OK, so my novel is set in medieval times so the social rules are very different. I have two young people in love who really want to get married, but he is poorer than her so her father will not agree to it. The plot requires that he never agree, so there really is nothing they can do [I feel kinda mean now! Cruel author!]. But the guy has got this idea that maybe if they were caught doing the dirty her father would have to give in as nobody else would marry her then. Of course, they would risk him just sending her off to a nunnery. What I know and they don't is that even this will not change his mind, in fact he will have her immediately married to another man, so if she had fallen pregnant the child would not be known as a bastard. Several years later this husband will die and she will go and find her first love and marry him then. So the overall plot is not changed by what they decide.
So the question is, make the story juicy by having illicit sex and the conception of a bastard child [I'm not going to describe the sex!] or have my characters do the right thing and be boring prissy goody two shoes types? Obviously if they do the wrong thing they will suffer the consequences and feel guilt and moral angst and do a lot of repenting. Morality will be upheld as doing the wrong thing did not get them their way and gets no reward, sometimes a negative example is as useful as a positive one. If they do the right thing and still suffer separation for years then at least they will get their eventual reward of being reunited. Of course they get that anyway, but that can be a reward for all the repenting. The two Christian friends I have asked so far both say the story is more interesting with the naughtiness. What do you guys think? I need to decide today! Their discussion is the next scene and I can't put it off any longer! Although I can always write a chapter from later in the novel, but I'd rather just keep going chronologically.
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Yes the pic is a stavechurch, in case anyone wondered!
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Nov 8, 2009 - 04 34
If there's anything I can't stand, it's Christian novels where nobody ever does anything wrong. I do like it with the sex - especially if it's because they think it will make a difference and it doesn't, because that seems to be the way we approach things, doesn't it? We think, "well this sin (whichever one it is) is bad but considering the circumstances it could actually be good because of blah blah blah" and we try to reason our way out of it. But it never turns out to be a good thing - that is, it never turns out to be the good thing we wanted. God always has a way of turning things around for good, but not in ways we expect. I feel like I'm preaching. I'll stop.
----------2008 - Finding the Words (epic fail)
2009 - Doxology (I can do this!)
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Nov 8, 2009 - 04 46
Thanks, that's so helpful and quite a relief! I am decided then, they have to do the naughty! And I didn't feel like you were preaching, I found that a very helpful motivation summary. Now I'm not stuck any more! Woot! Word count set to increase...
----------Yes the pic is a stavechurch, in case anyone wondered!
13,212 / 50,000
Nov 8, 2009 - 04 56
Cool! Let me know how it goes - I'm interested now! :)
----------2008 - Finding the Words (epic fail)
2009 - Doxology (I can do this!)
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Nov 8, 2009 - 07 47
Yeah, I can't stand 'perfect Christians' in stories either. It's so [i]fake[/i].
I think it's okay as long as you don't describe it- you want to avoid leading your readers into temptation by putting sexual images in their head, because this rather defeats the purpose if you're intending to show that it's wrong.
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Nov 8, 2009 - 09 31
Yeah, I didn't describe it, just him persuading her, then some nasty sneaky gossipy character sees then under the blankets and locks them in the sauna [where they'd snuck off to, it seemed like a suitable little building on a medieval Norwegian farm which wouldn't be in use at mid-morning] then she goes off to tell on them. When they finish, the girl is very upset and feels horrible, she's crying and repentant. So I think it's dramatic, but not salacious and not the sort of thing likely to make anyone want to do it, but also not painful or anything that would put them off good marital sex either of course. Just the emotions of having done something bad.
----------Yes the pic is a stavechurch, in case anyone wondered!
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Nov 8, 2009 - 18 55
Boring prissy goody two shoes??
Let me ask you this: which plot line do you really think gives glory to God?
Or,
If Jesus was reading your novel (and He is), which one would you want Him to read?
5,117 / 50,000
Nov 9, 2009 - 00 00
The decision may not be from both of them.
They may have a hypothetical discussion, I would suggest initiated by the girl, of what would happen if they had a child,
- would daddy kill the boyfriend?
- Would daddy let them marry?
- would the wedding with the mayor's son be stopped (they don't think about substitute mayor's brother, a widower)
- would daddy let them marry
- would daddy accept them coming home for special family days
If something unforeseen happened, would he wait for her?
The girl could seduce the boy easier than the boy could force the girl and still keep their relationship going
Eve was enticed to a view away from her Heavenly Father, and made the first move to "eat"
----------She then got Adam to go along with her "new diet and eat"
After that sin they covered, not their hands and mouths, but sexual organs showing that was the body parts used to sin.
