I've been debating whether or not my story will end up an adult romance/fantasy, or a Older Teen YA book, and right now, the deciding factor is dependent on how much (I guess descriptive?) sex is considered to be reasonable in a book for older teens. I'm wracking my brain for all the YA books I've ever read, and can't seem to think of a sex scene in any of them that wasn't unpleasant, or brushed over, or in the past. For example:
Gingerbread: Cyd Charisse mentions her past abortion, and her previous boyfriend, as well as a few other encounters with her boyfriend Shrimp. Nothing is ever in detail (that I can recall)
Perks of being a Wallflower: There are two scenes described that I can recall, and both were forced.
Twilight series: There really are no sex scenes in this series, excepting the last book, and even then it's more of a 'recall' from what I understand. I didn't outright read the book, but I did read snippets over the internet, and from what I can tell, Bella woke up bruised, and with a broken headboard at least once. Not exactly what I'd call pleasant, or loving, or even entirely realistic. (Holy ow, batman, that's a little much straight out of the gate.)
Flowers in the Attic: Incest [Didn't read this one either]
Vegan Virgin Valentine: One sexual scene, probably the most 'pleasant' one here in that both characters involved cared deeply for each other, decided their limits before, and enjoyed themselves.
Speak: Entire story about a rape victim
Princess Diaries: I can't recall sex actually happening in the novels, although (if I remember right) Princess Mia tried very hard for a book to make *it* happen.
Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist: Again no sex that I can remember, but one important kissing scene.
Confessions of Georgia Nicolson: None that I can recall...just loads of 'sex god' nicknames and jokes about 'basoomas' and a numbered scale ranging from 0-10 I believe.
City of Bones: None, guy whom the FMC had a crush on turned out to be her brother, or something...
Etc.
So I have a few questions:
Does anyone know of any YA books where sex is portrayed in a healthy manner? I don't care about sexual orientation involved, I just want to know if there is a such thing a well-handled sex scene for older teen YA books.
Should sex and love (and the *combination* of the two) be potrayed for teens? Is it unacceptable, or just 'not done' at the moment? Do you feel there is a reason why YA romance (or not romance, as some of the cases above may be) shys away from something many/most older teens relate to/will experience/have experienced/desire to experience?
If you don't think sex has a place in older YA novels, why? Do you think there's a reason why the scenes that *are* portrayed in full tend to be scenes of things that are viewed as wrong in society? (ie, rape, incest, sexual harassment, and so on.)
Is this tendency necessarily better or worse than not portraying sexual relationships at all? Would it be a 'good' thing for teens to recognize what a healthy sex scene would be like, or is that inappropriate for a YA novel (and maybe better suited for something else?)
Thanks!
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5,510 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 20 06
Forever by Judy Blume has at least one, if not more sex scenes, and it's a YA book. I don't actually like this book much, I think the characters actually acted a bit silly, but it's a good example of what you're looking for.
Sold by Patricia McCormick is about forced prostitution, so there's definitely sex, but it's done very tastefully and it's from the point of view of a younger person, so it's not in the most graphic of terms.
Teach Me by R. A. Nelson might have had a sex scene in it; I don't remember for sure. A big plot point is the narrator loosing her virginity; I'm just not sure if we see the actual scene or not. It might be one of those fade-to-black deals.
In the last Princess Diaries book, Mia has sex, but it's talked about in a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, blink and you'll miss it sort of way.
I'll comment if I think of more.
----------26,000 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 20 25
Ah, see prostitution (especially forced) is exactly what I am *not* looking for.
Same, I think with *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* kind of stuff. I'm looking for an honest no-fade-to-black scene with a healthy relationship involved. If that doesn't happen in YA for older teens, or is considered taboo, I'd like to know too. I assume Forever is probably the closest to this(?) even if it wasn't your style.
----------80,099 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 20 35
None readily come to mind, but check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young-adult_fiction#Edgy_content that. Some of the books are labeled with 'sex' of some kind, so try looking through those? A lot of them also have a label like 'drugs' or 'suicide', though.
