Too young? ...or not?

Well 13 is pretty young to deal with sex. I know lots of kids are having sex at that age, but I don't think it's because they are feeling sexual. I think it's a pressure thing more than anything at that age. That's my only comment really.

They are close enough in age that it's I believe in most places technically legal.

My mind not only wanders sometimes it leaves completly ...

Totally depends on the book. I mean a romance between two mayflies could be really tricky if you waited until they were 18.

Mine has a group of engineered humans who (because of genetic mangling) mature, age and die prematurely often before they hit double figures. They have a system where, at 30 months, they can apply for "Consent cards", requiring a psychological and medical test for maturity. Once you have a consent card you are considered an adult with all that entails. If you don't apply for one, you can remain a child forever. FMC first had sex at 3, had a child at age 7, died (my current excerpt) at 10.

Between normal humans, though... it still depends. I think people are slowly maturing past the "omg underage = evil, burn the book and then the author" to the point where they realise that childhood is one of the most powerfully emotive times of our lives, and there are a hell of a lot of extremely intense stories to be told in that time. Just look at the bestseller racks in supermarkets and bookstores. They are coated with slatherings of child abuse now - all in their black-n-white "I'm trying to look like 'A Child Called It'"covers.

Personally I love playing around with that whole innocence thing - it lends the tale a whole lot more oomph.

Handled reasonably, a two yearold in an adult situation could work: it would just require an hell of a lot of thought on how to handle it, at least if you intend to publish it or show it to friends who will judge you. A gritty, realistic approach would be best, focusing on negative emotions: the fear, the guilt, the shame, the pain. Also the reasons they do it: a desire to please, stuff like that. If you write from an "abuse survivor" point of view, there's pretty much no limit to the horrors you can inflict on your characters.

But if you do out-n-out, erotic, read-this-with-one-hand type porn between a 15 yearold and a 2 yearold, without focusing on the effects it has on them, the psychology and repercussions, the reasons they are doing it, well, I won't condemn you, but a hell of a lot of people will: be careful who you show your book to. Some people have a hard time distinguishing between the stories that our muses force us to write, and reality.

In either case, survivor-story or porn, those who do not condemn you will be even worse: they will assume your two yearold is really you, and they will pity you.

If you want excerpt critiqueing, I'd be happy to.

[edit - I missed the important word "younger" - two years younger, not two years. In that case, yeah, you can go a lot farther along the erotica line, but still be careful of lynch parties. The grittier the better. I am already critiqueing a few stories with kids in their mid to late teens, and to be honest, I find tht more realistic. I know very few people who waited until they were legal before experimenting sexually, and the "innocent 18 yearold" type fiction has always caught in my craw as being completely and utterly unrealistic. However, beware of your local laws. Some places you could be arrested and locked up for years for creating underage porn.]

Buddies welcome, scripts discussed, etc :)

I recently read Towelhead by Alicia Erian. It depicted two 13-year-olds having consensual sex, as well as the 13-year-old girl having non-consensual sex with a 36-year-old man. It was very explicit. Disturbing? Yep. But it was supposed to be. (Can you tell I'm a parent?) Very powerful book.

I pressed down the mental accelerator. The old lemon throbbed fiercely. I got an idea.

--Bertie Wooster

You don't think 13 year olds feel sexual? I know I certainly had sexual feelings from about the age of 8 or 9, and by 13 they were pretty well developed. But perhaps everyone's different...

I'm certainly not advocating that thirteen year olds should behaving sex - in almost all cases, they would not be emotionally ready - but I don't think we should deny them their sexual feelings.

~ Olympias

I think it would depend n the nature of your writing, see my experience of sex being young was it was just shit, you have no clue about anything, what you like, you are too embarassed to say anything to the guy etc...i have never met a thirteen year old who was having incredible mind blowing sex..it tends to be embarassed, non orgasming sex, but this is merely my opinion....Maybe other people have had different experiences?

I was playing rub crotch on thigh sorts of games by the time I was 6 with my cousins who were 1 and 2 years older, and was masturbating to orgasm by the time I was 12. Could I have had sex at 13 and enjoyed it? Definitely, if the person involved had been close to my age, so not spooky, and wasn't hugely endowed. Though I'm quite content that I did not.

"Between me and life there is a mist of words always." Wilde

I think it's also dependant on what culture and time period you live in. I understand that over in Japan for example the age of consent is just 13 (or so I've heard), where as in Canada it's (I think) 16 and of course here in the U.S. it's 18. Also in medieval times people married very early. A woman of 30 could easily have been married, widowed, remarried and be a grandmother back then. Even in colonial america there were those who wed young I believe. Of course people could live shorter life spans back then as well due to the poor health care and diet that our ancestors had at the time.

Charles R. Brentner

I'd say that as long as you realistically portray the consequences of somebody that young having sex, then really, no age is too young. If, as someone else here said, it's basically porn, then there's going to be some gray area in the early teenage years and then probably no-go before that. BUT this applies only if you intend to publish. If it's not going anywhere besides your hot little hands or some friends, write whatever you like! The internet can be another gray area with that, so look at rules and regs before you post.

