I'm crying right now. I need your help. I was looking through my story plot and my characters and I have no idea if it's totally cliched in the cliched way as possible. Yeah, of course some things are "overdone", but hey I tried to invent it in a way that doesn't seem cliched, but sadly it does. So please, name the worst piratet cliches ever to form into the pirating thing. I have no idea, but I don't if anybody would considered a girl dressing as a male on a ship because I'm doing historical fiction, and it was very common for girls to dress as males in the day. So, is this cliched or not?
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Dic 8, 2007 - 16 43
Aw, don't cry. I've read a couple different books which have girls cross-dressing as boys to get onto a pirate ship, but that doesn't mean it's cliche. And there's only so many ways you can tell one story. Besides, there's a lot of different ways to portray such a story, and the overall plot may be very different. Things such as a girl/woman trying to become the best pirate of the lot is a bit common, but if it's well written, very few people care if it is cliche. (But then if you're going with cliche, practically everything is a cliche in and of itself, regardless.)
You picked an awesome topic though, because I've been wanting to do one of the WORST cliches imaginable--just to poke fun at it: a pirate/ninja theme. Yes, you heard it right. A Pirate-Ninja theme in which a girl has parents: one is a pirate the other a ninja...but I'm not sure yet which parent should be which. It'd be amusing---and everyone keeps telling me that the mother should be the pirate. (Elsewise it sounds like a badly done Naruto...gah!)
Anyway, if it interests you keep writing it. Don't worry about cliches until much much later, and then you'll probably have learned a lot in just writing the story. Just look at all the various Pirate movies, and even Pirates of the Carribean movies b/c Elizabeth dresses up as a boy to become a pirate. (That one though I wasn't too pleased with, for some reason.) Be confident about what you're writing, because it sounds interesting to me.
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Dic 13, 2007 - 13 22
Frankly I'm getting really tired of the whole 'Oh pirates aren't so bad - they're kind of like Johnny Depp' attitude that has cropped up for obvious reasons. I that last Pirates movie - it got really ridiculous, with pirates as the 'sort of good guys' opposed by the evil corporate empire. Keira Knightly as the King of the Pirates? I'm not buying it.
I'd certainly need to research more, but I believe pirates were frequently not so nice.
50,582 / 50,000
Dic 13, 2007 - 18 49
I'd certainly need to research more, but I believe pirates were frequently not so nice.
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Goodness, I thought I was the only one who thought that! You're correct but hey...that's Disney for ya :) I thought they'll change since these movies are rated PG13...apparently not >_<
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----------"Ha! Not unless we can eat it, poop it out, and eat it again!"
"YEAH!"
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50,105 / 50,000
Dic 14, 2007 - 04 40
I'd certainly need to research more, but I believe pirates were frequently not so nice.
Ha, my December novel isn't inspired by Pirates of the Caribbean!
...
It was inspired by One Piece.
*Hides*
21,155 / 50,000
Dic 15, 2007 - 18 24
*King* of the pirates? Egads!
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Feb 7, 2008 - 19 34
I'd certainly need to research more, but I believe pirates were frequently not so nice.
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Goodness, I thought I was the only one who thought that! You're correct but hey...that's Disney for ya :) I thought they'll change since these movies are rated PG13...apparently not >_<
While I firmly say that the Pirates movies were just plain awesome (I saw number two in theater all of three times), I agree that the world needs to take a more realistic veiw on piracy.
First of all, it's still fairly common place. Even in these here modern times, pirates steal and loot a total of 19 billion dollars anually worldwide. Instead of using swoops and flinstlocks, however, they use helicoptors and machine guns.
Secondly, pirates, even in the 'good ol' times', were nothing but a bunch of murders, cutthroats and theives. No matter how you look at it, these were people who chose a life of crime and villiany rather than getting things for themselves.
All that being said, my main story line (If I can ever get the second draft done for the first book!) is going to invovle pirates, though the crew is made of justy as many elves and dwarves as humans. One of the main character is a mercenary who, one way another, becomes captain of ths ship and eventually ends up making a fleet and later founds a country.
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Feb 8, 2008 - 12 16
Pirates vs Ninjas! OYA! I've had that debate with so many people, so finally i came up with this:
Druidic Ninja Pirates.
50,582 / 50,000
Feb 9, 2008 - 09 13
I'd certainly need to research more, but I believe pirates were frequently not so nice.
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Goodness, I thought I was the only one who thought that! You're correct but hey...that's Disney for ya :) I thought they'll change since these movies are rated PG13...apparently not >_<
While I firmly say that the Pirates movies were just plain awesome (I saw number two in theater all of three times), I agree that the world needs to take a more realistic veiw on piracy.