Can't we just have one story with a functional teenage relationship where they happen to be having sex? I mean honestly.
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26,000 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 20 54
Can't we just have one story with a functional teenage relationship where they happen to be having sex? I mean honestly.
That's actually why I started this thread! I want to write what I hope will be a functional (loving) if not still troubled by surrounding events/plot so on, older teen relationship. I think one of the major moments will *have* to include a first
time sex scene, and I quickly realized (with some dismay) that it's very hard to find a sex scene that doesn't have some major negative connotations attatched, like drugs or suicide. I haven't worked everything out yet, of course, but I have decided my Older teen characters will have sex (They'd be about the bottom of the normal marrying age in their world.)
I think they may get into trouble if they get caught, but the relationship itself is something I want to strive to have be normal(ish)
----------80,099 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 21 08
Ah-hah. The main characters of my NaNovel this year are actually from a series of stories I'm writing on my FictionPress account (they're fun to write, but not exactly publishing material and I'm too attached at this point to do anything directly with those). The couple actually started having sex near the end of the first story. I never write them actually doing it, though... and I don't know how I'll handle it in my novel since the situations change dramatically. Hmm.
----------Click the banner to read my novel blog.
27,361 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 21 45
*thinks about this* Let's see, the romantic couple in this world that I'm writing in *has* good sex (granted, they're married at that point), but their first time is absolutely horrible. And...no, wait, that goes for last year's NaNo too. (There's a discussion of why two of the characters AREN'T having sex, though under normal circumstances they would...but no one gets any. Oops.)
I guess part of the reason so many YA novels involve sex having negative consequences is because oftentimes teenagers have sex without really considering the consequences? And even if they do, the relationship doesn't necessarily last, and so the fallout from breaking up with, maybe, the person you gave your virginity to can be painful.
Also, frankly, it's probably *easier* to write horrible sex than it is to write good sex that doesn't go into the realm of too-explicit-for-YA. I mean, if it's good sex, then there's not necessarily much to talk about--I myself generally only write sex scenes when there's something important happening between the two characters, some sort of change. Whereas if people are just sleeping together and it's going well, there's less to explore.
Now, if you were to write a really awkward-but-they-love-each-other teenage sex scene, that would be good--that would also probably be the most realistic. I don't know if you saw the film Jennifer's Body, but there's one between the main character and her boyfriend that I think would fall under the category of what you're looking for (well, until she starts seeing dead people, but that's more of a genre thing).
I feel like I am not responding in a very coherent manner because it is late at night, so I will probably return to this tomorrow. But thanks for raising the topic! I hadn't realized how few good YA sex scenes there are. Huh.
----------NaNo 2006 winner
NaNo 2007 failure, due to the flu
NaNo 2008 winner, due to lack of internet
26,000 / 50,000
Oct 9, 2009 - 22 43
Oh, I don't mean good sex as in not awkward/painful/weird/fumbling stuff, I just meant genuine "I'm doing this because I like you/love you/care for you/want to do it with you." It probably will be very 'new' and slow, and not at all perfect. (That's far too easy, I think.)
When you return, will you expand on the "Too much for YA" idea? What is considered to be "Too much"?
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Oct 10, 2009 - 04 13
I dunno, all I really did in my last year's YA, which was in first person, was "Last night I dated Heather, and we had sex." And that's about all the detail it went into. Although I do have some scenes where one guy is describing his BDSM contract to another, and another scene where one guy is holding his significant other upside down and the significant other is using a safeword to make him stop. o__0 My MC's couple wasn't really healthy, it was a 700 year old vampire in a 26 year old's body, who actually acted 700, with an 18 year old boy who was a virgin and very immature/innocent for his age overall, acted really more like 15. o___0
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Oct 10, 2009 - 06 43
As long as you avoid descriptive terms such as 'massive' and 'throbbing'...
