Right now my novel is still at the stage of being some notes and scribbles in a spiral notebook designated for that purpose, so it's a little early to be thinking about this, but I am curious.
Me: Hello, everyone. My name is Margaret, and I write about dragonriders.
Random support group: Hiiiiii Margaret.
I know that dragonriders seem to be something overdone in modern fantasy. But I have been doing the worldbuilding for this particular world for [i]years[/i] ... probably since 99 or 2000 (which would have been 8th grade for me; now I'm a senior in college) but it's grown and evolved so much since then that it's pretty much beyond recognizability. One common thread that has stayed the same though is the existence of dragonriders. But, woe betide us all, not only are they dragonriders, but they're [i]dragonriders trying to recapture their former glory[/i]. Right now this is all looking really bad, but hear me out. This was actually written as political allegory, but I'm not going to tell you what it's allegorizing because I'm mean like that :P
In my universe there is the existence of seraphs and demons. These beings are non-sentient forces of light and darkness respectively. About 500 years ago in the history of that world, there was a long and epic war against an evil wizard and his armies. To defeat him, a well meaning summoner brought forth the Demon Lord Adanzartec and his hordes. They succeeded in messing up the evil wizard pretty badly, but they also proved impossible to control and started messing up everything else, too. Long after the war ended, people were still being plagued by the world's new demon problem. As luck would have it, summoning Seraphim was great for healing wounds inflicted by demons, but they were fairly useless at actually fighting them. However, a mage named Roderick Julian, who actually used to work for the evil wizard from before but betrayed him to join the good guys, discovered that the dragons native to that world were slightly more effective at fighting demons than humans were. Before this point, the dragons and humans had shared a mutual dislike, but Roderick managed to befriend one of them. They joined their magic together, and in doing so discovered that they were both orders of magnitude more efficient at fighting demons. Thus the Brotherhood of the Dragonriders was born, and they became the world's most elite fighting force against the demonic hordes.
Fast forward about two hundred and some years later. The dragonriders are doing well protecting the people from demons, and everyone loves them. Little kids around the world dream of being dragonriders when they grow up. One dragonrider, Dorian Bromstead, is particularly renowned in terms of his skill and power. It is he who helps create the Planeshifters, dragonriders who can teleport by shifting between dimensions, and using this new power he is able to use a combination of force and trickery to slay the Demon Lord Adanzartec. Without the head to lead them, his forces are scattered and the rest of the demons are defeated easily. After the Demon Wars ended, the dragonriders became a respected class of magi and priests. However, as one might expect, as the centuries passed, people began to wonder why they had to respect the dragonriders who had not protected them for hundreds of years. Support for the dragonriders waned, and by the time we reach the present day of my novel, they still exist but as only a shell of their former selves, and they are considered a joke by many of the commoners. And there [i]are[/i] still demons at this time, possibly the only reason the dragonriders' continued existence is allowed, but they are much rarer, weaker, and easier to defeat than before.
During the novel, though, the demon population seems to be rising for some unknown reason (actually it's because one of my main characters is way more powerful than she lets on, and she was blackmailed into summoning them, but shhhh the audience isn't supposed to know that until the end), and the main characters start to notice this while they're on a quest to a foreign nation for their own personal reasons. In the end they end up having to rally help from the dragonriders, who suddenly find themselves ill equipped to handle the growing threat. Along the way there's a bunch of political intrigue and backstabbing and false accusations and woefulness.
So the question I ask for you is, is this idea already dead in the water? Are dragonriders so overdone that there is no way this story will ever be taken seriously? Or is there a possible way that I can put my own spin on it, or is it possible that it will still be compelling if written well? Sorry for such a long post, at any rate, and thanks to anyone who actually reads this :)
Oh, and to my defense, I had the idea for dragonriders trying to recapture their former glory LONG before Eragon ever came out. Like I said, it's political allegory, but it's not meant to be obviously such.
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52,549 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 08 57
From reading this synopsis the story seems well thought out and interesting. You happen to have dragon riders, they are (were) designed to stand against a specific threat which has been long absent from the world and their popularity has waned because of that absense not because an eviltm dragon rider arose and killed them all. In my opinion it is that background that has become over used not the presence of dragon riders themselves. There is so much more that can be done with dragons in a novel that it seems a shame for people to keep rehashing the same old plot.