First of all, it's still fairly common place. Even in these here modern times, pirates steal and loot a total of 19 billion dollars anually worldwide. Instead of using swoops and flinstlocks, however, they use helicoptors and machine guns.
Secondly, pirates, even in the 'good ol' times', were nothing but a bunch of murders, cutthroats and theives. No matter how you look at it, these were people who chose a life of crime and villiany rather than getting things for themselves.
All that being said, my main story line (If I can ever get the second draft done for the first book!) is going to invovle pirates, though the crew is made of justy as many elves and dwarves as humans. One of the main character is a mercenary who, one way another, becomes captain of ths ship and eventually ends up making a fleet and later founds a country.
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I'm extremely happy that you like Pirates but agree that we need more serious views :)
Good thing my pirates are anything but "nice".
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----------"Ha! Not unless we can eat it, poop it out, and eat it again!"
"YEAH!"
___________________________________________________
Have I piratized you yet?
21,155 / 50,000
Feb 9, 2008 - 21 10
Forsooth.
Um...my WIP is in the Caribbean...and it has pirates...but it's completely different!
50,329 / 50,000
Feb 10, 2008 - 10 02
21st century pirates in the Indies is my Nano, and another old piece involves pirates in the golden age.
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Feb 10, 2008 - 12 56
In preparation for NaNo 2007 and my novel "Pyrate Hunter" I spent months doing research and reading a lot of books.
On my shelf right now I have the following:
"The Republic of Pirates" by Colin Woodard. I haven't finished reading it but it's got a lot of historical background on the "Golden Age" of piracy. It covers Blackbeard, Stede Bonnet, Anne Bonny and Mary Reade (two real life female pirates), "Calico" Jack Rackam, and others. It also tells of how one man, Woodes Rogers, worked to bring down this confederacy and reopen the shipping lanes between the Caribbean, the American Colonies, and England.
"Under the Black Flag: The Romance and Reality of Live Among the Pirates" by David Cordingly. He has one chapter devoted to Women Pirates and Pirates women where he discusses people like Anne Bonny and Mary Reade, and other famous female pirate captains (one was Irish, and another was Chinese). He deals with historical records that indicate that pirates were not someone you wanted to run into. They would seize a ship, steal what they needed (often in the form of supplies and food, gold was a secondary resource) and then if you cooperated you just might live to tell the tale, but for any insult they would likely murder the entire crew and passengers and scuttle the ship (unless they could use it to further their own ambitions of piracy, then they would set you adrift in their leaky broken down boat and steal yours).
and finally
"Two Years Before the Mast: A Personal Narrative of Life at Sea" by Richard Henry Dana Jr. This takes place much later than the age of Pirates, but it's filled with interesting detail of the day to day life of a sailor in the 1800's. This is non-fiction as it tells the story of a man who quit college and took a job on board a ship sailing around the Cape to California. Again I haven't finished reading it but it's given me a really good insight into the day to day operations of a merchant ship under the sail.
I've also read a couple of the Horatio Hornblower series, and even Louis L'amour's "Fair Blows the Wind" to see how he dealt with pirates and sailing ships.
This definitely helped me with my outline for NaNo, and when I was writing it brought a sense of reality to the scenes I was seeing in my mind and trying to put down on paper. I know I've got a lot of editing to do on this to get it up to spec for submission but you can read the first couple of paragraphs in my excerpt here http://www.nanowrimo.org/user/136553
Without knowing exactly what you wrote I can't tell if it's cliche'. Here are a few things that are cliche' and usually did not happen.
1) Walking the Plank. I think there is only one recorded instance of where pirates made anyone walk the plank, and that was a ships captain that refused to surrender.
2) Jolly Roger. Most pirates did not fly the "skull and crossbones", they made their own flag that often portrayed some aspect of death (skeleton, skulls, corpses, that sort of thing). Usually the flew a blood red banner (Joli Rouge in French) which was the symbol of "No Quarters Given".
3) Attacking with broadsides. The goal of the pirates was to board a ship and take what ever supplies they needed. If they were engaged in a prolonged battle with cannon they ran the risk of sinking the prize and not getting any loot. (see below) They would often steal rope, bindings, supports, and any food that they could get their hands on. Gold was a secondary priority, useful but if their ship sank due to ill-repair they couldn't spend that gold.