To the person who complained about "innocent at 18" stories... well, some of us really WERE sexually innocent at that age, including self-pleasure (nothing to do with any conceptions of virtue; I'm just kind of a boring person). I'm not applauding or deriding that, I'm just sayin'. It's perfectly realistic for some people. And not for others. That's cool too. I do understand that a lot of times characters are portrayed this way solely to stay within consent laws and one particular view of normal, and that DOES get old.

In some cultures 13 is the beginning of adulthood. Thirteen for some is quite a mature age, where exploration drives them to try things they have seen on tv or in person (their parents or siblings). When the characters are the same age I would consider it exploration. I have read stories where the girl is 13 and the boy is nearly 20, and older, which is statutory rape in most states. However in other centuries the girl could be married by then so step in this area carefully.

Well, Juliet (as in Romeo and Juliet) was thirteen in the play - it is set just before her 14th birthday. And her mother says "I was your mother much upon these years that you are now a maid" (1.3.74-75) Romeo, for reference, is supposed to be around 18 years old, I believe....

So it depends greatly on when and where your novel is set, as well as the maturity of your character. You said she's not very mature, so she might not feel ready, or she could be easily swayed by the older boyfriend because she perceives him as "cool" because he is older.

And as a last point.... there was a kid in Manchester in the UK who had a baby at 11, so she was apparently already having sex at 10.

Wow, I don't feel so bad about planning next year's NaNo the way that I was planning it now. And yes, I'm planning next year before I've finished this year. And yes, I know that's not productive. Thanks for the advice (to someone else!). It's actually mede me feel like I'm not some kinda freaky perv now.

:hugs everyone:

The first draft of anything is shit.--Hemingway

thanks a lot guys, I really needed some help. You can comment more, I'll read what you have to say anytime. And yes, I would like excerpt comments if possible. And actually, they are mature enough phisically and spiritually, because... Oh hell, just read what I posted on my account. I'll add some more explanation there.

Ummm, actually, he's more innocent than she is, and, I don't know how to say this, but he's scared. Way more scared than anyone could imagine. I really like that character, I poured some of my soul into him ( as I do with all of my male characters(man, I associate more with men than women)) And by the way, try to guess how old am I after you read my scribblings...
I wonder...

I said they don't have sex because they are feeling sexual. I think it's more of a pressure thing than I'm going to get off with sex thing.

My mind not only wanders sometimes it leaves completly ...

My mind not only wanders sometimes it leaves completly ...

Youngest recorded girl who got pregnant was 8 =/
Apparently.

07 November Nano: Child Of The Gallows: 21K.
08 April Nano: We'll see...

the only reason I didn't have sex until I was 14 was because I didn't have anyone to have sex with until I was 14.

That said, while I don't regret doing it that young, I don't think I would recommend it to someone else. I had more than enough sexual feelings when I was in *5th grade*. I can remember how I felt when I was 14, and first having sexual contact with someone, and I was so desperate for it that I was willing to completely ignore reason. (For me to completely ignore reason is kind of strange.) That's a very dangerous state of mind.

I think if you write a story with a 15 year old guy and a 12 year old girl, that's going to make a lot of people squeamish. If that's the point, go for it. Otherwise, be prepared.

I agree with Olympias here. I was feeling sexual when I was 11 years old. The only reasons I did NOT have sex at the time were 1) because I had no one to have sex with, and 2) because of the pressure from the important people in my life not to do it. Had I had a different situation, I guarantee you I would have done so, and would have enjoyed it immensely.

But like Olympias also said, I'm not saying a person that age should be doing it; on the contrary, I think the way we Americans look at adulthood and such, most people that age, at least in the States, would be devastated by the implications that would surround the act.

15/13 pairing is probably alot more common in real life than many people would like to admit.

--Shake Your Paranoia--

5, actually, is the youngest pregnancy on record. The little girl in Peru in 1939.

*random information is fun. Can't remember why I knew this*

Damn, yeah, that's wild. She'd evidentally been having regular periods since she was eight months old.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g60/MagdaSullivan/BloodRedRoses.jpg

One of the couples in my story is actually an 'illegal' couple, technically. Their relationship started when he was 14-going-on-15 and she was around 22 or 21. He was emotionally and physically matured (although he's still growing up at age 17) and he was the one chasing her. I'm planning on doing their story next year (or January).

EDIT - sorry! noob messing up the board here... just ignore this.

I work with teenagers and was running a book club for my 13-14 year olds yesterday. They were looking at a book prize shortlist and one of the kids said that last year's winner had had rather 'adult content' (his words). So not only are there 13-15 year olds having sex in books, 13-15 year olds are reading books with that content. One of last year's books dealt with a 15 year old getting pregnant (meaning that we've upped the age limit for the club from 11-12 to 13-14 this year!) I think your idea sounds fine. If they're doing it in young adult books, you could do it in erotic.