Perhaps I'm being idealistic here but I would think that if you make your story interesting, inventive and more than just a Christopher Paolini clone (which by the sounds of it you have already done in spades) then you should have no problems with being taken seriously. You have been working on your world for long enough that similarities really are unintentional and I think the differences will vastly outweigh them. Anything should be compelling if it is written well so I don't think you have too much cause to worry.
[Edit] - I've never actually read much of Anne McCaffrey's Pern series so I can't comment on that aspect, mostly going from a reader's POV.
43,000 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 08 52
When you said dragonriders, I didn't think Eragon so much as I thought Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern. It's been a looong time since I've read any of those books, but I think her dragonriders too protected the world from a huge threat and were praised and revered, but respect for said dragonriders gradually waned after the threat vanished for a time, blah de blah...
Her dragons can also teleport.
I don't like writing anything off as automatically cliche or unusuable, because I've found that with enough creativity you can salvage just about anything. However, I'd be very careful in writing about dragonriders. Perhaps there are enough small details that are unique that they'd help cover the more cliche-y bits? Just a suggestion. Anyhow, good luck.
65,363 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 10 34
I'm addicted to the fantasy series by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. (The Magic of Recluce series, The Songspell Cycle, and now 6 books in the Corean Chronicles.)
In the Corean Chronicles, he has a dragon-like creature, called a pteridon, A large winged creature that does not breath fire like a dragon but carries a rider with a fire lance weapon. The first 3 books of the series are from the "good guys" point of view, with the pteridon riders as the enemy and the other three books are written at an earlier time in the planet's history from the opposite POV. These creatures are guided by telepathy,
My point here is your creatures can be "dragons" as we know in our culture, or they could be similar to a dragon, and called something else. Perhaps they could have one or two traits that make them different enough from the traditonal dragonrider stereotype that you would not have the confusion you are concern about.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
55,172 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 10 57
It's obvious you have a wonderfully developed world which I adore in fantasy. I've decided that in working on my story to toss out all worries about what is and what isn't cliche as everyone writes from a different place and has a different voice.
Having said that, in answer to your question:
Could you call them something other than dragonriders? My immediate thought also is of the Dragonriders of Pern.
Are they exactly like "dragons" as commonly depicted in fantasy or do they have unique physical characteristics to set them apart? Would any other creature work in the place of dragons? I certainly would not attempt to steer you away from using dragons or dragons being ridden but would suggest some sort of new spin on this element.
Good luck!
50,038 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 11 12
I think your plot is unique enough that you shouldn't worry about it being a cliche. It will be the writing, plotting and characters that will drive your story, not the dragon riders themselves.
If you analyze most of the big fantasy series, you will see that there are common threads that run through each. It's the writing that keeps the stories fresh and different from each other.
I wouldn't stop working on it. :) I love Anne McCaffrey's Pern series. Your idea is intriguing enough that I probably wouldn't compare the two.
52,012 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 11 58
In reading your synopsis, I feel there is enough that is original and unique in your story that if you decided to rework the "dragonrider-trying-to-recapture-their-former-glory" plot you could avoid the inevitable negative comparisons to Dragon Riders of Pern and Eragon.
As irritating as it is, this theme is going to be viewed as a rip-off, even though you thought of it first because, unfortunately for you, you didn't publish it first.
My "grain of salt" advice would be to lose the dragonriders recapturing glory theme and "re-invent" .
112,245 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 12 33
Maybe you can try and play it from this angle: somewhere along the line, a dragon rider tarnished the reputation of the riders. Not necessarily by killing all the others, but maybe he went against some sort of code or made a really big mistake. Perhaps went up against a demon that really wasn't the big threat he was making it out to be. As a result, people look unfavourably on the order and the king or queen (if you have some sort of ruling body) disbands the order (which I personally would rename. Brotherhood of the Dragonriders seems a little too obvious and predicable) but such riders still exist. They would still endure the ridicule, and still fuel their desire to reclaim their glory.
