I realize there can be several scenes in a chapter, but still
the arc of change can happen in both and can a long scene be called a chapter?
what most differentiates scene and chapter?
thank you
I'm writing very long scenes or chapters; I am not sure which....
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130,528 / 50,000
Nov 14, 2009 - 23 27
A chapter has a beginning, a middle, and an end. A scene does not.
The beginning = scene #1
The middle = scene #2
The end = scene #3
Chapters ALWAYS have a minimum of three scenes.
Chapters are made out of scenes.
Every time your character does something a new scene starts. For example:
scene #1 - your character wakes up
scene #2 - your character gets out of bed
scene #3 - your character brushes teeth
scene #4 - character walks to kitchen
scene #5 - character pours cereal in bowl
scene #6 - character eats cereal
scene #7 - character puts on shoes
scene #8 - character walks to school
and so on and so forth
These scenes, when strung together, make a chapter.
A chapter is several paragraphs and possibly many pages long.
A scene is rarely more than one or two paragraphs, or ten or twelve sentences at the most. Longer scenes are extraordinarily rare.
A novel well have hundreds, possibly thousands of scenes in it, but will only have 15 to 20 chapters.
I'm guessing that you are writing very long chapters.
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50,155 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 06 09
I think you're using a very different definition of "scenes" here than the original poster... and very different from what I'd use, as well. :P I would generally define a "scene" as a series of events defined by a single location and time period. That is, the stuff between the "scene breaks".
1,339 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 07 19
You would have to be writing VERY experimental fiction to be able to write a story without scenes.
Chapters, on the other hand are not at all necessary. You could remove all chapter breaks from nearly any story without any actual effect on the story.
Scenes are inherrent within the story itself, chapters are arbitrary associtations of /breaks between scenes.
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20,752 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 07 06
I agree with Keolah. EelKat's definition of a scene is not what the OP was looking for, I'm sure. What EelKat is describing are events, not scenes.
OP, think of a chapter as a general plot point in your story. For example, I have a chapter in my story where the MC must rescue her friends. The events leading up to and culminating in the rescue are all part of the same chapter.
Within that chapter, I have multiple scenes because I am using different POVs within the chapter, and each time the POV changes, I start a new scene.
You could also start a new scene simply to skip ahead in time, without changing POV, while still being within the same chapter. Or you could just add a paragraph to transition from one time to the other and stay in the same scene. It's totally up to you as the author.
It also depends on how you are handling POV. If you are doing limited third, then yes, you'll want to change scenes or chapters when you change POV. If you are doing omniscient POV, then you can transition the POV within the same scene or start a new scene/chapter. Again, it's up to you.
The way I like to do it is to create a brief summary of what is to occur within the chapter. Usually from that, I can get a sense of how many scenes I will want. The overriding goal of the chapter may be to rescue her friends, but I have to show her calling the dogs to help her. And I also wanted to show the people she is trying to rescue, before she comes to rescue them, so obviously that requires a different POV. And then when she arrives, I want to show the action from her POV (she is the MC after all). After she blacks out, I need to use a different POV to detail the escape. So right there I've got at least 4 scenes.
50,773 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 13 30
Banespawn covered chapters pretty thoroughly.
A scene is something that happens in a single location/time, usually from a single POV, and often with the same characters throughout. When the location changes or you skip forward in time, it's a new scene. Here's more info about what makes up a scene: http://hollylisle.com/fm/Workshops/scene-workshop.html
While length varies a lot from scene to scene, from chapter to chapter, and from writer to writer, I can tell you that my scenes are usually 800-2000 words long and my chapters are usually 3500-6000 words long (minimum of three scenes per chapter).
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19,600 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 21 06
Jim Butcher, author of the Dresden Files series of novels addresses scenes in his blog here:
http://jimbutcher.livejournal.com/2006/12/28/
The main point of what he says is this:
Scenes are important. Scenes are where all the plot in your book happens. Any time your character is actively pursuing his goal (as opposed to a character who is pausing to reflect or react emotionally to the events of the story) he is engaged in a SCENE.
The basic structure of a scene is simple. Your POINT OF VIEW character sets out in pursuit of a SPECIFIC GOAL. Someone else (usually, but not always, the antagonist) actively, knowingly tries to stop him. There is a CONFLICT. The reader is left to wonder whether or not the POV character will succeed (which can also be thought of as the SCENE QUESTION). The result of the conflict is *always* a SETBACK of one kind or another (also thought of as the SCENE ANSWER)--at least, until you get to the end of the book.
I found Butcher's blog to be the most helpful information I got in formatting my novel. The first entry can be found here:
----------http://jimbutcher.livejournal.com/2004/09/21/
59,773 / 50,000
Nov 15, 2009 - 23 13
Wow,
Thank you, I'm going to read all your posts, several times, and attempt to discern/differentiate/detonate (grin) = how to conjure evocative scenes that create sequences that conjure chapters that reveal a novel to die for, just a slight exaggeration.
Thank you!
laurel aisiing
----------http://www.symbolicbridging.com/

http://www.aislingnano.wordpress.com/