Anyone come up against these yet? I've just run into an interesting one in my novel (and for anyone who read my into in the introductions post, you can scrap that because I ended up writing something entirely different XD). My main character has just woken up on a new body after having her personality and entire life copied and placed into a doll (this was a voluntary procedure). In the other room, her old body lies, under sedation and unconscious. She is given the choice to bid farewell to her old body before "natural life functioning is terminated." This made me realize that she is technically still alive in the other room. Her body is not just an empty shell but a living breathing human being who could theoretically go on with her life if the anesthetic was stopped. I've put myself in a very interesting ethical position, because I don't think I actually agree with this, but the concept is pivotal for the plot. It's just very strange to me; I don't think I've ever been in this position before.
Have any of you experienced anything like this in your writing before? Are you experiencing it in any of your novels right now? Is this question totally inappropriate for the "regional forums?"
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NaNo 2009 -- System Failur3
49,645 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 05 37
I don't know if the Regional Forum is an appropriate spot or not. I think, though, that as long as we keep the discussion ' G ' rated, or at most ' PG ', it would be okay. After all, this is supposed to be a family friendly forum - Even if we do talk about some difficult situations.
What you are describing sounds like some form of premeditated murder where the victim is the killer and survives, in a wierd way, to kill again. It's kind of like an assisted suicide where you go on living afterward. My personal conviction is that it is still murder, though it is a unique form of murder, and I am dead set against murder. No pun intended. Either your world will have a form of ' legalized ' murder with the undesirable consequences removed, or you will have to do some real writing to get out of this dilemna.
' Legalized ' murder with the undesirable consequences removed will create a society that, as societies always do, will degenerate into nothing more than a murder club where everyone ends up killing everyone off while rationalizing it to be a good thing. Yeah! ... RIght! ... If you believe that can be a good thing, I have a bridge you can buy in New York.
If, however, this were a medical thing where the living, breathing, funtional person that your character used to be were dying of a terminal condition that would take the life in minutes, an hour or so, or AT MOST a day, then you have a very different story. Still, it could degenerate into the murder for fun society mentioned above. That was the point behind the original Star Trek episode " What Little Girls Are Made Of ". There people who were near death were being copied into 'droids that would last forever. The problem was that the 'droids were gradually forcing everyone to get copied, and then going back and killing off the originals.
Murder is murder. If you keep with your story line and have the character decide that the old self should be disposed of. You are condoning Murder. It is a new form that can be rationalized into being ' Good ' by all sorts of nice sounding arguments, but it is still Murder.
BeaJay -- The Wordsmith Wannabe
----------BeaJay -- The WordSmith Wannabe
2006 - "The Vision of Second Samuel"
2007 - "Second Samuel's Vision Revealed"
2008 - "Perry Normel fun with Liu Syd Dreaming"
2009 - "Winning by Way of Losing"
15,283 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 08 40
In fiction it is not really a question of the author's ethical or moral dilemmas, is it? The question a fiction writer needs to ask is if it is an ethical or moral dilemma for the character. Only you know your character well enough to answer that question and if you don't know, then you need to explore that issue further. Once you know where your character stands on this issue, you will know what action she/he will likely take and that is what you write, unflinching, no matter what your personal beliefs are.
----------thehungrywriter.org
18,683 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 11 54
First, I have to say that I respectfully disagree with BeaJay's opinion. If a character in your book murders someone, no matter what the reason or circumstances, that doesn't mean that you, the author, are condoning it. Most of us who write have written characters who make choices we don't condone. Don't confuse the character with the author.
As for the situation described in your book, I see no problem with using it as a plot device. You'll just have to decide how your character feels about this choice, how the people around your character might react to it, and how the society described in your novel views it. From the details you've given, it would appear that the society does not see this as murder; if this is a routine procedure in your world and if "allowing life functioning to be terminated" is not a crime, then you won't have to deal with legal implications. There may or may not be moral implications that your character must deal with, but that would depend on your character, and possibly on how accepted this practice is in the fictional society.
I don't see an ethical dilemma for the writer. It's not important that you share the moral convictions of the characters or society that you're writing about. Just know your characters and their society well enough so that you understand the implications for them, as they see those implications. I've written about murderers -- of the clearcut, no-gray-area variety -- though I certainly don't condone murder. It never occurred to me that there was a problem with having my character choose to do something I would never choose.
Actually, I think your concept is fascinating! This could be a great book.
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Catherine Petrini
Children's and Young Adults' Book Author
blog: http://petrini1.livejournal.com/
e-mail: petrini1@aol.com
16,492 / 50,000
Nov 4, 2009 - 20 52
I completely agree with catpet. It's fiction! Not writing about things we morally disagree with would make for a boring selection of books. We wouldn't have anything with [all illegal and taboo things I won't write so this isn't deleted], all of which are parts of many a great work of literary fiction! Again, as catpet said, you only have to deal with how your character feels about this.
Granted, if you're writing about something that makes you uncomfortable enough that you don't want to do it, then stop. But I think pushing ourselves into uncomfortable areas often creates remarkable works. Good luck. I can't WAIT to read it!
BeaJay - (I know I'm setting myself up for a tirade here, so you can rip me apart but at least keep it short :)). You've told us you'll be alluding to a working girl in your book. In real life, do you condone the profession of working girls? How about where its illegal?
