Pursuant to our discussion last evening, 10/11, at Mo'Joe's about outlines and how much you should outline, and does it ruin things or make it better, I offer up this snippet from an interview with Brad Thor that I just read this morning:
Q: Do you know the end when you begin?
Thor: I know what the resolution needs to be. In the outline I present the problem...here's what's at stake, here's the problem, here's what's interesting, here are some of the characters that feed into this, here are the supporting plot lines. The end is going to be the resolution of the plot line. In "The Lions of Lucerne," I knew the end was going to be the rescuing of the president. But when I set out I didn't know how he was going to be rescued or where he was going to be rescued. I try to keep it as broad as possible ecause that keeps it interesting for me. [cut text] ...But what's funny is that a lot of times, the final book doesn't necessarily reflect the outline perfectly. As I'm writing the book, the story gets better. The more I get into it, the more I realize there's more to this story than I thought. That's the fun for me, and I don't like to spoil it."
Just some more thoughts on outlines and how they fit or don't fit into the final work. I have not written an outline yet, but I see the value in it, and I've begun turning it over in my head. Jason's simple idea that it's good to know your starting point is something I probably wouldn't have thought about until I sat down and stared at the keyboard on November 1 and my brain locked up. I don't want to ruin the story for myself, but I should have some idea of where to start, and where to head. I suppose my lack of familiarity with all of this is due to the fact that I've never written a novel-length work before, and short stories, well, how much is there to outline for ten to twenty pages of words? If you actually outline, you've pretty much written half of the story.
That said, I realize that there are plenty of people for whom this sort of thing works and works wonderfully. These are just a few of my own (and Brad's) thoughts on getting from Point A to Point B without losing too much hair or sleep. Many of you are probably already fully aware of these new finer points of mine, but I did find it interesting that I came across a passage directly related to this just twelve hours after we discussed it. Anyone with further opinions, thoughts, or questions is more than welcome to contribute here. I hope that this will in some way encourage me to get a few thoughts down on paper/disc before the end of the month. 'Twould be sad if I started off this whole thing with a panic-induced writer's block.
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"What could I do if I did not have to do it perfectly? A lot more than I am now."
150,277 / 50,000
Oct 12, 2008 - 07 45
I just this morning sat down and jotted some notes (an outline, if you want to call it that) for the first several scenes of my book -- who's there, who we meet (that I know of), what happens, etc. I have a sense of peace about this November which I didn't three hours ago, just because I know that when I sit down to write in the wee hours of November 1, I'll know where I'm going during those first 12-48 hours. That gives me the courage to get going, plus gives me a bit of wiggle room while I suss out who my characters really are, what they really want, etc. I don't have to worry about getting lost during that process, because I've got my "outline" to keep me centered, at least until the story takes on that life of its own and gets itself going.
It's always helpful to see that another author does it our way, or has opinions similar to ours -- but for any of you who don't do the same thing or aren't outlining, just remember that you're doing it right, too. :)
50,473 / 50,000
Oct 13, 2008 - 06 05
Each novel I have done has developed in a different fashion. The first one, the character took over from page one. I knew certain things had to happen to get to the final resolution, but all the details came about as I wrote from point A to B. A novel I wrote outside of NaNoWriMo had the entire plot outlined, using Evan Marshall's Novel Writing Plan, with each section detailed before writing began. Last year's NaNo, I didn't have any idea what is was about or where it was going and I just kept writing until I got to 50K just before the deadline.
Each one has been a rewarding and enjoyable experience - I think it depends on the particular novel, your own writing style and sometimes the mood you are in as to which works best.