Okay. Being serious now. Let's make the statement that books are not only compared to reality, but instead, they represent reality. So take the YA genre, and it's portrayal of sex. More often than not, we see such negative views of sex in YA... and a major problem there is that most people that read YA are teenagers. I'll even make the statement that this genre has more female readers than male.
So take the typical portrayal of teenage sex: as above posters have said, we've got our prostitution, our rape victims, and our drug-and-alcohol, all tying back into sex. There is hardly a time in YA lit that we see the standard, two teenagers, who are in love, and decide that they are ready to move forward in their relationship and do it. I wouldn't even say that the sex in Twilight coincides with this... are they not in a psychologically abusive relationship in which in order for Bella to get what she wants (sex) she *has* to marry Edward, even though she doesn't want to? That doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me.
Now we factor in the reader. If YA is dominated by teenage females, then what exactly have we been exposing our readers to? Although I am a teenager myself, I fully acknowledge that this is an impressionable age. So let's say you've got a teen, let's call her Sarah. Sarah reads young adult, but the only portrayals of sex she encounters are negative. I'm also going to make a bold statement here, and I think that most people *want to read a sex scene* (gasp!) So you've got Sarah, who may or may not be a hopeless romantic, and she reads and reads but never encounters what so many of us want to see: a relationship between two teenagers that shows sex in a healthy way. Instead, she sees all the bad stuff.
I wonder, if girls in reality rush into sex when they're not ready, because they want the first time to be perfect, because we have an idealized version of what "perfect sex" might be, but we also have a frame of mind as to what bed sex is. If I had spent years reading books addressing "bad sex", who knows? What if I took what I thought might be the perfect opportunity for my first time, and it ended up being a mistake. I don't really think I'm expressing this well, but... I just wonder. We all know that countless girls will rush into things that they're not ready for. And I think that this can relate.
So now, we take your novel. Two teenagers, in a healthy relationship. And they have sex, because they love each other and trust each other and they believe that it is right for them. Totally fine. And I think that this will also set a good example. Not only do you have a portrayal of good sex, but you'll have the message that without this strong foundation of the relationship first, it could not have been good. Which can convey the message: being in a relationship first is good.
Of course, I'm extremely biased, and in no way is this true for everyone. But still, I think that you're going in the right direction. As for what's right to put and what's not, that's all relative. You could describe something explicitly, and someone would love it. Or you could do fade to black, and inevitably, someone would still get offended that you touched on such an inappropriate subject. I think it has more to do with what you're comfortable writing, and, if you were reading, what would you be comfortable with as a reader?
If it were me, I would just want it to be real. I don't want flowery vocabulary or other craziness and chaos. Just reality.
PS - Sorry 'bout the essay ;)
80,099 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 07 42
Actually, Graffigraphy made me think of another example, though it's not what you want since it's a fade-to-black situation: the sequel to Meg Cabot's All American Girl has them have sex in the end. The whole book is dealing with her realizing that they've been together for a while and that maybe she's ready, but oh, what does she do? And then there's the fact that she's going out with the president's son, and the president is against sex before marriage entirely, so she ends up making a fool of herself even before they actually do the deed.
Not to mention the fact that she had assumed she was invited to Camp David with him because her boyfriend wanted to have sex, so when she goes over with the contraception her sister gave her, her boyfriend is just a little confused. And it wasn't perfect, but she was happy with it.
Yeah, it's been a while since I've read that book.
----------Click the banner to read my novel blog.
28,907 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 07 47
Just to add to the list in the original post, two novels I read this year included consensual sex scenes:
(and btw, SPOILERS!!!)
