I just read this thread, and it made me very angry. So, here, have a rant.
If you ask me, the idea that we CANNOT submit 50,000 words of creative non-fiction and still ACTUALLY win NaNoWriMo is utter crap.
Take a look, for example, at New Journalism, a style of writing that emerged in the 60s and 70s in America. These authors wrote books that were technically non-fiction, as they were HEAVILY based on real things that happened, but they utilized literary techniques previously only seen in fiction. In the crazy falling apart world of the 1960s, they felt that American culture was no longer an easily definable space of knowable value, simple enough to be wrapped up in a pat fiction novel. The popular conversation of America within the novel had been degrading for a while. In a time and place so crazy and out of sync with itself, the New Journalists felt that there was no need to make stuff up in order to be valid and creative. There could be no Great American Novel because fiction was simply not enough to support analysis of a failed American dream.
Isn't our current situation (at least in this country) similar to that of the 60s? We are a nation in crisis, protests a-plenty, disillusionment with the way things are run and done. Doesn't non-fiction in this time almost carry more weight than fiction?
Fiction uses elements of real life, changed enough to be…well, fiction. Non-fiction takes elements of fiction and uses it to write about real life. In creative non-fiction, details are embellished and even made up in order to make the situation described seem more real. Who is to say that this doesn't make a book of creative non-fiction a novel? Are you going to say that Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" isn't a novel? What about works by David Sedaris and Hunter S. Thompson? They're all purportedly non-fiction, but does that make them invalid as "novels"?
The line between the fictional novel and creative non-fiction is blurred at best, perhaps even nonexistent. Why is the author who tells their life story with fairies instead of people more valid than the author who keeps things ever so slightly closer to reality? Who is to say that this sort of creative storytelling of the real isn't just another type of novel?
Above all, isn't it pretty cruel and close-minded to say that we, as writers of creative non-fiction, don't count as novelists to the extent that we cannot even submit our works to NaNoWriMo for a REAL and TECHNICAL victory?
I am going to make an attempt at writing 50,000 words of creative non-fiction for NaNoWriMo, which I have never won in the six years I've tried it by writing fiction. And if I actually finish, I will submit it, validate it, and wear my purple bar with pride—and you should too.
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50,005 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 15 33
The rule is, If you consider the book you're writing a novel, we consider it a novel too!
If you don't, well, no biggie. You're a rebel. You still get the book out of it in the end ... isn't that the awesome part?
If you do, well I hope this is the winning year for you.
----------NaNoWriMo & ScriptFrenzy Staff
0 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 16 08
See, that's VERY different than what was being said over in this thread, where people kept telling chet-a-box that she couldn't "technically" win NaNoWriMo if she wrote about pandas.
54,184 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 16 08
Would you be angry if you ran a marathon, presented yourself in Boston on Race Day, and was told that in fact you could not win the Boston Marathon because you ran another race entirely?
This is the same. For the purposes of our challenge, we require that your work be fiction. Is it an arbitrary rule? Sure! But it's the rules of the challenge as we've had for years. The rule that you have to be in Boston to run the Boston marathon is arbitrary, too.
If you complete 50,000 words of creative nonfiction you have a lot to be proud of. The REAL prize of NaNoWriMo isn't the printable certificate or the web badges... it's the novel at the end. But if you don't stick by those arbitrary rules of our arbitrary challenge... well, you're not really winning the challenge. If you still want to validate int he end, well, no one's stopping you. And no one will check up.
----------Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
I use Liquid Story Binder to write my novels.
54,184 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 16 10
It has nothing to do with the pandas. It's the "non-fiction" part.
------------
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator - Broke? You can still donate!
Couldn't verify your winning novel? Contact the general hotline for help.
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
I use Liquid Story Binder to write my novels.
0 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 16 51
Well, I guessed that much, I'm not an idiot. I didn't think you guys discriminated against pandas. Everyone loves pandas, that would be ridiculous.
The race metaphor is really poorly thought out. I'm not writing my novel for a different contest and then showing up here. I'm writing it in a different way. So if I ran your marathon backwards, and I crossed the finish line, would anyone really tell me that my win was invalid just because I did it differently? No.
As it clearly states in the official rules, which even cybele mentioned, even though YOUR definition of a novel is fiction, MINE isn't, and that's what counts when it comes to winning. So stop acting like if I validate my NON-FICTION NOVEL, I'll be some awful and immoral person for cheating the system.
50,005 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 16 56
You're right.
We don't care what you write. It's right up there in the FAQ too, your novel can be about anything. (It can even be about true things.)
