Help me with this plot!

Have you ever read The Heart is a Lonely Hunter? I bring up this book only because it's currently required reading for me, but it tells the story of a bunch of people who meet a deaf-mute man. Of course, he is able to interact with them, and the story is pretty based around their idol-worship of this man who they don't even know (he hardly ever writes them notes as to what he is thinking, and only smiles while they talk to him), but the way the characters are interconnected through this man could be sort of how you are thinking. The ceiling could interconnect the stories of however many characters, and I think that this is the best possible way to tell the story. The view from above, so to speak.

As for the hospital versus asylum, I sort of like the idea of a hospital ceiling better. There would be more visitors in the actual room itself, and you could incorporate characters with a variety of different situations by having the hospital expanded and the ward converted to house a different group of patients. While reading about asylums is always interesting, I think it's a little more done.

I remember another thread where you mentioned the idea of writing from the POV of a ceiling (and I said I liked it in the other thread!)

Coming up with a plot all by yourself is hard and can be really frustrating...

I really like your idea of having it from the POV of the ceiling, it's very original so I want to try to help you out (although I'm not a genius at coming up with my own plots, and often post threads asking for help just like you did :) thank you Nanowrimo hehe)

Maybe you could have something only the ceiling (and the reader) knows about groups of people in the hospital (assuming it's a hospital). Have a ton of the people in the hospital interconnected - the staff, patients, visitors - in either small incidents in the past, or large obvious ways. The plot can be the ceiling slowly learning the truth behind everything. The people could have intricate pasts that they're trying to hide, yet are linked to other people in the hospital that were less involved in said past. Because the ceiling and the reader know part of the truth before the other characters do, this could create tension (like if we know that one of the doctors was a murderer and he went into a child's room with a sringe, the ceiling would be scared for the child's life).

I think you should develop intricate pasts for the characters in the hospital where they're all interconnected, but ultimately all end up in the hospital either as a visitor, patient, or staff. Then from there you can come up with the plot from the ceiling where he's watching after they've all gathered under one roof.

If you want, you can post again and we can bounce ideas off of each other.

:O!!!

KarenChii, that's brilliant!!! *Bows deeply* THANKS!!!
The thing is, there's one chink in this ceiling thing that I'm not certain of. Is the ceiling looking down only on ONE fixed part? Cuz then it'd be kind of hard for it to know a lot of things. But if its point of view moves around, that'd be kind of strange. I got comments on a really really rough first chapter that I'm now totally discarding in favour of your idea :) and they said it could be like holes or craacks in the ceiling that see different places? But then how would I describe the moving from place to place? "Now to the crack on the thirty-seventh tile on the far left of the ceiling....." is just no.

The ceiling could be very old and therefore have accumulated information about the people there without moving TOO much. But that's hard still, if it's only focusing on one part of one room.

Oh yeah. I really don't know WHICH room. A patient's room? Or the staff room? (I know SOMEONE's gonna be thinking "washroom" so right now I'm killing that option. No.) Or the front hall? Ugh.

Anyways, any more ideas will be loved!

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

The way I envisioned it being is that the ceiling sees EVERYTHING all at once, like god. You could think of it maybe like you're in a room full of people and you COULD hear everybody if you focus on them, but most likely you'd listen to one person at a time. However an interesting word, scream, or a name you recognize would cause your attention to be redirected. I don't think the ceiling should move since a ceiling doesn't move, but it's *attention* can move. The ceiling could be watching a room, and then hear a scream from another room that it's semi paying attention to, and redirect its attention there to discover a murder just took place or something like that. That's a good way because then the ceiling only narrates the most interesting and relevant things that are happening all over the hospital.

I don't like the idea of it's POV coming from the cracks... I think it would work for its attention to move from room to room, just like any person would move from scene to scene in a regular novel. The ceiling's attention is in one room, then have a few lines of white space, and have a character from a different room say something and then make it clear that the ceiling is now interested in what's going on in room ### or with characters ___.

As for which room, I think he has the ability to watch every room that has the same type of ceiling. Maybe there could be a few small rooms that have a different kind of ceiling, in case you want something cool and secret to happen that the ceiling and reader totally misses and finds out later (like murders or important conversations that the ceiling probably wouldn't miss if it was under his roof).

Is the ceiling just for one floor, or is it a single consciousness for every floor in the hospital?