Twenty Boy Summer, by Sarah Ockler -- The main character loses her virginity to a guy she's met on summer vacation. Some people on Goodreads complained about this scene, but I really liked it. The MC and her best friend were grieving the death of the best friend's older brother, with whom the MC had been in love. MC and best friend meet two guys on the beach, and MC is finally able to open up to this guy, stop living in the past, start really living again. They have sex on the beach -- it's a nice scene. You don't get the "insert tab A into slot B" sort of detail, but you get what the girl is feeling and thinking at the time. She and the guy don't promise to be together forever or anything like that -- she goes back home to the other coast and there's the assumption that she'll keep in touch with beach guy. I wasn't nuts about the book as a whole, but I really liked how the sex was handled. Because -- gasp! -- she enjoyed herself, and she didn't wind up pregnant or dead because of it.
Before I Die, by Jenny Downham -- Oh, this book made me cry buckets. It's gorgeous. From chapter 1, we know the main character is dying of leukemia, and there's a list of things she wants to do before she dies. One is to have sex. And she does, with a random guy she and her friend meet at a club. It's an awkward, unpretty scene. But! Later, the MC winds up starting a relationship with her next-door neighbor. They fall in love, and they have sex. The first sex scene between them is beautiful. It's stream-of-consciousness and, IMO, done perfectly. There's a later scene where the boyfriend gives her oral sex. Again, not described in detail, but we get what the MC is feeling at the time. Amazing book all around.
Also, I haven't read this one yet, but Daria Snadowsky's first novel Anatomy of a Boyfriend has a loss of virginity scene that's apparently sort of an homage to Judy Blume's Forever. The MC is an aspiring medical student, and so she's fascinated with the anatomical detail of the event. ;) I need to pick this one up at the library next time I'm there!
--
I'm not published in YA (yet?) but I have gotten some excellent feedback on my sex scenes from people in the industry (agents, published authors, editors). Both of my works-in-progress have what I would consider to be "healthy" sex scenes -- one is a guy's loss of virginity to his girlfriend, and one is between two girls. I don't go into great detail with the anatomy or anything like that, but I do like to get into the character's head during the event.
----------NaNo '09 - The Understated Unraveling of Mercedes Moreno (rewrite) - YA magic realism
"It'll be smashing this time, I think." -- Elaine Stritch
www.twitter.com/harperkarcz - John Green follows me, and you should too.
5,510 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 08 24
Twenty Boy Summer! I forgot about that one, and I just read it.
But, yeah, OP - Forever is right along the lines of what you're looking for.
----------28,907 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 09 55
Thought of two more while I was out running errands:
Sweethearts, by Sara Zarr -- One of my favorite YA books! There's a very muted, blink-and-you'll-miss-it sex scene between the MC and her boyfriend. Kind of like in Twenty Boy Summer, what's described are more of the feelings and thoughts of the event rather than the physical particulars. It's emotionally uncomfortable for the MC -- she's not really sure why, but it just feels wrong. It's sort of the beginning of the end for her and her boyfriend -- she hadn't been exactly in love with him, but for a long time she did see him as being pretty much perfect.
Shiver, by Maggie Stiefvater -- Excellent fantasy romance. The sex scene is fade-to-black, but it's in the context of an atypical (he's a shapeshifting wolf!) but loving relationship.
Also:
Actually, Norah started giving oral sex to Nick in the ice machine / vending machine room (I think?) at the Marriott Marquis, but then an older couple happened to walk in on them!
----------NaNo '09 - The Understated Unraveling of Mercedes Moreno (rewrite) - YA magic realism
"It'll be smashing this time, I think." -- Elaine Stritch
www.twitter.com/harperkarcz - John Green follows me, and you should too.
26,000 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 11 50
Oooh thanks for the responses guys!:
Veganmacandcheese- Well, I don’t know about anything else, but BDSM with a safeword is generally considered to be in the healthy sexual kinks department. It’s a little (I don’t want to say weird) unusual, but still mainstream knowledge, and if you’re doing it right, completely safe.
Graffigraphy – I agree to most everything you said there. I’m an older teen and while *I’m* not dating anyone at the moment, most (if not all) of my friends are, and are having sex within that relationship. (Several of these have lasted in their relationships throughout most of high school.) To pretend it doesn’t happen, or worse, to portray it as solely bad experience in one way or another is bothersome. I especially hate the Twilight series for this reason, because I know very well that if anyone treated ME like that, I would call the cops.