It's an honor system thing anyway ... so if you think we're writing a novel, then so do we. (Unless you tell me you're not. Because it's on the honor system, and if you tell me something then I'm going to believe you. )
----------NaNoWriMo & ScriptFrenzy Staff
5,510 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 17 10
I'm just weighing in to say that there is a very good chance that at least some of my NaNo this year will be creative nonfiction, and I have absolutely no qualms about verifying it. It would have the trappings and the style of a novel, and a lot of it would be fiction anyway. This has pretty much been already said, but just to add my voice to the others in support of this.
----------54,184 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 17 35
The NaNoWriMo definition of a novel is a lengthy work of fiction. No one is acting like you're an immoral person; you're just a rebel. If we didn't want you guys around, we wouldn't have a whole forum for you, now would we? There's really no reason to be angry or upset; we're not telling anyone they can't participate.
------------
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator - Broke? You can still donate!
Couldn't verify your winning novel? Contact the general hotline for help.
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
I use Liquid Story Binder to write my novels.
50,407 / 50,000
Oct 2, 2009 - 17 59
As it clearly states in the official rules, which even cybele mentioned, even though YOUR definition of a novel is fiction, MINE isn't, and that's what counts when it comes to winning. So stop acting like if I validate my NON-FICTION NOVEL, I'll be some awful and immoral person for cheating the system.
No one is telling you that you're an immoral or awful person. If you want to validate, then press the validate button. If you felt that you wrote a novel, and it's something that you're proud of, then no one is certainly going to stop you. Don't make yourself out to be a martyr. :) We'll still be cheering for you at the finish line.
----------51,338 / 50,000
Oct 3, 2009 - 07 11
Cheating the system?
----------Purrlease.
What about all those NaNo novels that involve a lot of fourth wall breaking and random bits of information? They're still novels by the "system".
You seem to have blown things out of proportion here, there's no need to be so angry when teh site actually embraces the "Rebels."
My banner doesn't work, so there!
Happy now, internet?
Are you happy now?!
0 / 50,000
Oct 3, 2009 - 11 04
So I'm really the only one interpreting this as...you know, a claim that I'm not "really winning the challenge" if I write non-fiction?
Whatever, I'm over it.
50,407 / 50,000
Oct 3, 2009 - 11 40
Look at it this way; NaNoWriMo is mostly about a personal challenge and commitment to yourself. You give yourself the challenge "I WILL write 50k on this *insert story here*", and you make the commitment to hold true to that challenge. If you have sucessfully competed what you PERSONALLY challeged yourself through the month of November, then you should be able to wear that "WON!" purple banner with pride.
Does it really matter what we think in the long run? Of course not :) All that matters is that you finished something you're proud of, whether it be a biography, a creative nonfiction, a fiction novel, or a fanfiction.
----------18,230 / 50,000
Oct 3, 2009 - 18 42
Just to add to this I would like to point out that in the actual forum description for the Nano Rebels it includes the line "non-fiction about turtles" so surely that is a gesture of acceptance if nothing else.
Also it could be argued that the line between fiction and non-fiction is very blurry indeed, how many works of "non-fiction" turn out to be more fictional than anything else. I remember studying the ancient writers llike Suetonius whose accounts of the lives of the roman emperors veered much towards gossip, scandal and fictionalised accounts rather than sticking to any nothions of facts.
In an auto-biography with pandas who is to say that the author won't pick and choose the events they wish to present based on the view they wish audiences to construct about themselves...
Also how many of us turn around and write novels which are really based on our own experiences but we've just made the characters a little differently to try and conceal who its really based on.
Anyway I've been around here for a few years now and I always thought the aim was to try and whack out 50,000 words to prove to yourself you can write solidly for a committed period of time and if you didn't end up with a finished novel at the end that was okay you were still a winner... so whats the difference there then between someone with a 50,000 book on their experiences of pandas then a 50,000 word mess that is not identifiable as a finished novel by any stretch of the imagination?
----------__________________________
- words dancing in the wind, scattered into sentences, blown into my mind -
54,184 / 50,000
Oct 4, 2009 - 16 08
So I'm really the only one interpreting this as...you know, a claim that I'm not "really winning the challenge" if I write non-fiction?
Whatever, I'm over it.
It's not really a claim. ;) It's in the rules. Ultimately, we don't care, we don't check. But if you ask... well, that's the answer you'll get. We're really not telling you that you can't participate, but I'm not sure why you're upset that some things are against the rules and some aren't. Go ahead, write non-fiction, validate if you want to. The only one that affects is you.
----------Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
I use Liquid Story Binder to write my novels.
0 / 50,000
Oct 4, 2009 - 17 33
calm. the *bleep*. down.
----------*
How inappropriate that this planet be called Earth, when it should clearly be called Ocean.
0 / 50,000
Oct 5, 2009 - 18 34
No one actually cares about what you write but yourself, until you make them care. And if the idea of NaNoWriMo inspires you in some way? Go ahead. Start having fun! It could be NAtional NOnfiction WRIting MOnth as far as you're concerned. Wheeeeeeeeeeee yay!
