My apologies. This time I won't mention the title of my novel or my web site. Before my "shoutout" was banished to the NaNoWirMo's Home Shopping Network (insert smiley emoticon here -- I really don't mind, I understand), I was told by one poster that my entry didn't count and another poster wrote that I was making fun of those who have reached or exceeded the 999,999 mark. I'm very glad to hear we have at least two others who have hit the million-word mark. I hope we have more, and I'd like to see someone pull together a list of the longest entries. I do not believe I claimed to be the only one to write over a million words. What I wrote was "no one exceeded my official word count." And that is true. No one can exceed the upper limit (i.e., 999,999). Not sure what I wrote that made any of you think I was poking fun at anyone. I think anyone who passes the 50K mark should be proud of their achievement. This was my first time in the contest. The writing part was great fun. The "shoutout" -- not so much. Best wishes to you all.
----------
Mark Leach
50,138 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 19 05
Do the rules not also say not to worry about people cheating? It gets you nowhere by accusing them of cheating (even if they did) and by them cheating, they are not harming anybody. So let it be!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nanowrimo '08: The Thyme in the King's Castle:WON!
Screnzy '09: 8 pages and counting
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 19 09
Thank you carlyld for your succinct explanation. I feel like Tristan Tzara, who was booted from Dadaism (or Surrealism or one of those other avant-garde "isms") for composing poems by pulling words out of a hat. Instead of a hat, I use the cut-up method. I use Markov generators. I use the search-and-replace function of Microsoft Word. Sometimes I copy the Bible in reverse. I am not doing anything that William Burroughs didn't do 50 years ago. Indeed, it's interesting to note that he defended the cut-up method by saying "Writing is 50 years behind painting." So now I guess we're about 100 years behind.
----------Mark Leach
50,168 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 19 27
Just to clarify, it's not that what you're doing (and have done) isn't writing -- it is. NaNoWriMo is definitely not the measuring stick of what constitutes as a novel. You're just not following the intention of NaNoWriMo. It's like if you're asked to draw an apple for an art class, but you decide to draw an orange You're still doing art, but you're going to be marked down for not following the parameters of that particular assignment.
That said, feel free to win and be proud of your work. You've still done it, which is a feat in itself, and your efforts should be recognized too. People do take issue, though :)
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 19 43
Carlyld, thank you for your efforts to articulate the concerns of the group. You are a true diplomat.
Regarding what constitutes an acceptable entry in NaNoWriMo -- I'm having a hard time seeing how my work does not follow the parameters of the contest. I have created an original, fictional, prose narrative that meets the 50,000-word requirement. I fail to see how technique figures into the mix.
Here is what I propose. I invite the group to vote on my entry. You be the judges. Is it "A Novel" or "Not a Novel"? If the "Not a Novel" votes prevail, then I will consider my "Winner" status to be revoked. I will reset my word validator to zero tomorrow evening and delete the "Winner" icon from my web site. Let the voting begin!
----------Mark Leach
800,854 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 19 46
It's not technique....
let me ask you this
of the 2.5 million words that you have written...how many of them are from your own head, from your own imagination, and not from some other source?
For me, all 735,032 words that I've written so far this month, have been my own. I've copy-pasted from nowhere.
If you can say that you have written at least 50,000 words of original prose within that novel, then I vote that you keep the novel. If you can't, then I vote that you revoke the status.
--------------
2005: won!
2006: won!
2007: won!
2008: Lost Years quintet
http://kateness.wordpress.com
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 12
It's all from my imagination! Let me ask you this: If I entered an upside down toilet in an art exhibition and labeled it "Fountain," would it be art?
----------Mark Leach
50,053 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 31
I think a more appropriate comparison would be this:
If I took a recording of Luciano Pavarotti and played it over the loudspeakers while standing on stage at the Metropolitan Opera and mouthing the words, would I be considered an opera singer?
----------"Don't get it right, just get it written." - James Thurber
800,854 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 31
In my honest opinion...no.
And I don't see how you can claim copying-and-pasting things from the internet is your imagination
--------------
2005: won!
2006: won!
2007: won!
2008: Lost Years quintet
http://kateness.wordpress.com
162,395 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 41
*swats Kateness* Back to writing all your original words, you. :P
----------Nanos attempted and won: 4
JanNos attempted and won: 3
Collective word count: 547k
Ending or bust!