Same with the ‘Sarah’ hypothetical reader, although as soon as my mom felt comfortable with me reading adult material, I did, and so I have seen more regular romance scenes (or at least less awful ones.).
As for my novel specifically, the way I have it planned is pretty much in that manner. They are in a relationship, they are (albeit slowly) coming to terms with the fact that they love each other, and it is the right time/place.
And ‘massive’ and ‘throbbing’ seem silly to me, no matter the age level. Haha. I wince every time I read a scene that uses purple prose. One too many steel rods covered in silk for me…
xD
Maemi- Ooh, but I remember loving those books! I read All American Girl so many times it started to fall apart.
Satori – Sounds about right. (Although beaches…sand…O_o. Ow. And reminds me of the Sisterhood of the Traveling pants beach scene.) And yeah, I can understand why it would be less focuses on anatomy… I don’t think I would do that. It would be a bit much.
As for Nick and Norah, I don’t remember that one! I believe it happened, I just know I skimmed it very quickly, and I read the whole thing in the bookstore while I was waiting for someone to come and pick me up at the time.
Guess I need to at *least* read Forever.
----------27,361 / 50,000
Oct 10, 2009 - 22 45
First of all, I am to pass on the message from a friend that Sharyn November, a very well-known YA publisher, has basically said one of the main differences (if not THE difference) between YA and adult is explicit sex. I think explicit sex is anything that involves step-by-stepping it; like others have said, you can include thoughts and impressions, but shy away from describing the actual act itself.
Secondly, I think part of the reason that there are so few "good" sexual relationships between teenagers in books is because there are few between teenagers in real life. Sure, they might be good for a while, but most teenage relationships end, and when you've invested enough into one to sleep with someone, it can add to the whole "crash-and-burn" aspect of YA sex.
It's just...teenagers having sex is, I think, a big muddled thing, even for the teenagers. Especially for the teenagers. And so it's not something where you can be like "and they have a healthy sex life!" because they're roiling and exploding with hormones and emotions and everything and they're not settled enough. I mean, there ARE more mature teenagers who CAN handle it, but if you're writing about average teenagers...it can go either way, and usually it goes south.
I disagree with the idea that reading bad sex scenes could make a girl (or a boy) rush into having sex...if that's not what you meant, Graffigraphy, I apologize. I think the general crappiness that surrounds bad sex in YA books would alert the reader to the fact that rushing into this kind of thing is probably a bad thing.
I feel like I'm not expressing my thoughts well, but maybe I can boil it down to a) yes teens do have sex, and it should be portrayed honestly, which means sometimes it does not have negative consequences but b) as teenagers are roiling masses of hormones who do impulsive rash things and get lust and in-love and love mixed up, most of the time it does, and we shouldn't ignore that. Also c) watch the explicitness.
----------NaNo 2006 winner
NaNo 2007 failure, due to the flu
NaNo 2008 winner, due to lack of internet
50,028 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 03 29
I think that if you want to make your older young adult novel realistic you cannot ignore sex. Like it or not sex is on teenagers minds. You don't have to have them have sex and you don't have to make all your character's chaste virgins either. You just need to understand that teenagers do want sex and portray that realistically and tastefully.
40,077 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 06 59
Crank
----------Glass
Identical
Tricks - all by Ellen Hopkins
6,906 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 12 50
I think it's good for teenagers to read healthy portrayals of sex. I mean, I agree that it should probably be a fade-to-black sort of situation, not a blow-by-blow account--but by "healthy" I mean that they should see two characters who like each other, are in charge of their lives and decisions, and have sex without the house falling down around their heads or their boyfriends turning evil, like in Buffy--although that did make some great television.
Tamora Pierce's heroines have sex and a healthy attitude towards it.