Though admittedly, I had significant difficulty writing just plain historical fiction one year because the heavy deadline and the emphasis on bulk word count isn't very conducive to careful research. I was able to get the words in because I could just pad it out with barfights or whatever for a couple days while I was looking up more stuff for the historically meatier bits. Whereas with non-fiction, the meatier bits are the entire thing, so um, yeah.
But seriously, the persecution complex? Please to be knocking it off.
----------I'm happy
Hope you're happy too . . .
50,017 / 50,000
Oct 6, 2009 - 10 22
If there is a race rule about running backwards, then you won't get a medal (or official time) for running backwards. Or if you stray from the official course. Or if you run the course outside of the allotted time period. Or if you break any of the other race rules. Guess what? the race director gets to decide the rules, and what qualifies. Further, *I* can't run the Boston Marathon because I am too slow. According to their rules, I would have to qualify by running a sanctioned marathon in 3:40:59 or less, and I have not done that. Do I cry and complain about how unfair and discriminatory they are? No, I run a different race and hope someday to meet Boston's standards. You can call it discrimination all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if you want to play, you play by the rules.
Nanowrimo is in fact much more forgiving... they even provide space for people who want to colour outside of the lines. So I'm not sure what the problem is...
42,649 / 50,000
Oct 8, 2009 - 15 58
If there is a race rule about running backwards, then you won't get a medal (or official time) for running backwards. Or if you stray from the official course. Or if you run the course outside of the allotted time period. Or if you break any of the other race rules. Guess what? the race director gets to decide the rules, and what qualifies. Further, *I* can't run the Boston Marathon because I am too slow. According to their rules, I would have to qualify by running a sanctioned marathon in 3:40:59 or less, and I have not done that. Do I cry and complain about how unfair and discriminatory they are? No, I run a different race and hope someday to meet Boston's standards. You can call it discrimination all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if you want to play, you play by the rules.
Nanowrimo is in fact much more forgiving... they even provide space for people who want to colour outside of the lines. So I'm not sure what the problem is...
hahaha hvipond, how did I know you'd be weighing in on the running analogy? ;)
On the otherhand, I know of someone who certainly is fast enough to run the Boston Marathon, but he wouldn't just run it, he'd "joggle" it (running a marathon while juggling three balls)...and he'd likely win too. Some might consider joggling to be against the rules...I'm not sure what the BAA (Boston Athletic Association) officially says about joggling their race, but I think the point here is that it is all about perspective.
Write your piece, run your race, however you please. No one will stop you. In the end, only your conscious will know if you feel you deserve your NaNoWriMo winner's badge. None of us really care...we are too busy writing/running our own race.
See you at the finish line!
51,725 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 04 42
I am also semi-planning to write a fictionalized biography of an actual person. Should I succeed, well, I'll just 'cheat' and validate. It will be an achievement all in itself. For the most part it will be completely fictitious, and I can research and add stuff starting in December. NaNo gets the ball rolling, the validating and making it to 50K is just fun. I have no qualms about that. ;-)
----------The pages are still blank, but there is a miraculous feeling of the words being there, written in invisible ink and clamoring to become visible. -V. Nabokov
50,006 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 10 32
Nanowrimo is based on the honour system.
If I entered a contest knowing that I would not comply with the rules
If I claimed victory with something not compliant with the rules
What is the value of my honour?
Just my 2 cents worth.
----------Returning Inanna
51,151 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 01 19
on one hand i think the original poster is over reacting just a tad. On the other hand i actually read the other threat that was linked. It was worded rather badly and sounded quite rude. I was rather shocked that an ML would be so.... impolite. not the right word but i cant think of the right one. I know that they are volunteers and not staff but still...
5,510 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 13 47
I basically agree with everything you said here. The OP for this thread is overreacting a bit, but the mod's response in the other thread was also a bit harsh, as well.
----------50,093 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 15 37
I don't think that the NaNoWriMo's philosophy has a hard and fast rule that the work must be fiction. That fact that they encourage unstructured and nonsensical writing should indicate that. What the intention is, is to get the writer pounding out 50,000 words of something. In any case, this is a "honor" project, and therefore whether one wins or loses will be dictated by conscience.
For myself, I am just going to write, stream of consciousness style, mostly truth, but, when it suits my purpose, a lot of B.S. I suspect that by that process I'll produce at least the framework for a novel.
I am working on a novel at the present time, and have been for several years. And that I think has been the problem. Ideally, I would have written the essence of the book in a brief time, without being concerned about quality of writing. I've been at it so long the story has gotten stale.
Another point about writing a fiction novel, as opposed to non-fiction. I suspect that the best way for an editor to pare down an overlong memoir would be to eliminate all that is exaggerated or flat out made up. I suspect, after that, the tome might fall short of 50,000.
