Writing a kiss...

I remember an interview once with a famous romance/historical fiction author. When asked why she didn't write sex scenes, she responded that her characters wanted their privacy. She would write about nothing her and her husband would do in public, and then would shut the bedroom doors so to speak, and leave them alone.

I love that philosophy, and I try to do it myself. My MC will do nothing with her boy that I won't do in public with my boy, and while I have stated that they have spent the night together, I stay out of the bedroom.

It helps that my book is written from a cat's perspective, and the cat is not allowed in the room when it's time for intimacy.

Michelle

I'm new too. so maybe this will roll eyes. I don't know. The scene set up is this. Larry is Trish's long lost lover Ethan. She thought he was dead and they meet accidently on a beach 30 years after they last saw one another.

They met several times at the beach, and in her heart she knew Larry was Ethan it wan't until this moment that she believes it in her head.

Larry puts his arms around and pulls me tight to his chest. His arms around my back and hugs me so hard I fear I will stop breathing. He begins to kiss me soft at first, but the kiss becomes urgent and more passionate until we are both in tears. By the time our kiss ends there are several spectators gathered near us. Larry whisper’s in my ear “Let’s go.” He takes my hand and leads to me to his truck.

Yeah, I just came across this problem too. I never thought I'd be bothered by it, but my inner good girl keeps yelling "You can't write those kinds of words!" which is silly, of course, but I've never been big on PDA and somehow that is exactly what this feels like. It makes me think of how Charlotte from 'Sex and the City' might behave trying to write a kissing scene, how she would get all uptight and pure. Apparently, I'm really a upper-crust wasp at heart. =-D

I don't bother with sex scenes unless it's absolutely necessary. And even then I try not to be so graphic that it is embarrassing. I usually find them boring to read and thus boring write.

When it comes to kissing, I describe the feeling it elicits rather than the technique itself. How does the character feel when the other character kisses him/her--that's more important to me than describing whether so-and-so stuck his tongue here or there.

I recommend picking up a Diana Gabaldon book- she writes love, sex and passion better than anyone I know. I've read a lot of romance so I know how boring, trite and hackneyed these scenes can get. Mrs. Gabaldon is the master- she knows the art of letting you into the bedroom without drawing a map (he touched her here, licked her there for example). Her first book is Outlander, you have to read quite a bit to get to the good stuff, you can PM me if you want help searching or the like.

I totally agree with you! I've read all her books and the magic between Clare and Jamie is wonderful!

There's a story in me scribbling around to get out....

wordcount widgets

I'm all for the 'less is more' philosophy when it comes to kissing and sex scenes. Not because it shocks me, or I find it offensive, but because who needs blow-by-blow (sorry ...) descriptions, when biology is nowhere near as provocative as subtlety and sensuality.

But the thing with my story is that the characters are in their 50s (I can just hear all you younger ones squealing eeeeeeeyew ...), and I reckon there'll be a certain amount of curiosity about how these two get it on. And, as a woman 'd'une certaine age' myself, I feel compelled to write about how the woman feels as she reveals her body for the first time, and how she feels seeing the man. We do have sex in our middle years, ya know!

Of course, they're both real people (duh!), and nothing like the Kens and Barbies I see around me here in California, where the pert blonde in the red Mustang is probably pushing 60 and her most recent ex is paying for everything. By which I mean that my characters are scarred and flawed and bound to be a bit paunchy in places and showing signs of lives well lived.

Getting back to the point of this thread - I think I'll find it weird when it comes to writing the sex. I would hate for people I know only a little, like former colleagues and bosses, to read it and look at me and think maybe I'm writing about my own experiences - know what I mean?

Ok, now I must insist ;) you need to read some Diana Gabaldon- the Outlander series was written with the intention of covering a 20-30 year marriage. She wanted not just to write the beginings, but the middle, the end, etc. In her last two books, Claire and Jaime are in their late forties and fifties, and still getting it on- but very well done, not at all crude or in your face. The writing is excellent.

I try not to worry too much about what people are going to think when they read my writing. I have always believed that art- true art, comes from an honest, healthy space in my head and heart. Sometimes it is hard to be honest, to write what you feel or know, or whatever, but I try to push through that, because I don't want to limit myself, my writing or my creativity.

Wow that came out kind of preachy. Sorry. I hope some of this helps. I do recommend, even if it doesn't help you now, that you read those books-

For my novel, my characters had a deep passionate kiss, but I didn't describe the kiss itself, just the emotions and the energy of the kiss.
As for the sex, my characters are going to have sex, but I'm not going to go too far into it. I want to keep my book classy and simple, and try and convery their emotional passion rather than just physical. Otherwise, it would just ruin the connection of the two characters.

Diana Gabaldon is a great example. Couldn't agree more. Especially knowing about Jamie and Claire's growth over the long span of time the two are together, she is capable of capturing the sexual and emotional level fom all aspects throughout the relationship.