5,510 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 13 49
*facepalm* I completely forgot Tamora Pierce! OP, for the books that deal with sex the most explicitly, I'd check out Squire from the Protector of the Small quartet. I can't remember how explicit the sex scenes are, or if they're just fade to black, or if they even happen (I haven't read the book in a long time), but sex is definitely talked about a lot. The main character goes about getting contraceptives, etc. The subject is treated really well in that book.
----------26,000 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 20 01
Jade Sabre: I think more what Graff. and I mean is that the more bad sex portrayed in novels there is for YA the less good sex there is for teens to understand what's right/okay/normal/good. And with iffy things like: Twilight, you've got a lot of girls thinking broken headboards and copious amounts of bruises are sexy and normal (never mind that Edward is controlling enough to steal Bella's car battery out of her car to prevent her from seeing friends.) While some teens can see that's Not Okay, many girls think that's perfectly acceptable, and frankly I must wonder if it's because there aren't better portrayals out there.
I must again wonder why everyone insists on watching the explicitness. I understand the difference between an erotica novel and a romance novel, but I don't see why a YA book shouldn't have the opportunity to portray sex, as, well, *sexy*. Perhaps I have an inherit bias... I am an older teen myself and know very well that girls my age do read sex scenes and adult romance novels. I also know that most girls my age roll their eyes at 'cutesy' brush overs. If there really is such a taboo about writing about 'real' teens, and especially knowing what they actually do (thanks to my friends I have a very broad knowledge of the exploits teens get into... ;) ) then I think perhaps there is something inherently wrong with the YA section of the bookstore. It would seem to me that it is geared less towards Young ADULTS and completely towards preteens/tweens.
Perhaps this is my frustration with a section I had thought was geared towards my age group...
LadyStripey: As far as I know, both Crank and Glass are about drugs, which doesn't match my criteria of "Normal sex portrayed as something not evil/in combination of drugs, suicide, pregnancy, abuse, etc.]
___
I think it's less that I think there should be copious amounts of sex and description, and more than I'm intensely fascinated as to why everyone insists there shouldn't be any explicitness or description. Is it more the feelings of Parents and Publishers? I don't honestly believe the 15+ age group would turn their nose up at a book just because it had a sex scene in it. Rather, if it made them feel uncomfortable, I think they would just skip over the scene.
I will have to see Tamora Pierce. I believe I've read other books by her...
I did take a look at Forever, although I can't say I was impressed with the story in general. But then I looked at it for only about 20 minutes.
----------80,099 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 20 05
In answer to your question about parents: I think that's just it. I'm 19 myself, and since the age of probably 15 or 16 I was reading Japanese yaoi manga with sex scenes. I think a lot of kids don't find sex an inappropriate subject for them to read about, but they aren't usually the ones you see petitioning a school, or library, or bookstore to get rid of an 'inappropriate' book, are they?
----------Click the banner to read my novel blog.
29,734 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 20 07
Glass
Identical
Tricks - all by Ellen Hopkins
Actually, Burned by Ellen Hopkins had a scene where the characters had sex. And it was, like all of you said, their thoughts during it. And it was one of those 'healthy' ones where the characters cared about each other
(As evident by the quote, most of Ellen Hopkins' books have sex in them. Not graphic (except maybe Tricks and possibly Identical) but they do portray it.) ----------
96,684 / 50,000
Oct 11, 2009 - 21 32
There is sex in identical but it's by no means healthy. Usually it's incest between Kaeleigh and her father. Raeanne also has sex but that usually had to do with drugs
41,618 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 06 15
I, too, have seen some very poor sexual scenes in YA books of late (a lot of them you mentioned). In the House of Night series (by the Cast mother and daughter) there is an act of oral sex from almost the beginning of the book. In a later book in this series the MC has sex with one of the instructors and later witnesses a sexual act between said instructor and another instructor all the while she is being pursued by, pawed at, making out with two to three other guys (at various times). I haven't decided if this series is about vampires or bad decisions in regards to relationships and sex. :P
While Judy Blume's Forever is not the best literature it has usually been the standard for what is and isn't acceptable in YA sex (although the Gossip Girls series crossed that line several years ago). Basically the catch phrase in YA literature has been "If Judy said it in Forever then it's ok."