55,172 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 12 41
I had already posted a few thoughts previously but Welestra has some great ideas. And this reminded me of the way the Templars were treated - they were maligned and persecuted due to the powers that be wanting to seize their wealth. What about something along the lines of "Grand Order of the Knights of the Sky" or something? Well, anyway, just my additional two cents worth ;)
15,089 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 13 07
Thank you for your advice everyone! I hadn't thought of how similar to Pern it was, other than "Oh, they both have dragons." Honestly I found the Pern series to be rather annoying so I went out of my way to make my dragonriders different from McCaffrey's, but I realize in retrospect that on the surface they still look rather similar.
I don't want to change too much in the history because as I said I'm writing this as allegory and I'm trying to keep it as true to what "really" happened as possible. Of course certain things are negotiable and there are going to be exaggerations no mater what I do, but you know ;) I really like the idea of making them something other than dragons. I am not married to the idea of dragons, they just have to be magical and sentient and able to fly, and they can't be gryphons because those are a wild non-sentient animal in my world. But I want to give them feathered wings, because feathered wings are kickass. And "brotherhood of the dragonriders" was something I made up on the spur of the moment, so I'll likely change that too. And maybe it won't be so much "Trying to recapture their former glory" as "Thrust against their will into recapturing their former glory." I don't even NEED it to be demons, either, but there just needs to be some purpose that the dragonriders served in the past, that they finished serving and fell into disarray, and now suddenly have to serve again. But the demons are the best I can think of right now...
Thanks again everyone for the advice :)
Oh, and if you can guess what this is based on, you get a cookie. I'll give you a hint that the demons are a HUGE abstraction, and that the girl summoning the demons in present day doesn't have much to do with reality except as a plot point. Its nothing so legendary or grandiose as the templars, and the timelines are extremely exaggerated. I don't know if anyone will actually get it, I'm just genuinely curious as to how obvious (or not) it is.
50,224 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 13 20
Humans are overdone! Novels should never contain humans! They're a massive cliche! :P
You know, I think I've gotten to the point where I think the idea of "cliches" and things that are "overdone" are a lot of bull crap. The problem isn't generally with things being "cliche", but with them being poorly written. You could take a storyline that could be described as the most cliche, trite, overdone thing ever, and still make it a good story. And you could take the most "original" idea in the world, and still make it a terrible story.
Why do we see the same elements appear in story after story? Because people enjoy reading about them. People _like_ the concept of dragon riders, of beautiful, pointy-eared elves, of powerful wizards with long, gray beards. You could make your dragon riders exactly like those in some other novel or series, and if you wrote a good and interesting story about it, nobody would really care (except possibly the other author's lawyers, and even they couldn't do anything about it if you changed the names and enough of the setting :P).
50,245 / 50,000
Dec 5, 2007 - 16 33
Why not try wyverns? They're dragon-like... but... I don't see many of them hanging around fantasy being all cliche... of course, could be I'm just not reading the right books....
50,472 / 50,000
Dec 6, 2007 - 02 39
Fact is, there are no new ideas. Everything's been done, and pretty much everything has been overdone.
What makes a story compelling to read isn't whether it hasn't been done before - it has been - but whether it's well written and has a fresh and interesting take on the story.
50,379 / 50,000
Dec 6, 2007 - 19 19
Or you could make the dragons ride around on the humans. The Fabulous HumanRiders! They sit around in these little leather backbacks like Yoda in "The Empire Strikes Back" and whisper stuff in the human's ear in broken English. Of course, they'd have to be really small dragons.
But if you are going to use DragonRiders, I only ask one thing. Please give the riders some cold weather gear. Don't send the poor schmucks into the upper troposphere wearing metal armor, and certainly don't send them up there dressed like that girl from "Heavy Metal." It just wouldn't be very nice. Let them wear something warm, and give them some nice goggles. And hats. Nice, warm hats with flaps that cover up their ears.
Don't worry about whether or not an idea has been done before. If we all did that, we'd be sitting around in garbage cans waiting around for the New Idea (Godot) who we hear so many good things about but never see. Don't wait for Godot! Write your story! Even if it has an elf, a dwarf, a halfling, a human, and a magic item that needs to be destroyed, write the darned thing! Whatever story you write, you're going to be compared to someone who made more money writing a similar story, so you might as well do it your way.
(But come on....you know that the Fabulous HumanRiders is a peach of an idea. And I'll give that one to you, for free. In fact, I hereby give this great idea, the Fabulous HumanRiders, to anyone who wants it. It is my gift to the world.)
