I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, but... I'm on Twitter and a lot of us have these "twibbons" added to our profile pictures to show that we're participating in NaNoWriMo (see here http://twibbon.com/cause/NaNoWriMo-3/Join). But then someone mentioned today that the twibbons are a trademark violation, I guess an unauthorized use of the NaNo logo.
So, is that true? Does NaNoWriMo frown upon the use of its logo in this manner? Should I take it off my avatar?
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Marcy
http://mightymarce.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/mightymarce
49,224 / 50,000
Okt 29, 2009 - 21 41
I've pointed this out to HQ. It doesn't look like something that HQ set up, so my guess is that it IS a violation. There are guidelines about trademark buried on the site; here's the relevant info:
Websites: Participants may not use “NaNoWriMo” or “National Novel Writing Month" in the URL or name of a website, and they may not use the logo. They can refer to the event, of course, link to www.nanowrimo.org or your regional forum, and use the web badges. This includes Facebook, MySpace, and other groups on social networking sites.
If this twibbon was set up by someone other than NaNoWriMo HQ, my guess is that they'll be asked to take it down. I don't know if these twibbons modify a user's icon or just overlay it, so you might not have to do anything at all.
Anyway, when I hear back from HQ, I'll post it here.
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
49,224 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 08 02
HQ has confirmed that the nanowrimo twibbon IS a trademark violation. They are working with twitter to have it removed. In the meantime, if you are using this twibbon, please remove it from your user pic.
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
35,837 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 09 13
Can HQ supply a legitimate Twibbon, then? It's been great publicity for NaNoWriMo.
----------34,353 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 09 14
Agreed. I'd love to have one for my account. :)
----------OH MAA GAA NANO COOKBOOK
0 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 10 24
Wow. Really? Quite honestly, that's kind of lame.
35,280 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 10 39
So is that to say that all 3 versions of the NaNoWriMo Twibbon are trademark violations?
I'm not exactly sure if I agree with this. I don't see how it is hurting anyone to show support for such a good cause by adding this sort of thing to your profile on social networking sites. If anything, it is increasing awareness among circles who might not be aware of NaNo or what it is.
If they are going to have this banned because it is a trademark violations, I would like to see them offer an alternative.
37,258 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 11 19
It's a trademark violation because the trademark image, which represents NaNo and the OLL, is being used by someone other than the OLL, and the OLL has no control over how that image is being used. Say your Twitter icon/profile pic shows a naked person, and it has the NaNo twibbon on it. Now NaNo and the Office of Letters and Light are being represented by/with pornography.
Sure, it's not likely, but it's possible. NaNo provides the badges to separate what represents a participant, and what represents the organization. I have only seen one version of the NaNo twibbon, with the NaNo shield on ie; if there were a twibbon with the badge instead of the NaNo shield, that probably would be OK.
Notice no official word has come from HQ about this -- the conversation on the ML forum has been mostly by MLs, not OLL staff. My guess is that they are looking for a way to make this work out. The twibbons are a great idea, they help you find other Wrimos on Twitter, etc. I'm guessing the OLL just wants to make sure its image is not being used incorrectly or inappropriately, and there is no way to control who puts that twibbon on hir profile pic.
:) Criss.
----------Criss, la Reina
DFW co-ML
www.twitter.com/CrissLCox
http://blog.crisswrites.com
35,280 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 11 40
I don't think they would be able to control who puts a twibbon on their profile pic even it came from HQ. There are too many outside factors to consider, and it wouldn't take much for someone who really wanted to abuse the system to abuse it. That being said, I doubt that pornography is really something that HQ has to worry about.
If you go to the the Twibbon site and search "NaNo" several options now come up. I believe one of them incorporates the participant badge, and I guess I'll change my Twibbon accordingly until it is announced otherwise.
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Okt 30, 2009 - 13 24
I don't mean to be contrary, but I'm curious what OLL is prepared to do to the people who refuse. (For what it's worth, it really is just curiosity - I'm not using the twibbon and have no intention to start.)
33,152 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 13 27
For the record, OLL isn't going to do anything to people who refuse, but they are trying to get it removed from the twibbon app to begin with.
----------Why would they even consider doing anything to a nanowrimo participant.... really?!
My Writing Blog
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49,224 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 16 27
HQ isn't going to go after individuals - they will ask Twitter to remove the twibbon from the twibbon app. They'll probably send a polite note to the person who created it, informing them that the logo and name are trademarked. Odds are, the creater didn't even know he or she was doing anything wrong. The MLs have been asked to request people in their region who are using the twibbon to stop using it, but we aren't going to kick you out of nano if you don't. No lawyers or biker gang thugs or anything like that will be going after a nano participant using the twibbon. Except maybe in my novel. :) Hmm, plot ninja....
Unforunately, even though it sometimes makes them look like big, uncaring bad guys, HQ has to take steps to protect its trademarks. If you own a trademark and don't do anything to keep people from making unauthorized use of it, you run the risk of your trademark becoming public domain, which dilutes its value and can cause confusion (especially if scam artists start using the logo on web sites that will 'publish' your novel for a fee, for example). People see the logo and think it's legit. Even when people with no ill intention use the logo without permission, not asking them to stop sets a precedent that others can point to when you ask them to stop using your trademark.