My biggest gripe with sex in YA books is the lack of safe sex. Does no one use a condom anymore? Is it too frightening to mention because if we mention condom then we are advocating teen sex and going against all the "abstinence only" school sex ed programs? But, hello! We have two young adults/teens who are having sex anyway and they do so without any consequences (or rarely any consequences). When I write a chapter that deals with sex, I make sure that there is protection involved and I make sure that it doesn't cross the line from "teen/YA romance" into "teen/YA erotica." Readers really don't 'need to read all the "ins and outs" of two young people experiencing sex.
----------Lorna
Nanowrimo08: Magical Words
Nonowrimo09: Justified
0 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 08 54
Try the Jessica Darling series. The last one was Perfect Fifths, but the first one (I want to say it's called Sloppy Firsts? something like that) had realistic sex scenes that were very respectful of the characters, they thought it out and planned for it. Also, it took teen stereotypes and stood them on their heads. Definitely worth a read if you want a good example of teenaged sex written well.
26,000 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2009 - 09 12
Actually, as far as I can remember, Gossip Girl was fairly chaste in actual descriptions. I did read several of the books, and I feel like after time, they blurred together but I remember a lot of: "Oh the neighbors heard them up on the roof..." and talking while naked, and reminising and waking up/a couple wandering away but I can't recall any outright sex scene. (Although if there was one, I'd bet it was between dan/vanessa and I'm just forgetting, because I remember they had quite a lot of sex, especially when Vanessa lived with Blair/Vanessa was sleeping with Aaron.)
Frankly, and this is just me (And my humor may or may not cross over into the internet well...) But Judy Blume's first sex scene was (as far as I can tell) intentionally worse than it could have been. I've been using this thread as a discussion between friends, and we whole-heartily agree that even if your first time is *terrible* the lead up part should be somewhat fun. In Blume's case the lead up was "How bout on the rug?" Further, the second scene she portrayed may as well have been a scene about someone riding on a merry-go-round for as sexy as it was. "We went up, down, up, down, up, down, and then I came."
That's not even describing any real emotions, it just sounds mechanical.
I would continue to argue that Yes, YAs DO need to know the ins and outs of sex. At the age of 15+ you've either experienced something, thought about experiencing it, or are planning to or know someone who has. Why not have role-models for a regular human function in your stories? And frankly, if you don't know that something is going wrong, then won't you keep doing it that way? [Case in point, my Abstinence Ed class in Jr. High was filled with girls who were SHOCKED you could get an STD from giving a blow job, and had no idea 'pulling out' doesn't always work. These girls were 14-15]
If writing out an actual scene in YA is considered Erotica, then I would be better off in a regular adult genre. [Or starting riots writing a real YA novel but you know...]
As for the safe sex thing, I understand the pet peeve, but as I am working with a fantasy world, I think the closest thing I'd get to protection would be a magical brew of sorts. (I'd rather not go into the long history of condom making... haha)
I think me and Maemi are on the same page, although I haven't read that much Yaoi. xD
Hmmm...I think I did read the sloppy firsts book. It got re-classified however, and is now shelved in the adult section.
----------35,000 / 50,000
Oct 28, 2009 - 10 59
The problem is mainly who writes your average YA fiction. For the most part they are: married English majors. Now, there goes on to be a distinction. Those married English majors with no children but plenty of pets are generally the ones who are not afraid to write sex scenes that are not cutesy. Those married English majors with children (pets optional) are generally the ones who write cutesy sex or no sex at all or Sex Is Evil. Methinks this is because those with no children feel free to express teenagers as they actually are: young adults with adult feelings, while those with children don't want to possibly send the message to their children that "sex is okay" to have as a teenager.