I agree with the "less-is-more" approach. Leaving more to the imagination can be much more erotic and more of a turn-on than explicit descriptions. The emotional and generalized physical reaction is good -- her heart raced, his breathing quickened, she felt dizzy -- that kind of thing...but when it comes to throbbing members and quivering loins and inch-by-inch details of where whose tongue is when, I find I either get bored or start to snicker, which probably wasn't the author's intention ;-)

I was thinking about this as I ran out to lunch today, and had a great giggle thinking of all the words which I would say DO NOT used...for example "he laved her quivering bud of feminine power" or somesuch. Who really thinks that way? Her reaction to being...ahem...laved is probably more compelling etc. ect.

I think a kiss, especially in Chick-Lit, should be more about reactions (i.e. he cupped my cheeks in his hands and I felt a white hot dart of excitement as he leaned in, bla, bla, bla...) I think detailed sex scenes only work if something funny/awkward happens to mess them up, like someone interrupting, someone falling asleep halfway through, someone stopping halfway through to take a cell phone call from their mom, you know, really cringe-worthy yet hilarious things you'd tell your girlfriends about later over several margaritas. Otherwise, I like the less is more approach.

I agree with the person that suggested reading Diana Gabaldon's books. She's BRILLIANT at writing sex scenes. She also did about 8 podcasts where she talked about pretty much everything ...and one of them (I think it was 4, 5 or 6) she discussed how to write a good sex scene. I'd suggest searching itunes.com for the podcast. Or actually, it's up on her official website as well.

Another really good book I found at the library one day that is specifically for sex scenes is "The Joy of Writing Sex." I can't think of the author's name, but she really breaks it down and explains how to write one that doesn't make you want to scream or laugh. Basically, we all know how it works, so we don't need you to tell us how it works. We want to know how it feels and reactions. It's a good read. I recommend it.

Right now, I just had two sex scenes in my piece...but the MCs are not happy with me because both times they were interrupted. So nothing actually happened. In fact, my MMC just said "they're going to turn blue if it keeps going like this." Because being mean and frustrating my MCs is FUN! :)

Good luck!

Thanks for your input everyone! Some great answers.

I do agree with the less is more philosophy too. I wrote one kiss scene, it was a flashback of my MC's first kiss. It was totally G-rated and I intended it to be so. However, her next kiss is with a man she is lusting after. I don't intend to get into a play-by-play of their more intimate moments. I just want to write their first kiss without being melodramatic. I worry more about that than about getting too graphic. I think I may have to draw on my own experiences for this one. I re-read my diary from when I was much younger, where I explained in detail, my first kiss with a guy I was madly in love with; it made me want to jump off a bridge (after I burned my journal). ("The whole world stopped. I heard nothing but the sound of his rapid breaths, felt his hands running over my back...etc. YUCK!)

I suspect I'll have to write something down, and worry later about re-working it.

I felt like such an idiot writing my first sex scene.

All i have for my references are cliched Meg Cabot books... Well, there was that one scene from The Guy Next Door that helped me out a little...

This is interesting. I didn't intend for my novel to necessarily be "chick lit" but I think that is where it is going. I planned to write a sex scene, also between a couple in their 50's who have been married for a very long time, my purpose being to show how beautiful mature love, and by that I don't mean because the couple is in their 50's but because they have been together for 30 years, can be. My problem with the sex scene is my boys. We were talking around the dinner table the other night, and they were asking me about my story. I shared the basic plot line. They were so curious, and they had ideas about character names and all sorts of things. It felt really good. Later while I was doing dishes, my eleven year old came back into the kitchen to tell me that he had read my story. Smiling and looking somewhat surprised, he said, "It's good mom." I was thrilled. I had not written the sex scene yet, and now I don't know if I should.

You know? I truly don't believe there IS a way to write a kiss that isn't cheesy. So what you really need to do is have an amazing build-up. You need to get the emotion and connection between the characters so strong that all you need to do is say "they kissed" and the reader will start bawling. There really isn't a good way to just dive into one, and if you do, be CAREFUL. If you go for the sex-scenes without enough build-up, you'll end up in the one dollar rack of the trashy literature section. Word-porn. Just don't go down that road. It's better to risk sounding too chaste than end up there. There is redemption from the Christian romance novel, just not the trash. Good luck!

(And if you want to go for tons of sex just for the heck of it... for goodness' sakes! Use a pen-name if you ever get published!)

Much love,

Mary-Celeste

The important thing whether you write the sex scene or write around the sex scene....

is to show how the characters change as a result.

A sex scene is gratuitous unless it changes the characters in some way....