Hmmmmm. I think it'd be better if it was a single consciousness for every floor. I think I'll keep all the ceiling types the same--don't want enemity between the ceilings, now do we?

So would it be like:

"Dr A is checking up on Patient Z. (elaborate) Now he's leaving the room--

what was that? It came from room 123. Let's see.. Ah, here it is...."

or something? Do you think it makes sense for the ceiling to use first person? Like "do you hear that?" or "let's go there?" Maybe it's awfully lonely and is talking to itself?

Thanks again!!!!!!

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

Or it could be the cieling of a hotel or an apartment building or of an estate house where you follow the travails of a family for generations.

But that POV is a good schtick - I hope you have fun with it - it sounds interesting.

"To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it." - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. (1922-2007)

2006 - Famine: A Novel - failed
2007 - A Midsummer Night's Dream...IN SPACE! - on hold

I think first person would be ok, but the way you're using it with "do you hear that?" and "let's go there" it sounds like the ceiling is talking to someone (the reader I'm assuming) - that's breaking the 4th wall (when you talking to the audience) and I don't think that works well.

The ceiling can certainly think a lot, but I don't think it should act like it's talking to someone or with others. He's a ceiling, so he's pretty much alone in this world. I guess he could pick a character and pretend to talk to him/her, obviously not expecting an answer, but just to have someone to "talk" to.

I also kind of like the idea said above about it being the ceiling of a hotel or something if you're feeling that. A hotel might be fun because people usually don't stay for more than a few days and you'd get new people anytime you wanted. They could all connect in a similar way as the hospital. I think the hospital has more room for flexibility since anyone can end up there and sometimes people HAVE to go there unlike an apartment or a hotel room. A hospital visit isn't planned (unless it's surgery) so that makes it feel like all the characters ended up there by fate or something. I don't know, I personally like the hospital setting the best.

truthfully, me too. So we've got most of the basics?

Takes place in a hospital
Something to do with the intricate pasts of many characters
Told by a ceiling.

now, of course, I only have to figure out the plot...... XD

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

lol, nice. Are you thinking along the lines of a murder mystery? Or a mystery of any type? Or a horror? Or--it's a hospital, right?--some patient had a crash and lost his/her memory and one of the doctors is actually somehow related to the patient? Ah, I don't know. Or are you thinking a parody-like story?

I really don't know. I haven't written satire, horror, or mystery before and am equally willing to try them. I'm not sure which would suit this best, though. I've never really thought of it as a humourous story. The memory loss thing sounds intriguing though....but wouldn't that mean the doctor would have to A) not recognize the patient (memory loss as well?!) or B) pretend not to know the patient.....and maybe not want to operate on him/her or something??

KarenChii-----save meee!!!!!

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

I think that horror, mystery, or a story with memory loss (whatever genre that is) would work. I think that you should pick one of those that you like the best, because the novel will come a lot easier if you enjoy writing it.

I personally think that horror or mystery would be the most fun (but keep in mind, that's just me and I'm not writing it). I think memory loss might be hard, but you seem to like that idea, so you've probably got some ideas or you will. You could have a horror or mystery story AND memory loss (which could account for part of the mystery). You could also have a mixture of all three. Murders and secrets and identity loss all mixed into one plot.

I don't want to come up with the entire plot for you, so here's your homework: Decide on the KIND of plot you want, and then come up with interesting life stories for a few important characters. That can be hard, but not as hard as coming up with plot.

Who do you want the characters to be? I think that there should be at least 1 staff main character: nurse, doctor, surgeon, etc - and decide how long they've each been working there. More than 1 patient: maybe one that's been there a long time, perhaps even CAUSED by another character for some reason (perhaps a visitor we meet later on), another who just got there as a recent victim of a character - maybe the two patients talk to each other because they know that their injuries/sickness's weren't accidents and were caused by whoever. There should also be at least one visitor: he/she can come in at any time or visit as many times as you'd like. You could have multiple visitors that come in at different points in the novel that bring a new and interesting twist to the story. Now decide on your characters and develop their pasts and personalities. Just write down what you traits you feel they are - perhaps the surgeon has a bad past so he's prone to impulsive behavior, or a visitor is someone that got away with murder and is trying to conceal his identity and lay low (but he just can't stay away from one of the long term patients that survived his attempt for some reason) so he would be the type of person who likes to live on the edge of being caught or found out. Maybe one scene can be the surgeon that realizes that his patient (who is lying there about to be operated on) is the only person who can reveal his awful past. Does he botch the operation and kill the patient, but no one blames him because he's a surgeon and the operation just didn't go well?

