Overachievers Forum

People with lower word counts, and even some behind, cheer the overachievers. And the overachievers cheer everyone. Methinks that if some are being scared off it's just an excuse to not write. Easy to blame it on someone else rather than take the responsibility yourself. If people want to do NaNo they'll do it, if they don't they won't. Simple as that. ::barring major a crisis in their life::

Seems like there's a lot of this going on this year. Makes me sad.

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We don't have any plans to change the site to allow personal goals; our challenge is 50k, and I'm fairly sure that's going to remain the focus.

Overachievers are just as welcome to post in the forums as underachievers... we don't want anyone to feel like they aren't welcome! NaNoWriMo is a personal challenge, and no one should ever be "scared off" because other have challenged themselves to do more.

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Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
Liquid Story Binder, on sale for 50% off during November!
A Dragon Writes

I'm glad to see this addressed. I'm happy enough in the thread we have, but I was just thinking that the low-word-counts do seem a bit touchier this year. Glad to see it's not just me (although no, no one's said anything directly to me). I wouldn't hate a new board, though! That thread is getting long. :D

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What am I doing still awake?

...Oh wait.

I got the impression that the "This is going better than I had hoped" forum was used for this purpose?

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2006 - Leaving Mirtan (Winner)
2009 - One Day at a Time

I believe that was the intention. I came to possess this belief because one year I thought we could just combine the Going Better and Ate My Soul forums and it became apparent that people doing well don't want anything to do with people who aren't and vice versa.

The overachievers or massive goals folks are also free to start threads (and have) in the shoutouts forums.

I really don't like the idea of segregating people. (Or isolating/insulating, as it seems it's called if it's self-selected.) Some people will struggle at nanowrimo, some people won't. There's nothing to be gained by either group if they don't know that the other exists. But there may be much they can learn from each other.

If the idea of someone doing well or poorly is too disturbing, having private forums isn't really going to solve the larger issues.

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NaNoWriMo & ScriptFrenzy Staff

As Dragonchilde knows too well, there are some "overachievers" for whom things are decidedly not going better than they hoped... and who got less than a pleasant welcome when they tried to have a "my goal is bigger than 50k and it's not working" thread in the Ate My Soul forum.

I'm curious as to why the "overachievers" aren't making themselves at home in the rule-breakers' forum. Probably because it says something about rule breaking (I can't remember the title of the forum) and they don't feel like they're breaking any rules.

Maybe changing the name of the rule-breakers' forum ("The Sky's the Limit" perhaps?) or adding an explicit "much higher word-count" clause to the forum description would help?

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Sarah Marie Parker-Allen

Around chapter 8 my main character has to decide whether or not to undo the events that led to the total annihilation of Austin, Chicago, Lima (Peru) and Vancouver/Seattle. It's harder than it sounds, okay?

Well, the thing is... we don't WANT overachievers to feel like they aren't a part of this challenge. They absolutely ARE. Nothing they are doing is outside of the scope of the challenge, or against the rules. The rules even explicitly state that the 50,000 goal is a threshold... not a limit.

The title of that forum is NaNo Rebels.And those shooting for more than 50k aren't rebelling, they're doing it by the book, and just not stopping.

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Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
Liquid Story Binder, on sale for 50% off during November!
A Dragon Writes

*cringes and waves a little white flag*

I have to admit I'm one of those who does *not* like seeing overachievers in the not-going-well part of the forum. I have nothing against those who shoot for more then 50k, but when I'm struggling to eek out a few hundred words, seeing ALREADY GREEN bars in the part of the forum that is for people who AREN'T doing well is very VERY off-putting.

I would fully support a seperate place for overachievers simply so we can all write in peace, us strugglers without having to see those huge wordcounts, and the overachievers not feeling like they don't belong. .... Woah that sentence sucked.

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Some people hear voices.. Some see invisible people.. Others have no imagination whatsoever.

I'm going the overachieving route this year, although not drastically. I feel welcome on the boards, but the threads for overachievers pop up in nearly every forum, and I think it might be a good idea to have one board to filter it all through. It could be in the Nano groups category. I would definitely frequent that board. There are a lot of overachievers in Nano, and the threads are scattered everywhere. I don't think it would ostracize them to have their own board, any more than it ostracizes the writers of the Military Lounge or other more specific categories.

Just my two cents.

I'm also overachieving, though again, not as drastically as others are. When there was NaNo, there were overachievers, and overachievers go through the same struggles, even if those way behind on word count don't see it. We go through blocks and non-NaNoing struggles. We get stuck. We have days when we just don't want to keep going. Sometimes we just want to throw the whole thing out and start over. Making a forum for the overachievers would be very off-putting in saying that they're less welcome than the traditional NaNoers. We're not rebels. We just don't stop.

If someone's scared off by another NaNoer with a different word count goal, they should just remember that NaNo is welcoming of all writers, and everyone has their own goals and abilities.

(Seriously, though, if my NaNoMail's any indicator, I can imagine what the inboxes of those with green bars look like...)