50,168 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 43
If Duchamp had entered the Fountain in a competition asking for sculptures of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary,
a) would it be accepted (not as art, but as within the parameters of that particular competition )
b) would you be able to compare the achievement to the hand-crafted work of the sculptors
NaNoWriMo isn't asking you to write. NaNoWriMo is asking you to write something completely original (ie you've never written it before), and only count the words you personally wrote in the month of November,
Asking people to judge the status of what you've done is not the point here. And if you've copy/pasted so much that there aren't 50k original words written by you, then it doesn't count within the parameters of NaNoWriMo, and though you can keep your winner's badge, people aren't going to be happy about it. No one can stop you.
50,236 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 20 45
Agreed.
Pulling words from the net does not count.
If everyone did that, the 50,000 words goal would becom pointless.
----------"In music, you can't just escape when something is beautiful" -Ray Charles
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 21 01
Basefulmuse -- your comparison does not hold water. I've already told the group that I put the original text through cut-up engines, Markov generators, etc. So the words come out different than they go in. How is that lip synching? Maybe a better musical comparison would be digital sampling. Pieces of one or more recordings are reassembled and combined with new material to create an original composition.
----------Mark Leach
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 21 09
Oh nice, Lauren. So first I post the title of my novel and web link, then the moderator banishes me to the marketing forum. So I apologize and don't do it again. But no -- according to you I'm still in the wrong.
Anyone who wants to read my novel can find the link in the marketing forum. The subject line is exactly the same as this one. (Parenthetical aside: I marvel that the moderator isn't going to put up with any self-promotion, but apparently doesn't have a problem with characterizing someone as a cheater as long as you don't use the "cheater" word. ) Anyway, I assume we can consider your vote is "Not a Novel."
----------Mark Leach
50,091 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 21 11
From the Codes of Conduct :
Do ignore cheaters and trolls
The purpose of the shoutouts forum is to celebrate people's accomplishments, not debate their validity.
----------
--
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator - Broke? You can still donate!
Couldn't verify your winning novel? Contact the general hotline for help.
50,157 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 22 54
Does it MATTER?
marienbadmylove, congratulations. It's your concern and no one else's how you got there. :]
----------'06 - Ketchup: 21,000 words. '07 - Toast: 35,500 words.
NaNo journal of craziness for '07 and '08: http://flavour-of-nano.livejournal.com
50,616 / 50,000
Nov 29, 2008 - 23 04
Well, congratulations-- 2.5 million? I could only dream. :]
One question--how many pages was it?
----------Those who write have The Power. Those who read just get to bask in our glory....
57,252 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 00 19
In order to compile so many words in such a short time, Leach leaned heavily on the Internet. He generated what he calls a “non-linear literary collage” by mining various blogs, chat rooms and fan fiction sites, grabbing whatever words caught his eye.
“The talk pages of Wikipedia and the reader comments on io9.com were my absolute favorites,” he said. “These are my people. I shamelessly plagiarized their words -- even their misspellings and gramatical errors -- at every opportunity, combining the anonymous messages with recycled content from ‘Marienbad My Love’ and entries from my dream journal. I repeatedly cut and pasted and searched and replaced, transforming the various writings into a completely new and unique literary work.”
Would've been nice if you'd actually done any writing.
----------50,052 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 00 43
Congrats. I'm surprised it took you so long ;) ----------
2004 - The Vision (lost)
2002 - Six Months (won)
300,283 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 02 22
I haven't seen you on the forums... wow.
You people scare me.
How are your wrists feeling?
----------Lithy's Shoppe:
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=2953967
Lithy's Blog:
http://fictionalworlds.net
50,082 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 04 32
*message was troll-food. Sorry.*
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 05 31
Mathieu A., are you saying my message was troll-food?
----------Mark Leach
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 07 52
Thanks for the congratulations from maddy.hatter and others.
Regarding length, the page count is about 3,700 words -- 3,692 to be exact. It's single spaced, so if I were to put this into a more traditional manuscript form I assume it would be closer to 7,500 words.