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
50,153 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 17 03
If you become a published writer - trademark is an issue. For example, you can't use the term "Kleenex" - have to use the word "tissue".
----------Untitled Script - Time Travel/Pirate Comedy
0 / 50,000
Okt 30, 2009 - 22 47
What a load of twaddle.
Of course you can use kleenex, ballpoint, liquid paper. Coca Cola. Nintendo DS Lite. Ford Falcon. Whatever you damn well please.
"She picked up her non-trademarked, imaginary handheld gaming system, eager to play a few rounds to take her mind off Logan."
You're not claiming ownership, you're mentioning a product. There's no trademark violation for that.
M.
49,224 / 50,000
Okt 31, 2009 - 08 51
The Publishing Law Center has an interesting article about when and how to use trademarks in a novel. I recommend you guys check it out:
http://www.publaw.com/fairusetrade.html
(Of course, this pertains to US Trademark law. Your mileage may vary in other countries.)
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
0 / 50,000
Okt 31, 2009 - 14 03
For the record, I don't think it's even Twitter themselves who have devised the Twibbon. It was a third party, who connected their App to Twitter. Though perhaps Twitter had to agree with them that they could connect there? I'm not sure how that works. And they may only have agreed that "twibbons" could be added to people's avatars, without knowing what the twibbons themselves would necessarily consist of.
So I don't think it was Twitter themselves who used the logo. It would be the people at the Twibbon.com site (or whatever their URL is) who the NaNo people would actually have to talk to.
----------Kleptomaniac of Shiny Ideas
6,187 / 50,000
Okt 31, 2009 - 14 17
I have removed the twibbon from my avatar pic but I have a suggestion for OLL, perhaps you guys could devise and official twibbon for Twitter? That way no trademarks are in violation and it gives publicity for NaNoWriMo. Just a thought.......
49,224 / 50,000
Okt 31, 2009 - 14 48
That idea has been floated. Right now, HQ is too busy with launch stuff to create one, but they might once things calm down.
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
32,579 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 05 30
Why don't they just bless one of them? It's a good idea, and going after them for copyright is petty and pointless. It's not as if they're trying to be the new nanowrimo.org, they're just providing free advertising.
0 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 05 42
I think the best way for them to get action on the twibbon is to email support@twibbon.com as they are a third party not connected to twitter. If the managers at HQ feel so strongly about the alleged copyright infringement there are a range of options open to them, including deleting the twibbons but the more attractive opton would be to follow the example of other charities such as 'Help for heroes' who had their massive twibbon taken over by an 'official account'.
Either way the quickest way for the team to sort it out is to get directly in touch with twibbon!
44,590 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 05 44
It would be great to have an official twibbon AND an official statement on the home page or in the next email. Frankly speaking, it's annoying to get tagged on twitter by some random people for using it.
26,070 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 07 42
I'm using it, and I welcome any lawsuit. How unbelievably against the spirit of NaNoWriMo.
----------Andrew Dobbs
http://www.twitter.com/adobbs
37,000 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 09 11
I don't understand why people are so upset. NaNoWriMo isn't a "cause" that needs people to stand up! for it, like a society for spaying stray cats, or a disease that needs curing. They offer a variety of badges for us to use in a variety of places, but let's face it; we use them to show off, not to plead for attention to this organization, and that twibbon is being used for the exact same reason: communal vanity.
----------liliales
49,224 / 50,000
Nov 1, 2009 - 10 51
It appears I need to reiterate a couple of points based on the comments I'm seeing.
1) Nanowrimo is NOT going to go after individuals using the twibbon. HQ will be contacting the twibbon creator(s) and ask them to remove the twibbon. There are no NaNo 'police' running around noting which users have the twibbon and which don't.
2) NaNoWriMo HAS to protect their trademarks. If you have a trademark and you don't protect it, it becomes public domain. This is why Disney gets in the news every once in a while for going after a mom-and-pop day care center that uses unlicensed images of Mickey Mouse in their ads. Does Disney enjoy being portrayed as a heartless goliath when they do this? No. But if they don't, Mickey Mouse becomes public domain and ANYONE can use it. That's the way trademark works in this country. If you don't protect it, you set a precedent that allows anyone and everyone to use it. Chris Baty and the others at HQ have put in a lot of blood, sweat, and money (yes, their money, not just donations) to make NaNoWriMo what it is today, to give meaning to those trademarks. They have a right AND A RESPONSIBILITY to protect that.
3) We have requested a public statement from HQ on the trademark matter. They are really busy right now trying to make sure the web site stays up during the heavy load that always occurs at the start of November. Hopefully they'll have something out in the next week or so.
Finally, I'm locking this thread. I think everything that needs to be said has been said.
----------idunno, co-ML for California :: South Bay
2009 Novel: The Stephen Hawking Detective Agency
