I'm writing a novel set in an alternative version of the early 21st century. It's mostly like our world but there are some aspects of the Napoleonic era which have been carried over and I've also added a mild Arthurian influence. The world is supposed to be realistic so there are no magic swords, wizards etc, no matter how much I want to include them sometimes, but I do have the Holy Grail and it's the cup of the Last Supper. I've never been able to decide if the Grail has any power or not in the story, although there will be an ongoing theme about belief=power, regardless of whether or not it has any genuine powers. I'm thinking that it would be cool to have a possible power for it if I did want to bring that aspect into the story but I'm stuck for ideas. It would have to be something subtle to preserve the realism so things like resurrecting the dead and healing wounds won't work. Does anyone have any ideas? Any suggestions will be gratefully received,
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8,054 / 50,000
Dec 3, 2007 - 18 56
Two ideas- one realistic, one not
First, how about immortality?
Second, because it was from the last supper, how about the person who has the Holy Grail believes in God more, and also his/her prayers always come true.
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Dec 3, 2007 - 21 31
A feeling of God's presence. Like standing out in the sun after spending a lifetime in a cave, only much, much more addicting.
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Dec 3, 2007 - 22 07
Or, it could be all about the ongoing quest for the Holy grail. It isn't the grail itself, but what the grail represents and all that the characters do to get there. Once they get there, it's just a cup. So I would say it has to do with hope and striving for something extraordinary?
50,130 / 50,000
Dec 3, 2007 - 22 49
Why is resurrecting people or healing wounds not realistic? In the Gospels, Jesus is shown doing those very things.
But here are some other ideas: people holding it tell the truth or it burns them, people have clearer spiritual visions, People are safe from negative or evil forces while holding it.
Good luck!
----------/s/ Moogie
"She had gowns of velvet like poured country cream...and chiffon that spiralled about her like golden smoke...Dorthy Parker
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Dec 4, 2007 - 05 15
Thanks to everyone who's responded so far. More ideas are of course welcome but for now I'll respond to each of the posters in turn with my thoughts:
Nuwanda
Well the current owner of the grail aka the Emperor of Europe, likes the idea of immortality but sadly it won't work otherwise his real-life ancestor Napoleon would still be living neary 200 years after his death. Also the guy in question has only been in possession of the grail for about a year following the death of his father, the previous "owner" so again the immortality idea wouldn't work. As for belief in God, again it won't work because this guy believes he's destined to be the "new" Napoleon and to do what his ancestor couldn't (and therefore be better than his idol) so he's adopted Napoleon's atheism. He's the one who believes that the legend of the grail is its only power and encourages his subjects to believe it has magic powers he benefits from even though his own opinion is that it's just a cup. Althoguh it seems to me now that it would be funny if it did have powers he didn't recognise at first. I like the prayers coming true idea (so does the present owner of the grail!) but as he's not a praying man I suppose I'd have to say it was more a case of the owner's heart's desire coming true regardless of his/her actual religious belief. I have to admit that I'm inclined to grant him his greatest desire for a short period - he certainly won't get to enjoy it for a long time! I also like the idea that with this one there would be some ambiguity as to whether it was the Grail or the holder who realised their ambitions
DeathOfScythes
What would the practical purpose of being able to feel God's presence be? Woud it make the person in the presence of the grail feel all-powerful?
Destroyer of Worlds
The idea of having to search for it fits in with my personal view of the Grail but sadly it won't work in terms of the story, at least not at the moment, as the quest aspect won't be appearing for a long time yet. In my world the Grail has passed from father to son for 200 years since the Bonaparte dynasty first began to rule Europe and the European people know the Imperial family possesses it though it hasn't been seen in public at any time in living memory. The present system is for only the Emperor and his chosen heir to know of its secret location - until the present Emperor broke with tradition by showing his eldest daughter, who can't inherit his throne, as well as his brother . Sadly they're not very good at sharing. The quest for the Grail won't come into being until the "good guys" decide the morale of their armies would increase if they had it instead of the Emperor.
kungfumom
Personally I like the idea of resurrection and healing wounds but we live in a world where many people are sceptical of the Bible, including myself. I wouldn't call myself an atheist, but I'd want to see a miracle for myself before I believed in it. My worry is that people with strong views against the Bible/Christianity or those who only believe in scientific fact wouldn't take me seriously if I wronte about resurrecting the dead and the story is supposed to fit in the realms of "might have been" rather than fantasy, although it's the fantasist in me that insisted on including the Grail and the other Arthurian elements. I really like the idea of it as a lie detector. but would require the Emperor to let other people see it before he knew thats what it did and he's not keen on letting ordinary mortals set eyes on his prized possession. The protection element is interesting too and I'm now debating whether the Emperor would be inclined to take the Grail with him when he goes to war. Until now I'd assumed he'd leave it in its safe location but I've just realised that the only 3 people who know about the secret location are going to war shortly and perhaps the Emperor would dislike leaving the Grail without a "guardian."
