicide in any way will automatically ditter most agents or publishers from taking your work to market and print. Good rule of thumb, if you look at the age groups, and their reading level and what you are writing, if the story's plot is appropriate for a certain age, then that is the level of which your novel and story will be marketed. The reading levels and ages associated with them are as follows: Children Reading Level: up to 8 years Elementary Level Reader: 9 to 12 Middle Age Reader: 12 to 14 or 15 Young Adult 14 or 15 to 18 Adult: 18 and older Although Young Adult is listed up to the age of 18, they are many adults who do enjoy reading Young Adult Novels and stories as that is what Publishers and Agents usually market the most. Hence, those are the ones which the Bookstores and other locations sell most often. Hope your story works well and you can figure out the decision on whether you want to discuss the topic of suicide in your story. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 20:03:37 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_732445 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_732445 AnnEliseMonte Yes, the one thing writers need to remember about YA is to portray whatever subject matter in a tasteful manner. No glorification, no trying to teach a lesson (God, I hate those types of books), and definitely no condemnation of someone who chooses to harm or kill him or herself. Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:41:26 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_734401 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_734401 shortyduapp Totally an ok topic for YA. When I took my YA Lit class I read a book call "Crash Into Me." It is about four teens who go cross country to fulfill a suicide pact. The first line in the book is about a teen trying to kill themselves. As long as you go about it in a way that doesn't paint it as something to glorify, but as a fact of life, you should be ok. Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:51:04 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_827262 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_827262 M. Marie I have one character who ends up getting involved with a scary cult and ends up dead. But she's a peripheral character, not one of the main ones. I don't like the idea of too much death in a kids' book. I love the Harry Potter series, of course, but there is too much death and violence in it and I see fiction as escape, not "reality". Fri, 25 Nov 2011 21:04:16 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_845976 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_845976 MariAdkins i agree. there's another thread floating around here somewhere about what's the message of your book? i just roll my eyes and go on. Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:42:13 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_855523 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_855523 willmerickson Just wanted to add Hold Still by Nina LaCour to the list: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6373717-hold-still It's amazing, to say the least. Sat, 26 Nov 2011 21:58:20 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_857618 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_857618 beanza3 "...and definitely no condemnation of someone who chooses to harm or kill him or herself." That can be debated... I mean, 13 Reasons Why can be read as: everything you do affects other people, or look at the harm sucide wreaks on the poeple left behind. The second one is pretty comdeming, especially considering the characterization of Hannah... But I digress. :D However, I agree with all else! And I add, don't talk down. Don't treat your readers as dumber then they are. Teens in general, probably are collectivly stupid. But the teens who read aren't. And those are the ones you're targeting! :D Sun, 27 Nov 2011 23:05:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_870258 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_870258 Enna-Isilee I agree that it shouldn't be glorified and you shouldn't be like, THIS IS REALLY REALLY BAD THIS PERSON WAS A BAD PERSON DON"T DO THIS. Yes, suicide is terrible. A classmate of mine accidentally shot himself (but for awhile they thought it was suicide). It was tragic and raw and heartbreaking, and there was a lot of anger from his friends, and even some resentment. (Why did he do this? Why didn't he ask for help? Why didn't I see it?) But it does happen, and the reality is that teens have to deal with it. So I say, leave it in. Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:08:55 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_907124 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_907124 MariaElaine Definitely leave it in. Like it or not, suicide happens. I wrote a YA novel in which the mc went to jail. At first I thought that was a little harsh, but I wanted him punished for what he did. (He stole from his employer.) Personally (and I'm 40-ish), I detest novels and movies where the teenager is a hero and a know-it-all who is the only one who can rescue us dumb adults. I did a Google search for criteria for a YA novel. Most of what I read said that the only difference between a YA and Adult novel is that YA novels generally teach a lesson. So if somebody learns a lesson from this suicide, then it's okay. Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:28:52 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_916668 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_916668 FleurH24 Cheers. Well spoken. Fri, 02 Dec 2011 14:22:57 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_923455 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_923455 Coffeedrinker OK - so I am the one who says no here. Anyone read "The Sorrows of Young Werther" by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe? That was pretty much a YA novel revolving around suicide for people living around 1775-1780. It provoked a large number of similar stories, or the same story rewritten by other authors. It also resulted in something called "Werther-Effect," which is a valid psychological effect. The English term is "Copycat Suicide." Both Goethe's novel as well as all the rewrites of it provoked a huge number of suicides over the time, and no, Werther's suicide wasn't glorified. There's no need for that for copycat suicides to occur. The phenomenon is well-known, it has been shown to work effectively with songtexts, movies and other books, even with poems and websites. So, hell, no, I would never advocate anyone targetting a novel containing suicide at teens. Not in a million. Sat, 03 Dec 2011 10:46:03 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_927603 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_927603 indigowriter My Nano delves into the idea of suicide. I think it's an important topic to be dealt with appropriately in YA. If no one ever wrote about it, there would be a lot of teens out there thinking that they were freaks for having to deal with this sort of thing when really a lot of people go through it.... As long as suicide's not being advocated as a good option to get out of life, then it should be fine. :) Tue, 06 Dec 2011 20:42:25 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_944033 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_944033 silvertouch No. Suicide happens. John Green's Looking for Alaska does this well. In my opinion, Thirteen Reasons Why by Jay Asher isn't the best choice, simply by virtue of Hannah's peers not being the actual reasons for her desperation. But anyway... Sat, 10 Dec 2011 14:51:28 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_959405 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_959405 Kaserl Don't say it's awesome, don't say that people are bad for doing it, don't write it only for the message (I really hate those books), and don't make it really, really gory. Other than that, you're fine. People deal with death all the time, yes, even teens. I've had five people I know die within my lifetime. None of them were my age, but they still died. Death is a common thing, and suicide shouldn't be common, but it is. I would be fine with it. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:35:39 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_976528 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_976528 TheatreLvr08 I understand your stance here, and I think it's the reason why a lot of other people say suicide is a topic that should be avoided in YA (and lower ages) literature. But the thing is, suicide happens. As you can see above, a lot of people lost someone or made an attempt themselves when they were in their early, early teens. A friend of mind killed herself when I was in ninth grade. Before that, I had never read any books that had discussed suicide, and I didn't seek out books that had it in them afterwards, but when I found those books, I was comforted. Not because I was reading about suicide but because it meant that I wasn't alone. And some may think, "Of course you weren't; all the people who knew your friend were going through it, too." But no one I know ever talks about it, and it's been almost eight years. Maybe they don't need to talk about it, but I do; it saves me from dwelling in my own mind. People like to feel like they're not alone and these books do that. I don't want to assume, but I think it might be the same case for people who have suicidal tendencies- they see that they're not the only people who feel this way, and when they see a character is able to pull through it, they see that they can, too. I don't think that books about suicide necessarily cause more suicides (I know you made a case for it above, and I'm not disputing that, but YA readers, especially, are smart. They won't copy something just to copy it.) I respect your opinion, but I really think YA readers are smart enough to not feel the need to copy something in a book just because it's there. I think ultimately, it will be a message to them that they don't have to go through what they're going through alone. Sun, 05 Feb 2012 11:26:01 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1117393 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1117393 Maydeleh The number of YA novels dealing with suicide is huge. When I was a youngun in the 1980s, it was one of THE things to write a sensitive YA novel about, along with anorexia and pregnancy scares. If you got a story, go for it. Thank God, we've gotten to an era when very little is off limits for YA. YAs have all the same problems adults have, except worse, because they have no money and no autonomy. Except BDSM. I bet no one has ever published a book about teenagers experimenting with BDSM. Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:07:07 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1158490 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1158490 Maydeleh I'm sorry, it's late. I mean BDSM occurred to me as one of the few things that might still be off limits. Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:07:40 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1158491 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1158491 firelight_cinderbrick 13 Reasons Why is all about the story of why a girl committed suicide told from the perspective of a guy who had a crush on her. It's a New York Times Bestseller. I guess it would fit if the character killed him/herself non-violently like with drug overdose. Sun, 04 Mar 2012 04:13:42 -0500 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1188723 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=2#forum_thread_comment_1188723 RogueWolf The problem with suicide is, unfortunatly, a reality with teens. Read the novel "13 Reasons Why" by Jay Asher, also look at some of the documentaries that are being produced and aimed at a teen audence, "The Road to Nowhere" is a good one. In the end, its about teaching, feeling the reality of the situation, and letting your audence know that there are other people out there feeling and experencing the same things they are feeling. Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:03:29 -0400 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1232927 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/35712?page=1#forum_thread_comment_1232927