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Witty signature feature broken. Please try again later.
http://www.sushimustwrite.com

It's already been said, where do you draw the line? I've seen some complaints made in the Shout Out area. I've seen it said that those with higher word counts shouldn't update and keep the word count bar lower than what they have. People with higher word counts cheer on those who are struggling, but that puts their posts in areas where, I guess, they shouldn't be posting. I don't post sometimes, when I otherwise would, because I have a slightly higher word count, and it makes me fee bad that I might cause someone else feel down.

So, people with higher word counts shouldn't be on this forum at all. Put them in a forum all of their own. Segregating. Nasty word, as far as I'm concerned.

And what are some of the mods who have higher word counts suppose to do? Let the board go to run rampant?

It's already been stated that there isn't going to be a separate forum board, and I, for one, am happy about that. This is a community of writers of all ages, all walks of life, different goals, and the list could go on. No one is competing with anyone, we are all struggling to write our novels, even those with higher word counts struggle because they've set the bar higher this year. NaNo is a challenge to yourself and no one else.

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I could be way off but the feeling that i get is that the people having trouble reaching 50k are thinking "you already have 50k, thats a win, stop complaining" because by the rules 50k is a win. When you cant reach a goal its frustrating to see other people who already passed it whining. Not saying its right just saying thats what i'm seeing.

I would think that a separate board would only make those feeling worse. I think its a very bad idea.

Obviously i am not one of you overachievers however i think you need to try to be the bigger people. People harassing you are acting like little kids. Show that your a better person then that and just ignore them. Easier said then done i'm sure and i have no clue what sort of crap you people are getting but getting flustered is only going to make them think they can get to you and they will get worse.

Dont let anyone keep you from enjoying nano! ^_^

I've always been of the opinion that if you're not struggling with Nano, you're doing it wrong. ;) It's a challenge, so if you're not struggling, you're not challenging yourself.

I'm against the idea of a separate forum. IMHO, it's a silly idea.

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Goal: 200k 260k. My wordcount was going to be an average, but we need to beat the pants off Denver, right?
Part of the evil triumvirate of Atlanta and Shoutouts moderator.

I don't really think separating them will do much difference. There's still other areas of the forum, and then in the Overachievers they then may still feel bad. Some will consider 75,000 to be overachieving. Some will consider 200,000 to be overachieving.

Everyone just needs to learn to band together and write ;) Honestly, if seeing someone's high work count makes you hate your own, then you don't have enough to worry about otherwise. They shouldn't let it get to them, for there'll ALWAYS be someone who wrote more words than you did, and they'll ALWAYS be someone who wrote a lot less.

This is a self challenge. Nothing else. AND, it's just supposed to be for fun :D

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___
· Katharine
· ML of Elsewhere Australia
· Elsewhere Australia has a Twitter!

i have to say that i like the idea of making a forum in the nanogroups section. i know that i personally was really, really dissapointed by the beginning of the overachievers (now the 'aiming high') thread in nano ate my soul. maybe i'm being oversensitive since i'm the OP of that thread, but the whole thing really made me sad. thank goodness it's stopped now (dragonchilde, i bow to you again for putting a stop to it all) but i know that a couple people at least are still getting harassed via pm/aim/email/whatever.

i don't see it as a matter of segration, or even of feeling unwelcome, but rather one of having a 'place.' i agree with the poster who said that the overachiever threads are kind of all over. it would be nice to have one place in which to put them all. i don't see it as any more segration than, say, seperating by genre.

dunno if this'll help any. just my two cents. i haven't recieved any personal hate mail yet, but, then, i don't post in the forums very much anymore. honestly, the whole debacle in nano ate my soul really, really put me off posting. i want to conserve the illusion that all nanos are nice and friendly and supportive.

thanks,
--anne

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Please have them report/forward the harrassing PMs/emails to Dragonchilde. She can whip out her modstick and put a stop to that tomfoolery.

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Goal: 200k 260k. My wordcount was going to be an average, but we need to beat the pants off Denver, right?
Part of the evil triumvirate of Atlanta and Shoutouts moderator.

Seconded. The Codes of conduct apply *everywhere* - even in NaNoMails.Uncool, and unacceptable. I'm not going to have people getting harassed on *my* forums.

...errr, Chris's forums. yeah.

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Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
Liquid Story Binder, on sale for 50% off during November!
A Dragon Writes

I was going to pop in and say that hey, you have the highest post count, so technically they're your forums, but then I actually checked and you don't. sushimustwrite's got like 300 more than you. I would attribute this to the existence of the Games forum :D In fact I recognise most of the top ten post count people from Games...

(And I have the 8th most posts. This makes me absurdly proud of myself for no apparent reason.)

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Municipal Liaison for Australia and New Zealand :: Melbourne
Moderator for Games, Diversions, and Other Exciting Forms of Procrastination

I actually like seeing the overachievers and the bars that have already gone green! I'm doing really badly this year, and I find it encouraging when I see other people doing well, because it seems to spur me on a bit more and make me more determined - I think, "well, it's obviously possible and if other people can do it, so can I!"

