Losing your V-card in YA lit http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289 krahe So I have this straight couple, He's 18, she's a month shy of 17. I'm pretty sure he's not a virgin, but she is. I see her as the type of teenage girl who is probably sort of afraid of penises, and who is very invested in the idea of high romance. She definitely sees the guy as sort of her knight, and it's a role he's very keen on playing for her. So, my question is... uh. They've made out a lot, there's been some artfully-worded dry humping and probably a little manual stuff will follow. But after that... Oral first or right to intercourse? I'm struggling with this because I've always regarded oral as being way more intimate, but I'm curious about other opinions on the matter. I think he would have to instigate most everything, because she, while QUITE interested, would be quite shy. Any thoughts? Sun, 27 Nov 2011 15:54:01 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_867389 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_867389 jefflion Ha! This is interesting, because my MC is about to lose her V card tonight (I'm currently writing the chapter). I do regard oral sex as being more intimate or "adventurous". But I'm an old school. I'm 30. When I was a teen, a classic penetrative intercourse was considered to be more "vanilla" than oral sex. Oral sex was reserved for long term relationship couples OR random hook ups (but girls participating in it - even if they were at the receiving end - were seen as more "slutty" than those who've had a "regular" sex). That being said, though, I do think things are changed these days. (I could be wrong, though). I think many teens consider oral to be one of the steps towards losing your V card. Also, what I noticed is that teens are more into fingering before the "real" thing than we were (in "my" days the only "legitimate" way to lose your V card was for your cherry to be popped by his penis, not his finger). But this might not be universal, and it's sure not like this today. However, what you're dealing with here is more about your character as a person than the regular teen sex trends. You know her best, so I think you should do how you feel it's the best in this situation. Do you want the experience to be positive for her? Negative? I'd say, if you want her to relax a bit, and if a guy cares about her, let him give her oral first, so she could be relaxed. Giving someone oral is, basically, a selfless act, and is one of the most pleasurable experiences for an inexperienced girl, because first intercourse is often painful. (Sorry if this whole comment was a huge TMI). PS- My character won't even tell her guy she's a virgin, until he realizes, mid-act. I figured it's what suits her character the best. Sun, 27 Nov 2011 16:10:28 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_867590 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_867590 krahe Oh, jeez. I totally forgot intercourse might be painful for her the first time. Thanks for the reminder. And no, definitely not TMI. Very helpful. Thank you. Also, I read your summary and it sounds like a lot of fun. I bet the scene you're writing tonight is very entertaining--good luck! Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:40:22 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_868688 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_868688 jefflion Well, I'm a bit nervous because it should be a two-part scene. This chapter should end with the guy leaving after a make out and her thinking it's not a good idea to go further. And this is what she told her best friend. Only later (in a later chapter) we'll find out she did, in fact, made the guy come back and they had sex. But because the whole thing needs to be a coherent scene (I need to get in the mood, so to speak), I need to write it on the spot, the whole thing. And yes, first time is often painful for the girl, especially if she's scared. She might also bleed, unless her hymen was perforated before (again, sorry for the TMI). Sun, 27 Nov 2011 17:50:57 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_868800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_868800 beanza3 It depends on your character. She may (from your sparse discription of her, I'm wildly guessing! :D) think that oral sex is random hook-ups and sluts. She may think it's gross. She may be completely fine with it, or prefer it (having sex without "losing" virginity). It probably depends on her views, friends, and upbringing (a character with a anti-sexual religion might feel any one of these things). If she's more scared about sexual things, she might not like it, just because she might just think "what do I do?" O.o Sex-ed doesn't talk about much, so... But, speaking as a high schooler who listens a lot, any of these views are legit, and different ones also are. Sorry if this is completely not helpful! :D Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:58:30 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_870203 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_870203 krahe Oh, man, no, this is so interesting and helpful. I also hadn't considered the angle of oral as not a loss of virginity. Although I don't think she cares, really, about her virginity. I think she's interested in the experience but still frightened of gaining it. I don't know--I mean, I realize this is entirely personal and subjective, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what she would be feeling here. She's also kind of in a social vacuum because she's away from home for the summer and doesn't really have any close friends around. you've definitely given me more things to think about. Thank you. :) Sun, 27 Nov 2011 21:33:49 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_871288 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_871288 swegan I just wanted to say, I have absolutely no advice, but I'm going through the same problem. :) yer not alone! Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:18:18 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_871756 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_871756 ThePQ4 I've had similar problems... As a 23 year old, I (sort of) remember being in high school and reading tons of books. My favorites...probably adult romance novels... So, when I write, I kind of like to take the sugar coating off of everything, making my writing more OLDER young adult... Because I would be horrified if i found a thirteen year old reading something I wrote... As for your question --well, take into account where they are. Are they alone? Could Mom/Dad walk in at any minute? Are they in public or at home? If they've got he time to spend, go through all the motions --top to bottom so to speak. Do a little research on what is more common for teens these days. I honestly think it's more likely for them to get away with doing something "quickly" --oral, group masturbation, etc, than full-out-sex because lets face it: parents are horrified at the thought of their kids doing it and watch them like hawks...or think they are anyway. Thinks happen :/ The other thing to take in account when considering what they'll be doing is --what's going to happen afterwards? Is this heading for a happy ending or is it just the first bump in a rocky road? Your girl is going to be a little less horrified to find out he's slept with her best friend if she just gave him a BJ (...for example, I don't know), whereas if they go all the way, she's going to be emotionally scarred forever. ...Did I just go on a tl;dr rant? My apologies. I'm pretty sure there's something helpful in there if you skim. Mon, 28 Nov 2011 12:00:40 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_876942 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_876942 Coffeedrinker Go with what feels best for you. I do have the impression a bit, that - at least in the UK - boys and men are currently pressuring girls into oral sex. Ditto by the way on anal sex, though that seems to be more US-centric. I'd consider the normal progression kissing - petting - heavy petting (not necessarily inserting fingers) - intercourse. I've the distinct impression that whether inserting fingers, oral or anal sex - all these are a result of watching hardcore porn at a stage prior to actual intercourse, because these are recent porn staples, all being so nicely visual and apt to prolong watching. During pre-internet time, while one might have occasional access to the porn collection of the parents, this was rare and the relevant porn also a lot less racy/kinky than what you see these days. However, you mostly got to see printed stuff, from centerfolds upwards to relatively tame housewifey sex. As a consequence few boys, even those with access to the Playboy insert, considered asking their virginal girlfriends to give them a blow job or agree to anal sex, and even heavy petting rarely included aggressive/insertive fingering. Another tangent is that post-HIV insertive sex (meaning old boring penis-in-vagina sex) has been vilified to a large extent as the most likely activity to acquire a grievous STI. Teenagers in consequence have become kind of inventive, as neither oral nor anal sex among heterosexuals was as targetted by the prim, unlucky anti-HIV-campaigns in some countries, that's what they turned towards in the idea that this would be safer (it isn't of course). That meshes directly with the idea that a girl would still be a virgin if she had oral or anal sex instead of vaginal sex. So, I'd say it largely depends on the kind of people you have there. The "natural" progression (meaning the one not influenced by watching aggressive porn) can still be okay for two teens who are unlikely to consume porn overly much. Whereas it's a by now scientifically researched fact that youths who glorify hardcore porn as kind of a ascension rite have the highest rate of anal intercourse among hetersexual couples and consider oral sex (fellatio) pretty much the way Bill Clinton did. I'm writing the opposite currently, my FMC is experienced, though not overly interested in the sexual implements of males per se, and the MMC is a rather late male virgin with major hangups. Neither will consider oral sex right away, that wouldn't be within the scope of their character. Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:05:46 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_913422 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_913422 indigowriter As a teenager, I must say that it's WAY more common for blow-jobs to happen, but it's scandalous. Those kind of girls are sluts. That's the kind of thing you don't talk to people about and you keep on the down-low, and it's rarely for a "relationship." It's almost solely for hook-ups because it's quick and dirty. If you're in a relationship nowadays, it's more likely that you'll just have normal sex. No one really is worried about where or getting caught. *shrug* Fri, 02 Dec 2011 17:57:44 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_925292 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_925292 Coffeedrinker This makes me wonder, but please no need to answer, or if you prefer, you can answer via private message... WHY would any person, male or female, give a blow job to "hook up" or for whatever other reason if s/he considers her/himself a slut afterwards? And why would the recipient even want this, if it is clear that the giver devaluates him/herself by doing it? That's something I - for the life of me - do not understand. Sat, 03 Dec 2011 06:25:46 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_927378 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_927378 indigowriter I hardly understand the culture of it. I don't tend to associate myself with such individuals.... I think for a lot of people it's that it's a place to fit in. Just because one is a slut doesn't mean that they aren't quite well liked or even popular. And if they aren't this... well, then they have the sub-group of sluts to hang out with. There are also the people who think that the rules don't apply to them. They'll call other girls who give blow-jobs sluts, but they won't consider themselves one. They think they're an exception, when they really just aren't. I have no answer to your second question. That one baffles me as well. *shrug* I've never understood that. Maybe that makes some sense? I don't get the whole idea entirely of why anyone would choose to do this to themselves or why they would devalue themselves so severely... It's got to be some psychological trigger. Meh. Hope that helps... :) Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:17:19 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_940518 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_940518 krahe Re: the question from Coffeedrinker--Why would the recipient want this? Because it feels good; that's why. I don't know why it needs to be any more complicated than that, harsh as it may sound. And thanks Indigowriter, that's some more good perspective for me to remember. Though... you don't think blowjobs happen much in high school relationships where you are? Interesting. Also when I meant oral I also meant cunnilingus, although that hasn't come up at all in any of these replies, so I sort of have to conclude it doesn't tend to, uh. Cross the minds of many high schoolers. Anyway, I've never, ever understood the whole mentality of 'she's a slut for doing X Y or Z' so it's good to be reminded that it exists and that my female high school character is likely surrounded by/steeped in that mentality. Thanks so much. (and also... I hate to get all preachy, but I'd like to point out that you might want to consider your use of the word 'normal' as in 'normal sex' in the first post. I assume you mean heterosexual p-in-v intercourse, but 'normal' is entirely subjective and based on your own preference, orientation, etc. And, you know, blowjobs pretty much stop being scandalous after high school.) Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:22:54 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_952451 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_952451 Anahlynn ^This plus one. @indigowriter I've never understood the "she's a slut for doing so and so" mentality. If their private lives don't effect you, then why is it your job to judge them and put them in neat little categories? You use the word slut quite freely and seem to view anyone who does something you consider sexually scandalous a slut. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean they're a dirty skank who's only out to demoralize their own self being. Different strokes for different folks. Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:16:01 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_953559 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_953559 beanza3 There are a lot of girls who view oral (M or F) as gross, and even more girls who don't at all want it preformed on them, while they'll... Ya know, do it for the guy... The mindset behind this baffles me, but... The slut thing is based on a Christian notion of purety that still invades our culture. As virginal as possible = good, casual sex = bad. Relationship sex falls somewhere in the middle. And it's also an excuse to judge people, which is really what most high schools are based upon. And then language has become so... loose. Like there's a girl in my sister's school who she refered to as a slut, but nice so she likes her, and another girl who is a slut and annoying. If you're promiscous, you're a slut or if you dated a lot of guys or if you dress like one. O.o It's an odd thing. Thu, 08 Dec 2011 19:14:38 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_953875 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_953875 krahe Well. This has been enlightening. The good news is that you've all pretty well answered my initial question--it seems unlikely that oral precedes intercourse in this case. And lastly Beanza, the English language has always been looser than the sluttiest open-thighed slut at anyone's high school, God bless it and keep it that way. Fri, 09 Dec 2011 01:30:37 -0800 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_954774 http://www.nanowrimo.org/en/forums/young-adult-children-s-lit/threads/44289?page=1#forum_thread_comment_954774