We get to the top of the road, and we’re heading in opposite directions. I hesitate, and we say goodbye… you’re facing me, and you move closer. “Thanks for the drink” you say, almost in a whisper, the words mean nothing compared to what your eyes are telling me. I don’t say anything; I just look into your eyes and lose myself in them. Before I know it, with no effort what so ever we move closer, my eyes are closed and I feel your lips cold from the night air meet mine for the first time.

The look in an eye, or describing the atmosphere, location etc can describe a kiss better than any talk of nibbling lips or gentle caresses .... which are just ugh! ;o)

my advice is to write what you feel, SO if it is difficult to not sound cheesey, then let the character think cheesey things and then catch herself and then get befuddled and then, then -- you know... she can't describe it because it tastes like an orange but that doesn't make sense, or maybe it's just because she had an orange for lunch but she shouldn't be thinking these very unromantic things because it is an important kiss and she should be swept away but somehow she's not, or maybe she has the distinct impression that he might have just had a martini and "if he is just kissing me because he is drunk then --"

and suddenly all thought rushed from her mind as he pulled her her even closer. [bla bla bla]

i dont' know.

i guess i'm just saying that whenever i hit a block i'll go with what i'm really thinking, and then somehow i end up rolling around (sideways) to where i want to be, because that's kind of how life works... the route is rarely what we expect it to be.

like the pink elephant (don't think of one!) - try NOT to write the kiss. write AROUND it, and then maybe it will end up writing itself, like a map that's hard to fold if you try too hard.

don't write it - unwrite it.

... just some random thoughts for you...

oh! well, i just noticed yor chekhov quote - perfect!

"Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass."

so...

don't tell me they're kissing. tell me who oversees them, what is going on in the room, sounds in the distance, all the things she blocks out, or that had been loud and now are silenced... etc...

or...

as a painter would say, don't draw the lines, fill in the empty space.... and the face emerges

good luck!

-jill

i just wrote my first ever kiss scene last night, and i think it came out fairly decent/original considering that i (ahem) have no actual experience in that area (for religious reasons) except what i have read (which is plenty, but still). i feel like a bit of a poser because of that, but im also proud that i didn't shy away from it.

thanks to everyone above for the advice- making it more about the feelings and the events leading up to it and the ensuing changes for the characters than the mechanics of the kiss itself. it was easier for me to describe that kind of thing.

sex is definitely a no-no in my book! i wouldnt know where to start, and i would feel like a heck of a lot more of a poser (among other things)! im trailing off at significant monets and letting the reader make her own assumptions. i think one of the better things about chick lit over romance is that the sex scenes aren't what carry the plot, its more about the characters and their actual RELATIONSHIP

I tend to avoid sex scenes, but I'm pretty good with the kissing scences.

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About Sex Scenes:

Most romance books written before the 1980's didn't have sex in them at all, it wasn't common to put sex in a romance story until just that last 20 years or so and the romance genre has been around over 100 years now.

My story this year, as romance in it, which is why I'm posting on the romance forum, but I listed it as fantasy, because the romance is not the main-plot of the story, but rather a sub-plot within my story. I on't plan to have any sex in my novel either.

Over the years I have written about a dozen romance stories. One was erotica and had sex in it, but all of the others, never even mentioned sex. The closet I ever came to writing sex into my stories was saying something like: "...and she spent the night at his house.". I never said which room she slept in. She could have slept on the couch or they could have had sex. I never said they did, but I never said they didn't either. I left it up to the reader to decide if they had had sex or not. I feel it's better to leave things like sex to the readers imagination.

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As To Kisses:

I don't like bogging my readers down with long narratives. It's a case where I write what I know and let my readers fill in the rest with their imagination. I add in tiny details like instead of saying:

They kissed.

I'd say:

They kissed under the willow tree.

or

He kissed her passionatly.

or

They kissed under the willow tree. It was her first kiss. It seemed to last forever.

I only added one or two little words. That's it. But it changed the whole picture in the readers head. Nothing big. Just little things.

Another thing that goes over well with readers is to get inside the character's head. Show don't tell.

They stoped under the willow tree. He pulled her close and kissed her long and hard. She felt the world disapear around her. Nothing else mattered. No one else existed. It was just the two of them alone in the universe. He had kissed her. Her first kiss. She hardly believe it. She wondered now if it had only been a dream.

It's short. It's quick. It's simple. It doesn't stop the flow of the story. It doesn't describe the kiss. It doesn't tell. It describes how she felt as she was being kissed. It shows.

Whatever you do, keep it short, keep it simple, keep it familiar, let the reader interpret the minor details themselves, and you'll write a book that's easy to read and seems familar to your readers and your readers well love you for it.

That said; being kissed can be the most amazing feeling in the world, if the guy it "the one" and not "just some guy". Soft lips, wet tounge, warm skin, the smell of perfumed skin, the tingle down your spine, the light headed feeling, the feeling that you could walk on air. French kissing is better in my opinion. If you haven't been kissed, than just imagin that you are experianceing the most amazing wonderful feeling possible and go with it, write how you imagin it would be like. Write what you know and bluff the rest. Chances are your readers well never know you've never been kissed... they'll be to busy imagining their first kiss- past or future.

