I personally think many thing that I try to say sound best in passive voice, and using passive voice also helps boost my word count. Why does it matter if I use passive voice? I don't see anything grammatically wrong with it. Help?!?!?!
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| blue_da_da_dee | What's so bad about passive voice? |
    19,792 / 50,000 Official Participant
Joined: Oct 27, 2009
Location: Poo-keepsie Posts: 130
Posted on:
Nov 1, 2009 - 05 49 |
I personally think many thing that I try to say sound best in passive voice, and using passive voice also helps boost my word count. Why does it matter if I use passive voice? I don't see anything grammatically wrong with it. Help?!?!?! |
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1,339 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 06 11
It is not grammatically wrong.
The passive voice is, as the name implies, passive. It puts your characters in the place of not doing, but being done to. In rare occasions that is entirely appropriate but mostly readers like the characters to DO and not just be knocked around by whatever comes along.
But certainly NOW is not the time to worry about passive voice. Just get the words on paper, then if/when you decide to edit (please wait till January and not start Dec. 1 - give yourself a break from this piece!) you can look at whether you like "Johnny was hit by the bat" or "Swinging from nowhere, the bat cracked Johnny over the head." <-actually more words
If you practice between December and next Nano, you will be in a better habit of not writing in the passive voice.
----------"To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
2009-Brother Monkey, Brother Lion, Sister Crow2009 -Bunnystar Galactica Psychic Bunnies IN SPACE
19,792 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 06 10
Thanks. In most cases in which I have used it, it makes sense for the emphasis to be put on the "being done to."
----------46,898 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 06 51
Yes, despite all the hate on passive voice being "always wrong!" or some such, there are many cases where it's actually correct and coming across better to use it. You don't need to say "The jury found the defendant guilty", for instance, "The defendant was found guilty" works just as well. It's just a matter of how you choose to word it and what to emphasize, and in some cases, passive voice is correct to use because of what you're trying to emphasize in the sentence.
Looking back at the last few lines I've written, I see I've used passive voice myself... "We were three years old when we were taken to a different place. We went on a spaceship, and I didn't understand that we were going to another planet. We all filed into the shuttle, like miniature soldiers in uniform all in a row, and up we went." (A bit Ender's-Game-ish perhaps, I know, but I don't care :P) I don't see how, or why, I would reword this -- at the age of three, especially with a lack of real parental contact, these adults seem huge and mysterious, more a force of nature than actual people. And I'd think it would sound terrible if I said something clunky like "We were three years old when the scientists took us to a different place." It just... doesn't sound right with the voice I'm trying to convey at all.
19,792 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 07 35
Looking back at the last few lines I've written, I see I've used passive voice myself... "We were three years old when we were taken to a different place. We went on a spaceship, and I didn't understand that we were going to another planet. We all filed into the shuttle, like miniature soldiers in uniform all in a row, and up we went." (A bit Ender's-Game-ish perhaps, I know, but I don't care :P) I don't see how, or why, I would reword this -- at the age of three, especially with a lack of real parental contact, these adults seem huge and mysterious, more a force of nature than actual people. And I'd think it would sound terrible if I said something clunky like "We were three years old when the scientists took us to a different place." It just... doesn't sound right with the voice I'm trying to convey at all.
Thanks. I was kind of worried that I was doing everything wrong lol. But I agree, sometimes it just sounds more normal than anything else. On other sites, the examples that they use against passive voice are usually things such as writing speeches. Novel=/=speech. But I'm glad that people aren't all AMG PASSIVE VOICE IS A NO-NO. Honestly, it's much easier to say "...yet another page on my calendar was ripped off..." than anything else.
On another note, does anyone know how to stop Word from correcting me on passive voice? I have the Mac version from 2008, version 12.0.0, if that helps.
----------1,339 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 07 44
It is all about context. Your character /thinking/ in passive voice is very different than presenting the action of the story in passive voice.
----------"To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
2009-Brother Monkey, Brother Lion, Sister Crow2009 -Bunnystar Galactica Psychic Bunnies IN SPACE
4,201 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 13 16
The main reason, as far as I know that people dislike passive voice is
1. It's annoying to write.
and
2. It CAN be annoying to read, if not written well.
It's perfectly correct, grammatically, it's just HARD.
----------20,154 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 17 19
Forget about your word count, forget about standard grammar. The question here is: What's the clearest way to express a thought?
Fact is, we read passive and active constructions differently. 'Active voice' gets right to the action, attributes it definitively. 'The frog plucked the banjo.' Done. 'Passive voice' takes a roundabout route, shifts emphases from the subject (actor) to the object (acted-upon): 'The banjo was plucked by the frog.'
More importantly, 'active' verbs are generally a hell of a lot more vivid than conjugations of 'to be.' Active verbs are important. Dig: 'We were in the hills for a day' vs 'We spent a day in the hills.' Subtle difference, but the latter strikes the image and moves on. The first sentence lands more 'softly,' y'know?
Sometimes you want this mix of voices and registers. 'Night gave way to morning, and another day had finished.' That sort of thing. If you're Joseph Conrad doing Lord Jim, you throw in the passive voice as a way of rendering Jim's avoidance of responsibility. Specific effect in a mind, specific technique, that's fine.
'I was hit by Steve.' 'Steve hit me.' Which sentence hits harder?
'We traipsed across the beach, laughing at death and one another.' 'We were traipsing across the beach...' The latter sets up anticipation for something else. Do you play music? You're playing a song in C major, passive voice is like the G7 chord. It sounds...incomplete. Suggestive, provisional. Active construction brings your point home. On the other hand, your point is not brought home by passive construction (and maybe that's the effect you want).