50,379 / 50,000
Dec 6, 2007 - 19 24
A quick example of done before:
"Wizard's Hall" by Jane Yolen. It's about a boy with wild, unruly hair who doesn't fit in at home and wants to be come a wizard. So he goes to this wizard's school and meets a bunch of quirky faculty members, makes friends with some fellow students, and then proceeds to save the school, and as a result, the entire world, from this evil wizard who was defeated long ago but is now coming back to get revenge.
Ok, maybe that one hasn't beenharrypotterdone before. Except that Yolen's book actually came first...
75,201 / 50,000
Dec 6, 2007 - 23 53
My first thought was:
Dragonriders! hmmm... cool art on the covers of the Pern books! Yay for fantasy art!
My second thought was...
huh? I can't believe I bought all those books for the cover art! I hve yet to read one of them!
Than my thoughts turned too:
Eragon... great movie, I'll have to read the book someday.
Well, when it comes to dragons and dragonriders, I love them, however, every dragon/dragonrider book I've ever started to read, I put away before I reached the end of the first chapter. So, I've never actually read a dragonrider story, and can't say wither or not yours is cliche. Why have I never read one before? Well, I start reading and by the third or second page my mind goes:
Great idea, but bad story.
Great idea, but bad writing.
Great idea, but why the hell are the dragons talking?
Great idea, but why aren't the dragons eating people?
Great idea, but I just don't see dragons the same way.
In other words, I love the whole idea of dragons and dragonriders, I just don't like the way most writers handle them. For me, when I think dragon, I think: big, firebreathing, maneating, monster. Yet when I start reading these books, I am disapointed to find that the dragons are peaceful, talking, wish-granters or some other such lovey-dovey thing. In my mind, I think of dragons as being a lot like Jurrasic Park's T-rex: big, mean, ruthless, ready to fight, eating everything in sight, and acting like a... like an animal. Dragons are animals after all, big dino-type lizards to be exact, so why do writers always potray them as gentle loving and acting way to much like humans? I want to see some dragons that actualy act like dragons, not dragons that act like humans, but I've yet to find and writers who write their dragons like that.
So, I will continue to love dragons and buy dragon books for the cover art, and someday I hope to run across a book that has dragons that fit my notions of what I think dragons are like.
I wouldn't worry about cliches and such... just write from your heart and let your characters lead your story in the right direction. It's your story, so write it your way.
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0 / 50,000
Dec 7, 2007 - 06 08
Anne McCaffrey started writing Pern books in 1968. In terms of the genre, they're practically her institution, so anything involving dragonriders is going to have to work pretty hard from the get go to break out of the "Pern-wannabe" interpretation, even if that wasn't your intention at all.
But far more than that, I'd say the real cliché element of your book isn't the dragonriders, it's the Great War between Good and Evil, angels and demons, etc. I know it sounds cool and all, but that's the cliché that could sink the book if done badly, so I'd stop worrying about the dragons so much and focus your efforts on showing how your great war is different. I read your write up and I see:
Big battle between good and evil using demons and angels as foot soldiers (yawn). Dragon riders come in and save the day (perks up, adding dragons to the mix actually makes it more interesting). Dragon riders welcomed as heroes, then gradually fade into obscurity as the threat they vanquished is no longer around, also, they teleport. (DANGER! Direct Pern rip off. This is EXACTLY what happened to the dragon riders of Pern when the thread didn't fall. Also, your dragons jump between just like the Pern ones, we're getting dangerously close to a lawsuit, which WOULD be a reason for an instant rejection).
That last bit right there is where I'd stop reading. Even if you didn't mean it that way, I've already read the Pern books, if I want that plot, I'll read them again instead of buying your book.
Of course, you mention nothing of your actual STORY in this write up, I presume because you haven't finished it yet. But the only way you're going to get a reader over these cliché humps is to have characters so amazing, they make me forget I've seen this plot before. Of course, the best thing to do would be to knock out the clichés all together AND combine them with amazing characters. Why do they have to be dragon riders? Can't they ride giant kirin or hawks or maybe they ride giant dimension jumping badgers? Dragons aren't the only cool animals to ride. Maybe they ride something entirely new that can eat dragons for breakfast?