43,113 / 50,000
Nov 9, 2009 - 02 55
Let me ask you this: which plot line do you really think gives glory to God?
Or,
If Jesus was reading your novel (and He is), which one would you want Him to read?
I'm sorry if my lack of careful phrasing offended you. I didn't mean that people who do the right thing are boring! Just that a story where nobody does anything wrong lacks drama. Which means nobody would read it. Their reasons were moral [they want to be married, not just cheat] but their actions were not. But their misdeed does not get them what they want, so the story does not glorify wrong-doing, more emphasising the reasons not to do the wrong thing.
I know Jesus is reading it. But God, the ultimate author of the Bible, did not usually have His 'characters' always do the right thing. People learn from negative examples. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The Bible is all about sin and redemption, if people never did the wrong thing, we'd still be in Eden [which would be much nicer! but there you go, God didn't want robots but real people who chose Him from their own free will] The only perfect character was Jesus, all the others were flawed, some more than others. Prostitutes [Rahab, Mary Magdalene] murderers [Moses] thieves [the one on the cross] to name a very few, not the 'whited sepulchres' who sinned in the secret places of their hearts but pretended to be all pure, these were the good guys in the Bible!
I was unsure about my decision to go with this, but I have given it a lot of thought, as well as advice and input from others, and I am happy with the decision to have them sin, suffer, repent and get their reward eventually. God is working things out for the best for them, as He does for us, even though it may not seem like it at the time. Ooops, that sounds like I think I'm God in their story! But I'm sure He is guiding me as I write [and will as I edit too, so my errors can be corrected I hope!]
----------Yes the pic is a stavechurch, in case anyone wondered!
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Nov 9, 2009 - 06 07
Somehow the evangelical church in the US has managed to equate "christian" with "safe for the whole family" -- there is even a chain of radio stations who use that as their slogan. But if you filmed the Bible, it would be hard to keep it from getting an "R."
I say, don't tame the truth.
----------2009 -- A Hero Over His Head
2008 -- {sat out}
2007 -- {sat out}
2006 -- Power in the Blood (won)
2005 -- CUL8R (lost)
2004 -- {sat out}
2003 -- Nowhere Man (won)
2002 -- Soulmates (won)
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Nov 9, 2009 - 06 29
There are several "Edgy" Christian novels on the markets these days. For example, DeeAnne Gist is considered to be an edgier writer than some. She has characters who are Christians but they are flawed and occasionally give in to the temptations of this world. Her books have lots of sexual tension and the men and women notice and appreciate the "physical" attributes of the opposite sex. But, while the tension, kissing, and longing is there, I've never read anything in Gist's novels that are too racy or descriptive. Also, even when her characters do have bad thoughts or make bad decisions, they always figure out that what God wants is for the best. A lesson is learned.
Catherine Marshall, the writer of CHRISTY had her heroine and Dr. MacNeil discussing mountain sex habits...a conversation that embarassed Christy Huddleston and amused the good Dr. But sex was second nature to mountain people who were born and raised in the same room as their active parents. To have excluded this information would have been unrealistic. And now, most people consider CHRISTY the standard Christian Romance Novel, the big one, the head hancho.
Some people don't want this. Some people want their Christian characters to be perfect in thought and action...even the married couples have children via the stork. Some folks just don't want to read about the very real physical desires that people have.
My advice to those people would be, "Don't read Song of Solomon then!"
Just don't go into unnecessary detail and make sure that your characters learn their lesson! Talk to God about your book, ask Him to convict you if you go too far. And then, when you are at peace with God you won't have to worry about defending your work to anyone else!
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Nov 9, 2009 - 21 21
There was a book published recently called "A Novel Idea: Best Advice on Writing Inspirational Fiction," containing egads of great advice from many leading Christian fiction authors. There's an article by Terri Blackstock, "Closing the Bedroom Door," where she discusses that in many novels that, rightfully so, want to confront real-world issues and behaviors, we can't pretend that everyone is a virgin when they marry and no one has ever made a mistake because they are Christian (let he who is without sin cast the first stone...). Granted, there are Christians who have evaded sexual sins, but there are others who haven't--their stories deserve telling and may, depending on your audience/message, reach your readers in a way that shows them that there is forgiveness available.