If you don't like my ideas for characters, you don't have to use them, but if you're stuck, those are my suggestions :)

Take your ideas and run with them!!!!!!!! Good luck :)

thanks so much for your help!!!!!!

Just one more question (for now XD). To what extent should the ceiling FEEL? Like, obviously it has to have curiosity, or the story wouldn't happen. But should it relate to the humans? If not, it'd provide an unbiased, roving camera sort of POV. What do you think? Does it make sense for the ceiling to be apathetic towards all the humans (a different species, after all!) and yet extremely curious about them?

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

I'm sorry I haven't responded in quite a few days - I just started an internship at a software company and it's been sucking up my whole day every day, but I'm learning a lot :)

I think that the ceiling should definitely be able to feel, or it would make for a pretty boring story I think. Ever since the ceiling was built, it's been watching humans, so they're not entirely foreign to the ceiling.

But the ceiling wasn't inside their heads. Maybe you could think of it like the ceiling is a person with a mental disorder like aspergers or autism or another social disorder where people have trouble relating to and understanding other people. I don't think the ceiling should be emotionless like a robot, but I do think it should think differently and have trouble understanding why the humans do what they do (he might even wonder why they come here every day and take care of people, perhaps not understanding that they need money to live, or maybe he even thinks that humans are incredibly giving and nurturing). You have to think about how the ceiling would view the world based on what he knows. To him, his whole world is a hospital, and to him, things that happen outside of the hospital don't exist (unless people talk about them, in which case the ceiling would likely be very curious and wonder about those things... maybe he thinks about what's outside and where the people go after they leave, I don't know). I think the ceiling maybe should have trouble understanding why the humans do what they do, and why they react how they do. If humans are crying, I think the ceiling would be sad, but may not really understand why. The ceiling's not even alive - can he even really comprehend death? Maybe he thinks about it like how he fears the day they demolish the building (something he's heard the humans talk about, the humans say an offhanded comment about another building going down or something).

So, yes, I think the ceiling should have a complex mind and have thoughts and feeling like us, but still be very different. Like an alien that's had an entirely different life and way of looking at the world.

How are the characters, their background, and any more possible plot ideas coming? Are your characters starting to become more fleshed out?

*shakes head* I just realized something. The ceiling is also an important character! I completely forgot about that. The ceiling's past would consist of things he's heard over the years, and things that he's seen in the hospital that affects how he thinks now. And the ceiling will have a personality (something I've always had trouble truly fleshing out, I usually just start writing and the personalities sort of emerge as I go). If you pay attention to how the ceiling thinks, that pretty much fleshes that out.

Here's a question. Are the ceilings of different rooms all one ceiling? Like, would this be the ceiling of the 3rd floor nurses station, or the ceiling of the 3rd floor? If you wanted it to be more localized, you would have to make sure it would be a ceiling who would witness a lot of different things/people/events. Like, for example, it could be the ceiling of the staff room, and hear bits and pieces of everybody's lives and business, but feel frustrated because he or she can't move around as the humans do to find out the rest of the stories, and must wait for someone to come into his or her room and mention something. Another source of frustration for a ceiling could be the floor's lack of interest in the fascinating lives of the people in the hospital.

I'm SORRY, I've been away for a few days. But now I'm back. It's all good.

To lucystardust: I guess the ceiling would be the same. It's not like each room has a DIFFERENT ceiling---although...then, there could be the possibility of a network of ceilings? Does that sound at all plausible?

THATS HILARIOUS, Yes, that's so happening. But would the ceiling and the floor be able to communicate? (I don't blame the floor. Being constantly stepped and spilled on wouldn't make me very partial to the human race..,)

So I guess now it's 1) Will there be many ceilings that all communicate? and 2) Will the floor be part of this?

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

Hmm. You said before you wanted to try a horror story. In my opinion, it could too easily turn into somewhat of a comedy if you had this network of ceilings and vendetta between ceilings and floors. It's much better for a horror setting if the ceiling is alone. But I admit, it is funny, and it doesnt have to be hardcore horror all the way through...