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Copper Cockeral
Need To Publish Your NaNoNovel?
I Love Phookas!

I wrote my first fictional kiss today and I'm thrilled about how it came out.. yes, it's been written a million times in a million ways, but my character is unique and her reaction and thoughts during this whole thing make it hers.. and hers alone.. her first kiss with the man of her dreams..

I read the advice (above in this thread) to look at Diana Gabaldon's books, so I immediately got in my car and drove to B&N, where I bought Outlander.
Hmmm. It's pretty dreadful stuff, and I've read about halfway through, so I've looked at lots of her sex scenes (she puts a lot in), and they are a bit, um tame, I have to say. Sorry!
I cannot bear to finish the book. Yesterday I got to the passage where Jamie gives Claire a BEATING (!) for having disobeyed him. And Claire, the stupid, stupid woman, thinks about it for a bit, but decides she DESERVED IT! For fuck's sake, ladies! How can you put up with this crap?
I'm assuming we're all writing much better stuff that that!

I never read the Outlander, but I did read one of the later books in that series. I loved the book I read.

I read a lot of historical fiction, and sometimes find myself personally offended by something in a book. I have to remind myself that those things happened during that time period. Sometimes I disagree with the author for choosing to have their characters live through those specific experiences. I recently got upset when reading one of Philippa Gregory's books because she had a character engage in a gay relationship with his master when I felt this character never would have done such a thing. But those things happened during that time period and I am trying to forgive her this one offense because I've enjoyed so many of her other books.

Judith Blakley
Imnotaduck reminds me to be true to myself.
www.lovelaceway.blogspot.com

This is getting right away from the theme of this thread. Sorry.

And I also sincerely apologise for using the f-word in my last comment, as at least one of the contributors to this thread is deeply religious.

But really, I am so angry about this.
Gabaldon is writing a fantasy - she can, and does, play hard and fast with the truth/reality. Her heroine has travelled back in time 200 years, for heaven's sake! Realism?
So given that Gabaldon has a choice, in this fantasy, to write with as much or as little accuracy as she feels like, why on earth would she write a scene in which her heroine - and i quote - is 'beaten to within an inch of my life". And, what's more, how DARE she allow her heroine to put up with it? And say she deserved it?
This seems to me highly unethical. What sort of message is Gabaldon trying to send here?

Have you noticed that the good guys all have healthy, gleaming white teeth, and all the baddies have half-rotten ones (much more accurate!)? And that Claire hasn't had a period (at least up to the point at which i flung this book at the wall in disgust!), or tried to clean her teeth or have a bath - or at least a darned good wash (she's a 20th century girl, after all!).

This is getting right away from the theme of this thread. Sorry.

And I also sincerely apologise for using the f-word in my last comment, as at least one of the contributors to this thread is deeply religious.

But really, I am so angry about this.
Gabaldon is writing a fantasy - she can, and does, play hard and fast with the truth/reality. Her heroine has travelled back in time 200 years, for heaven's sake! Realism?
So given that Gabaldon has a choice, in this fantasy, to write with as much or as little accuracy as she feels like, why on earth would she write a scene in which her heroine - and i quote - is 'beaten to within an inch of my life". And, what's more, how DARE she allow her heroine to put up with it? And say she deserved it?
This seems to me highly unethical. What sort of message is Gabaldon trying to send here?

Have you noticed that the good guys all have healthy, gleaming white teeth, and all the baddies have half-rotten ones (much more accurate!)? And that Claire hasn't had a period (at least up to the point at which i flung this book at the wall in disgust!), or tried to clean her teeth or have a bath - or at least a darned good wash (she's a 20th century girl, after all!).

I don't mind authors taking poetic license with historical details like bad teeth -- it's like the movies -- my brain knows that people had bad teeth and were filthy (b/c they only bathed once a year whether they needed it or not ;-)) but the rest of me would rather not see the handsome stars making out with rotten teeth.:-)

But I do agree with you about the whole beating scene. Long ago I bought the Gabaldon books because I'd heard people rave about them, and because I loved the premise of a time travel romance. But I was truly disgusted that not only was the heroine brutalized by the "hero," she figured she "deserved" it -- and went on to have a big romance with the guy! Uggh.

I realize that a certain amount of S & M color many fantasies [look at how often rape is used in bodice-rippers] but this turned me off on so many levels, I never did finish the book, much less the series.

Obviously we have different opinions, which is fine. I can agree to disagree. I will add, however, that I was offering advice, based on my tastes, in an attempt to help someone out. I do not appreciate being insulted, or the language of the response. A simple, "I didn't like it and found it offensive." would probably have sufficed.