I'm not sure there's much sense in segregating them - there's the This Is Going Better Than I'd Hoped forum, for people who are doing well and the NaNo Ate My Soul one for those of us who aren't, anyway, and there are other forums that anyone can post in, such as Plot Doctoring, etc (well, pretty much every other forum, really!), so people are still going to see the high wordcounts around the site.

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2006 - Of Lost Causes
2007 - Those Who Wait
2008 - Clock Watchers

Haven't won once, but had fun!

Ah, but I'll bet I have the highest *real* post count.

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Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
Liquid Story Binder, on sale for 50% off during November!
A Dragon Writes

But I don't recognize most of those people from Games. Actually, I don't know a few of those names at all. What does this say?

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Witty signature feature broken. Please try again later.
http://www.sushimustwrite.com

They're probably roleplayers. :)

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Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator
Liquid Story Binder, on sale for 50% off during November!
A Dragon Writes

Most over achievers encourage other writers who are having problems.
SOME under achievers encourage over achievers who are having problems. (And these people I really appreciate. Thank you)

Gee, what a discrepancy.

I've been an over achiever since my very first Nano, with 116k the first year and 150k the second year. This year I got nailed with a flu that took me down for an entire week starting the second day in November. Even now, I'm still struggling with the exhaustion it caused.

And I didn't feel like I could post about it and get a little encouragement. My goal for this year was slipping away, and I didn't feel like I could ask for a little help. Why? Well, look at all the posts that have been put into the various over achiever threads. "Don't whine, you're ahead!" seems to be the gist of most of them.

Great. I was/am already depressed. Having people attack me for being a whiner was just going to depress me further.

Nano wasn't going well for me. I'm not making my goal. I, as a writer in distress, did not feel welcome.

So I didn't post.

Yes, the over achievers have the right to be in any forum. No, we are not breaking any rules. And yet, in many forums we don't fit in. When things start going badly for us, we aren't 'allowed' the same types of encouragement as others.

I know the moderators try to stomp on the negativity thrown at the over achievers. This is really appreciated. But the result is still the same. Most of us feel if we post that we've just made ourselves a big target for unwarranted negativity.

For that reason, I would love to see and over achiever forum. A place where we do feel welcome and belong. A place where it's obvious that we can get the encouragement that we are so often denied in other forums. For that reason I don't agree that the 'segregation' is a bad thing. I don't think its segregation. It's being welcomed and having a place where we can just be ourselves.

Note: I do understand the Nano crew being concerned about forum real estate.

Note: even in this thread there are those who have said they don’t want to see those with big counts complaining. Right there is the reason I posted this (I was going to just shut up). We just aren't as welcome.

Now going back to writing silently and hoping to figure this out on my own.

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***
Julieann Dreamer
http://jamarlow.com

Nano 2009: Into the Forest Shadows
Nano 2008: The Phoenix Eggs: WON
Nano 2007: The String Weavers: WON!

Another problem with doing this is the definition of an overachiever. Is it a word count? Is it finishing in a certain time frame? There are some people walking around with astronomical word counts and those who clear 50K inside of three days -- I think we can all agree on them. But what about someone who does 65K within a month? Or 50K in three weeks? Where is the break? Who gets to decide?

The logical answer is that the author gets to decide, but a quick read of the forums will tell you it's not that simple. For some people intimidated by others' word counts and/or speed, the definition appears to be, 'Someone who is doing way, way better than I am to the point where I'm uncomfortable.'

Then you have people who unintentionally fall into this category. When I began, I had no idea how quickly I'd complete this year's novel. I'm pleased, but I don't think of myself as an overachiever. Certain events conspired to help me for a change (for example, having a holiday on Nov. 2), but I also planned extensively and spent every free moment writing. That's not overachieving. That's a combination of luck and hard work.

Actually, I totally understand people who don't like to see overachievers posting to complain. It's a natural reaction. However, I suspect that some of these same people aren't going to be happy seeing those word counts anywhere on the site, not even if there were a special forum dedicated to overachievers. The very existence of overachievers makes some people unhappy. Further segregation will only perpetuate the 'us vs. them' attitude when it's supposed to be simply 'us' working toward a similar goal.

I say leave the forums as is and let people deal with it, just like they do in real life. There is always someone more or less attractive than you, nicer or meaner, more or less talented, older or younger, happier or sadder -- the list goes on. Closing one's eyes and plugging one's ears might work for a while, but in the end a more effective solution is needed.

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I'm a lousy writer; a helluva lot of people have got lousy taste.

--Grace Metalious

I posted quite simply in a thread saying "I don't get the overachiever hate." I got a PM from someone saying that they were asking how I didn't get it. I told them that I understood some jealous and maybe envy but why hate someone who is doing the exact same thing you are just faster. What could have started out as a flame war turned into a back and forth email about tips and encouragement.

So I guess the expression is "don't let a few rotten eggs spoil the basket." Just because one or two people attacked the overachievers thread doesn't mean we need to shut out the other "however-many-people-are-on-the-forums." Sure there are going to be some people who try to flame and whatever but really, getting a separate place, will just make it worse.

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TwilightMist
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