----------Mark Leach
999,999 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 06 17
Hope everyone is having a nice Sunday/last day of the contest. Overnight the moderator sent me a nice message explaining that "shoutout" is not the right place to ask for a vote. So I hereby withdraw that request, though I'm still totally open to hearing more reasons why my creation is "A Novel" or "Not a Novel" (though I rechecked the Rules and Regs and am confident that I have a legitimate entry) and will gladly respond to any questions or concerns. If you just want to express your own opinion as to the validity of my work, I'll read it with quiet interest. During the past few days I have been enjoying the "shoutouts" board. It seemed like a place where people could celebrate with other like-minded folk. Now that we're at the end of the contest nerve endings may be somewhat frayed. I do understand the emotions that may be driving some of these posts. I wish everyone the best.
----------Mark Leach
50,109 / 50,000
Nov 30, 2008 - 07 22
i fail to see why everyone is getting so bent out of shape. if you don't like the duchamp exhibit at the art gallery, then don't go to see it. if you don't like what's on the station, change the channel. if you like what the OP did, then stroke his ego here, and if you think he's a d-bag or a cheater, then go about creating your own art and don't waste your time on this. this project is not about competition, it's about self-edification, so therefore all of our opinions are irrelevant. i wrote something that i'm extremely proud of, and i could care less what anyone else did or if it "counts".
----------"the difference between the almost right word & the right word is really a large matter--it's the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning."
- mark twain
http://noweekwillbewasted.proboards.com/
999,999 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 02 32
well done hunnie ^^ dunno how you did it.. i used up most of my free time to get where i got... and THAT was tough.... and my arms are feeling a bit like lead too.... want to schleep but can't....
----------The Official Elementalists' Site (flash)
The Lie
52,010 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 07 17
Hmm. I don't think it's a novel so much as a couple of million words worth of, well, cut and paste and mutilated stuff from other people. For example, if I grab a newspaper article and shift the sentences around, that won't make the stuff my writing, will it? It would be, I think, the cut and paste and mutilated results of my looking around the Internet for various things to cut and paste and mutilate.
Anyway, the product of such a thing can hardly be called a story, though I think I would need to read the work in question to be able to deduce if it meets the common elements of a story, which for me usually includes a plot or story and characters. But if the OP managed to fill in 50k words with her own typing, then I suppose that means she managed to meet the word count requirement. Though it would still not necessarily mean that it is a novel.
Basically, I think my point is: When you grab an article from the internet and move words and sentences around, none of the words are still yours. It is like Tom getting a painting by John, Tom cutting it around and pasting the parts to a board in a different order, and calling it Tom's Painting. It is not Tom's Painting. It is Tom Cutting John's Painting Around And Calling It His.
----------/o/
50,871 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 09 13
Good god.
----------"But it must be remembered that it was in the era of the Senate that the aforesaid and later mentioned personages lived and quarrelled; good or bad, handsome or ugly, rich or poor, they are all equal now."
(The Editor, end of Memoirs of Arbuthnot Light
52,909 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 09 29
Sorry, while this is an impressive feat, I don't think it fits in NaNoWriMo. No way does it sound like a novel.
I'm not even sure how you could have read the text your system produced, which almost seems a necessity if your doing a cut-up. How can you select, without reading both the selected and unselected?
162,395 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 10 05
Do ignore cheaters and trolls
Every year, we get dozens of posts accusing others of cheating at NaNoWriMo. Please—don't worry about cheaters. NaNoWriMo is an honor-system challenge; no one is cheating anyone but themselves if they don't write the novel they said they wrote.
If you see a post that you suspect is a troll (i.e. someone posting something deliberately inflammatory just to get a rise out of people), please do not engage them. Just let it go, they'll move along without any feedback.
The purpose of the shoutouts forum is to celebrate people's accomplishments, not debate their validity.
Guys, if you don't think it's legit, then just don't give it any attention. There are plenty of other threads that can use the hurrahs. :/
______
----------Nanos attempted and won: 4
JanNos attempted and won: 3
Collective word count: 547k
Ending or bust!
Nanos attempted and won: 4
JanNos attempted and won: 3
Collective word count: 547k
Ending or bust!
38,438 / 50,000
Dec 1, 2008 - 16 20
3,700 pages...
The poor rainforest...