Make sense?
35,016 / 50,000
Nov 2, 2009 - 14 28
To stop Word from correcting you, go to Tools > Options > Grammar & Spelling and uncheck "Check grammar as you type." I also have "Check grammar with spellcheck" unchecked because I find the grammar checker not very helpful. (This is on a Windows platform, but yours should be similar enough to get the idea.)
----------What comes after NaNo? National Novel Publishing Year! http://www.nanopubye.org
3,917 / 50,000
Nov 2, 2009 - 18 11
In my opinion, nothing. There are times when passive voice is appropriate.
Just remember, all things in moderation.
7,437 / 50,000
Nov 2, 2009 - 20 24
Passive voice makes the sentence harder to comprehend. Active voice usually sounds better, as the verbs are stronger, more vivid. However, you're right, using passive voice will increase your total word count, but this is mainly the influx of prepositions...not the most interesting things...If you're concerned more about word count then readability, then it's fine to use passive voice.
----------I was the shadow of the waxwing slain
0 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 04 01
A-ha, passive voice.... I wondered what I was doing that was making everything sound so flat and slow paced!!
It's been years since I was at school and I haven't written anything but academic essays for years now so all these terms and conventions feel like new to me!
55,939 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 05 08
Neither of these is in passive voice.
Neither of these is in passive voice.
----------"Let me guess. He always cries at weddings, right?"
"Och, nay, na at all. 'E always cries at good plot exposition."
- Order of the Stick
0 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 05 12
OK so now I'm a little confused... can anyone define 'passive voice' for me in simple terms?
35,016 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 07 58
Neither of these is in passive voice.
Neither of these is in passive voice.
To clarify: These examples are in what is known as the present progressive tense (I think?). It's stronger writing to cut out the verb "to be" and just use your main verb, as in the examples above. But that's an entirely different grammatical problem than passive voice.
----------What comes after NaNo? National Novel Publishing Year! http://www.nanopubye.org
35,016 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 08 02
In passive voice, the subject of the sentence is being acted on rather than acting.
Active: Bob gave John the phone.
Passive: The phone was given to John by Bob. OR The phone was given to John. (Notice how you don't have to say who was doing the giving. This can be good if you're writing for a corporation - "Mistakes were made" - but bad if you're writing fiction.)
Does that help at all? :-/
----------What comes after NaNo? National Novel Publishing Year! http://www.nanopubye.org
19,792 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 08 13
I'm trying to boot the passive voice habit. Sometimes, I think, I need to use it. Example: "I was led not to a lower floor or basement, but to a boiler room."
----------18,177 / 50,000
Nov 3, 2009 - 13 19
There's nothing wrong with that. I would use that if the person leading the POV character is not someone of significance. For example, if it was just some errand boy sent to guide him somewhere, there's no need to say: "The boy led me..."
However, if a significant character was leading him, I'd be more inclined to mention it. "My brother led me..."
2,595 / 50,000
Nov 5, 2009 - 07 59
Active: Bob gave John the phone.
Passive: The phone was given to John by Bob. OR The phone was given to John. (Notice how you don't have to say who was doing the giving. This can be good if you're writing for a corporation - "Mistakes were made" - but bad if you're writing fiction.)
Does that help at all? :-/
The passive voice can be good in fiction when the one acted upon is more important than the actor. This can be the case if the actor is unknown or has been recently mentioned. That said, I would probably use it more in dialog than in my narrative descriptions of action.
Example:
Passive in dialog - "Prime Minister Veidt was shot today by an unknown assailant."
Active in narrative - Veidt clutched his arm as a shot rang out through the plaza.
EDIT: I just noticed I originally wrote "less important than" instead of "more important than." Boy was that a goof.
----------I used to think I was indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.
35,016 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 15 35
Good points above. I should have said "Passive voice is *usually* bad in fiction."
----------What comes after NaNo? National Novel Publishing Year! http://www.nanopubye.org
1,339 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 17 11
Actually, that would be the way to write it if your POV character was a prisoner at this point and you wanted the reader to feel that the MC was " powerless". Most other situations a different phrasing would be "more pleasing to most readers".
* John led the way as we entered not a basement but a boiler room.
* I followed the mysterious form as we entered not a basement but a boiler room.
----------"To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
2009-Brother Monkey, Brother Lion, Sister Crow2009 -Bunnystar Galactica Psychic Bunnies IN SPACE
40,569 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 20 03
There's nothing GRAMMATICALLY wrong with passive voice. And it's great if you're writing an academic paper. Personally, I hope I die before I ever read a 50,000 word academic paper. :)
The real problem is that passive voice hides your characters. It hides them from the reader, and worse, it hides them from YOU. There's an awesome article about that here:
http://bit.ly/3iOFTj
----------Lapochka (YA emotional journey / travel adventure):
A young woman searches for her missing father through clues hidden in Soviet-era Russian comic books.
Also check out my writing blog at: http://www.plottopunctuation.com/blog/
46,898 / 50,000
Nov 5, 2009 - 13 49
Sometimes, however, that's the effect you _intend_. It's not bad to "hide" a character if that character is unimportant anyway, and you're trying to put emphasis on what was done rather than who was doing it.
25,099 / 50,000
Nov 6, 2009 - 00 15
Wow, good article - thanks for the link.
----------For newbies, this might open some eyes, as the Before and After examples show and
don't just tell what the difference in passive/active voice can look like.
Chance is only Fate using a pen name ~ ej runyon
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