Blackstock also admonishes to keep an eye on how much you show--we readers can assume a sexual relationship without having underwear thrown at our heads. She includes excerpts that deal with both good and bad sexual encounters that are acceptable in Christian fiction. I'd really suggest that you read at least this article, although the entire book is fabulous.
I know that when I was in a dark place in my life, it wasn't the books showing me how "perfect" the Christian life can be, but rather books that showed me how others had gotten out (fiction and nonfiction) that really inspired me.
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Nov 10, 2009 - 04 26
The better-written one.
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Nov 10, 2009 - 05 54
Thanks to everyone's who's commented, I appreciate the advice, support and contributions. They will certainly learn their lesson, and also learn about forgiveness, so I do think it was the right way to go.
This book looks great! I just got given an Amazon voucher too, so I shall be sending off for that right away! Thanks.
----------Yes the pic is a stavechurch, in case anyone wondered!
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Nov 12, 2009 - 09 21
There was plenty of fooling around in the middle ages but the main difference is that it wasn't considered normal--- as in of course if they are 'in love' they will have sex. In the middle ages they would have considered other solutions--- such as both running off to the monastic life. Also, there would be very real concern that they would go to hell for their act. Remember that many people died very young back then, and that having intentionally committed a mortal sin, they would be in danger of hell fire until they confessed that sin--- and the absolution they got would only be good if they were going to quit committing the sin.
A Christian writer can have the story go both ways--- the way with the characters sinning will be a lot more work because you have to re-educate yourself out of the sexual attitudes of our own culture, in which anything's OK as long as there is a condom involved, and not have your characters act like they are from our culture.
Another aspect--- until VERY recently a guy would lose a lot of respect for a girl who 'went all the way' even if it's with him-- in the middle ages, I don't think a man could help showing that he thought a bit less of the woman, now that he'd slept with her, no matter what their reasons.
----------2009 - The Aether Key: Christian steampunk
2005 - Viridians: Alien invasion story (didn't win)
blog: http://linalamont.blogspot.com
facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/nissa.amas.katoj?ref=profile
occupation: crazy cat lady
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03 47
Also keep in mind that in medieval times and even in 1800s U.S.A., the vigilante punishment inflicted on a man deemed to have seduced a virgin could be quite severe.
For example, in the middle ages the scholar Abelard (a famous philosopher of his day and even now) fell in love with a young sexually developed woman he was tutoring. So they ran off together and were "naughty" as you put it. They were tracked down by the girl's family members, and they castrated Abelard. Then Abelard joined a monastery and Heloise was sent off to a convent, although they continued to write love letters afterwards.
For another example from the 19th century, without going into such detail, a young Mormon man on the east coast was likewise castrated by vigilantes after he eloped with a young woman. It was so traumatic for him he went insane. Keep in mind this didn't happen in the wild, wild west either (this was before the move to Utah).
This sort of vigilantism was a very real possibility throughout history, certainly including the middle ages.
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Nov 13, 2009 - 03 53
This thread seems particularly relevant to your question:
http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/node/3412350
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Nov 17, 2009 - 06 43
just wanted to add, my whole story (a CHRISTIAN one) revolves around premarital naughtiness-- and I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't feel like God was okay with it- in fact, it's a story I feel God has asked me to tell. If we ignore the very real frailties of our own human nature when we write Christian books, then we fail to speak the gospel, frankly. IMO. If I'm an "unbeliever" (I hate that term, but for simplicity's sake we'll use it) and I happen to pick up a novel that is Christian Fiction (very low crossover market so I'm randomly introduced to the book) and I read about people who don't sin (for the sake of not leading the reader into temptation by the mere mention of said sin) then what does that have to do with my life? and how am I suppose to imagine this God of grace and love and forgiveness and mercy ever giving a poo about me, because obviously God just takes care of those who do right...
anyhow... just wanted you to know- this is your story-- and if you remember it's God's story, too- and you get out of the way and just write what you feel led to write-- I don't think you can go wrong.
and...if anyone's looking for good christian lit that gets a little dark-- Nicole Baart's The Moment Between--- great read, definitely shines a light on Truth and still walks us through the valley with great prose...
but historically speaking-- check up on what the real situation was for those in that situation-- the threat of being murdered or even just the idea that I'd spend eternity in hell because I'd committed a mortal sin-- which would have been magnified in the mindset of the day-- well, it'll either add much more weight and tension because they did do it or it'll just be scaring the pants back on them.
I wish you much luck and pray you much clarity & many words!
----------LDWA
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I prefer to think of myself as pre-published. --t-shirt on cafepress :)