Anyway, it sounds like you're pretty well entrenched in this story, but if I were you, I'd just drop it and write something else. Not because it's a bad story, but because you've been knee deep in it for 8 years now. The chance is very slim that you'll be able to do something new and fresh with the world after so long. Rather than worry about whether or not your clichés will lead to instant rejection, just toss the story out and write something entirely your own.
15,089 / 50,000
Dec 7, 2007 - 08 31
Oh believe me, I've tried. But I feel that until I get this story written, everything else I write is going to seem forced and uninspired. I tried doing something entirely new for NaNo, I switched from fantasy to sci-fi and wrote whole new characters and a new universe, and I suppose my word count bar can attest to how well that went. When you've been working on anything for that long, it's hard to come up with something new that's as well developed. I do have a sci-fi universe that I like to play in, but that's evolved to the point of just being absurd and stupid, even if I have fun with it for my own enjoyment.
However I'm also surprisingly not attached to anything. It's extremely important to me that I have "Flying things that used to be uber but now suck but now have cause to become uber again" but everything else is up for negotiation. And the demons ... I'm not really sure how I feel about those to be honest. It's not so much that it's some great war between good and evil, as it is "crappy magical beasts that fly around and eat people and are notoriously hard to kill." The seraphim aren't much like the modern idea of angels, either, they're just magical beings similar to the demons except they can heal wounds and are immune to the demons' powers, but kind of suck at fighting. There *are* angelic beings in this universe, but they don't really come up in the story at all except in the context of the world's religion.
I've already decided that instead of dragons, I'd like to have wyverns. Two legged dragon looking things with furry manes and feathered wings. I may not end up calling them wyverns, but that's the name I'm using for the planning phases. See how not attached i am, haha. I've also come up with some nifty new ideas about the relationship between the wyverns and their humans. So I'm attached to the overall theme and characters of the story, but I really don't mind changing major aspects without blinking if I think it will make the story better.
And as for the teleportation thing -- and you will laugh at me for this I'm sure -- I really didn't connect that with copying Pern any more than any other dragonrider story, because my immediate thought was "Oh, well, *all* dragons can teleport, duh." The teleportation thing only really comes up as a plot point once, when some characters have to use magic to reach their planet's moon. This doesn't even come up in *this* story, it's just some thing in history that happened. The subject of teleportation doesn't even come up really in the novel, but I could probably change it even if it did, like maybe they found a portal or something. Also the magic of planeshifting is supposed to be long lost; no dragonriders alive no how to do it anymore.
As for what, inevitably, caused the dragonriders (wyvernriders, whatever) fall from grace, I feel like I'm backed into a corner here. If they defeated the demon lord and faded into obscurity, it will be like pern, but if I have them betrayed by some evil force of politics, then it's like Eragon. But they definitely have to be fallen from grace, or the story won't work. I suppose I'll end up having it be some combination of the two, and hope nobody notices, because they're not *exactly* dragons now.
Anyhow thanks for the advice, I'd blather on more, but it looks like it's time to leave for class.
112,245 / 50,000
Dec 7, 2007 - 09 17
Then have them suffer a disgrace. One rider a little wet-behind-the-ears, so to speak, makes a big mistake the whole group ends up paying for. It's not a fade into obscurity (although that may happen as a result, depending on how much time passed between the incident and now), and it's not a political thing. Just one young guy or girl who messed up.
51,442 / 50,000
Dec 7, 2007 - 10 03
I don't buy it. In large corporations people mess up all the time. Sometimes there small mistakes sometimes large but you never see the organization fall. It's only in the face of HUGE corruption on multiple levels that the beast emplodes. Enron anyone? The Templars fell from grace because they were starting to get too rich and too large so as to make the "ruling" powers see them as a threat. Which leads to politcal manuevering, spreading rumors, trying to infilitrate and destroy from the inside and eventually an all out war to crush them.
Whatever happened with the dragonriders would almost have to be political...Maybe it can be like Enron and emplode from the corruption. That's a lot of muck for the other dragonriders to dig themselves out of and try to rebuild their names. Alternatively, the organization got too big and "ruling" powers ordered it disbanded or broken into smaller groups that are then easier for infantry to take out.