49,282 / 50,000
Oct 28, 2009 - 12 14
Two books from my...ahem...teenage years have what I think you are looking for. If I remember things correctly. I have no clue who wrote them. Yet they would still be relevent today, I think.
Mr. and Mrs. BoJo Jones. They are young, in love, have sex, get prego and get married. Things are tough. They strive through it. A great book from my recall, though I'm not sure if it would be categorized as YA. We didn't have them back in the day. Things pretty much went from first periods with Are You There God, It's Me Margaret? to Adult fiction. Yeah, I'm that old.
Another book was Virgins. This funny, fun-loving book is simply about growing up. Albeit in a Catholic school with mischeivious relationships. Girl and boy struggle through together as great friends and end up sleeping together because of their love for each other. They then have to figure out what that means in the long run.
If memory serves, there was not hiding the fact that intercourse happened. It wasn't unhealthy and it wasn't wink and nudge. It just was a natural progression of the relationships.
As a side note, the reason we don't go "too far" with the healthy sexual relationships is because we don't want teens to be having sex. We don't want to glorify it, so it entices them into further action. That, I think, is the theory behind it. However, we could get into a whole philosophical discussion about morals and media and still never have an answer that is satisfying or appropriate.
My daughter (13) loves romance. Some, I think, is farther above her head than I want. My response: it is my job as a mom to then read alongside her and discuss things. Would I prefer she didn't read about vampire sex with broken headboards or boys sleeping in girl's beds before marriage? Hell yes. Does she? Sure, she devoured Twilight like most girls her age. We talk. We listen. We learn. Life is complicated with no black or white answers. Lots of gray, though.
Hope this helps a little?
----------warm fuzzies~ Lex
2005 Winner Untitled
2007 Winner "Surviving Serengeti"
2008 Winner "Burnt Offerings"
2009 "Whispering Minds"
http://www.catwoods.blogs.org/
27,338 / 50,000
Oct 28, 2009 - 14 32
Nick And Norah's Infinite Playlist has a lot of sex in it actually, it just isn't blatantly obvious. And yeah, they almost get it on in the ice room at a Marriott. The movie is more obvious about the sex that goes on (favorite movie, have it practically memorized). But yeah, there's sex. David Levithan is one of my favorite authors.
There's a gay sex scene in his book Wide Awake. Between two teenagers. It's not so graphic that it's disgusting (because I mean, there's not really an easy way to get away with a gay sex scene in ANY book), but it's a really good scene, if that doesn't make me sound weird xDDDDD
xo.
----------The dance floor is shredded to pieces. The way you rip it up has got my heart rate increasin'.
44,103 / 50,000
Oct 28, 2009 - 15 01
I know there are some, but you're right, there aren't enough. One book I read recently, I Know It's Over portrayed the main relationship really well. It was all through the boy's eyes, and it showed how they got together, and how they got comfortable with each other's bodies, and then they finally had sex because they both wanted to. And it was crappy sex because they were both virgins, but they loved each other and could talk about it and when they did it again, things improved. And then she ends up pregnant and has an abortion and DOESN'T end up a quivering, traumatised wreck because of her decision! (I really liked this book).
I think that there should be more like that. It doesn't need to be written like an erotica novel, but actual descriptions of sex. How are teenagers supposed to know what's normal, if no one's prepared to tell them? And by normal I mean: good sex, bad sex, good reasons to have sex, bad reasons to, use of birth control, consideration of STDs (pregnancy isn't the only result of unprotected sex!). Even stupid stuff like being sore the day after, or not being sure how to put on a condom, because in reality, that's what happens! And most teens don't want to talk about this stuff. They're not going to ask their parents. They might have an older friend to ask, but more likely not. How else are they going to know what's going on, if not by reading the experience of others?
YA is about young adults, for young adults. IMO, there's no good reason to leave out something that is *so* important to most young adults.
----------Ideas are bulletproof - Alan Moore