For number one, have you ever heard of a porteguese man-of-war? It's a unique thing that lives on the surface of the sea. It ressembles an island, except it has tentacles on the bottom of it that stun passing fish and then eat them. The reason I'm bringing it up is that if you wanted, you could have all of the ceilings be seperate entities but part of a whole. Kind of like how a human has arms and legs and fingers and toes, but they all belong to the same body. An arm communicates with the brain - if you cut yourself, it sends information to your brain letting you know that you did. So you could have the numerous ceilings all sort of be like connected, but distant at the same time.

For number two, if the floor is a part of it, why not the walls as well? Maybe the walls are the ones who are constantly passing information between the ceiling and the floor? That way, you could even have the ceiling be partial to things outside, since the walls could face outwards as well.

You could also use the theory that the floor and the ceiling are like siamese twins, who are forever connected because they're essentially back-to-back.

NaNo 2006 = Cloudburst = 14k
NaNo 2007 = Redeeming Pandora's Curse - WINNER
NaNo 2008 = The Elemental Chronicles: Earth

My Writing Blog: Illuminated Words

I think vespers-4-ray and Sailor_Chibi both have good points.

It will probably be funner to write though if there are more inanimate characters. It could be like everything "dead" in the hospital is actually alive. Walls, ceilings, floors, sinks, doors, etc etc. I don't think I'll go as far as equipment though (needles scissors etc). However, I don't know how I could transition that way. Like the ceilings being somehow all connected--how would I portray that? ("Oh hello, Ceiling 245. How are you?" "Fine, Ceiling 300. And you?" --__--. As you can see, I need some help)

About vespers-4-ray's horror point, I think it could still work if it was told in a lighter way if the story itself was incredibly horrifying.

Agh. Help still needed XD

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

Well, when your arm sends information to your mind, you don't go, "Oh, okay arm, thanks for letting me know I cut myself." I was thinking more like all of the ceilings are eyes for the first ceiling built in the hospital. Like, the first ceiling could be the emergency room or something, but it can "see" what all of the other ceilings see. If you wanted, you could also throw in the point that while the first ceiling can see what all ceilings see, the second ceiling can't see what the third ceiling sees, so the first ceiling can only focus on one area at a time. Like, while the ceiling can see through all these ceilings in all of the rooms, it can only see through one at a time. So you could say, "Suddenly, I percieved panic in room 220. I quickly left the room I had been watching and switched my attention to see what was happening."

As for the horror setting, there were mentions that the ceiling wouldn't understand things from a human point of view. So you could lighten up on the horror in that way, while still having it BE horror. A ceiling wouldn't really understand murder the way we do. I think that could help to distinguish the non-humanness of the ceiling.

NaNo 2006 = Cloudburst = 14k
NaNo 2007 = Redeeming Pandora's Curse - WINNER
NaNo 2008 = The Elemental Chronicles: Earth

My Writing Blog: Illuminated Words

Hmmm. Has anyone read An Adoration, by Nancy Huston? (It's an awesome book)

If I do decide to do the whole network of inanimate objects thing, the format of An Adoration would be perfect. I could go like this:

CEILING: So how's the weather?
WALL: Ugh. RAIN.
FLOOR: You don't say! I'm the one who has to suffer the squishy muddy soggy footwear.....

or something.

Is KarenChii out there?!

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7

hehe, I've been reading what people have been posting, but I haven't had any new ideas. If you have any questions I'll be happy to give you my opinion.

I'm not sure about the walls being able to see outside - I think there's a big difference between the indoor walls and the exterior of the building. Personally I think the ceiling should be able to see out the windows. If he can see the inside of the room, he can probably look out the window.

Would the ceiling be able to talk to the floor? Would it be telepathic? That might get boring - I mean how many times can the floor comment on how people are walking all over him. To me, the floor seems like a character that would be too much like the ceiling, and not necessary. Personally I like the idea of the main character (the ceiling) being an onlooker and not being able to talk to anyone else - just think, and witness the real story that is the humans, and give his take on what exactly is going on.

Have you come up with any human characters to put in the hospital?

Oh yes. The HUMANS. Forgot about those. XD

Know what, I think I will go with the solitary ceiling that is omniscient. Having many communicating ceilings/walls/floors will just totally slow the story down. (I overwrite pointless dialogue. A lot)

"This is a mutiny, not a chat. We are forming treason, not spreading gossip. Do you understand?"
--Dipped In Violet, Chapter 7