How many POVs are too much?

emmica
How many POVs are too much?

0 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Nov 3, 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 13
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 12 32

As the subject says, where do the number of character POVs become too much to handle, as a reader/writer?

I've been pondering this, because my story moves between a lot of characters, and while it's all 3rd person, each POV is still limited to what that particular character is experiencing. I'm wondering how you can smoothly show which character's viewpoint is currently being narrated, and where to draw the line of how many characters will be allowed to speak.

My story spans a couple of years and not every character will be voiced for each time period -- I'm thinking it's around two or three characters per period, but I'm still worried.

So, Nanoers! How are you doing it, and what are your thoughts upon this matter?
----------
Every morning I awake to freedom, softness and enjoyment: sleep much, read little, and put down the thought of volatile renown. Was it not in such sweet employment, such shadowy and leisured ways, that once I spent my happiest days?

Gail_VanWinkle

13,222 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 5, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 62
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 13 05

Last year, I switched POVs around three characters, each of them having their turn for a chapter. I think the transition goes smoother when you have a pattern for switching.

It does cause some confusion, I guess, bit it's all about your style and your writing talent. And it's often easier to write with multiple close perspective instead of from a distant, omniscient view. Really, they're two different POVs in my opinion.

Anyway, I think you should go for whatever fits your story.

----------

http://i37.tinypic.com/fdvrrb.jpg

S M Sargent
Winner!
50,040 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Nov 2, 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 121
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 13 20

After three the PoVs start to become quite weighty, in my opinion. Dune is the only book I know that has lots of PoV characters, but even though it was very well written I found it difficult to keep up with everything.

----------

Venison '05: Lost
The Parker Project '06: Won!
Blood on the Gas Lamps '08: Future winner?

DragonchildeGlowing Halo
Winner!
50,091 / 50,000
Staff
Joined: Nov 3, 2002
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 2577
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 14 35

If you need a database to track them, there's probably too many. :)

----------

--
Heather Dudley
Forums Moderator - Broke? You can still donate!
Couldn't verify your winning novel? Contact the general hotline for help.

keolah
Winner!
96,868 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 5, 2003
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 521
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 14 43

I could not give you an exact number on just how many is too many, but one thing I can tell you is that that's "less than the number of POV characters in the Wheel of Time series." When you start having "major" characters with all of two chapters to themselves in the entire novel, you know something is wrong here.

----------

Title: Breaking Light
Goal: Finishing this novel. (Probably be 100k-120k at this rate.)
Sanity level: Do you even need to ask?

Cacrocks1Glowing Halo
Winner!
50,040 / 50,000
Municipal Liaison
Joined: Okt 17, 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 105
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 15 45

A lot of characters can also be done quite well - George R.R. Martin is a oft-sited example of well done multiple MCs with rotating viewpoints (probably up to about 10 now with a few specific main ones? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a couple of months since the last one and I haven't caught up yet!)

----------

2007: Won, Choices
2006 : Won, Adventure of Epic Proportions
2004: Won, Treading the Right Path
2003: Lost

Honorary Member of the Lancs. & Cumbria Region
Mod of Writing 101, This is Going Better... & Virtual Worlds

piraterieGlowing Halo
Winner!
50,002 / 50,000
Municipal Liaison
Joined: Okt 3, 2005
Location: Tri-Cities, Washington
Posts: 145
Posted on:
Okt 14, 2008 - 17 59

My first NaNo I had at least 8 POVs going on, and it was ridiculous. The most I've had since then was 4, and that worked well for that story. I used 3rd person limited in both cases. I think my problem with the first NaNo was that there wasn't really the need for so many POVs, not necessarily that I was trying to use that many. I had different groups of people who eventually came together, and I should have just stuck with one POV character for each group instead of giving everyone their own POV. It was just confusing, especially as the POV was, like, constantly changing. When I did the 4, the POV alternated each chapter. The characters all started out in different places, and by the time they finally came together, their voices were distinct enough that it was immediately clear whose POV we were on. I generally like 2 or 3 for a book, although I think I'm going to be stuck with just 1 for this year's novel.

I don't usually like reading a ton of different POVs in one book, but if each voice is distinctive enough, and if they don't switch around all the time, then it's fine to have a quite a few going on.

----------

This is how you do it: you sit down at the keyboard and you put one word after another until it's done. It's that easy, and that hard. - Neil Gaiman

junkfoodmonkey
Winner!
114,200 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 1, 2006
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 635
Posted on:
Okt 15, 2008 - 00 31

I think it can frustrate the reader, because they might feel they never get to know one person particularly well.

I had lots of characters in my NaNo last year, but I tried to keep the POV focused on a small number of them. It helped that some of them had good reasons for me not to go into their POV much. Like the hero's sidekick had a secret agenda that I didn't want the reader to get more than hints about, so even though she was a really important character she didn't get a lot of POV scenes until late in the book once the secret was out.

I often have a rule for certain characters, the main ones obviously. If this person is in a scene, they get the point of view unless theres a very good reason otherwise. Of course if I have several of those people in one scene, then I have to decide who gets precendence.

Also just how deep you get into someones thoughts while they have the Point of View can be important. If it's your main character, the reader wants to know loads about them. If it's a major but not main character they'll want enough to make that character come to life, so they can understand them, but don't spend too long on their inner life. ON the other hand a minor character who needs to carry the POV for a scene just because none of the main or major characters are there, only needs to have a shallow look into their inner life. We don't need their backstory in detail, we need just enough for the scene to make sense.