----------Author, The Twenty Dollar Bill
NaNoWriMo Winner: 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
Script Frenzy Winner: 2007, 2008
http://www.lulu.com/KanapolisFog
163,218 / 50,000
Oct 13, 2008 - 08 25
You know, I think it really depends on what a person means when he/she says "outline." When I hear the word, I think of a pretty detailed listing of what happens, scene by scene, chapter by chapter, all the way through the book. However, if you consider a rough sketch of the things that happen at some point in the novel in order to bring the characters from the beginning to the end you have in mind an outline, then I do that almost every book. I don't always know the right place to begin, but I start somewhere. I do know where I want the characters to end up. And then I have a few ideas for places in between--problems they'll have to overcome, conflicts, various events. This gives me tons of freedom to write, but also gives me a bit of a guideline to keep me from going completely off somewhere I don't want to be. I still consider that "seat of the pants" writing as opposed to writing by outline. Maybe it's not entirely. ;-)
I think whatever gets you through the book from start to finish--be it a scene by scene listing, a rough sketch, or nothing at all--is perfectly right for you. There is no right or wrong way to write. Well, there is. If you're just talking about writing and NOT writing, that's the wrong way to do it. ;-) One of my (very many) favorite Russell T. Davies quotes (though he's not the first or only to say it) "Greatest Writing Lesson Ever: stop bloody yapping and get on with it.." (Incidentally, said with a Welsh/British accent ;-) )
----------Tara ~ Co-ML, Indianapolis
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10 10
I agree with Tara's post above. To quote, "I think whatever gets you through the book from start to finish--be it a scene by scene listing, a rough sketch, or nothing at all--is perfectly right for you." Agreed! And if it gets someone to their word count, more power to them. I also agree with Tara's reason for using an outline: "this gives me tons of freedom to write, but also gives me a bit of a guideline to keep me from going completely off somewhere I don't want to be" . Or in my case, outlines keep me going somewhere, period.
Have any of you tried the "Snowflake" method of outlining/preparing a novel? I intend to try it this year. I plan to start working on that later this week. Any thoughts on that one?
----------"A student from whom nothing is demanded which he cannot do, never does all he can." - John Stuart Mill (Autobiography)
51,417 / 50,000
Oct 13, 2008 - 11 11
With outlines, I think a lot of it depends on the kind of thinker you are... In general "good" fiction tends to take off and drag you (the writer) along for much of the ride... so if you start with an outline, don't get married to it, because you never know when an alluring plot twist or change will walk in out of the rain and stick its tongue in your ear or something and cause you to need to scrap the outline all together....
But, if you're like me, an outline is helpful because I tend to think in terms of images, rather than plot, at least initially... to use an analogy, if novels are movies, I have a tendancy to think in still photographs. An outline helps me get my still images moving, as it were...
But I almost never outline to the end... Rarely do I start out knowing where I (or the characters) am (are) going. Introduce yourself to the characters... ask them some questions... buy them a drink... find out what makes them tick, and get them going.
----------"Adventure and love?... there's no such thing as adventure and love. there's only trouble and desire."
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Oct 14, 2008 - 09 32
I didn't outline in 2006 and won. I outlined in 2007 and didn't get anywhere. I was going to outline again this year because I like to think that I'm organized. However, I've decided not to outline. I'm just going to go with the flow and see what happens. If I feel like things aren't flowing well, then I might jot down a few things as an outline and try it. With being a full-time student, mom, worker, and wife - I'm going to be really busy and am just hoping that I can at least get 1 sentence done.
----------What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger.
2008: Undecided
2007: The Museum Murders (working title)
2006: Joss and Jerome (working title) 52,000
50,116 / 50,000
Oct 15, 2008 - 19 02
I did not outline in 2005 or 2006 and could not make it to 50k.
Last year I outlined pretty much the whole thing and I won! So, I guess for me they are essential.
The most important part for me is having an ending. I'm not saying it has to be THE ending, but knowing where I am going so I don't freak out on Nov 30th is a huge thing for me. I guess the outline is more of a series of guide posts of what I want to accomplish in the story. I find it very helpful for when I am out of inspiration, lost or just hate the scene I'm writing. On a related topic: I've never really done in-depth character sketches or anything, but for the past few years I have definitely had an idea in my mind of how characters will behave, talk, think, etc. Again, more of a guide than a hard-and-fast rule for how things turn out.
----------http://indyhermit.blogspot.com
http://tracesofgeek.blogspot.com