50,053 / 50,000
Dec 4, 2007 - 18 23
Personally I like the idea of resurrection and healing wounds but we live in a world where many people are sceptical of the Bible, including myself. I wouldn't call myself an atheist, but I'd want to see a miracle for myself before I believed in it. My worry is that people with strong views against the Bible/Christianity or those who only believe in scientific fact wouldn't take me seriously if I wronte about resurrecting the dead and the story is supposed to fit in the realms of "might have been" rather than fantasy, although it's the fantasist in me that insisted on including the Grail and the other Arthurian elements. I really like the idea of it as a lie detector. but would require the Emperor to let other people see it before he knew thats what it did and he's not keen on letting ordinary mortals set eyes on his prized possession. The protection element is interesting too and I'm now debating whether the Emperor would be inclined to take the Grail with him when he goes to war. Until now I'd assumed he'd leave it in its safe location but I've just realised that the only 3 people who know about the secret location are going to war shortly and perhaps the Emperor would dislike leaving the Grail without a "guardian."
Perhaps whoever drinks from it must tell the truth for a certain amount of time afterwards? Or perhaps holding it makes you tell the truth, and drinking from it allows you to know when the truth is being told?
Possibly the other way around, too - holding it lets you know when the truth is being told, so the Emperor would keep it close to him (maybe in a pocket with a hole so it would touch him and he'd count as holding it) and drinking from it forces you to tell the truth, so he could "generously offer a drink from his own cup" and then just hope no one noticed he wasn't drinking.
(For added drama, perhaps if you're affected by the anti-lying properties and then do lie, you choke on your words, or something.)
Either way it could be subtle enough that if a reader didn't want to accept something as actually miraculous, e wouldn't have to do so, and only accept that the characters thought it was.
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----------Uncle Cosmo, why do they call this a word processor?
It's simple, Skyler. You've seen what food processors do to food, right?
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Uncle Cosmo, why do they call this a word processor?
It's simple, Skyler. You've seen what food processors do to food, right?
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Dec 5, 2007 - 01 14
I was kinda thinking that the feeling would be one of total fulfillment. It would give the person experiencing it a feeling that no matter what happened, no matter how bad the universe is, all is as it should be. Drinking from the cup grands for a brief moment of time absolute knowledge of gods existence and a person's place in the world.
It would work against the athiest general you have, but if he himself doesn't use it, it could be a powerful tool. Giving mass with this cup would provide an amazing boost of faith to the drinker. A faith that can be used to create a new crusade. If he could convince his people that he was god's avatar, he could tell them to do anything.
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Dec 5, 2007 - 13 08
Perhaps whoever drinks from it must tell the truth for a certain amount of time afterwards? Or perhaps holding it makes you tell the truth, and drinking from it allows you to know when the truth is being told?
Possibly the other way around, too - holding it lets you know when the truth is being told, so the Emperor would keep it close to him (maybe in a pocket with a hole so it would touch him and he'd count as holding it) and drinking from it forces you to tell the truth, so he could "generously offer a drink from his own cup" and then just hope no one noticed he wasn't drinking.
I like this idea both ways round. Would it matter what liquid you drank from it? Or would it produce some sort of liquid itself? I guess the answer would be for the emperor to have a "fake" Grail cup of his own so he would have a drink too, the only thing is that if he uses it for this purpose he would never be able to show it in public. It's a possibility though.
(For added drama, perhaps if you're affected by the anti-lying properties and then do lie, you choke on your words, or something.)
I like that suggestion! ;-)
Either way it could be subtle enough that if a reader didn't want to accept something as actually miraculous, e wouldn't have to do so, and only accept that the characters thought it was.
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Uncle Cosmo, why do they call this a word processor?
It's simple, Skyler. You've seen what food processors do to food, right?[/quote]
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Dec 5, 2007 - 13 13
It would work against the athiest general you have, but if he himself doesn't use it, it could be a powerful tool. Giving mass with this cup would provide an amazing boost of faith to the drinker. A faith that can be used to create a new crusade. If he could convince his people that he was god's avatar, he could tell them to do anything.
The Emperor's war isn't really a crusade, just a conquest, but I really like this theory. It's probably the most workable as it could work either with the grail real or because people think it is. The Emperor could bring out the Grail to a public ceremony for the first time in many years to give to his Imperial Guard before they set sail, as a token of his faith to them, and of course with the intention of showing his trust, and then if it had a better effect than expected he would repeat the same with several other regiments in his army, to set the train in motion as their fervour would inevitably spread to their less fortunate colleagues.