Last year, even though I had a lot of characters and several sub-plots and quite a few scenes that the main character wasn't in - I made sure I gave her the POV for almost every scene she was in. This made sure that her POV dominated and she deserved the label of 'main character'. :D I should go check how many scenes she's in and doesn't have the POV. I suspect I'll only need one hand to count 'em on.

emmica

0 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Nov 3, 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 13
Posted on:
Okt 15, 2008 - 02 11

Thanks for the input, everyone, it's been very interesting to read! :D

I have about five characters that the story revolves around, but one of them will only have her POV revealed through a journal that one of the other characters finds and reads. I'm also thinking about cutting out another of the characters, at least for the moment, as I'm having difficulties finding his particular voice, so to speak. Maybe I'll find some other way to convey him.

So, tenatively, there will be two POVs in the first time period and two in the second, with two (my gosh, the variations, they are boggling the mind!) wrapping up the story in the third period.

But still, keep on sharing, and November is still not here yet.

----------

Every morning I awake to freedom, softness and enjoyment: sleep much, read little, and put down the thought of volatile renown. Was it not in such sweet employment, such shadowy and leisured ways, that once I spent my happiest days?

SilentSolace

7,544 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 5, 2007
Location: Genoa City
Posts: 10
Posted on:
Okt 16, 2008 - 17 38

I had two POV's for my novel last year, switching every chapter. It really helped because when I ran out of things to say for one character, I just switched to the other, and he could carry on the plot.

tomdg
Winner!
64,622 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Nov 17, 2004
Location: Leamington, Warwickshire, UK
Posts: 140
Posted on:
Okt 16, 2008 - 22 37

Personally I'd say one is best, but that doesn't necessarily mean any more is too many.

Nick Hornby's A Long Way Down uses four, because it has very specific reasons for doing so. I think a lot of romance novels use two, but then some really good novels of that type use one so it can definitely be done.

I'm struggling right now because I think my story this year needs two POVs, but I'm not comfortable with the mechanic of how that works. I used a single POV in 2 or 3 of my 4 nanos and I find it works really well. The other year I experimented with writing my POV as if I were a camera - so no internal thoughts, and I could come into the room with one character but stay there with the other characters when he left. It was interesting (and good discipline making myself write without any internal character thoughts whatsoever) but I think people found it confusing because it's not what they're used to. I realized a while after I'd finished that really I'd written a screenplay in novel format ... My current thought is I'll just put a line break between paragraphs when the POV changes and make sure each section starts with something about the POV character for that section. But I'm still not sure if I'm just doing it wrong having two POVs. I can't think of any "literary" books I've read which have used more than one. Maybe I should try reading Dickens ...

----------

Tom

I think therefore I am pretentious.

chibisarel
Winner!
54,698 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 18, 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 33
Posted on:
Okt 16, 2008 - 23 24

I have one main narrator, using first-person. But then now and then I pop in third-person narratives from someone else's POV. To me it seems to work fairly well, but I don't know if it would be confusing to someone else =)

----------

"Make love, not war; condoms are cheaper than guns."

"...and it's not the artificial chocolate that makes the man."
(I misread "official accolade")

Infinity-NevermoreGlowing Halo
Winner!
50,186 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 35
Posted on:
Okt 17, 2008 - 09 58

I have... wait, let me count... five main character POVs, one minor character POV and in one chapter I switch to ghostwriter (meaning no particular POV, more like someone in the room, watching what's going on and talking as they see it). I have my reasons though. Since the entire novel will be third person limited, and there are things happening all over the place, and much of the novel is introspective, I have to let each character tell their part of the story, especially since very few things are known by all.

----------

"The man who has no imagination has no wings."
-Muhammad Ali

larelmian
Winner!
50,114 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 25, 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1001
Posted on:
Okt 17, 2008 - 14 35

If you're in the double digets, you may be pushing too many. That doesn't mean you can't go into the double digets. It's just then we'd stop caring about all these people or not get to know them as well as we would if we were inside one person's head. But then, I've only read one author with too many viewpoint characters (where I actually had no idea who this person was when I read it and what it had to do with everything else), and he's already been mentioned.

----------

"Be nice to the imaginary people. Don't kill too many." -- e-mail from my youngest sister, June 23, 2008

Absinthe_

23,318 / 50,000
Official Participant
Joined: Okt 10, 2007
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 40
Posted on:
Okt 17, 2008 - 17 14

I think that if you go above four or five POVs, stick to the main characters and use the others as extra POVs, using them sparingly and only when you want to inject the plot with some intrigue and hook your reader in more.

I know the author Phillippa Gregory does they excellently in her novels. :)

----------

NaNo '07: A Zombie Story (50k+, unfinished)
NaNo '08: Undecided

Start :: Info :: Auteurs :: My NaNoWriMo :: FAQs :: Fun Stuff :: Donaties/Winkel :: Forums :: Onze Programma's
Privacy Beleid :: Privacy Policy :: Voorwaarden :: Retourzendingen :: Terms and Conditions :: Codes of Conduct :: Returns Policy

Copyright © 2008 The Office of Letters and Light :: All posted novel excerpts remain copyright their authors.
Powered by Drupal