What about poisoning the dragons so that they are unable to reproduce? Less dragons, less dragonriders. The poison could be natural or deliberate from someone trying to bring the dragonriders to an end. Maybe it is a reaction from the dragons themselves because they sense the inner corruption. Etc, etc.
Maybe a dragonrider led an attack on something (no one remembers what) but the legends describe it as an attack on "God" and the heavenly host or an attack on God's will. Seen as a direct attack on religion that failed it would certainly tarnish the dragonriders' reputation. (It may be my cynicism, but in my opinion the only use religion serves is condemning someone who holds different beliefs. It's a great reason to start a war, so I've been told.)
There are so many ways you can take this. Political. Religious. Social. Economical.
I live in my own little world, but it's okay....they know me there.
15,089 / 50,000
Dec 7, 2007 - 10 08
That's actually not a bad idea. I still want them to defeat the demon lord and have that contribute to their fall, but it doesn't have to be the sole thing. They could get arrogant and screw something up. Also there's a major war going on at the time between the Asani, who sponsor the dragonriders, and their rival nation of Kavaria, and the people are more interested in winning the war than supporting some dragonriders who don't do much anymore... But I think that some disgraceful action by one of their number could have a lot to do with it. They might have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids. *shakes fist*
And I mean wyvernriders. Damn it that's going to take some getting used to :D
55,473 / 50,000
Dec 8, 2007 - 00 21
Dragonriders are a bit common, indeed. What if the dragons were smaller though?
My novel contains no humans whatsoever -- all the characters walk on four legs.
103,148 / 50,000
Dec 9, 2007 - 13 14
I think that's exactly what happened in Pern as a plot point once. >< Sorry, I haven't read them in ages.
That said, when I see the word 'dragonrider' I think Pern. Dragonriders are way cool and can be done to be very non-Pern feeling and even the teleporting thing wouldn't throw me off. Dragonriders don't make me immediately think Eragon. It's just if the plot was anything like those two stories, I'd be thrown off. First, I'd suggest not calling them dragonriders. Come on, people who drive cars in our world aren't called carriders, right? You can be more or even less inventative and that takes you away from the stipulation of the worlds.
That said, it's not the dragonriders that make me roll my eyes, it's the whole cheesy history. If you created a good main character, a strong plot in a world that's obviously different from Pern and Eragon, I wouldn't bat an eye at teleporting dragons. Well, I might, but I'm not a hardcore Pern fan. So maybe others would. I do like the fallen leader protector guardian race people plot a bit... and if your story focused a lot on political intrigue and not coming-of-age or anything... it could be really good.
That said, I'd want to see a dragonrider urban fantasy story. Mmm... dragons + noir? That'd be sweet. (cough) But yeah, write it, even the most rehashed plot isn't dead in the water in the hands of a good writer who's willing to work around it...
57,563 / 50,000
Dec 10, 2007 - 17 51
Be careful, 'cause I believe Anne McCaffrey managed to trademark some of the ideas in her Pern books. Most of the authors that got away with the dragon riders actually have a connection to her or know her (Lackey and Modesitt both.)... investigate that to some extent before proceeding... or you can call up the McCaffrey estate to double check. She's still alive and kicking you know.
And I'm still sitting on one idea that hasn't been written yet. Muhaha. And I do read lots and lots of fantasy books.
15,089 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 08 57
Yeah well I guess I'd be lying if I claimed I wasn't influenced by Pern at least a little. Actually, a lot of the world building was done because my friends and I used to role play Pern on a message board but McCaffrey was all like "OH NOES FANFICTION IZ BAD" so we ended up creating our own worlds with dragonriders. I tried to make mine as different as possible, but I suppose the underlying influence will always be there. I like the idea of using some other creature besides dragons, but I'm having trouble designing something that's not dumb looking. Right now I'm working on a creature called an Aethereal, which is like a dragon, but not. Another thing I suck at is naming fictional species. Oh well, I'm sure I'll come up with *something.*
But as for the whole idea of people riding on dragons; I don't think that can be copyrighted. Lackey and Modesitt might be friends with McCaffrey but I highly doubt Paolini is, and he still gets away with it. Also I think Richard Rahl rides on a dragon in one of Goodkind's books, but I have no idea if he's friends with McCaffrey or not. But knowing her, it wouldn't be for a lack of trying *rolls eyes*
60,054 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 09 51
And I'm still sitting on one idea that hasn't been written yet. Muhaha. And I do read lots and lots of fantasy books.