4) Pirates were not commonly allowed access to ports to make repairs to their ships, so they would have to careen them on a beach or hidden cove. Because they were not allowed into ports they could not buy the supplies they needed to maintain the ships properly. They would beach the ship and haul her over on her side so that they could scrap the barnacles and other creatures off the hull that would weaken the wood planking. This took time and if you needed to replace the siding or other support structures of the ship you wanted pieces ready to use.
5) Buried Treasure: There is no such thing as a "treasure map" and X most definitely does not mark the spot. Pirates, if and when they made shore leave (usually in Port Royal which was a big pirate haunt before the earthquake leveled it) the crew was given their "cut" of the money they had plundered. The men would then go off and drink them selves into oblivion, wench their way to a case of the pox, or lose what they had left in gambling at the taverns. Their money was usually spent withing a couple of weeks and they would have to go out and make more with another pirate voyage.
Hope this helps a little bit.
----------2007 NaNo "Pyrates Hunter"
Body Count:
Killed: 6
Wounded: 9
Kidnapped: 11
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Feb 11, 2008 - 08 46
I LOVE FAIR BLOWS THE WIND! I just finished it on Saturday, and it is great. "The Walking Drum" is also a good book in relation to some pirates, also by Louis L'Amour.
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Feb 14, 2008 - 22 04
I should have corrected this earlier.
I have "Fair Blows the Wind" and "The Walking Drum" but only just started "Fair".
I'm surprised that picked them up at the library used book sale as I'm not a big Louis L'Amour fan. I really don't care much for westerns or cowboy junk. I only read one other book by him "Haunted Mesa" and I could take or leave it.
anyway, I hope the rest of the information helped with the pirate stuff.
----------2007 NaNo "Pyrates Hunter"
Body Count:
Killed: 6
Wounded: 9
Kidnapped: 11
50,329 / 50,000
Feb 15, 2008 - 13 02
The two mentioned above ("Fair" and "The Walking Drum") Are among my favorites. They aren't westerns or cowboy novels, but they have the magic and feeling of L'Amour's other works.
If you want to read good westerns, I'd try Comestock Lode or The Lonesome Gods. Both are excellent.
I agree on The Haunted Mesa. It is not among my favorite books by L'Amour.
57,247 / 50,000
Feb 15, 2008 - 21 54
Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
I HATE cowboy/westerns. I will read almost anything else under the sun before I'll even consider reading one of those.
Even one of those *shudder* damned Harlequin Romances.
I really feel like I need a shower now. *shudders again*
----------2007 NaNo "Pyrates Hunter"
Body Count:
Killed: 6
Wounded: 9
Kidnapped: 11
50,329 / 50,000
Feb 16, 2008 - 14 59
My apologies. I did not realize the degree of your vehemence.
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Abr 19, 2008 - 12 38
Wow, this board is dead!
Can anyone recommend some research books on pirates after the Golden Age, but before the modern era?
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Abr 19, 2008 - 14 41
I have a lot of books for you, but currently I can't find the titles. There's a book called "Pirates!" but I forgot the author's name.
----------I have sites, but currently can't give them to you since I'm on a different computer. But a great documentary is the History Channel's documentary "True Carribean Pirates". It's a must-see!
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50,329 / 50,000
Abr 21, 2008 - 09 34
Is the book Pirates! by Celia Rees?
50,582 / 50,000
Abr 21, 2008 - 16 40
yes, I think so, thank you :)
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Abr 23, 2008 - 14 43
Thanks. I didn't see that one in the library but I did do my research and...shoot, no pirates in the time and place I chose. Wanna help me break it to my scalawags that they no longer exist?
There goes half my outline.
50,582 / 50,000
Abr 24, 2008 - 06 16
Give them a beer bottle, they'll get over it ;)
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50,329 / 50,000
Abr 24, 2008 - 13 27
Getting them drunk is always a good plan. :D
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Mayo 4, 2008 - 16 55
Funny story about modern day pirates..... my brother was doing his sea term at Mass Maritime, and when they were down at the Panama canal some pirates tried to board their ship in the middle of the night.... Can you imagine how excited all the cadets were to be busting the pirates? How dumb were these pirates anyway?
:) Jen
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Mayo 4, 2008 - 17 04
For Pirate comedy, there's The Pirate's of Penzance, which is really a light opera, but who cares... You've got to see the version with Kevin Kline.
Also in the Pirate comedy category is the whole "The Pirates!" series by Gideon Defoe. They are hilarious. Some of his tittles include "The Pirates! in an Adventure with the Scientists" and "The Pirates! in an Adventure with the Communists"
:) Jen