20,860 / 50,000
Nov 5, 2009 - 16 26
You guys have all brought up some very interesting points. There was never really a question of what my main character would choose, but it was definitely some uncomfortable territory that I was venturing into. It was mostly strange just because I get really into my writing, and while I don't normally feel guilty over the characters I kill off, this was probably the first death I actually felt a little guilty about. It's interesting, BeaJay, that you would bring up that Star Trek episode, because that's exactly how things started out -- it was a solution to the problem of terminal illness, but eventually got into the hands of those with money and influence. Now it's a totally acceptable thing. Thankfully, there is a twist that, as far as I'm aware, wasn't in the Star Trek episode? Maybe it was, I don't know -- I don't watch Star Trek, but I hope my idea ends up being original. XD
----------NaNo 2009 -- System Failur3
49,645 / 50,000
Nov 6, 2009 - 06 02
I am stting here thoroughly reprimanded for my take on things. All Y'All are right. What occurs in the novel has to be viewed from the perspective of those living in the world of the novel. Thank you for calling me to task on that one.
One point I will mention, however, is that based on how the author writes about the situation, even though the situation is being viewed from within the world of the novel, the author can by particular word choice, phrasing, plot development, &c put a slant on what is being presented. That means that if the author isn't careful, or even if the author is and is being manipulative, the author can come across as either condoning, condemning, or being strictly non-committal on what is going on.
Morality Tales, Allegory, and Fables of various flavors and types are good examples. There is, as well, the argument, regardless of how valid it may or may not be, that merely writing about certain situations and bringing attention to them can be either extremely positive or extremely negative in its impact on society in general.
That's all just my two-cents worth.
Now on to the question I was presented with. Yes, I have, in at least two novels now, mentioned in passing certain career paths taken by certain individuals. These paths may or may not be legal in some areas of the world. These career paths may or may not be considered morally acceptable in some areas of the world. Concerning these career paths, I have very strong convictions. Some of you might agree with me on them. Some of you might disagree with me on them.
We all have the right to choose what we will each individually believe, regardless of how valid or invalid those beliefs might be, and how rational or irrational our individual reasons for believing as we do might be. Since we all have this right, if I am to conduct myself in an appropriate manner, I must respect that right regardless of how I feel about the beliefs in question.
Certain career paths tend to be options regardless of locale and regardless of how those career paths are viewed within the locale. As has been so nicely pointed out in the above posts to this thread, my mentioning such career paths in my writing, especially when I happen to use such a career path as a plot element, does not, necessarily, mean that I am condoning such a career or that I am condemning such a career. It does mean, however, that I have to be extremely careful how I deal with things to keep from forcing my beliefs on others who may not believe as I do. I do have the liberty of expressing my beliefs in ways that are appropriate to the story I am telliing, but I do NOT have the right to FORCE my beliefs on others.
Yes, I have mentioned those who rent themselves out to others as instruments of pleasure and self gratification. That does NOT mean I believe the practice to be appropriate by any stretch of the imagination. It does NOT mean I condone such behavior in any way. I do NOT! ! !
It does show, However, that I am willing to admit that there are things I disagree with, and I am willing to write in the real world where such things are a part of the overall existence. While I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to certain aspects of life in the real world, I have refused to lock myself up in the proverbial Ivory Tower to sit in moral judgement over everybody else. I do admit that such things go on, and that I, though I do NOT approve of such, am no better and no worse than anyone else, even those who engage in such things.
Of course, that means I have to be extremely careful in how I write. Especially when I right about things I strongly disagree with. When you add to that the conviction I have that good writing should rarely if ever produce a work that is rated other than ' G ', or at worst ' PG ', that means I REALLY have to be EXTREMELY careful how I deal with certain topics. It is a challenge, but if I am to develop into the writer I one day hope to be, it is a challenge I will have to be able to meet. So I am steppiing up to the bar and seeing what I have to do to succeed at becoming the writer I want to be.
Wish me luck. ... I WILL NEED IT! ! !
BeaJay -- The Wordsmith Wannabe
P S
I hope that none of this comes across as sounding like I disagree with the points that have been brought out or that I have been offended in any way. I haven't. I am merely trying to give all y'all a better understanding of how I happen to see things.
I greatly appreciate what all y'all have said. It did show that I had let my understanding of novelling slip a little. I needed to hear what the rest of y'all said on the matter to keep my self straight.
Thank you for being willing to put up with me. Us old fogeys need lots of understanding and compassion.
BJ -- TWW
----------BeaJay -- The WordSmith Wannabe
2006 - "The Vision of Second Samuel"
2007 - "Second Samuel's Vision Revealed"
2008 - "Perry Normel fun with Liu Syd Dreaming"
2009 - "Winning by Way of Losing"
20,860 / 50,000
Nov 8, 2009 - 20 11
Morality Tales, Allegory, and Fables of various flavors and types are good examples. There is, as well, the argument, regardless of how valid it may or may not be, that merely writing about certain situations and bringing attention to them can be either extremely positive or extremely negative in its impact on society in general.
This is a very interesting point, and it's true that we need to be very careful about the way in which we deal with certain subject matter. I'm hoping that my novel turns out to be riddled with bits of social commentary, but who knows -- it may just come out sarcastic, but in a bad way. ^^;
We'll see. :)
----------NaNo 2009 -- System Failur3