Err... no. You can't trademark ideas. :) You can trademark phrases, words, and images. She has one trademark: Dragonriders of Pern. That's it.
She can't (and won't) sue you for having dragonriders, teleporting dragonriders, or even dragonriders that bond to their riders, teleport, and breathe fire. Heck, you can even make them genetically engineered. You can be prosecuted when your ideas are so close to the original that it's clearly copying, but no one can sue for general ideas. Even Rowling can't sue if you write a book about a boy who goes to a wizard's school, is orphaned, and saves the word from an evil wizard. Probably won't be able to sell it, but she can't sue you for it.
Well, unless you name him Larry Potter. Then you might have problems.
Once you start crossing over into the territory of clear fanfic... Anne still doesn't care, as long as you're not trying to profit.
15,089 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 14 36
Once you start crossing over into the territory of clear fanfic... Anne still doesn't care, as long as you're not trying to profit.
Yep but that's a fairly new development ... back when we used to Pern roleplay, in 2001 or so, one of my friends actually got a cease and desist letter from her lawyers, and another friend of mine got her site entirely taken down. We spent months trying to come up with a new world we could play in, and eventually decided to just use a whole bunch of different worlds and have different species of dragons that could teleport between them. Cyrna (where Wyvern's Song takes place) was mine, but it had already been in development long before that. And it's continuing to be developed; Cyrna now is nothing like the Cyrna I used to dragonrider role play in. But yes, as I said in an earlier post, if I claimed not to have been influenced by Pern, that would be a big fat lie :P Nevertheless, I'd like to be as un-Pern-like as possible, so I'm really appreciating all of your suggestions :)
60,054 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 16 39
Oh trust me, I'm well aware of her previous restrictions. I was BoD on an approved off-line PBeM club for ten years. The restriction lift happened a couple of years ago, I think. She was a little too aggressive in pursuing violations for a while there, and managed to stir up a lot of ill will. A lot of that was her son, though.
Fortunately, things are much more relaxed now.
50,243 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 16 55
Oh, I'd heard about his bit. Wasn't she one of a few authors that've been a bit harsh on fanfic writers, roleplayers, etc? I know there's a sort of agreement page, or was, on fanfiction.net stating which authors don't allow any fanfics whatsoever.
60,054 / 50,000
Dec 11, 2007 - 23 12
Well, she never completely banned it to the point of chasing down people who were writing it, but anything posted online was pursued aggressively. She actually spawned a movement of people who were apparently so traumatized by the C&Ds they received that they started a support group. I think they were overreacting, but hey.
Her son was actually the primary instigator of most of that. She's a writer, not a lawyer, and spent her time with her family and her writing. It was her oldest son who did most of the website maintenance and contact with fandom, and he's about as tactful as a bull in a china shop. The main reason for the no online fanfic wasn't that she had a problem with it (quite the contrary, she was supportive in the early days, and quite a few online games were grandfathered in and allowed to continue running) it was that the online gaming rights had been sold, and she was defending them vigorously to protect her potential income (which should have been the job of the company who bought the rights, but that's neither here nor there.)
For a long time, she did run an approval process, wherein offline clubs could apply for an official stamp of approval and permission to maintain a site to coordinate offline activities (play by emails were included under this umbrella).
She actually has had a good attitude about fanfic, but unfortunate management decisions by her son gave her a nastier reputation than she really deserved.
He's no longer in charge of anything ,and in fact her younger son is the one who is doing the continuing Pern novels now. Thanks to a change in the rights, she was no longer required to prevent online fanfic, so now she has given it blanket permission, provided no profit is involved, and certain guidelines are followed.
51,949 / 50,000
Dec 12, 2007 - 11 21
You seem to like the idea of dragons, but if you think that dragons should be nasty man-eating beasts... that's sort of counter to the idea of a person riding on them. After all, I might ride a horse, but I'm not about to climb on the back of something that might eat me and say, "Get up."
@OP: I like the idea of Wyverns instead of dragons. Maybe, instead of calling them dragonriders or anything similar, you could call them Sentinels or Guardians or something along those lines.