0 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 17 20
Well, I'd like to know exactly who you think will be reading over your shoulder to determine what you're writing? Personally, if I wanted to write a 50,000 word grocery list and could do it with creative abandon, I'd do it. It's about challenging yourself and having fun, so write whatever you want and just be content that you wrote 50,000 words in 30 days. Poof! See you at the finish line!
----------Read, write, scream. Repeat.
62,335 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 18 26
I have been outlining a non-fiction "instructional" type of book during October and wasn't really all that happy with it. I mean, the material, information-wise is excellent, but, let's face it, instructional. Which means.....somewhat boring in my mind. I learned of Nanowrimo only a few days ago and it has really opened up some creative flood gates for me and my "instructional" outline.
I'm not entirely certain where this new idea is going to land, whether in the boundaries of a traditional Nano novel or if it will fall here, into the realm of the Rebels.
I love taking the serious, instructional and turning it into something more inspirational, thought- and action-provoking for my readers than the mundane non-fiction approach. Everyone remembers things better if there is a good story to go with it or
if it IS the story.....even better!!
Which means......it will be instructional fiction. I think.
LOL!!! You tell me!
And honestly, I cannot see what the big fuss is. The premise and intent is fiction, but like it has been pointed out so many times......the Rebels have acceptance.
Let's enjoy November, be supportive and have some fun!
----------Good luck everyone!
"Einstein may have believed that God doesn't play dice, but God need not conform to Einstein's beliefs. " ~from phylm.com
29,242 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 23 46
Some of NaNo's rules are stupid and arbitrary. Therefore I am a NaNo pirate on principle. As a NaNo pirate I have only one rule:
I will write 50,000 original words during the month of November.
It's quite possible that this year all my words will be for a single work of fiction that I haven't worked on before--but maybe instead I'll add a few chapters to a work in progress and do a few short stories too. Either way I'll be writing fresh words and not editing old stuff. Editing is for December.
If you want to be a law-abiding citizen of NaNo land, go for it. On the other hand why not join me and become a NaNo pirate. I have a NaNo pirate song. I should record it and post the link.
54,184 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 09 19
I basically agree with everything you said here. The OP for this thread is overreacting a bit, but the mod's response in the other thread was also a bit harsh, as well.
I'm genuinely curious, what about the responses you saw over there raised flags as "harsh"? It was a simple factual statement. I saw nothing that could be construed as rude, unless you are in fact looking to take offense.
Rude is: "Of course not, how could you possibly think it was? can't you read?"
Rude is not: "Sorry, but the rules say no."
----------Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
I use Liquid Story Binder to write my novels.
51,151 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 18 41
I basically agree with everything you said here. The OP for this thread is overreacting a bit, but the mod's response in the other thread was also a bit harsh, as well.
I'm genuinely curious, what about the responses you saw over there raised flags as "harsh"? It was a simple factual statement. I saw nothing that could be construed as rude, unless you are in fact looking to take offense.
Rude is: "Of course not, how could you possibly think it was? can't you read?"
Rude is not: "Sorry, but the rules say no."
no as a matter of fact i did not read it looking to take offense. though honestly i find the implication a bit rude you are untitled to think what you will. As am i and my opinion is that it was rude. I understand that was not the intent but in my opinion it was badly worded. I came of sounding like.... yes you can do it but its not worth as much as some thing other people write cause its not a "novel". Which i realise is the rules, but still. I don't like to see other people having their ideas shot down. I think this should be about what you want to write. Not what other people think you should write. If it were up to me that rule would be adjusted. Just my opinion.
not trying to sound combative, just don't like the implication of your post. I respect your right to disagree with me all you like.
53,074 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 20 25
That would be a LOT of groceries.
----------Municipal Liaison for Australia and New Zealand :: Melbourne
Moderator for Games, Diversions, and Other Exciting Forms of Procrastination
6,492 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 20 53
I think the OP is wrong to be offended. Perhaps it would be more constructive to dedicate April as "Write 50k words of whatever you want month" Wri50WoWhaYoWaMo? As this site is dedicated to National NOVEL Writing Month, I think it makes sense that "winners" should have to write a novel. I am not playing by the rules as I am continuing a novel I'm already working on. I am a rebel. I will be a "winner" in my own mind if I finish this blasted thing. It doesn't make me less successful to not get a little badge for my profile. I swear, having a finished manuscript is WAY more important to me. As it should be to any writer. So if you write 50K words of creative fiction or instructional material or a really long grocery list, then you have succeeded in accomplishing something great. So it's not a novel, and it doesn't qualify for National NOVEL Writing Month - do you care? You just wrote a creative non-fiction book - what's more important than that?
----------Eileen
Web Administrator and Freelance Writer
http://www.scribeseeker.com
1st NaNoWriMo - 2009 - "Better"
[img]http://www.latercomics.com/nano/nanorebel.png[/img]